IF Hasbro isn't a charity, then consumers should vote with their wallet.
The helvault isn't worth it...
But again... many prerelease TO's are NOT chargin extra. In these case, people are *****ing just to *****, which is stupid. Do people complain when you do to the Ballpark and get a stupid bobblehead for free? Yeah it's dumb, but it's free... If your TO is charging extra this time, then yes. Boycott. But it's surely not Hasbro's fault when other shops are "doing it right."
That's some pure fanboyism there...
Hasbro isn't a charity...dude, they give away stuff all the time (pre-release promos, buy-a-box promos, grandprix promos, etc) it's all part of a thing called marketing. You spend money to make money.
In this case, the hellvault was a brilliant marketing tie-in with the game, it made a lot of people consider going to pre releases that wouldnt have gone ordinarly (such as I). but they had to know it would be spoiled in advance, so they had better put something in there to please (at this point I say anything playable would have worked) but instead they royally blew it.
I mean, they could have put some old worthless demons and angels cards (like in the angelic vs demonic decks), even at common, some people wopuld have been pleased. It would have been flavorful, it would have worked.
IF Hasbro isn't a charity, then consumers should vote with their wallet.
The helvault isn't worth it...
That's not "fanboyism" it's just not being greedy. I was planning on going to the pre-release regardless; adding a Hellvault--even with useless items--is a pure bonus. Not paying extra, doing no additional work, no drawback of any kind. How is that not "worth it"? Hell, the die and demon/angel tokens are useful even in gameplay.
thought i readed somthing about, that the stuff from helvault could be easy splitted. something like "if there ar 50-70 players each get 1x A, 2x B and once C", "if there are 70-90 players everyone will get 1x A plus 1x B or 1x C" . the only problem i have, is, that i could't refind the site. but im shure it was a official WotC site i readed about this. maybe anyone else can help out.
As far as I know most TOs are capping the Hellvault section at 54(?) players. There is prize support included for that number. My TO will allow more people into the pre-release but is only allowing the first 54 into the Hellvault part of the event.
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That's not "fanboyism" it's just not being greedy. I was planning on going to the pre-release regardless; adding a Hellvault--even with useless items--is a pure bonus. Not paying extra, doing no additional work, no drawback of any kind. How is that not "worth it"? Hell, the die and demon/angel tokens are useful even in gameplay.
.
Yeah I knew people would say that. I meant not worth it in a competitive stance. So, not worth it because :
-Some TOs charge extra (some dont so bleh)
-The rewards and price structure are less for a pre-release then for a regular tournament (again, this is not always true), and the entry prices are generally higher.
All of this just for a 2 week heads-up playing with cards that are not tournament worthy.
All of this just for a 2 week heads-up playing with cards that are not tournament worthy.
WOTC has always made it know that prereleases are aimed towards a more casual fanbase. Many areas don't even run sealed events outside of prereleases... which in itself sucks for those who love the format.
This being said, even if you just show up to draft... the format itself is undefined and completely new. There is no way to judge what draft archtypes are tournament worthy or not before we even get the cards in our hands.
This being said, prereleases aren't aimed for everyone, just like GP's aren't.
WOTC has always made it know that prereleases are aimed towards a more casual fanbase. Many areas don't even run sealed events outside of prereleases... which in itself sucks for those who love the format.
This being said, even if you just show up to draft... the format itself is undefined and completely new. There is no way to judge what draft archtypes are tournament worthy or not before we even get the cards in our hands.
This being said, prereleases aren't aimed for everyone, just like GP's aren't.
All along I thought that the goal was to lure more people in, of all types.
Yet Magic appeals to a wide range of people. Not everyone who plays is a kitchen table kind of guy, not every player wants to get a Pro tour point. Prereleases are in many places, a place where the casual players come out of the woodwork to play with new cards. Some "competitve" players still love this because they get to play sealed (which is a format supported in the Pro Tour). Besides, there really is no way to really gague wether a new set is competitve or not, since many of the top cards won't rise to the top until we start seeing them in action at larger events over the next month. So really prereleases are made for people to show up, and yes, "head's up playing." I can certainly think of many times where people flat out ignored cards spoiled until they started playing/losing to them at a prerelease.
thought i read something about, that the stuff from helvault could be easy splitted. something like "if there are 50-70 players each get 1x A, 2x B and once C", "if there are 70-90 players everyone will get 1x A plus 1x B or 1x C" . the only problem i have, is, that i couldn't refind the site. but I'm sure it was a official WotC site i read about this. maybe anyone else can help out.
