What the hell does white have that everyone else doesn't? Restoration Angel? sure its good but Blue has Delver? Red and Green have Huntmaster? The only colour that really has been screwed over lately is black. Green just got Rancor. Red just got Thundermaw Hellkite to replace a white card.
Go back to Legacy. And sorry you've had such bad luck with packs. Should've bought a box
lets see. White gets
Sublime Angel
Geist of Saint Traft
Restoration angel
Stoneforge Mystic
Day of Judgment (no damnation reprint minus the regen clause yet white gets this)
Terminus
Entreat the angels
Squadron Hawk
Ajani, Caller of the Pride
Elspeth, Knight Errant
Knight of the Reliquary
Need i go on?
Seriously? Seriously? research the color your defending before you defend it.
There is absolutely no reason to believe the shocklands will return in RTR other than baseless jumping to conclusions. There is every reason to believe they won't be reprinted in RTR.
1. Reprints of rares in expansion sets don't happen very often because WotC likes using the rare slot to show off the marquee parts of the set. Rehashes aren't going to fly here.
2. Ravnica's guild system is in tatters. This means the multicolor organization of Return to Ravnica is not going to be the same. This means it is far far more likely a new set of rare basic land typed lands is going to be printed. The plane has changed, so will the available lands.
Guilds aren't in tatters, they still exist, and datamined info already shows they're returning.
All ten former guilds are (most likely, at least these five) still intact.
I think its just pure speculation that shocklands will come back instead of entirely new lands. I would like them to come back, but there's no core evidence to it except for a bunch of forest-based cards in M13.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Proud Member of the "Help Fblthp Get Home in DGM" Society
While I was really hoping that the shocks would make some sort of appearance in M13 (what with the keywords Swamp and Forest appearing on a few cards), I will not complain that they reprinted what I call 'staple' lands.
These are exactly what new players need to understand that duals have some drawback without it having to necessarily be a shock.
Yeah this just cinched me not buying a single draft/pack for this. Nothing to be excited over AND what looks like an extremely slow limited format. Count me out.
There is absolutely no reason to believe the shocklands will return in RTR other than baseless jumping to conclusions. There is every reason to believe they won't be reprinted in RTR.
1. Reprints of rares in expansion sets don't happen very often because WotC likes using the rare slot to show off the marquee parts of the set. Rehashes aren't going to fly here.
2. Ravnica's guild system is in tatters. This means the multicolor organization of Return to Ravnica is not going to be the same. This means it is far far more likely a new set of rare basic land typed lands is going to be printed. The plane has changed, so will the available lands.
I'll echo what someone said above about disagreeing with you, and I full agree with both things he said. In addition. we have a significant amount of evidence that there will be dual lands with dual land types in RTR. The black card that has Islands matter. Farseek and the 4 mana ramp spell not limiting basics. Rampant Growth being removed from the core set after one year when most (not all) commons and uncommons get at least 2 year run.
Finally, Zac Hills article from two weeks ago when he spoiled Liliana also gave a lot of indication when he specifically pointed out the Liliana gets any swamp card, and then further drew attention to that fact.
All of this is to say that any speculation is not at all baseless, and in fact, is based on very sound evidence.
Yeah this just cinched me not buying a single draft/pack for this. Nothing to be excited over AND what looks like an extremely slow limited format. Count me out.
Yeah, slow limited formats suck. Everyone hated ROE and loved Zendikar so much.
I personally am thrilled with the decision. I know all of 1 competitive player and upwards of 30 non competitive players. The majority want cheap mana fixing and $80 for a set of lands is preposterous. Most of us can build 2 or more whole decks on that.
I hope to see the M10 lands (and innistrad extension thereof) for a few more years. I could always go with more mana fixing.
This set is LAME, BAD and TERRIBLE...how can i explain this? this way:
Why do we need a fourth reprint of those lands? they were never indispensable for the format. Before they existed there were others that could work the mana base really well, and the best example are the shocklands.
