He would be one of the best Walkers ever if you got to choose what to discard. At RR it would see so much play that it would disgust everyone.
This. Most definitely this. He would become an overpowered Phyrexian Arena at no life loss, immediately get to draw, cost less, all at the cost of discarding a card. He would be too powerful if it wasn't for the random clause.
In standard I can totally see him being at home in a U/R control deck. He's got extra draw, a decent burn ability and the ability to end the game. Though I will say you will almost never see his ultimate. Run him with snaps and flashback back spells to get the most use out of him.
The biggest problem I see with him in standard though is that he dies to delver. That is an extremely big deal.
"Some of the other guys dared me to go out, but I knew it weren't no ordinary giant giga-blasting blaze of unending flames that would scorch the whole world."
—Norin the Wary
He would be one of the best Walkers ever if you got to choose what to discard. At RR it would see so much play that it would disgust everyone.
This really exemplifies the difficulties of a 2 mana planeswalker. At 3 mana you have symmetric effects, how do you go below symmetric? Looting is better than symmetric, they went with unreliable as worse than symmetric.
Tibalt seems decent for a U/R Devil Delver Blade deck. Tibalt, Vexing Devil, Delver, snappy... Maybe an option worth exploring if we get a nice U/R spell land in AVR.
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You should only be activating Tibalt when you don't like your hand. At which point it doesn't matter much if you're discarding randomly, your hand can only get better or you're in the same position as you would be otherwise.
If your opponent is expending time, damage, and/or other resources into removing your two-mana looter, then good for you. You probably got the better end out of that trade. If he does live long enough to add a little burn on top of that, or even give you an Insurrection, that's just gravy. But a bump to your card quality and some prevented damage is not at all unreasonable for the small investment you paid for him.
Look at your hand, and now back to me. Now back at your hand. Sadly it isn't my hand, but if you shuffle better it could be. Where are you? You're at your LGS drawing the hand you could have had. What's in your hand? Back to me. I have already played two Herbal Poultices. Look at it again. Those poultices are now Tarmogoyfs. Anything is possible when you shuffle better. I'm on a Phelddagrif.
Standard: Naya Pod; Delver Pike (MTGO) Modern: Patriot Aggro EDH:Rafiq of the Many
Luminum, I completely agree with you. That wakes very good sense. I also wish that the enchant was cheaper, it seems like by the time that I have 5 land most of my creatures would be out defeating the primary purpose. I would love to explore ramp tokens with this. I like the card.
I love that when he's dropped he's open to death by Shock.
Nope. You hold priority, and can get him up to 3 counters before your opponent can hit him.
I think this guy is awesome. He seems like a Shrine that does a little less damage and is worse against creature decks, but has the ability to be a huge threat against control decks, and doesn't get killed by artifact removal post-SB. Not the best card by any stretch, but he costs two mana, so he doesn't have to be. Might have to be a SB only card in RDW just because of how bad he is against decks with early creatures, though.
He needed to cost one more and remove the random clause. As is... It will take a very narrow deck to abuse him. Turbofog and/or Frites. UR anything does not want this guy. Unless there is some better way to pump him up, I find him pretty bad.
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To the people that say that a card needs to be a higher rarity because of Limited... I hate you guys so much. I present to you with this.
I once farted during the final match for prizes at an FNM. It was a tense moment, everything was quiet, control vs control, I was about to mana leak, thought about it.. and farted. Then mana leaked.
I love that when he's dropped he's open to death by Shock.
Not if I activate his +1 ability.
When my Planeswalker comes into play, I have priority until I do something that would otherwise pass it to you like put something on the stack.
I use his first ability and pay the cost thus putting him up to 3 loyalty. You can then respond to his ability going on the stack it by shocking me and at resolution redirect it to my planeswalker but by then he has 3 loyalty and would put him at 1.
You should only be activating Tibalt when you don't like your hand. At which point it doesn't matter much if you're discarding randomly, your hand can only get better or you're in the same position as you would be otherwise.
If your opponent is expending time, damage, and/or other resources into removing your two-mana looter, then good for you. You probably got the better end out of that trade. If he does live long enough to add a little burn on top of that, or even give you an Insurrection, that's just gravy. But a bump to your card quality and some prevented damage is not at all unreasonable for the small investment you paid for him.
