I have to agree with Toshimo here in that, while we may see some interesting applications of Unleash, it is as a whole a horrible, atrocious use of design space that could be done in a much better form. Kind of like the rest of the previewed mechanics.
The difference I see between RAV and RTR is that the mechanics in the former block are interesting and different. Forecast, Replicate, Dredge, Radiate, Transmute, etc. were all new, interesting mechanics that explored previously-untouched design space. That is not at all the case with the new mechanics.
I'm sorry but I'm really not seeing what's so horrible about Populate or Overload? They're both really solid mechanics.
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Keep reading on this very page (and most previous): it's been pointed out to death.
The thing is, this doesn't make the mechanic good. It makes the overall card good. Almost any mechanic can be made good by tacking extra words on the card.
Bad 3CMC card text: Banding.
Amazing 3CMC card text: Banding. Take an extra turn. Draw three cards.
That doesn't mean banding is great. This is what will happen with unleash. Unleash is meh. The stuff tacked on it will be good. The spoiled cards is a perfect example of this. Without the regeneration ability, the card would be very bad, something you'd feel bad to include as a 23rd card in a sealed deck. With regen, it becomes playable. It's playability has nothing to do with the mechanic. Yes, this is obviously always true of any mechanic: you can deisng good or horrible cards around it. In this case, the core mechanics is an innately boring skeleton to put meat around. (The fact that your opponent can screw you by putting +1/+1 on it is just anti-gravy).
Keyword doesn't exist outside of cards. You can't judge it by itself. The desing of keywords doesn't matter, because you don't play with then. It's the cards that matter, not a abstract text wall.
Unleash, like many other keywords, is another way to make "double cards". It's like kicker, except it cost the creature's ability to block instead of mana and it has a standard +1/+1 benefict. This is a interesting take if you ask me. It's like you're choosing the creature stance - defensive or offensive one in the moment you play it.
how are people saying this mechanic is more than bland...
this mechanic seems HORRIBLE. what kind of a mechanic is giving +1+1 and not being able to block anyways? thats not even a mechanic in my book. thats more of a cycle.
im not looking foward to a bunch of underwhelming creatures that become onpar with playable and SOME good creatures creatures if you use unleash.
i rather my cards be good from the start, without some gimmicky "mechanic", and i use the word mechanic VERY lightly in this case.
I don't think you can base your entire view of a mechanic off of one common, limited only, bear creature incarnation of it. If there are creatures with abilities depending on whether or not they have counters on them, that could be interesting, especially if there is a creature that has an activated or triggered ability for either having a counter or not having a counter. It could lead to a lot more versatile creatures in this currently creature based standard, and is far more interesting than the linear creature strategies currently available IMO.
As for the card itself, depending on how the limited environment turns out, yeah this guy could definitely see some play as either a regenerating aggro bear or a decent blocker for non tramplers.
Time will tell guys, don't be so quick to yell "OMG waste of design space!" Whatever that means...
I can see a few things happening. Mainly unleash being used as a switch for other abilities. Or effects triggering on unleashing a creature.
Examples:
1:Whenever you unleash a creature (or a possible wording using +1/+1 counters), ~ deals 1 damage to target player (or any other effect)
2: If ~ has a +1/+1 counter on it, it has haste. If ~ has no +1/+1 counters on it has deathtouch.
3: Whenever a creature you control enters the battlefield with a +1/+1 counter, put a +1/+1 counter on that creature.
Creatures you control with no +1/+1 counters on them gain
My wording may be a bit off, but i hope you get the gist of what I was aiming for. Using unleash a trigger, or having modes for leashed and unleashed creatures. Hopefully adding a little more dynamic to the mechanic through other cards rather than it being a complicated mechanic by itself. I could even see them printing a card along the lies of this:
Creature cards and creatures in play have Unleash. Creatures enter the battle field with a +1/+1 counter on them. (or "Enter the battlefield Unleashed", if that terminology would work)
A little messy, but the thought is that they word it in a way that creatures on both sides cant block and hit harder. Kinda like a "things hit harder" Bedlam that works with unleash triggers, assuming there are cards that care about that.
