As has been stated, this is a fairly underwhelming mechanic. I'm sure that there will be more complex cards at other rarities that gain abilities if they have a 1/+1 counter on them. But the mechanic itself is really, really narrow.
Putting a Regenerate ability on this guy seems really counter-intuitive though, as regeneration is such a defensive ability.
As has been stated, this is a fairly underwhelming mechanic. I'm sure that there will be more complex cards at other rarities that gain abilities if they have a 1/+1 counter on them. But the mechanic itself is really, really narrow.
Putting a Regenerate ability on this guy seems really counter-intuitive though, as regeneration is such a defensive ability.
I beg to differ, you swing in with a creature with Regen, opponent has to lose something to it or multiblock it, you regen, or you get a free hit on your opponent.
Ramping up a regen creature and throwing him against the foe repeatedly is always nice.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Proud Member of the "Help Fblthp Get Home in DGM" Society
I love the carnival flavor Rakdos seems to be embracing even more heavily this time round.
Thumbs up for the card. Modal cards ilke this always lead to great decision making. And a super simple and elegant execution of Rakdos Suicidal philosophy.
Also, looks like the nwo complexity points are being saved for Azorious.
I hope this is a thing, because it's pretty cool. How about 0, too? Is a free recurring 1/1 that can't block bananas? I don't think so.
It probably is, too many infinite sacrifice loops with blood artist.
I'm pretty sure there will be a creature like that though, wizard loves black creatures with unimpressive bodies who can't block that keep on comin' back.
@ Serpos - No. First of all Undying is such a sweet ability is so good that Butcher Ghoul is played in standard. Secondly Undying is clearly more inherently powerful than "get a slight bonus and hope your opponent doesn't have a larger creature to COMPLETELY invalidate yours" or "play an inefficient creature that can block." Even if more powerful Unleash creatures are printed, and they will be, the fact remains that this is basically a self-griefer mechanic. Unless there are a plethora of ultra-efficient ways to get rid of the counters yourself (worth playing competitively) there's no reason you should sacrifice the flexibility of blocking/attacking. Sometimes a creature does nothing if it can't block.
Also your opponent can use Unleash against you. Say, for example, you play a guy without Unleashing so it can block. Your opponent untaps, casts Ajani, Caller of the Pride. You can't block, you lose. Or how about your opponent bashing you with your blocker and then make it unable to block with Mark of Mutiny. Unleash is simply terrible. I could see a little Unleash working with a mono-red 1 or 2 drop but not anything else really.
If the first card you saw with Undying was Evernight Shade or Butcher Ghoul instead of Strangleroot Geist, I'm willing to bet most people here would have thought it was terrible too. Same with Allies and Bojuka Brigand or Highland Berserker. People here need to stop thinking they have Ph.D.s in game design because they made a Shock variant on the forums. The mechanic is good.
I'm pretty sure anyone who plays a moderate amount of magic new that undying was good. I feel like previewing a 1/1 for six with undying would just make me think. "oh sick they are just making a better version of persist. I can't wait to see the good cards." that is my basic thought with this one as well however it is not as obvious with this mechanic how to make it good. At least with undying your terrible creature a possible two for one.
Edit - someone beat me to this.
I also doubt there would be a 0 cost 0/0 with unleash that can be played from your yard. You can just choose not to u leash the creature and it dies to state based effects. Infinite storm, infinited EtB triggers, infinite dies trigger for 0 mana...
It probably is, too many infinite sacrifice loops with blood artist.
I'm pretty sure there will be a creature like that though, wizard loves black creatures with unimpressive bodies who can't block that keep on comin' back.
Well, yeah. Any sacrifice outlet becomes insanely easy to go infinite with. Besides, it wouldn't have either of the correct colours.
Perhaps a psuedo-0, then. Pay 1 life? Sacrifice a land/creature/permanent and only at sorcery speed? It just seems like such a potentially fun use of the mechanic that I think it just might be a thing.
EDIT: It could be, "You may play ~ from the graveyard. If you do, put a +1/+1 counter on it." Just as good as a creature, without the infinite shenanigans.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Standard Cheapskate Extraordinaire!
In Progress:
Nothing - Sold it all!
Planning to Return to Ravnica.
I'm pretty sure anyone who plays a moderate amount of magic new that undying was good. I feel like previewing a 1/1 for six with undying would just make me think. "oh sick they are just making a better version of persist. I can't wait to see the good cards." that is my basic thought with this one as well however it is not as obvious with this mechanic how to make it good. At least with undying your terrible creature a possible two for one.
Nope, they didn't. The same thing happened with undying and allies and tarmo and jtms. Even delver had it, though less than some.
