It looks like Redirect may become the new blue answer in Standard. If counters are being nerfed so hard then blue has incentive to play permanents and bait removal like Abrupt Decay maximizing on the shenanigans from changing targets. I've always had fun with that effect. I foresee Izzet getting an improved version since Swerve could be improved upon as well as Burning Vengeance being best in RU and needing a way to protect its namesake enchantment against uncounterable spells. Maybe swerve with a cantrip or loot 1 card?
Also, slightly unrelated: I smell a Quicken reprint in Return to Ravnica.
So, you want a 4-mana Plague Wind that triggers blink effects?
Gah not the point i was going for, if it were wwwuuu, that would have been fine too. I just think this print is bland. So i would have preferred a reprint. People will have to drop a bunch of money on a meh spell ( lack of imagination ) to have for standard play or just not have what is needed to function for certain decks. Sorry if the point was getting lost in the costing or even in the specific function that i threw out.
I would probably play Abrupt Decay even if it didn't have the can't be countered part.
At any rate, this cycle of "can't be countered" spells is making me suspicious there's a powerful counterspell afoot.
What could that then possibly be? "Counter target un-countarable spell?" ... No, to me this seems like an attempt to move competitive and casual play away from the whole idea of counter-magic, while still giving us the illusion that WotC hasn't abandoned it.
I'd also like to point out that these cards drastically change Modern and perhaps also in Legacy - decks will have to change.
agree on this....
But better to have uncounterable answers than threats.
exactly for what you say.
Unfortunately what i see is that as magic push this thing to make things uninteractive the more the game becomes matter of owning and drawing cards rather than playing a deck correctly.
P.S. for the control being hosed do not forget that it cost 1UWW that is quite a lot.
Don't worry, Magic has been "getting worse", "less fun" and "less interactive" since revised.
Probably due to all the "power creep" with WOTC printing cards better than Ancestral Recall, Black Lotus and [CARD]Underground Sea
[/CARD]
I personally don't see the problem with an uncountable wrath effect in the colour pair most commonly associated with control and counters. It's not like there isn't any answers to this, they just aren't as obvious as a counter.
What could that then possibly be? "Counter target un-countarable spell?" ... No, to me this seems like an attempt to move competitive and casual play away from the whole idea of counter-magic, while still giving us the illusion that WotC hasn't abandoned it.
I'd also like to point out that these cards drastically change Modern and perhaps also in Legacy - decks will have to change.
no... that's wizard attempt to keep blue mages away from Counterspell things
Anyone want to comment on the Modern implications of the two can't be countered spells? Seems like Abrupt Decay is well placed to be a maindeckable card that happens to answer splinter twin completely. Supreme verdict is the type of thing that was missing from solar flare like control viable, as Wrath/Day of Judgement were dead against merfolk and UWR tempo.
Gah not the point i was going for, if it were wwwuuu, that would have been fine too. I just think this print is bland. So i would have preferred a reprint. People will have to drop a bunch of money on a meh spell ( lack of imagination ) to have for standard play or just not have what is needed to function for certain decks. Sorry if the point was getting lost in the costing or even in the specific function that i threw out.
Nah, don't worry, I agree. 4-mana wrath spells are pretty boring, so I think this was simply a bone to white control players who also play blue.
"Hey, as a reward for having blue in your mana base, your wrath gets to be uncounterable!"
Uncounterable threats are one thin- you must just answer them another way- but uncounterable answers is just plain degenerate. It just takes the facet of the game thats supposed to be so dynamic, and makes it uninteractive. From hexproof to cave of manaleakdeath to uncounterable sweepers, this game is rapidly becoming a damage race solitaire.
There is an inherent contradiction here.
Sweepers are not the tools of a damage race deck; you're automatically giving up the race when you tap 4 to play a sweeper and blow up the board to start again. Sweepers are the tool of slower decks so that they can stop the damage race. Like control decks.
It's really interesting how some "control players" reacted in this thread. The scare quotes are because apparently those players can't think of any other form of control except "counter everything". When they are told that there are other forms of control which do not necessarily rely on blue and on countering everything, they complain that removal can't handle everything absolutely at all times. It's really weird to see people complain that everything sucks because they can't beat everything.
What's more is how so many people can miss the fact that these "can't be countered" spells help control much more than it helps. I just hope it actually shows those people that they can play control without blue and without counterspells.
which is mentioned before, how people react to the bunch of uncounterable was just like doomsday was coming
Sweepers are not the tools of a damage race deck; you're automatically giving up the race when you tap 4 to play a sweeper and blow up the board to start again. Sweepers are the tool of slower decks so that they can stop the damage race. Like control decks.
I think what he is getting at is this, as you remove the ways of dealing with certain targets (hexproof to a lesser extent but uncounterable in a huge way) you remove the decision making and start down a path of playing by yourself effectively...things you can't answer at all means you need to rush to kill the other player before they are dropped. People aren't going to carry the card nor mana needed to Faith's reward all the time, only answer at this hour i can think of to this new DoJ.
Less interactiveness means more something else and that is playing by yourself (solitaire).
