Kind of really wish Rummaging Goblin was RR instead of 2R.
I also like how 7 card mill is now a 'common' rarity ordeal. Almost feel bad about grabbing those Glimpse the Unthinkable's a few years ago for my casual mill deck.
Nighthawk says no, if Nighthawk really is in M13 with Black Exalted I can see MBC as a big thing
Don't get my hopes up at the thought of MBC or Suicide Black becoming a T2 worthy archetype. My heart can't take the disappointment.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Brian Tinsman, Set Designer :?mana::snow::snow:
Legendary Creature – Human Designer (MR)
Brian Tinsman, Set Designer can only be cast during the third set of a block.
When Brian Tinsman, Set Designer enters the battlefield, ignore all flavor and mechanics of the first two sets in the block. "Ok so what do we have here... gothic horror? Scrap it. Expand the Devine Vs. Demonic duel deck to 244 cards and print it!"
2/2
The ole "dies to removal" argument huh. Brilliant.
It's not a combo dude. Sword and Phantasm are two independent spells both sharing synergy with a mill strategy. They just so happen to combine, and in doing so allow for a complete shift in winning strategy without diluting the deck one iota. It gives mill strategies a whole 'nother dynamic.
Kudos to the first one to try it and report comprehensive results.
And RTFC. Sword grants protection from black spot removal, so the Slip is on you.
Seriously guys. Your attitude towards new cards is stagnant.
Constructive assessment is welcomed and encouraged.
so slip actually does stop this because you slip in response to the equip, and your argument is bad because thet phantasm is not good without the sword, 1/1 for one IS NOT GOOD IN CONSTRUCTED!!!!! and sword my be a good card on its own, but then why run the phantasm? why not just run a better sword? also mill is not legitimate no matter how much you try, it does not have the support and if you try diluting it with bad agro cards then you are in for a beeting as playing your deck will not only be unnfun, but you will never win with it.
I think you mean going to the TWO threads its being discussed and educating people why it's bad.
Alrighty, thanks for giving us a free lesson and education on how bad and unplayable Phantasm and SoBM is. Like I mentioned, we shouldn't write these bunch of cards totally without brewing. Last I read, many posers still thinks Phantasm is promising.
If the store owner says that I can't trade in the premises, I'll just go outside. If he says that I can't trade within 10m of his premises, I'll go to 11 meters. If he says that he doesn't want to see me trading, I will put a basket over his head and continue trading.
Yes, he's a local legend. He's only known to take his clothes off before he goes into the Ladies' Lockerroom. Nobody knows what he does in there because he's invisible, but it's almost certainly tons of masturbating.
But if you're playing him late in a control deck, why not just play an actual good creature? Do you know how hard it is to get 10 cards into a GY? There's essentially 3 decks in Standard right now that have any chance of that happening before turn 10 or so. Control, Frites and Delver. And Delver decks remove cards from the GY just as fast as they fill them almost. Frites the 5/5 is outclassed too fast. That just leaves a control mirror, where he just might have some applications.
Against every other deck, just play a good creature on turn 10 with mana up to protect it.
Pardon, you're saying a 5/5 flier for U isn't a good creature, even if it has Serra Avenger type restrictions?
Now on a more serious note, let's look at a few things:
1.) The decks that exist in Standard now won't exist post rotation, and may not exist come M13. We may very well see graveyards filling up faster, or we may not.
2.) Why is Frites outclassing you if you're control? Cool, they play their big guy and you murder the big guy, you don't care about the tokens as you should Pyroclasm or have your own Lingering Souls.
3.) Playing a 5/5 flier for U late game is very different than playing a different threat late game. For the following sub reasons:
3a.) U is a much lesser mana commitment than UU, BB, WW, or whatever. This means you can focus more on decks that aren't necessarily blue when it comes to control, and Murder hints at this. Plus, Lingering Souls is a house.
3b.) Playing a spell and having a single counter up is ok, it means you survive one removal spell. But wait, you're control, have they really used their removal on your 1/1 tokens? Not very likely love, you're going to see them most likely have two removal spells for your creature and leaving 5+ mana up is more relevant than leaving up 2-3 mana up.
Let's face it, with Cavern of Souls around and a the absence of Mana Leak, we're going to see control move more towards a removal or tap out shell rather than a permission shell and in that case having up enough mana for one protection spell isn't going to be enough. And when I say protection spell, I don't exactly mean counters, because a Restoration Angel is pretty good too, but it does cost 4 mana.