I guess OP wants it to be 'keyworded' like "dies" was. What word would you replace ETB with though?
When Aegis Angel is born?
When Huntmaster of the Fells arrives?
When Kitchen Sphinx lands?
When Faerie Imposter busts in?
When Dread Cacodemon pops in?
When Malfegor shows up?
@ Serpos - No. First of all Undying is such a sweet ability is so good that Butcher Ghoul is played in standard. Secondly Undying is clearly more inherently powerful than "get a slight bonus and hope your opponent doesn't have a larger creature to COMPLETELY invalidate yours" or "play an inefficient creature that can block." Even if more powerful Unleash creatures are printed, and they will be, the fact remains that this is basically a self-griefer mechanic. Unless there are a plethora of ultra-efficient ways to get rid of the counters yourself (worth playing competitively) there's no reason you should sacrifice the flexibility of blocking/attacking. Sometimes a creature does nothing if it can't block.
Also your opponent can use Unleash against you. Say, for example, you play a guy without Unleashing so it can block. Your opponent untaps, casts Ajani, Caller of the Pride. You can't block, you lose. Or how about your opponent bashing you with your blocker and then make it unable to block with Mark of Mutiny. Unleash is simply terrible. I could see a little Unleash working with a mono-red 1 or 2 drop but not anything else really.
So you're basically saying the keyword is bad because it has a pretty harsh drawback, right? I'm pretty sure you can design around drawbacks.
I'd rather have something like Unleashed 1 or something that gives you a set amount of counters rather than a single +1/+1 counter. I'll have to see other cards with it to fully judge.
Also your opponent can use Unleash against you. Say, for example, you play a guy without Unleashing so it can block. Your opponent untaps, casts Ajani, Caller of the Pride. You can't block, you lose. Or how about your opponent bashing you with your blocker and then make it unable to block with Mark of Mutiny. Unleash is simply terrible. I could see a little Unleash working with a mono-red 1 or 2 drop but not anything else really.
A deck that wants to use Unleashed cards shouldn't be concerning itself with blocking anyways, it should be a balls-to-the-wall aggro deck that tries to be as fast as possible. If a deck like that has to resort to blocking it's usually going to lose that game. You also listed a narrow sideboard card as a reason why this ability is "bad" which I find pretty hilarious. If someone wants to board in their Mark of Mutinies to stop unleashed creatures from blocking they're doing something wrong considering a deck playing unleashed creatures should be unleashing them the majority of the time anyways.
Whether Unleash sees play or not mostly depends on whether they make an aggressively costed Unleash creature with good stats. It could very well be like Bloodthirst where only one or two of the cards are good enough to see constructed play while the rest are limited fodder but if the mechanic plays well in RTR limited and even just one card makes an impact on constructed I think the mechanic can be considered a success.
There are plenty of ways that this could be an interesting mechanic.
It's not interesting on this card, sure, but Undying isn't interesting on Butcher Ghoul, either.
A clause along the lines of "If (creature name) has a P/T of X or higher, it gains X ability." could make for an interesting card.
Um not only does Undying have more utility in combat, it lets you work with sacrifice effects and board sweepers much differently. Undying is way more interesting and creative, and not by a small amount. (remove counter to "go infinite" etc) You can do a lot more with an Undying creature than one that either can or can't block. This mechanic equates to: give up the flexibility of blocking, something that almost all creatures do, or get an underwhelming guy (no counter).
@Dromar- the fact is that you give your opponent more control of the situation. Either by giving your guys counters or by PLANNING AROUND whether your creatures can block or not. It's not rocket science. It's basically a griefer mechanic: get a guy who can't block or get an under-the-curve creature. And what happens when you Unleash a creature and your opponent drops a guy who is slightly bigger than the Unleashed guy? Your creature is virtually useless. Unleash is a drawback, again, unless it's a one or maybe two mana red creature. Even then, as someone who has played plenty of red, I can say that many occasions arose where I blocked with a guy to prevent lethal and then Brimstone VolleyEd my opp to deck or pulled a burn spell off the top FTW.
I know I've made multiple posts, but I'm pissed! Plus I'm Rakdos aligned personality wise, lol. Gimme gimme gimme something better WotC!!!!!!
I beg to differ, you swing in with a creature with Regen, opponent has to lose something to it or multiblock it, you regen, or you get a free hit on your opponent.
Ramping up a regen creature and throwing him against the foe repeatedly is always nice.
Right. Your opponent is definitely going have to block your 2/2 with multiple guys.
I guess OP wants it to be 'keyworded' like "dies" was. What word would you replace ETB with though?
When Aegis Angel is born?
When Huntmaster of the Fells arrives?
When Kitchen Sphinx lands?