I am not saying i agree or disagree with his point just trying to throw out what i believe he was getting at. Personally i am not too worried about this DoJ, it is just boring, I would however be worried if uncounterable becomes a large part of this block. Too early to tell on that though.
I've been saying FOR YEARS that 15-20% of all cards in any set should be uncounterable. I was hoping they would mostly be in Green, but all these other colours is fine too.
This is EXACTLY what WotC should be doing. This is EXCELLENT.
Sorry, complainers, but you're unfortunately very in the wrong.
I like Supream Verdict. I find it very flavorfull. The ability to not be countered and the flavor text to me matches really well. Not to mention if i want to make an esper colored EDH deck i would totally love to have everyone else have a ton of creaters and for me to topdeck this and say something cheassy like "The Judges Verdict is *Takes of glasses* Supream" "YEAHHHHH"
lol
Also i find Abrupt Decay to be outright brutal and i love it!!!!!
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Wield your heart, and the world will tremble!!!-Doran, the Siege Tower BWG
The effect could prove so discombobulating to combo players, in particularly, they may fizzle and run away screaming. "From that day the Curse of the Plateau was upon me, and I found every hand I ever pull from a combo deck is a mulligan."
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The effect could prove so discombobulating to combo players, in particularly, they may fizzle and run away screaming. "From that day the Curse of the Plateau was upon me, and I found every hand I ever pull from a combo deck is a mulligan."
Member of Anti-Blue Alliance (Just Say "Yes" to Spells!) Members: 8 known, add to your sig to join!
I personally don't see the problem with an uncountable wrath effect in the colour pair most commonly associated with control and counters. It's not like there isn't any answers to this, they just aren't as obvious as a counter.
I've been saying FOR YEARS that 15-20% of all cards in any set should be uncounterable. I was hoping they would mostly be in Green, but all these other colours is fine too.
This is EXACTLY what WotC should be doing. This is EXCELLENT.
Sorry, complainers, but you're unfortunately very in the wrong.
To your first passage all that would mean is that blue the color of counters would have to get more board controlling tools to combat that, and little in the end would change. It is easier imo, to not do something like that as it makes blue go from a certain architype into others which seems harder to balance.
As far as complainers being "very in the wrong", that is plain silly. They are whining and all the whining won't change anything right now. If you think whining in general is very in the wrong then fine. But their opinions aren't wrong, they are insignificant, unless there are enough of them to change the path of the next sets design or restrict the current cards. This is unlikely, and i am sure all those complaining about this will keep playing, so wotc will keep the status quo.
I am getting really tired of this can't be countered nonsense, and of utility removal spells being printed at rare. Dreadbore and the Decay should both have been uncommons, not rares. Wizards is pandering to noobs by making things uncounterable, and putting cards they need at rare in order to get them to buy packs.
All I know is, Counterspell better be in Ravnica. There is no way this is justified otherwise.
All I know is, Counterspell better be in Ravnica. There is no way this is justified otherwise.
I can't speak to counterspell i hope you are right, but i would appreciate a spell that does a "time lapse" effect instead, ya know change it up a little.
Like set aside/exile target instant or sorcery, its target if there is one remains the same, for X number of turns. Or maybe just one turn, perhaps pay more mana for more turns. Something a little different.
To your first passage all that would mean is that blue the color of counters would have to get more board controlling tools to combat that, and little in the end would change. It is easier imo, to not do something like that as it makes blue go from a certain architype into others which seems harder to balance.
As far as complainers being "very in the wrong", that is plain silly. They are whining and all the whining won't change anything right now. If you think whining in general is very in the wrong then fine. But their opinions aren't wrong, they are insignificant, unless there are enough of them to change the path of the next sets design or restrict the current cards. This is unlikely, and i am sure all those complaining about this will keep playing, so wotc will keep the status quo.
I think this is actually more of a nod towards the eternal formats as well as EDH. The reason blue is so powerful in legacy is because countermagic is one of the most universal disruption tools in the game, so if you remove a bit of that versatility in the form of uncounterable cards, you get to put some safety valves on the power level of countermagic.
It's actually a very smart way of keeping the delver tempo decks in check for modern and legacy. Abrupt decay is a maindeckable answer to literally every permanent in the RUG and UWR Delver lists in modern, and it goes a long way towards making RUG Delver players sweat in legacy. God, if RUG Delver can get hated on enough for blood moon to return to play in legacy, I'm gonna be a very happy man.
Hm, G+B destroy target Griselbrand... Thank you WOTC for finally giving me something worth playing with rather than giving all of the broken deck guy's all of the toys.
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Legacy Decks
~~~~~~~~~
Too many to list efficiently. Find me online with the same SN if you want to play, or message me here to set up a time to play.
Modern
~~~~~~~~~
Whatever pile of 75 I throw together the night before without testing. Usually: :symb::symu::symg:
Also, slightly unrelated: I smell a Quicken reprint in Return to Ravnica.