I think you're looking at Tibalt in a vacuum and that doesn't necessarily work. All the things you said are positives, but they don't really fit into the plan of red's usual strategy. Red wants to put early pressure on an opponent and to keep applying that pressure through the early turns. Marginally upgrading card quality in hand with this guy is going to take time - time that red doesn't traditionally have. I mean, blue is going to win the card quality race every single time. In fact, the strategy you outlined would be much better suited for a blue deck: improve card quality over time and then win with a big effect.
That's not to say Tibalt is all bad. Right now, I see this guy being used as a sideboard card against UB Control decks. If they don't counter him, then he has the potential to deal a lot of damage over time over the long term. However, he still doesn't go in over Shrine of Burning Rage. Maybe he acts like Shrines 5 and 6.
Further, as more and more Avacyn gets released, we may find additional uses for him. He may even fit in a whole new type of red deck. But right now, he just does not seem conducive to red's main game plan.
I think you're looking at Tibalt in a vacuum and that doesn't necessarily work. All the things you said are positives, but they don't really fit into the plan of red's usual strategy. Red wants to put early pressure on an opponent and to keep applying that pressure through the early turns. Marginally upgrading card quality in hand with this guy is going to take time - time that red doesn't traditionally have. I mean, blue is going to win the card quality race every single time. In fact, the strategy you outlined would be much better suited for a blue deck: improve card quality over time and then win with a big effect.
That's not to say Tibalt is all bad. Right now, I see this guy being used as a sideboard card against UB Control decks. If they don't counter him, then he has the potential to deal a lot of damage over time. However, he still doesn't go in over Shrine of Burning Rage. Maybe he acts like Shrines 5 and 6.
Further, as more and more Avacyn gets released, we may find additional uses for him. He may even fit in a whole new type of red deck. But right now, he just does not seem conducive to red's main game plan.
He goes best into a specific sort of red deck, then, yeah. Or a slower deck that pairs red with one or more other colors. Or a deck that can take advantage of discarded cards (I hear Flashback is good with that). I'm not advocating slipping him into any red deck, but in one that is set up to work with this style of card he's hardly garbage. He really doesn't need to do much work at all to be worth the mana you paid for him.
Further, as more and more Avacyn gets released, we may find additional uses for him. He may even fit in a whole new type of red deck. But right now, he just does not seem conducive to red's main game plan.
Zac did imply that there was a card that'd synergize really well with him.
being a u/w control player i think i would not mind the gamble. up to 7 damage at the risk of you tossing potentionly more damage b/c of the randaom effect.
of course when chandar phoenix rotates in october makes this pw even worse w/o a replacement
2. Didn't think people would be right about it being that devil (!)
3. Didn't imagine they'd make a 2 mana walker.
surprising. But honestly....I don't find it very appealing. I mean I get that just having a pw at 2 mana is strong, but I don't really get his abilities. I feel like if this guy popped up in the create a card forum, he would get shot to hell for making no sense...
But whatever, what do I know. I'm sure some people will pay a lot of money for him and be happy to have him, so gods speed
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I invision a future where one is not mighty when he can silence a crowd with brutality,
but when he leaves them speechless with wisdom.
but has the ability to be a huge threat against control decks, and doesn't get killed by artifact removal post-SB. Not the best card by any stretch, but he costs two mana, so he doesn't have to be.
In what world is he good against control decks? They have the best cards to deal with him at the moment ala Delver of SecretsInvisible Stalker Spirit Tokens up the Wazoo and post board Celestial Purge they even have Gut Shot and Snapcaster Mage if they really need to burn him out. Also unless you hit hard fast his four does nothing to control decks, they cant take it as long as they can stableize
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This. Most definitely this. He would become an overpowered Phyrexian Arena at no life loss, immediately get to draw, cost less, all at the cost of discarding a card. He would be too powerful if it wasn't for the random clause.
In standard I can totally see him being at home in a U/R control deck. He's got extra draw, a decent burn ability and the ability to end the game. Though I will say you will almost never see his ultimate. Run him with snaps and flashback back spells to get the most use out of him.
The biggest problem I see with him in standard though is that he dies to delver. That is an extremely big deal.