If you put a +1/+1 counter on it with say, increasing savagery, can it still not block? Does the reminder text still apply?
It's not so much the reminder text that applies so much as Unleash in general applying (reminder text is just that: it reminds you of the gist of the ability).
If it has Unleash, and it has a +1/+1 counter, it can't block. Period. It doesn't matter why the +1/+1 counter is there, be it from Unleash, Battlegrowth, something with Graft, etc.
I don't think you can base your entire view of a mechanic off of one common, limited only, bear creature incarnation of it. If there are creatures with abilities depending on whether or not they have counters on them, that could be interesting, especially if there is a creature that has an activated or triggered ability for either having a counter or not having a counter. It could lead to a lot more versatile creatures in this currently creature based standard, and is far more interesting than the linear creature strategies currently available IMO.
As for the card itself, depending on how the limited environment turns out, yeah this guy could definitely see some play as either a regenerating aggro bear or a decent blocker for non tramplers.
Time will tell guys, don't be so quick to yell "OMG waste of design space!" Whatever that means...
except you can.
this isnt unleash X with Hidden effect.
this is ALWAYS unleash 1 and your creature cant block.
that as a mechanic is horrible. i think the best way to judge a mechanic is to make blank/vanilla cards and put the mechanic on the card. just because a good card has a mechanic on it doesnt make the mechanic good.
unleash is never gonna be good unless the card its on is already good. if theres a card thats like 3/3 for 3 with haste and if you have a +1+1 counter destroy every creature your opponent controls when you attack, the card isnt good because of unleash. unleash as a mechanic is as garbage as they come, its not really even a mechanic
edit: by "the card isnt good because of unleash", i mean the card isnt good because unleash is a good mechanic.
Keyword doesn't exist outside of cards. You can't judge it by itself. The desing of keywords doesn't matter, because you don't play with then. It's the cards that matter, not a abstract text wall.
Unleash, like many other keywords, is another way to make "double cards". It's like kicker, except it cost the creature's ability to block instead of mana and it has a standard +1/+1 benefict. This is a interesting take if you ask me. It's like you're choosing the creature stance - defensive or offensive one.
I think comparing it to kicker is pretty apt. How come no one complained about kicker as a mechanic. Doesn't it generally say "pay this cost or this creature is a piece of garbage". That seems pretty lame and narrow to me. This is actually a better design than kicker because the mechanic does something by on it's own, while still having the bonus of being "kicked" with phrases like "if ~ EtB with a +1/+1 counter on it destroy target artifact."
that as a mechanic is horrible. i think the best way to judge a mechanic is to make blank/vanilla cards and put the mechanic on the card. just because a good card has a mechanic on it doesnt make the mechanic.
Here is a great reason to compare it to kicker. Kicker on a vanilla does nothing because kicker does nothing on its own. Add EtB triggers to the kicker and its good. Same with this ability but it has the added bonus of 1) being free to pay 2) giving the creature two different modes. Aggressive or defensive.
I think comparing it to kicker is pretty apt. How come no one complained about kicker as a mechanic. Doesn't it generally say "pay this cost or this creature is a piece of garbage". That seems pretty lame and narrow to me. This is actually a better design than kicker because the mechanic does something by on it's own, while still having the bonus of being "kicked" with phrases like "if ~ EtB with a +1/+1 counter on it destroy target artifact."
urzas rage, kavu titan,gatekeeper and im sure theres more arnt "garbage without kicker"
Unleash is a crap mechanic. So are pretty much all of the RtR mechanics. So were almost all the original Rav/Dis/GP mechanics.
Seriously, did people forget that outside of dredge, almost none of the guild mechanic cards saw serious constructed play. Gigadrowse, the hellbent Blaze, the radiance protection combat trick, the forcast thing to reanimate 1-drops, maybe a transmute or two. That was it. 1 card from a few guilds + dredge.
Unleash is pretty crap because the type of deck that will run these cards will almost always be aggressive to the point where including them makes you want to have them turned on 90%+ of the time. So they aren't really even a choice. It's like "Oh, that 1 time out of 20 that I need a chump blocker, I can use one."