I thought this set would be different in terms of lands but i guess they want RTR be exclusively the same as its previous version...that is so dissaponting.
So far, the best MCore set has been M11 in terms of power...the rest just sucks. I was expecting some shocklands in this core set after seeing farseek and the new liliana and the gem of becoming... What a bitter surprise we got nothing exciting.
And you know what else? the mythics are lame. just because we have some new powerful angel and vampire nocturnus and the ajani it doesn't mean this set is bonkers...because its not, its just some random piece of low quality marketing...
I'll echo what someone said above about disagreeing with you, and I full agree with both things he said. In addition. we have a significant amount of evidence that there will be dual lands with dual land types in RTR. The black card that has Islands matter. Farseek and the 4 mana ramp spell not limiting basics. Rampant Growth being removed from the core set after one year when most (not all) commons and uncommons get at least 2 year run.
Finally, Zac Hills article from two weeks ago when he spoiled Liliana also gave a lot of indication when he specifically pointed out the Liliana gets any swamp card, and then further drew attention to that fact.
All of this is to say that any speculation is not at all baseless, and in fact, is based on very sound evidence.
Yeah, slow limited formats suck. Everyone hated ROE and loved Zendikar so much.
What these all point to are lands with basic land types. This does not point specifically to the shocklands.
It's far more likely that that a new set of dual lands based on basic land types reflecting the changes to Ravnica are printed instead of the original shocklands.
I'm glad since I won't need to buy new lands, but I am a little disappointed, but only because I really wanted to buy a box. There's no box sellers in this set
M13 is shaping up to be a solid core set. I don't understand all the hate. It's obviously not a core set to buy a box for, but I like what it adds to standard.
Yeah this just cinched me not buying a single draft/pack for this. Nothing to be excited over AND what looks like an extremely slow limited format. Count me out.
What? I love slow limited formats. It's a nice change of pace form the usually fast constructed formats.
I am not at all surprised by this announcement, as those lands are so very useful, but I am slightly disappointed, as they have been printed three times before this. Why could WotC not have reprinted the dual lands from Innistrad (clifftop retreat, sulfur falls, etc.)? That would definitely have been a wise tactic, in my mind.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
“Those who would trade their freedoms for security will have neither.”-Benjamin Franklin
“When the people fear the government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.”-Thomas Jefferson
“A vote is like a rifle; its usefulness depends upon the character of its user.”-Theodore Roosevelt
“Patriotism means to stand by one's country; it does not mean to stand by one's president.”-Theodore Roosevelt
I hate the fact that the draft format will change to m13. I like many other people on this board will not buy a single pack of m13. The only Magic I play is draft. As such I guess I will be taking a 3 months break.
Utterly disappointing. 4 straight years of these lands. I thought they wanted core sets to be a real thing that tournament players would want to buy and draft and stuff? This is getting ridiculous. First 2 years were good, three was pushing it, four is absurd.
I hate the fact that the draft format will change to m13. I like many other people on this board will not buy a single pack of m13. The only Magic I play is draft. As such I guess I will be taking a 3 months break.
I'll eat my hat if M13 draft isn't far and away better than AVR draft. AVR draft is crummy and unfun, glad to be rid of it, even if it's something mediocre.
What these all point to are lands with basic land types. This does not point specifically to the shocklands.
It's far more likely that that a new set of dual lands based on basic land types reflecting the changes to Ravnica are printed instead of the original shocklands.
I disagree again. There is a large calling for Shocklands to be reprinted (even if I disagree with it), and that means there is financial incentive to reprint them. Financial incentive is the biggest thing that a company will look at.
Second, as someone above said, why change something that is almost a perfect design? There is no reason to change something for the sake of changing something. It just doesn't make any logical sense.