3c.) This guy is still a 1/1 flier for U... Like sure, it sucks if you have to cast him in that form, but it's an option, and sometimes that's all it takes to get to your late game. Very few finishers read "U, Discard this Card: Put a 1/1 flying Illusion token into play" and in all honesty that's important in some games.
===============================================
So yea, I'm not going to sit here and say this card will be nuts, there's simply no indication of it, and it might easily be outclassed... However, I'm going to pick up my play set as it's only an uncommon, and I'm going to keep an eye out for it in terms of deck building. Then again I have an affinity for 5CC and a potential 5/5 flier for U goes well with a deck like that.
But if you're playing him late in a control deck, why not just play an actual good creature? Do you know how hard it is to get 10 cards into a GY? There's essentially 3 decks in Standard right now that have any chance of that happening before turn 10 or so. Control, Frites and Delver. And Delver decks remove cards from the GY just as fast as they fill them almost. Frites the 5/5 is outclassed too fast. That just leaves a control mirror, where he just might have some applications.
Against every other deck, just play a good creature on turn 10 with mana up to protect it.
So you're arguing only sideboarding it? I didn't know anybody was debating that.
But it's not just control mirrors it shines, it's pretty good in any slow game. It outclasses roughly everything in the air right now, and costs way less than any of it. Being able to spend 1 mana on a win condition and the rest of your mana on controlling the game is what makes an excellent control variant. I'm reminded of how detrimental Blade Splicer was to the control mirror. I'm also reminded of how ridiculous Serra Ascendant was in Soul Sisters, no matter what turn it was.
Lol, doh. In my defense, I've never played the card before [Appetite for Brains] as it seems pretty terrible in the current meta, so I completely forgot that it exiles.
You should give it a try, it's pretty fantastic SB material.
So you're arguing only sideboarding it? I didn't know anybody was debating that.
But it's not just control mirrors it shines, it's pretty good in any slow game. It outclasses roughly everything in the air right now, and costs way less than any of it. Being able to spend 1 mana on a win condition and the rest of your mana on controlling the game is what makes an excellent control variant. I'm reminded of how detrimental Blade Splicer was to the control mirror. I'm also reminded of how ridiculous Serra Ascendant was in Soul Sisters, no matter what turn it was.
No, I'm arguing that it's always bad under any circumstances. Against control decks or against Delver it is slightly less bad because they at least fill their graveyards a little faster.
Is it just me, or is everyone thinking Jace's Phantasm needs to be in a mill deck in order to make the most of its ability?
The Phantasm doesn't care about how the cards make it to the opponent's graveyard, as long as they do. That being said, the Phantasm makes a nice addition to U/B control decks, where one can run hand disruption, removal and countermagic in order to fill up the GY. Heck, it even has Nephalia's Drownyard to mill cards if need be.
The disappointment, obviously, is that the Phantasm is not going to be swinging for full power on turn 2. This is a fact. WotC knows better than to give us a 5/5 flying creature for with no drawbacks. Instead, one should be looking at its mid- and late-game value: it's a big finisher that can be cast with plenty of countermagic backup.
Jace's Phantasm is no Delver, but it isn't to be discarded as useless just yet.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The card nearly every spoiled Magic player dreams of:
Jace's Trolling ---
Instant
Split Second
Exile target spell, then return Jace's Trolling to its owner's hand.
"Yeah, sure... when pigs fly."
-Mark Rosewater about printing this card
And unlike Delver, if the Phantasm whiffs completely or gets played late on an empty board, it's still a flier. Being stuck with a Flying Men seems better than being stuck with a Merfolk of the Pearl Trident. It's still not as good as Delver, and I'm not even sure if it's playable, but the cheap evasion is kind of nice.
I agree. I see this as a shoe-in for a Dimir deck. If House Dimir in RTR block is aything like House Dimir in RAV block, they'll be masters of hand and library destruction while netting you extra cards in the process.
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
If the store owner says that I can't trade in the premises, I'll just go outside. If he says that I can't trade within 10m of his premises, I'll go to 11 meters. If he says that he doesn't want to see me trading, I will put a basket over his head and continue trading.
Yes, he's a local legend. He's only known to take his clothes off before he goes into the Ladies' Lockerroom. Nobody knows what he does in there because he's invisible, but it's almost certainly tons of masturbating.
Talarand's Invocation seems like a nice 4 drop, 4 flying power/toughness over 2 bodies and a sorcery for Delver seems above curve. Esper delver tokens could be quite strong with Favorable Winds or Intangible Virtue pumping your tokens. Talarand himself seem's like a lightning rod that usually wouldn't stay around long enough to be effective.