Cockatrice Username: seriph0
This really exemplifies the difficulties of a 2 mana planeswalker. At 3 mana you have symmetric effects, how do you go below symmetric? Looting is better than symmetric, they went with unreliable as worse than symmetric.
I like him!
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If your opponent is expending time, damage, and/or other resources into removing your two-mana looter, then good for you. You probably got the better end out of that trade. If he does live long enough to add a little burn on top of that, or even give you an Insurrection, that's just gravy. But a bump to your card quality and some prevented damage is not at all unreasonable for the small investment you paid for him.
R Citizen Cane (Feldon of the Third Path)
Gotta think outside the box for this one. Not gonna automatically write him off.
Discarding at random feels like such a stigma, but yeah, if your hand is full of super nice things, why use the loot in the first place?
Standard: Naya Pod; Delver Pike (MTGO)
Modern: Patriot Aggro
EDH: Rafiq of the Many
Nope. You hold priority, and can get him up to 3 counters before your opponent can hit him.
I think this guy is awesome. He seems like a Shrine that does a little less damage and is worse against creature decks, but has the ability to be a huge threat against control decks, and doesn't get killed by artifact removal post-SB. Not the best card by any stretch, but he costs two mana, so he doesn't have to be. Might have to be a SB only card in RDW just because of how bad he is against decks with early creatures, though.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SY8h2vp5Xis
Assuming you don't +1 him, since you have priority and what not.
Not if I activate his +1 ability.
When my Planeswalker comes into play, I have priority until I do something that would otherwise pass it to you like put something on the stack.
I use his first ability and pay the cost thus putting him up to 3 loyalty. You can then respond to his ability going on the stack it by shocking me and at resolution redirect it to my planeswalker but by then he has 3 loyalty and would put him at 1.
I think you're looking at Tibalt in a vacuum and that doesn't necessarily work. All the things you said are positives, but they don't really fit into the plan of red's usual strategy. Red wants to put early pressure on an opponent and to keep applying that pressure through the early turns. Marginally upgrading card quality in hand with this guy is going to take time - time that red doesn't traditionally have. I mean, blue is going to win the card quality race every single time. In fact, the strategy you outlined would be much better suited for a blue deck: improve card quality over time and then win with a big effect.
That's not to say Tibalt is all bad. Right now, I see this guy being used as a sideboard card against UB Control decks. If they don't counter him, then he has the potential to deal a lot of damage over time over the long term. However, he still doesn't go in over Shrine of Burning Rage. Maybe he acts like Shrines 5 and 6.
Further, as more and more Avacyn gets released, we may find additional uses for him. He may even fit in a whole new type of red deck. But right now, he just does not seem conducive to red's main game plan.
He goes best into a specific sort of red deck, then, yeah. Or a slower deck that pairs red with one or more other colors. Or a deck that can take advantage of discarded cards (I hear Flashback is good with that). I'm not advocating slipping him into any red deck, but in one that is set up to work with this style of card he's hardly garbage. He really doesn't need to do much work at all to be worth the mana you paid for him.
R Citizen Cane (Feldon of the Third Path)
Zac did imply that there was a card that'd synergize really well with him.
Standard: BR BR Vampires (0-0-0)
Legacy: RR Burn (12-10-0)
Mirrodin Pure: Leave the memories alone.
of course when chandar phoenix rotates in october makes this pw even worse w/o a replacement
1. Didn't expect to get the other pw yet
2. Didn't think people would be right about it being that devil (!)
3. Didn't imagine they'd make a 2 mana walker.
surprising. But honestly....I don't find it very appealing. I mean I get that just having a pw at 2 mana is strong, but I don't really get his abilities. I feel like if this guy popped up in the create a card forum, he would get shot to hell for making no sense...
But whatever, what do I know. I'm sure some people will pay a lot of money for him and be happy to have him, so gods speed
I invision a future where one is not mighty when he can silence a crowd with brutality,
but when he leaves them speechless with wisdom.
UBR Mishra Artifacts UBR
In what world is he good against control decks? They have the best cards to deal with him at the moment ala Delver of Secrets Invisible Stalker Spirit Tokens up the Wazoo and post board Celestial Purge they even have Gut Shot and Snapcaster Mage if they really need to burn him out. Also unless you hit hard fast his four does nothing to control decks, they cant take it as long as they can stableize