Third, adding more dual lands with basic land types to Modern won't make Modern any more accessible, which is something they have stated they want to do. One of three things will happen. New lands will be significantly better than the Shocklands. This will cause everyone to want them for both Standard and Modern, and a price tag nearly $30 per land, and upwards of $40 for Islands. The second possibility is depending on the deck, new lands might be better than Shocks. Once again, this will cause those lands to run around $30, and around $40 if they are Islands. At the same time, Shocks will not decrease in value any. Lastly, they could just be worse all around than Shocks, having no effect on Modern, but still costing around $7-15 for Standard play, because it's all we have in Standard. Wizards might be all about making money, but having multiple successful formats is in their best interest. Adding new dual lands to Modern is a step in the wrong direction.
Lastly, Occam's Razor, always my favorite argument.
I hate the fact that the draft format will change to m13. I like many other people on this board will not buy a single pack of m13. The only Magic I play is draft. As such I guess I will be taking a 3 months break.
Good luck becoming a better competitive Magic player by skipping entire formats.
I'll eat my hat if M13 draft isn't far and away better than AVR draft. AVR draft is crummy and unfun, glad to be rid of it, even if it's something mediocre.
I agree with this, I enjoyed my first few but it went downhill from there..
I'm still an INN/DKA draft fan.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Proud Member of the "Help Fblthp Get Home in DGM" Society
Assuming the shocklands are indeed in RTR, it makes a ton of sense to give us the checklands back seeing as how they play together perfectly with one another.
Core sets are meant to reprint staples, remember folks. Expansion sets are the ones for new cards and abilities.
The whole point of them introducing a Core Set every year was so that they could take things out and put other things in on a yearly basis to help prevent things from getting stale/redundant/too powerful. m13 will mark the 4th printings of these lands and while it's okay for new players it's crappy for everyone else. These probably won't even be worth 2 dollars after m13 hits, who doesn't have a playset of them by now that wanted them at this point anyway?
I don't. I took a more than decade long break from Magic. I started playing again in January, right about when Dark Ascension came out. I've got a full set of Drowned Catacombs and Dragonskull Summit, and a few others here and there. I only have the two playsets because I tend to play those three colors, so I haven't made a point to trade for the others. I'm fully in favor of reprinting 5 important lands that every player can use to lower the price of entry for new and returning players.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My Decks:
Innistrad-RTR
UWR Flash: 7-1, 1 FNM Win-A-Box
Rakdos Aggro: 20-8
UW Flash: 11-5
Boros Aggro: 3-1
Jund: 42-12-3, 4 TNM Win-A-Box, 2 Koopa Standard IQs, Gatecrash Game Day Champion, M14 Game Day Champion
I don't. I took a more than decade long break from Magic. I started playing again in January, right about when Dark Ascension came out. I've got a full set of Drowned Catacombs and Dragonskull Summit, and a few others here and there. I only have the two playsets because I tend to play those three colors, so I haven't made a point to trade for the others. I'm fully in favor of reprinting 5 important lands that every player can use to lower the price of entry for new and returning players.
And this is exactly why I love these lands. They let people get into competitive and casual play cheaply, exactly as it should be. There will always be two sets of allied lands in every Standard. Why can't one of those sets be relatively cheap for people to buy? What is so bad about that? Let the "expert" expansions provide new or exciting lands, and let the Core Set provide some stability to the metagame.
I am not at all surprised by this announcement, as those lands are so very useful, but I am slightly disappointed, as they have been printed three times before this. Why could WotC not have reprinted the dual lands from Innistrad (clifftop retreat, sulfur falls, etc.)? That would definitely have been a wise tactic, in my mind.
All that would have accomplished is lowering their price (which is already decent). M13 and INN rotate at the same time. Also, as has been stated in this thread, allied fixing will (and should be) better than enemy fixing (barring a set where enemy colors is a theme). If they are only going to print 5 lands, they will be allied ones.
EDH is like French fries: some people like waffle cut, crinkle cut, or plain old straight cut, and while there's slight flavor difference and personal preference, at the end of the day they're still fries.