Also, the odds of getting any card that grants Unleash are slim to none.
Unleash is actually 2 static abilities.
You may have ~this~ enter play with a +1/+1 counter.
and
While ~this~ has 1 or more +1/+1 counter, it may not block.
If you make a card with "All creatures have Unleash." or "All creatures with +1/+1 counters on them have Unleash.", then those are literally equivalent to "Creatures with +1/+1 counters on them cannot block." You are only addressing the second static ability.
If you go with the Bloodlord of Vasgoth template, it would be equivalent to "When you cast a creature, you may have it enter play with a +1/+1 counter.". That only addresses the first static ability.
To address both, you'd need something like "When you cast a creature, it gains Unleash. Creatures you control have Unleash." It's clunky as hell.
Actually, the rules allow the ability to be gained by the card and then stay with it as it enters the battlefield - the Bloodlord style template would actually prevent creatures from blocking also.
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urzas rage, kavu titan,gatekeeper and im sure theres more arnt "garbage without kicker"
2 of those are bears... I'm willing to bet we will see a bear with unleash. Urza's rage is pretty bad by today's standards even when kicked.
I get the impression that you didn't realy read my statement for what it's worth and your were more interested in be the "oh really what about this niche scenario" guy.
Edit - also 2 of those (which are garbage when kicked by todays standards) are rares. This is a common.
Well it could be theorized if you are stuck with two lands for say three more of your turns, Gatekeeper is garbage because you cannot "kick it".
In the same way that Unleash is great and all but only if your willing to understand the "agreement" and the drawback with it for the bonus.
When I think unleash I think of the most Paradoxial card when people complain about not being able to block.
Hyperactive Hound W(B/R)
Creature - Hound
Unleash, Vigilance
2/2 "Sometimes he makes a great guard dog from them Golgari thugs, other times he goes just goes bonkers after the Azorious Mailman."
-Lawyer for Rakdos and the Ghost Council
this is ALWAYS unleash 1 and your creature cant block.
that as a mechanic is horrible. i think the best way to judge a mechanic is to make blank/vanilla cards and put the mechanic on the card. just because a good card has a mechanic on it doesnt make the mechanic good.
unleash is never gonna be good unless the card its on is already good. if theres a card thats like 3/3 for 3 with haste and if you have a +1+1 counter destroy every creature your opponent controls when you attack, the card isnt good because of unleash. unleash as a mechanic is as garbage as they come, its not really even a mechanic
edit: by "the card isnt good because of unleash", i mean the card isnt good because unleash is a good mechanic.
Thats like the worst analysis method ever. You basicaly want all the card design being putted in the keyword. This is severely limiting thinking. Some keywords work that way, others are there just to make certain CARD DESIGN viable text wise.
The reason behind creature with unleash is: you may choose to make the creature a exclusive attacker in the moment you play it in order to make that creature better. Unleash is able to change any creature into a berserking one. Like mentioned above, unleash promotes in game choice between efficient attackers or blocker.
I'm sure alot of people would have better eyes for the keyword if it was worded differently (like Unleash - ~ put +1/+1 counter, Unleash - gain haste). If it was less narrow. I'm also sure the memory issue is why they didn't worded Unleash that way.If unleash only gave "intimadate" for exemple, how would you remember if you unleashed is or isn't on ?
+1/+1 counters is the mechanism the game have to make permanenet non-aura changes on creatures. This keyword will obviously be supported by cards with "[insert evergreen creature keyword] if it has +1/+1 counter on it" or creature with ability such as "T, remove a +1/+1 counter from: target layer discard a card".
Keywords do not work by thenselves. Thats not how things works.
This mechanic isn't exciting on its own (at least based on this card), but it has some interesting interactions with Scavenge, allowing you to use your scavenge creatures to remove your opponent's Unleash creatures as blockers (by putting +1/+1 counters on them). It'll make for a fun limited environment, I think.
Unleash is really not all that horrible.
Which would you rather have, Spineless Thug or this guy.
Which would you rather have, Ashenmoor Gouger or a 3 mana 3/3 Unleash??