Just like to say this is the most retarded core set ive ever seen. i dont get the point of including all of the exalted cards. I have a friend with an exalted deck though so ive seen how strong ardent plea into jhessian inflatrator with rafiq and soverigns into transcription for about 18/18 unblockable double strike. I am overly happy though about nighthawk, nocturnus, captain of the watch, and murder. at first i though oh just a retarded removal spell thats over priced then i read "destroy target creature" no drawbacks so it is super playable not doomblade or go for the throat restrictions. Im interested to see how this will all play into ravnica though because of all the exalted mostly. Im also kinda hoping to see captivating vampire reprinted because then tribal vampires is super do-able with keeper to pump out tokens and ramp vaps up 1 then 2 after a few turns if not right when he hits then captivating vampire takes care of just about everything in the way.
Private Mod Note
():
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Sig by Rivenor at miraculous recovery and Avatar by Ace5301 at five handed lizard EDH
Ghave
Phelddagrif
Omnath
Because one person called it unplayable and everyone else had very little opinion at all? It elicited almost no reaction at all other than one person. Whereas Phantasm has a number of people saying it's terrible, and a number of people saying it needs testing. More likely scenario? It's terrible, which it is.
Jace SHOULD be unbanned in modern. I hate all the people saying "JACE IS BROKEN OHMYGOD HE'LL TAKE OVER AND CAWBLADE WILL REIGN SUPREME AGAIN" when bloodbraid elf literally comes down after jace and kicks jace right in the crotch, takes jace's lunch money, and jace is left to bleed out on the sidewalk in agonizing pain.
Because one person called it unplayable and everyone else had very little opinion at all? It elicited almost no reaction at all other than one person. Whereas Phantasm has a number of people saying it's terrible, and a number of people saying it needs testing. More likely scenario? It's terrible, which it is.
My point was more that the card was initially seen as either terrible, or a casual only card because it's not consistent enough and we know how that turned out. The phantasm might well be terrible, but we don't know how the metagame is going to shape up. You don't even need to be trying to mill, a deck making the opponent discard, using something like thought scour or even just casting removal/mass removal, is probably going to fill the opponents graveyard fairly quickly.
Lol, doh. In my defense, I've never played the card before as it seems pretty terrible in the current meta, so I completely forgot that it exiles.
I also like how 7 card mill is now a 'common' rarity ordeal. Almost feel bad about grabbing those Glimpse the Unthinkable's a few years ago for my casual mill deck.
Don't get my hopes up at the thought of MBC or Suicide Black becoming a T2 worthy archetype. My heart can't take the disappointment.
Legendary Creature – Human Designer (MR)
Brian Tinsman, Set Designer can only be cast during the third set of a block.
When Brian Tinsman, Set Designer enters the battlefield, ignore all flavor and mechanics of the first two sets in the block.
"Ok so what do we have here... gothic horror? Scrap it. Expand the Devine Vs. Demonic duel deck to 244 cards and print it!"
2/2
so slip actually does stop this because you slip in response to the equip, and your argument is bad because thet phantasm is not good without the sword, 1/1 for one IS NOT GOOD IN CONSTRUCTED!!!!! and sword my be a good card on its own, but then why run the phantasm? why not just run a better sword? also mill is not legitimate no matter how much you try, it does not have the support and if you try diluting it with bad agro cards then you are in for a beeting as playing your deck will not only be unnfun, but you will never win with it.
UWGRBSliver Queen Control p=8329402#post8329402
RBUWG Slivers http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=363247 RETIRED
G Omnath http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=7428848#post7428848
Legacy
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Alrighty, thanks for giving us a free lesson and education on how bad and unplayable Phantasm and SoBM is. Like I mentioned, we shouldn't write these bunch of cards totally without brewing. Last I read, many posers still thinks Phantasm is promising.
Pardon, you're saying a 5/5 flier for U isn't a good creature, even if it has Serra Avenger type restrictions?
Now on a more serious note, let's look at a few things:
1.) The decks that exist in Standard now won't exist post rotation, and may not exist come M13. We may very well see graveyards filling up faster, or we may not.
2.) Why is Frites outclassing you if you're control? Cool, they play their big guy and you murder the big guy, you don't care about the tokens as you should Pyroclasm or have your own Lingering Souls.
3.) Playing a 5/5 flier for U late game is very different than playing a different threat late game. For the following sub reasons:
3a.) U is a much lesser mana commitment than UU, BB, WW, or whatever. This means you can focus more on decks that aren't necessarily blue when it comes to control, and Murder hints at this. Plus, Lingering Souls is a house.