There's a link in the first post in this thread.
I have been told that there are 54 oversized cards, not 54 sets of oversized cards. So I was positing that they would be given out randomly as item A.
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Kinda bummed the oversized cards aren't foil, but oh well.
Any guesses as to which will be the most desired?
I would guess Griselbrand and Avacyn, maybe Sigarda.
I want a whole set, so hopefully I get the most expensive one
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
Kinda bummed the oversized cards aren't foil, but oh well.
Any guesses as to which will be the most desired?
I would guess Griselbrand and Avacyn, maybe Sigarda.
I want a whole set, so hopefully I get the most expensive one
According to eBay right now, Avacyn. But there's really not much data, so that's a shot in the dark. I'm guessing one of the Powerpuff Girls, but really it's going to depend on your local store.
Is it the tokens that we get 2 of? I'll happily trade my oversized and spindowns for more of those puppies.
That's my guess based on data from the eBay seller, who said that there were "about 10" of each oversized card, and Jeebus, who did not measure but said that it'd be tight getting more than 54 oversized cards into the bottom compartment where the loot is. So it's not confirmed, but deduced.
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But again... many prerelease TO's are NOT chargin extra. In these case, people are *****ing just to *****, which is stupid. Do people complain when you do to the Ballpark and get a stupid bobblehead for free? Yeah it's dumb, but it's free... If your TO is charging extra this time, then yes. Boycott. But it's surely not Hasbro's fault when other shops are "doing it right."
Yeah, if they are not charging extra it's stupid. They are charging extra here in Brazil tough, and I'm glad someone opened it so I know I'll not want to pay for that cheap promotional material.
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Alea iacta est
I'm a Spike Vorthos - I love lore and flavor, but only if the cards are competition worthy.
Yeah I knew people would say that. I meant not worth it in a competitive stance. So, not worth it because :
-Some TOs charge extra (some dont so bleh)
-The rewards and price structure are less for a pre-release then for a regular tournament (again, this is not always true), and the entry prices are generally higher.
All of this just for a 2 week heads-up playing with cards that are not tournament worthy.
If you're a casual, sure the dice can be sweet...
I know of very few TOs that are actually charging extra. Venues vary, though, so I do know that there will be those that do. Go to a different one.
Here is the thing: this is still exactly the same as any other pre-release. Prize structure, entry price, etc. are all irrelevant in regards to the Hellvault. It is in addition to everything else as a small bonus, nothing more.
Your last sentence is just plain ignorant and an attempt to troll. More than "casuals" use dice and find them useful.
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Your last sentence is just plain ignorant and an attempt to troll. More than "casuals" use dice and find them useful.
Not to mention some dealers at large events actually pay some premium for them. I sold off a fistful at a GP for $3 a pop because they could easily sell them at the event... and did.
Here is the thing: this is still exactly the same as any other pre-release.
No.
Other pre-releases doesnt have a huge vault of potentially wonderful things.
As for the last comment, sarcasm is trolling?
In any case if you,re happy with it, great, I'm trying to voice the perspective of the bunch that never go to pre-releases and for once thought it might be worth it this time. I'm not going to bother for dice and tokens.
Can't expect an Emrakul or Hero of Bladehold level card at every pre-release, but the way WoTC built up the Helvault, it should have been better.
And there again, people had no idea either would be playable. The attraction of Emrakrul was more "big fat monster to try and break" than "this goes in X deck." Hero didn't see play right away, and neither did Broodmate Dragon, Vampire Nocturnus, Lotus Bloom, Wurmcoil, Ajani Vengant, or Korlash.
If your store is charging more,(like all the stores in a two hour radius of me) then look around and see if their offering some other promotion. I was disappointed to be paying $10 more for some stuff I would never use, but i found out that one of the stores was throwing in an additional booster box with all the other normal prizes. A pretty good deal for me, i usually get 1st-4th and get 10 boosters in all for $30, so hopefully this will mean about 15 boosters for $40.
If your store is charging more,(like all the stores in a two hour radius of me) then look around and see if their offering some other promotion. I was disappointed to be paying $10 more for some stuff I would never use, but i found out that one of the stores was throwing in an additional booster box with all the other normal prizes. A pretty good deal for me, i usually get 1st-4th and get 10 boosters in all for $30, so hopefully this will mean about 15 boosters for $40.