Remember, one of blacks "mechanics" is just straight-up "cannot block".
At least this is an improvement to that.....
IMO this is one of the most fun mechanics so far...
Unlike the other 3 revealed so far which are 1 trick ponies...Unleash has the potential of being use in the most curious ways
As said before the Counter gaining effect is irrelevant and boring...but the things you may be enabled to do with it...Gosh so many things can be done with that.
A 1/1 Red Drop that gains haste if Unleashed
A pinger that can increase the Damage done/gain something like Deathtouch if the counter is spent
etc etc etc
Very very very insteresting mechanic to play around...
All the guild mechanics in this block are narrow on purpose, since each has so little room to work with. They're also kept very simple on purpose, because Sinker is going to have all ten keywords at once.
I am so disappointed in this mechanic. I was under the impression that the new rakdos mechanic would have synergy with hellbent. my hellbent, flashback, unearth deck needs some extra gas and this will not fit in regardless of how powerful any cards with this mechanic will be.
2 of those are bears... I'm willing to bet we will see a bear with unleash. Urza's rage is pretty bad by today's standards even when kicked.
I get the impression that you didn't realy read my statement for what it's worth and your were more interested in be the "oh really what about this niche scenario" guy.
Edit - also 2 of those (which are garbage when kicked by todays standards) are rares. This is a common.
of course theyre not good by todays standard, its called power creep. that doesnt diminish anything from the actual mechanic though.
Thats like the worst analysis method ever. You basicaly want all the card design being putted in the keyword. This is severely limiting thinking. Some keywords work that way, others are there just to make certain CARD DESIGN viable text wise.
The reason behind creature with unleash is: you may choose to make the creature a exclusive attacker in the moment you play it in order to make that creature better. Unleash is able to change any creature into a berserking one. Like mentioned above, unleash promotes in game choice between efficient attackers or blocker.
I'm sure alot of people would have better eyes for the keyword if it was worded differently (like Unleash - ~ put +1/+1 counter, Unleash - gain haste). If it was less narrow. I'm also sure the memory issue is why they didn't worded Unleash that way.If unleash only gave "intimadate" for exemple, how would you remember if you unleashed is or isn't on ?
+1/+1 counters is the mechanism the game have to make permanenet non-aura changes on creatures. This keyword will obviously be supported by cards with "[insert evergreen creature keyword] if it has +1/+1 counter on it" or creature with ability such as "T, remove a +1/+1 counter from: target layer discard a card".
Keywords do not work by thenselves. Thats not how things works.
GOOD keywords do work by themselves. which is my point. and to say thats wrong is just to argue for the sake of arguing.
Looking at any mechanic in a vacuum is a fools game. Morph is a great and flavorful mechanic. Is it being shown to it's full potential on Spined Basher? No, it really isn't.
Undying is a great and flavorful mechanic but in the end it's simple and completely dependent on the other abilities of the creature it's placed on. Every keyworded creature mechanic ever envisioned has to be judged on the individual cards it's placed on, not the mechanic itself.
If anything unleash is more interesting than undying, but undeniably less powerful, simply because it actually offers a choice to the player using the mechanic, and choices are almost never a bad thing in Magic.
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I am with the people that say this mechanic is somehow dull.
Pros:
I. It's simple - even a complete beginner can understand it. Normal version or buffed version that can't block.
II. It's flavourful - all in this mechanic says Rakdos. Hit them hard and kill them fast.
III. It allows for choice - thus increasing the weight of tactical thinking during game. A R 1/1 unleash, in its simplicity, is much more tactical that a Goblin Guide.
Cons:
I. As already said, it can only appear on creatures. This feels somewhat limiting.
II. Just like with hellbent, the advantage feels kind of low if compared to the disadvantage.
III. Seems hard to work with. Some creatures might have bonus effects if unleashed, but there's no marker between an unleashed creature and a creature with a +1/+1 counter on it. If synergistic cards work on creatures having counters... well, that feels more Simic than Rakdos.
In regards to your third point in the Con section. I assume that as long as a creature with unleash has a +1/+1 counter on it, it is "unleashed". The counter itself is the distinguishing factor.