3b.) Playing a spell and having a single counter up is ok, it means you survive one removal spell. But wait, you're control, have they really used their removal on your 1/1 tokens? Not very likely love, you're going to see them most likely have two removal spells for your creature and leaving 5+ mana up is more relevant than leaving up 2-3 mana up.
Let's face it, with Cavern of Souls around and a the absence of Mana Leak, we're going to see control move more towards a removal or tap out shell rather than a permission shell and in that case having up enough mana for one protection spell isn't going to be enough. And when I say protection spell, I don't exactly mean counters, because a Restoration Angel is pretty good too, but it does cost 4 mana.
3c.) This guy is still a 1/1 flier for U... Like sure, it sucks if you have to cast him in that form, but it's an option, and sometimes that's all it takes to get to your late game. Very few finishers read "U, Discard this Card: Put a 1/1 flying Illusion token into play" and in all honesty that's important in some games.
===============================================
So yea, I'm not going to sit here and say this card will be nuts, there's simply no indication of it, and it might easily be outclassed... However, I'm going to pick up my play set as it's only an uncommon, and I'm going to keep an eye out for it in terms of deck building. Then again I have an affinity for 5CC and a potential 5/5 flier for U goes well with a deck like that.
Karador EDH
Comments on decks welcome: http://tappedout.net/users/AradonTemplar/
Currently developing Set 1 of 3, 'Shadow': http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=436885
So you're arguing only sideboarding it? I didn't know anybody was debating that.
But it's not just control mirrors it shines, it's pretty good in any slow game. It outclasses roughly everything in the air right now, and costs way less than any of it. Being able to spend 1 mana on a win condition and the rest of your mana on controlling the game is what makes an excellent control variant. I'm reminded of how detrimental Blade Splicer was to the control mirror. I'm also reminded of how ridiculous Serra Ascendant was in Soul Sisters, no matter what turn it was.
You should give it a try, it's pretty fantastic SB material.
No, I'm arguing that it's always bad under any circumstances. Against control decks or against Delver it is slightly less bad because they at least fill their graveyards a little faster.
Check out http://www.mtgbrodeals.com/author/john-murphy/ for my EDH articles!
The Phantasm doesn't care about how the cards make it to the opponent's graveyard, as long as they do. That being said, the Phantasm makes a nice addition to U/B control decks, where one can run hand disruption, removal and countermagic in order to fill up the GY. Heck, it even has Nephalia's Drownyard to mill cards if need be.
The disappointment, obviously, is that the Phantasm is not going to be swinging for full power on turn 2. This is a fact. WotC knows better than to give us a 5/5 flying creature for with no drawbacks. Instead, one should be looking at its mid- and late-game value: it's a big finisher that can be cast with plenty of countermagic backup.
Jace's Phantasm is no Delver, but it isn't to be discarded as useless just yet.
Jace's Trolling ---
Instant
Split Second
Exile target spell, then return Jace's Trolling to its owner's hand.
"Yeah, sure... when pigs fly."
-Mark Rosewater about printing this card
Did somebody correct this guy yet?
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
Ancient Grudge predates Smash.
Standard: W/R Aggro
No problem. I only know what it does because I've played it in block.:D
*DCI Rules Advisor*
Werent the guilds disbanded?
Yes, according to some book about eight people read.
However, don't expect them to constrain themselves to that-
they're more interested in selling product than pleasing Canon Nazis.
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
Agreed. I'm excited with the prospects of brewing some decks with Jace Phantasm. This guy looks fun and promising.
Needs moar Delver.
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
And they put Fury Charm in the same block too. That block just **** all over Shatter.
They are both predated by Shattering Pulse though.
Sig by Rivenor at miraculous recovery and Avatar by Ace5301 at five handed lizard
EDH
Ghave
Phelddagrif
Omnath
Because one person called it unplayable and everyone else had very little opinion at all? It elicited almost no reaction at all other than one person. Whereas Phantasm has a number of people saying it's terrible, and a number of people saying it needs testing. More likely scenario? It's terrible, which it is.
Check out http://www.mtgbrodeals.com/author/john-murphy/ for my EDH articles!
My point was more that the card was initially seen as either terrible, or a casual only card because it's not consistent enough and we know how that turned out. The phantasm might well be terrible, but we don't know how the metagame is going to shape up. You don't even need to be trying to mill, a deck making the opponent discard, using something like thought scour or even just casting removal/mass removal, is probably going to fill the opponents graveyard fairly quickly.
Turn 4: Liliana PW -2 then cast Liliana's Shade and fetch a Swamp