Gah not the point i was going for, if it were wwwuuu, that would have been fine too. I just think this print is bland. So i would have preferred a reprint. People will have to drop a bunch of money on a meh spell ( lack of imagination ) to have for standard play or just not have what is needed to function for certain decks. Sorry if the point was getting lost in the costing or even in the specific function that i threw out.
What could that then possibly be? "Counter target un-countarable spell?" ... No, to me this seems like an attempt to move competitive and casual play away from the whole idea of counter-magic, while still giving us the illusion that WotC hasn't abandoned it.
I'd also like to point out that these cards drastically change Modern and perhaps also in Legacy - decks will have to change.
Don't worry, Magic has been "getting worse", "less fun" and "less interactive" since revised.
Probably due to all the "power creep" with WOTC printing cards better than Ancestral Recall, Black Lotus and [CARD]Underground Sea
[/CARD]
I personally don't see the problem with an uncountable wrath effect in the colour pair most commonly associated with control and counters. It's not like there isn't any answers to this, they just aren't as obvious as a counter.
no... that's wizard attempt to keep blue mages away from Counterspell things
Nah, don't worry, I agree. 4-mana wrath spells are pretty boring, so I think this was simply a bone to white control players who also play blue.
"Hey, as a reward for having blue in your mana base, your wrath gets to be uncounterable!"
There is an inherent contradiction here.
Sweepers are not the tools of a damage race deck; you're automatically giving up the race when you tap 4 to play a sweeper and blow up the board to start again. Sweepers are the tool of slower decks so that they can stop the damage race. Like control decks.
Thanks to Rivenor of Miraculous Recovery Signatures!
which is mentioned before, how people react to the bunch of uncounterable was just like doomsday was coming
I think what he is getting at is this, as you remove the ways of dealing with certain targets (hexproof to a lesser extent but uncounterable in a huge way) you remove the decision making and start down a path of playing by yourself effectively...things you can't answer at all means you need to rush to kill the other player before they are dropped. People aren't going to carry the card nor mana needed to Faith's reward all the time, only answer at this hour i can think of to this new DoJ.
Less interactiveness means more something else and that is playing by yourself (solitaire).
I am not saying i agree or disagree with his point just trying to throw out what i believe he was getting at. Personally i am not too worried about this DoJ, it is just boring, I would however be worried if uncounterable becomes a large part of this block. Too early to tell on that though.
i think that the players that will have to play smart are the all-in aggro player with wrath, bonfire and two-mana almost-all removal around
"The problem isn't when Scissors says Rock is overpowered, it's when Paper says it is."
-Mark Rosewater
This is EXACTLY what WotC should be doing. This is EXCELLENT.
Sorry, complainers, but you're unfortunately very in the wrong.
lol
Also i find Abrupt Decay to be outright brutal and i love it!!!!!
BWG
Member of Anti-Blue Alliance (Just Say "Yes" to Spells!) Members: 8 known, add to your sig to join!
That would be interesting.
BWG
Member of Anti-Blue Alliance (Just Say "Yes" to Spells!) Members: 8 known, add to your sig to join!
Maybe we'll get a new card like Wrap in Vigor?
EDIT: Rootborn Defenses is just that card.
The flavor text annoys me though.
Hoping for a cure, or at least an outbreak.
Level 1 Judge (yay)
To your first passage all that would mean is that blue the color of counters would have to get more board controlling tools to combat that, and little in the end would change. It is easier imo, to not do something like that as it makes blue go from a certain architype into others which seems harder to balance.
As far as complainers being "very in the wrong", that is plain silly. They are whining and all the whining won't change anything right now. If you think whining in general is very in the wrong then fine. But their opinions aren't wrong, they are insignificant, unless there are enough of them to change the path of the next sets design or restrict the current cards. This is unlikely, and i am sure all those complaining about this will keep playing, so wotc will keep the status quo.
All I know is, Counterspell better be in Ravnica. There is no way this is justified otherwise.
I can't speak to counterspell i hope you are right, but i would appreciate a spell that does a "time lapse" effect instead, ya know change it up a little.
Like set aside/exile target instant or sorcery, its target if there is one remains the same, for X number of turns. Or maybe just one turn, perhaps pay more mana for more turns. Something a little different.
Basically Detain for spells
I think this is actually more of a nod towards the eternal formats as well as EDH. The reason blue is so powerful in legacy is because countermagic is one of the most universal disruption tools in the game, so if you remove a bit of that versatility in the form of uncounterable cards, you get to put some safety valves on the power level of countermagic.
It's actually a very smart way of keeping the delver tempo decks in check for modern and legacy. Abrupt decay is a maindeckable answer to literally every permanent in the RUG and UWR Delver lists in modern, and it goes a long way towards making RUG Delver players sweat in legacy. God, if RUG Delver can get hated on enough for blood moon to return to play in legacy, I'm gonna be a very happy man.
~~~~~~~~~
Too many to list efficiently. Find me online with the same SN if you want to play, or message me here to set up a time to play.
Modern
~~~~~~~~~
Whatever pile of 75 I throw together the night before without testing. Usually: :symb::symu::symg:
I donno, mana leaking or izzet charming you wrath with a delver in play is pretty big game.