And this is exactly why I love these lands. They let people get into competitive and casual play cheaply, exactly as it should be. There will always be two sets of allied lands in every Standard. Why can't one of those sets be relatively cheap for people to buy? What is so bad about that? Let the "expert" expansions provide new or exciting lands, and let the Core Set provide some stability to the metagame.
Maybe we can actually agree on something.
FTR...the selfishness that I see in this game boggles my mind. The game is hard enough for people to get into because of how damn expensive it is. Some of us aren't made out of money.
Maybe we'll see the day when the top rares go for $20 again.
lets see. White gets
Sublime Angel
Geist of Saint Traft
Restoration angel
Stoneforge Mystic
Day of Judgment (no damnation reprint minus the regen clause yet white gets this)
Terminus
Entreat the angels
Squadron Hawk
Ajani, Caller of the Pride
Elspeth, Knight Errant
Knight of the Reliquary
Need i go on?
Seriously? Seriously? research the color your defending before you defend it.
White.
Is.
Broken.
Wizards.
Is
Dumb.
GBW Control
UWB Esper Thing Control
Guilds aren't in tatters, they still exist, and datamined info already shows they're returning.
All ten former guilds are (most likely, at least these five) still intact.
We're getting:
Selesnya
Rakodos
Azorius
Golgari
Izzet
In RTR.
I think its just pure speculation that shocklands will come back instead of entirely new lands. I would like them to come back, but there's no core evidence to it except for a bunch of forest-based cards in M13.
RRR Khorenthos - The Red Block (Feedback needed!) RRR
These are exactly what new players need to understand that duals have some drawback without it having to necessarily be a shock.
Link to cubetutor:
http://cubetutor.com/cubeblog/10113
none
Modern
UBG B/U/G control
BBB MBC
WUR Control
WWW Prison
RRR Goblins
Legacy
BBB Pox
UBG B/U/G Control
UWU StoneBlade
UW Miracle Control
I'll echo what someone said above about disagreeing with you, and I full agree with both things he said. In addition. we have a significant amount of evidence that there will be dual lands with dual land types in RTR. The black card that has Islands matter. Farseek and the 4 mana ramp spell not limiting basics. Rampant Growth being removed from the core set after one year when most (not all) commons and uncommons get at least 2 year run.
Finally, Zac Hills article from two weeks ago when he spoiled Liliana also gave a lot of indication when he specifically pointed out the Liliana gets any swamp card, and then further drew attention to that fact.
All of this is to say that any speculation is not at all baseless, and in fact, is based on very sound evidence.
Yeah, slow limited formats suck. Everyone hated ROE and loved Zendikar so much.
Check out http://www.mtgbrodeals.com/author/john-murphy/ for my EDH articles!
I hope to see the M10 lands (and innistrad extension thereof) for a few more years. I could always go with more mana fixing.
Why do we need a fourth reprint of those lands? they were never indispensable for the format. Before they existed there were others that could work the mana base really well, and the best example are the shocklands.
I thought this set would be different in terms of lands but i guess they want RTR be exclusively the same as its previous version...that is so dissaponting.
So far, the best MCore set has been M11 in terms of power...the rest just sucks. I was expecting some shocklands in this core set after seeing farseek and the new liliana and the gem of becoming... What a bitter surprise we got nothing exciting.
And you know what else? the mythics are lame. just because we have some new powerful angel and vampire nocturnus and the ajani it doesn't mean this set is bonkers...because its not, its just some random piece of low quality marketing...
What these all point to are lands with basic land types. This does not point specifically to the shocklands.
It's far more likely that that a new set of dual lands based on basic land types reflecting the changes to Ravnica are printed instead of the original shocklands.
Then again, Wizards said new players don't like paying life.
RRR Khorenthos - The Red Block (Feedback needed!) RRR
What? I love slow limited formats. It's a nice change of pace form the usually fast constructed formats.
“When the people fear the government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.”-Thomas Jefferson
“A vote is like a rifle; its usefulness depends upon the character of its user.”-Theodore Roosevelt
“Patriotism means to stand by one's country; it does not mean to stand by one's president.”-Theodore Roosevelt
I was Golgari before it was cool.