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I'm sorry but I'm really not seeing what's so horrible about Populate or Overload? They're both really solid mechanics.
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Keyword doesn't exist outside of cards. You can't judge it by itself. The desing of keywords doesn't matter, because you don't play with then. It's the cards that matter, not a abstract text wall.
Unleash, like many other keywords, is another way to make "double cards". It's like kicker, except it cost the creature's ability to block instead of mana and it has a standard +1/+1 benefict. This is a interesting take if you ask me. It's like you're choosing the creature stance - defensive or offensive one in the moment you play it.
BGU Control
R Aggro
Standard - For Fun
BG Auras
this mechanic seems HORRIBLE. what kind of a mechanic is giving +1+1 and not being able to block anyways? thats not even a mechanic in my book. thats more of a cycle.
im not looking foward to a bunch of underwhelming creatures that become onpar with playable and SOME good creatures creatures if you use unleash.
i rather my cards be good from the start, without some gimmicky "mechanic", and i use the word mechanic VERY lightly in this case.
As for the card itself, depending on how the limited environment turns out, yeah this guy could definitely see some play as either a regenerating aggro bear or a decent blocker for non tramplers.
Time will tell guys, don't be so quick to yell "OMG waste of design space!" Whatever that means...
Standard
BR Zombies RB
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W Death and Taxes W
EDH
BUR Thraximundar, Stax is fun, DUR! RUB
GWB Doran, The Pimp Tower BWG
Examples:
1:Whenever you unleash a creature (or a possible wording using +1/+1 counters), ~ deals 1 damage to target player (or any other effect)
2: If ~ has a +1/+1 counter on it, it has haste. If ~ has no +1/+1 counters on it has deathtouch.
3: Whenever a creature you control enters the battlefield with a +1/+1 counter, put a +1/+1 counter on that creature.
Creatures you control with no +1/+1 counters on them gain
My wording may be a bit off, but i hope you get the gist of what I was aiming for. Using unleash a trigger, or having modes for leashed and unleashed creatures. Hopefully adding a little more dynamic to the mechanic through other cards rather than it being a complicated mechanic by itself. I could even see them printing a card along the lies of this:
Creature cards and creatures in play have Unleash. Creatures enter the battle field with a +1/+1 counter on them. (or "Enter the battlefield Unleashed", if that terminology would work)
A little messy, but the thought is that they word it in a way that creatures on both sides cant block and hit harder. Kinda like a "things hit harder" Bedlam that works with unleash triggers, assuming there are cards that care about that.
If it has Unleash, and it has a +1/+1 counter, it can't block. Period. It doesn't matter why the +1/+1 counter is there, be it from Unleash, Battlegrowth, something with Graft, etc.
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except you can.
this isnt unleash X with Hidden effect.
this is ALWAYS unleash 1 and your creature cant block.
that as a mechanic is horrible. i think the best way to judge a mechanic is to make blank/vanilla cards and put the mechanic on the card. just because a good card has a mechanic on it doesnt make the mechanic good.
unleash is never gonna be good unless the card its on is already good. if theres a card thats like 3/3 for 3 with haste and if you have a +1+1 counter destroy every creature your opponent controls when you attack, the card isnt good because of unleash. unleash as a mechanic is as garbage as they come, its not really even a mechanic
edit: by "the card isnt good because of unleash", i mean the card isnt good because unleash is a good mechanic.
I concur. I'm sure we'll see cards like that in the block.
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I think comparing it to kicker is pretty apt. How come no one complained about kicker as a mechanic. Doesn't it generally say "pay this cost or this creature is a piece of garbage". That seems pretty lame and narrow to me. This is actually a better design than kicker because the mechanic does something by on it's own, while still having the bonus of being "kicked" with phrases like "if ~ EtB with a +1/+1 counter on it destroy target artifact."