When Faerie Imposter busts in?
When Dread Cacodemon pops in?
When Malfegor shows up?
Don't mind me, just iterating though the different languages
kr, ja, ru, es, pt:
it, fr, cn trad, cn simp:
I like how the pun got translated literally across the other languages and now I notice that the Copyright line on the italian one is different
Also I'd like to point out that the French version translates to "Sinister Handyman".
This is a neat mechanic for an aggro guild, which fits. My only wish is that it was templated as "Unleash X" where the number determined the number of 1/1 counters. Adding a number to the template would allow for some big demon with "Unleash 3" at mythic, or something along those lines. Trading the ability to block for a power boost is cool, I just with they'd made it a tiny bit less narrow. Even if only one or two cards took advantage of using a number greater than one, it seems like it would be better to me. Thoughts?
Still too easy to create a two-card infinite loop. Most of your ideas here have any opponent dead on board to your card and Blood Artist on turn two. Basically, Wizards have wised up to creating cards that allow infinite loops without a lot of other cards or high mana costs being involved. Your card would be one of the most broken cards ever printed
Yup, which is why I was just spitballing. Requiring it to ETB from the graveyard with a +1/+1 counter fixes that problem and is the only way I can see it happening. Go ahead and crush my dreams this time!
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Standard Cheapskate Extraordinaire!
In Progress:
Nothing - Sold it all!
Planning to Return to Ravnica.
I can think of at least twocards that didn't care about blocking. That just swung swung swung! And they did alright in their respective blocks.
This guys has options and perhaps that's why some hate em(?). idk. I hear "He does two different things badly! I want him to do both things awesomely!"
I don't know about you guys, but I LOVE making assumptions about the new mechanics based on only 1 card of each. I hate them all, and this new set sucks.
Let's dissect them.
-Unleash, Terrible terrible mechanic, RB always sucks and will continue to suck, I mean what aggro deck would dare want to take a stronger creature instantly for a defensive drawback?
-Populate, How some divine being with mercy could ever let this POS of a mechanic slip by is beyond me, duplicating 1/1's (and only 1/1's, everyone knows there's no such thing as bigger tokens) is worthless, especially for a guild dedicated to tokens.
-Overload, Obviously just Kicker, you know, because Kicker wasn't literally 99% of mechanics wrapped into one.
-Scavenge, who in their right mind would pay 6 mana for 5 +1/+1 counters? Especially when you have to exile a creature from your graveyard to do it.
Do I have to say this is sarcasm?
Man this set is gonna suck! You said it brotha!
/sarcasm
Putting a Regenerate ability on this guy seems really counter-intuitive though, as regeneration is such a defensive ability.
I beg to differ, you swing in with a creature with Regen, opponent has to lose something to it or multiblock it, you regen, or you get a free hit on your opponent.
Ramping up a regen creature and throwing him against the foe repeatedly is always nice.
RRR Khorenthos - The Red Block (Feedback needed!) RRR
I hope this is a thing, because it's pretty cool. How about 0, too? Is a free recurring 1/1 that can't block bananas? I don't think so.
Standard Cheapskate Extraordinaire!
In Progress:
Nothing - Sold it all!
Planning to Return to Ravnica.
Miracle
Two-faced cards were fairly popular.
Undying
Infect
Landfall
Allies
Quests
Multi-kicker
Unearth
Colored Artifacts
Devour
and that's just off the top of my head.
---
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
Thumbs up for the card. Modal cards ilke this always lead to great decision making. And a super simple and elegant execution of Rakdos Suicidal philosophy.
Also, looks like the nwo complexity points are being saved for Azorious.
Visual Spoiler by Cycle GW The Art of Return to Ravnica
It probably is, too many infinite sacrifice loops with blood artist.
I'm pretty sure there will be a creature like that though, wizard loves black creatures with unimpressive bodies who can't block that keep on comin' back.
Also your opponent can use Unleash against you. Say, for example, you play a guy without Unleashing so it can block. Your opponent untaps, casts Ajani, Caller of the Pride. You can't block, you lose. Or how about your opponent bashing you with your blocker and then make it unable to block with Mark of Mutiny. Unleash is simply terrible. I could see a little Unleash working with a mono-red 1 or 2 drop but not anything else really.
I'm pretty sure anyone who plays a moderate amount of magic new that undying was good. I feel like previewing a 1/1 for six with undying would just make me think. "oh sick they are just making a better version of persist. I can't wait to see the good cards." that is my basic thought with this one as well however it is not as obvious with this mechanic how to make it good. At least with undying your terrible creature a possible two for one.
Edit - someone beat me to this.