I'll eat my hat if M13 draft isn't far and away better than AVR draft. AVR draft is crummy and unfun, glad to be rid of it, even if it's something mediocre.
I was Golgari before it was cool.
I disagree again. There is a large calling for Shocklands to be reprinted (even if I disagree with it), and that means there is financial incentive to reprint them. Financial incentive is the biggest thing that a company will look at.
Second, as someone above said, why change something that is almost a perfect design? There is no reason to change something for the sake of changing something. It just doesn't make any logical sense.
Third, adding more dual lands with basic land types to Modern won't make Modern any more accessible, which is something they have stated they want to do. One of three things will happen. New lands will be significantly better than the Shocklands. This will cause everyone to want them for both Standard and Modern, and a price tag nearly $30 per land, and upwards of $40 for Islands. The second possibility is depending on the deck, new lands might be better than Shocks. Once again, this will cause those lands to run around $30, and around $40 if they are Islands. At the same time, Shocks will not decrease in value any. Lastly, they could just be worse all around than Shocks, having no effect on Modern, but still costing around $7-15 for Standard play, because it's all we have in Standard. Wizards might be all about making money, but having multiple successful formats is in their best interest. Adding new dual lands to Modern is a step in the wrong direction.
Lastly, Occam's Razor, always my favorite argument.
Good luck becoming a better competitive Magic player by skipping entire formats.
Check out http://www.mtgbrodeals.com/author/john-murphy/ for my EDH articles!
I agree with this, I enjoyed my first few but it went downhill from there..
I'm still an INN/DKA draft fan.
RRR Khorenthos - The Red Block (Feedback needed!) RRR
Core sets are meant to reprint staples, remember folks. Expansion sets are the ones for new cards and abilities.
I don't. I took a more than decade long break from Magic. I started playing again in January, right about when Dark Ascension came out. I've got a full set of Drowned Catacombs and Dragonskull Summit, and a few others here and there. I only have the two playsets because I tend to play those three colors, so I haven't made a point to trade for the others. I'm fully in favor of reprinting 5 important lands that every player can use to lower the price of entry for new and returning players.
Innistrad-RTR
UWR Flash: 7-1, 1 FNM Win-A-Box
Rakdos Aggro: 20-8
UW Flash: 11-5
Boros Aggro: 3-1
Jund: 42-12-3, 4 TNM Win-A-Box, 2 Koopa Standard IQs, Gatecrash Game Day Champion, M14 Game Day Champion
RTR - Theros
RDW 6-0 1 TNM Win-A-Box
Esper Control 7-4
Boros Burn 3-1
RW Devotion 3-1
Monoblack Devotion 8-4
And this is exactly why I love these lands. They let people get into competitive and casual play cheaply, exactly as it should be. There will always be two sets of allied lands in every Standard. Why can't one of those sets be relatively cheap for people to buy? What is so bad about that? Let the "expert" expansions provide new or exciting lands, and let the Core Set provide some stability to the metagame.
Check out http://www.mtgbrodeals.com/author/john-murphy/ for my EDH articles!
All that would have accomplished is lowering their price (which is already decent). M13 and INN rotate at the same time. Also, as has been stated in this thread, allied fixing will (and should be) better than enemy fixing (barring a set where enemy colors is a theme). If they are only going to print 5 lands, they will be allied ones.
Maybe we can actually agree on something.
FTR...the selfishness that I see in this game boggles my mind. The game is hard enough for people to get into because of how damn expensive it is. Some of us aren't made out of money.
Maybe we'll see the day when the top rares go for $20 again.
Well, one can dream anyway.
I'm really bored of seeing the same 5 color pairs.
RRR Khorenthos - The Red Block (Feedback needed!) RRR
How To Keep Your FOIL Cards From Curling: http://youtu.be/QTmubrS8VnI
The Best Deck Boxes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEwgLph_Pjk
The Best Binders: http://youtu.be/H5IauASYWjk