Edit -
Here is a great reason to compare it to kicker. Kicker on a vanilla does nothing because kicker does nothing on its own. Add EtB triggers to the kicker and its good. Same with this ability but it has the added bonus of 1) being free to pay 2) giving the creature two different modes. Aggressive or defensive.
urzas rage, kavu titan,gatekeeper and im sure theres more arnt "garbage without kicker"
Actually, the rules allow the ability to be gained by the card and then stay with it as it enters the battlefield - the Bloodlord style template would actually prevent creatures from blocking also.
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2 of those are bears... I'm willing to bet we will see a bear with unleash. Urza's rage is pretty bad by today's standards even when kicked.
I get the impression that you didn't realy read my statement for what it's worth and your were more interested in be the "oh really what about this niche scenario" guy.
Edit - also 2 of those (which are garbage when kicked by todays standards) are rares. This is a common.
In the same way that Unleash is great and all but only if your willing to understand the "agreement" and the drawback with it for the bonus.
When I think unleash I think of the most Paradoxial card when people complain about not being able to block.
Hyperactive Hound W(B/R)
Creature - Hound
Unleash, Vigilance
2/2
"Sometimes he makes a great guard dog from them Golgari thugs, other times he goes just goes bonkers after the Azorious Mailman."
-Lawyer for Rakdos and the Ghost Council
Thats like the worst analysis method ever. You basicaly want all the card design being putted in the keyword. This is severely limiting thinking. Some keywords work that way, others are there just to make certain CARD DESIGN viable text wise.
The reason behind creature with unleash is: you may choose to make the creature a exclusive attacker in the moment you play it in order to make that creature better. Unleash is able to change any creature into a berserking one. Like mentioned above, unleash promotes in game choice between efficient attackers or blocker.
I'm sure alot of people would have better eyes for the keyword if it was worded differently (like Unleash - ~ put +1/+1 counter, Unleash - gain haste). If it was less narrow. I'm also sure the memory issue is why they didn't worded Unleash that way.If unleash only gave "intimadate" for exemple, how would you remember if you unleashed is or isn't on ?
+1/+1 counters is the mechanism the game have to make permanenet non-aura changes on creatures. This keyword will obviously be supported by cards with "[insert evergreen creature keyword] if it has +1/+1 counter on it" or creature with ability such as "T, remove a +1/+1 counter from: target layer discard a card".
Keywords do not work by thenselves. Thats not how things works.
BGU Control
R Aggro
Standard - For Fun
BG Auras
Which would you rather have, Spineless Thug or this guy.
Which would you rather have, Ashenmoor Gouger or a 3 mana 3/3 Unleash??
Remember, one of blacks "mechanics" is just straight-up "cannot block".
At least this is an improvement to that.....
Unlike the other 3 revealed so far which are 1 trick ponies...Unleash has the potential of being use in the most curious ways
As said before the Counter gaining effect is irrelevant and boring...but the things you may be enabled to do with it...Gosh so many things can be done with that.
A 1/1 Red Drop that gains haste if Unleashed
A pinger that can increase the Damage done/gain something like Deathtouch if the counter is spent
etc etc etc
Very very very insteresting mechanic to play around...
All the guild mechanics in this block are narrow on purpose, since each has so little room to work with. They're also kept very simple on purpose, because Sinker is going to have all ten keywords at once.
R Citizen Cane (Feldon of the Third Path)
of course theyre not good by todays standard, its called power creep. that doesnt diminish anything from the actual mechanic though.
+1+1 and cant block as a mechanic is horrible.
GOOD keywords do work by themselves. which is my point. and to say thats wrong is just to argue for the sake of arguing.
Looking at any mechanic in a vacuum is a fools game. Morph is a great and flavorful mechanic. Is it being shown to it's full potential on Spined Basher? No, it really isn't.
Undying is a great and flavorful mechanic but in the end it's simple and completely dependent on the other abilities of the creature it's placed on. Every keyworded creature mechanic ever envisioned has to be judged on the individual cards it's placed on, not the mechanic itself.
If anything unleash is more interesting than undying, but undeniably less powerful, simply because it actually offers a choice to the player using the mechanic, and choices are almost never a bad thing in Magic.
In regards to your third point in the Con section. I assume that as long as a creature with unleash has a +1/+1 counter on it, it is "unleashed". The counter itself is the distinguishing factor.