I also doubt there would be a 0 cost 0/0 with unleash that can be played from your yard. You can just choose not to u leash the creature and it dies to state based effects. Infinite storm, infinited EtB triggers, infinite dies trigger for 0 mana...
It's not interesting on this card, sure, but Undying isn't interesting on Butcher Ghoul, either.
A clause along the lines of "If (creature name) has a P/T of X or higher, it gains X ability." could make for an interesting card.
Both ideas have potential. I'm excited to see where these go.
I'm going WUBRG.
Perhaps a psuedo-0, then. Pay 1 life? Sacrifice a land/creature/permanent and only at sorcery speed? It just seems like such a potentially fun use of the mechanic that I think it just might be a thing.
EDIT: It could be, "You may play ~ from the graveyard. If you do, put a +1/+1 counter on it." Just as good as a creature, without the infinite shenanigans.
Standard Cheapskate Extraordinaire!
In Progress:
Nothing - Sold it all!
Planning to Return to Ravnica.
Nope, they didn't. The same thing happened with undying and allies and tarmo and jtms. Even delver had it, though less than some.
So you're basically saying the keyword is bad because it has a pretty harsh drawback, right? I'm pretty sure you can design around drawbacks.
You can find me on MTGO. My username is gereffi.
I'd rather have something like Unleashed 1 or something that gives you a set amount of counters rather than a single +1/+1 counter. I'll have to see other cards with it to fully judge.
RGGruul Aggro
WSoul Sisters
WBTokens
BUGRRestore Balance
BMono-Black Infect
EDH:
RGWMayael, the Anima
GWURoon of the Hidden Realm
BDrana, Kalastria Bloodchief
A deck that wants to use Unleashed cards shouldn't be concerning itself with blocking anyways, it should be a balls-to-the-wall aggro deck that tries to be as fast as possible. If a deck like that has to resort to blocking it's usually going to lose that game. You also listed a narrow sideboard card as a reason why this ability is "bad" which I find pretty hilarious. If someone wants to board in their Mark of Mutinies to stop unleashed creatures from blocking they're doing something wrong considering a deck playing unleashed creatures should be unleashing them the majority of the time anyways.
Whether Unleash sees play or not mostly depends on whether they make an aggressively costed Unleash creature with good stats. It could very well be like Bloodthirst where only one or two of the cards are good enough to see constructed play while the rest are limited fodder but if the mechanic plays well in RTR limited and even just one card makes an impact on constructed I think the mechanic can be considered a success.
Um not only does Undying have more utility in combat, it lets you work with sacrifice effects and board sweepers much differently. Undying is way more interesting and creative, and not by a small amount. (remove counter to "go infinite" etc) You can do a lot more with an Undying creature than one that either can or can't block. This mechanic equates to: give up the flexibility of blocking, something that almost all creatures do, or get an underwhelming guy (no counter).
@Dromar- the fact is that you give your opponent more control of the situation. Either by giving your guys counters or by PLANNING AROUND whether your creatures can block or not. It's not rocket science. It's basically a griefer mechanic: get a guy who can't block or get an under-the-curve creature. And what happens when you Unleash a creature and your opponent drops a guy who is slightly bigger than the Unleashed guy? Your creature is virtually useless. Unleash is a drawback, again, unless it's a one or maybe two mana red creature. Even then, as someone who has played plenty of red, I can say that many occasions arose where I blocked with a guy to prevent lethal and then Brimstone VolleyEd my opp to deck or pulled a burn spell off the top FTW.
I know I've made multiple posts, but I'm pissed! Plus I'm Rakdos aligned personality wise, lol. Gimme gimme gimme something better WotC!!!!!!
Right. Your opponent is definitely going have to block your 2/2 with multiple guys.
....
Also, where is Butcher Ghoul played in Standard?
cascade
level up was very popular and people wanted more
umm...so yeah, a bunch.
kr, ja, ru, es, pt:
it, fr, cn trad, cn simp:
I like how the pun got translated literally across the other languages
and now I notice that the Copyright line on the italian one is different
Also I'd like to point out that the French version translates to "Sinister Handyman".
Yup, which is why I was just spitballing. Requiring it to ETB from the graveyard with a +1/+1 counter fixes that problem and is the only way I can see it happening. Go ahead and crush my dreams this time!
Standard Cheapskate Extraordinaire!
In Progress:
Nothing - Sold it all!
Planning to Return to Ravnica.
This guys has options and perhaps that's why some hate em(?). idk. I hear "He does two different things badly! I want him to do both things awesomely!"
Man this set is gonna suck! You said it brotha!
/sarcasm
Executive Infiltrator of [House Dimir].
My Trade Thread
Current EDH Decks
Braids
Wrexial
Bruna
Marath
Vorel
Tariel WIP