Your store is charging $40 for this pre-release!! That seems way overpriced even with an extra box as prize support. The place I am going to is only $20, since I pre-registered (normally $25), and they put in 2 packs per player for prize support. Its a helvault event and they are also giving away a pretty sweet altered art vendilion clique as the door prize, plus a bunch of other prizes.
Your store is charging $40 for this pre-release!! That seems way overpriced even with an extra box as prize support. The place I am going to is only $20, since I pre-registered (normally $25), and they put in 2 packs per player for prize support. Its a helvault event and they are also giving away a pretty sweet altered art vendilion clique as the door prize, plus a bunch of other prizes.
$20? Wow! I don't think I've ever paid less than $25, and typically it's $30.
I paid $30 this time, but there was a weird promotion. Preregister and you get 4 free packs of Dark Ascension. So that's a heck of an incentive right there.
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I don't go at prerelease usually, but when ia saw Helvault, i had an urge to go, i thought there would be cool promos or something. And then i saw the contents with oversized promos and was happy i haven't preregistered yet. Wizards, why you put there those bs oversized cards which are useless, and not some alternative art legendary angels?
Your last sentence is just plain ignorant and an attempt to troll. More than "casuals" use dice and find them useful.
Ya a piece of gaming equipment that you probably already have, is generally useless to have extra copies of, and is inferior to other products is real useful:rolleyes:.
A 40 dollar mythic rare would constitute a must have 4 of that goes in many decks.
Stats About Mythics
-Mythics are on average 40% rarer than pre-mythic rares
(old blocks about 200 rares, Mythic blocks 35+ mythics)
-They are printing more new cards a year not less
(about 665 now vs. 630 in most pre-mythic block)
-To drop the value of a rare by $1 a mythic must go up $2
-In a 3 year time span deck prices doubled. I am petitioning for the removal of mythic rarity. Sig this to join the cause.
I'll be paying $20 more for this pre-release in total, which includes two back-to-back tournaments. The $20 guarantees 8 additional packs as prizes, with as many as 18 for placing in the top 3rd both tournaments. I did the math and the difference in cost per pack is pennies, so I'm fine with it.
Normally, it's $45 for back-to-back tournaments, but the winnings are slimmer (anywhere from 2-10 packs total).
[QUOTE=pandafarmer;/comments/5560924]WOTC has always made it know that prereleases are aimed towards a more casual fanbase. [COLOR="Red"] Many areas don't even run sealed events outside of prereleases...
WOTC stopped all side events at the last pre-release.
sounds pretty decent to me, and i don't even play EDH.
It's really not that good. You HAVE to have a sleeved copy of the card with you in case your general gets tucked and I don't know if you've ever tried to play a 5+ person game of EDH on a single table, but there isn't exactly a whole lot of room for unnecessarily large vanity cards.
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But again... many prerelease TO's are NOT chargin extra. In these case, people are *****ing just to *****, which is stupid. Do people complain when you do to the Ballpark and get a stupid bobblehead for free? Yeah it's dumb, but it's free... If your TO is charging extra this time, then yes. Boycott. But it's surely not Hasbro's fault when other shops are "doing it right."
That's not "fanboyism" it's just not being greedy. I was planning on going to the pre-release regardless; adding a Hellvault--even with useless items--is a pure bonus. Not paying extra, doing no additional work, no drawback of any kind. How is that not "worth it"? Hell, the die and demon/angel tokens are useful even in gameplay.
As far as I know most TOs are capping the Hellvault section at 54(?) players. There is prize support included for that number. My TO will allow more people into the pre-release but is only allowing the first 54 into the Hellvault part of the event.
Yeah I knew people would say that. I meant not worth it in a competitive stance. So, not worth it because :
-Some TOs charge extra (some dont so bleh)
-The rewards and price structure are less for a pre-release then for a regular tournament (again, this is not always true), and the entry prices are generally higher.
All of this just for a 2 week heads-up playing with cards that are not tournament worthy.
If you're a casual, sure the dice can be sweet...
WOTC has always made it know that prereleases are aimed towards a more casual fanbase. Many areas don't even run sealed events outside of prereleases... which in itself sucks for those who love the format.
This being said, even if you just show up to draft... the format itself is undefined and completely new. There is no way to judge what draft archtypes are tournament worthy or not before we even get the cards in our hands.
This being said, prereleases aren't aimed for everyone, just like GP's aren't.
All along I thought that the goal was to lure more people in, of all types.
There's a link in the first post in this thread.
I have been told that there are 54 oversized cards, not 54 sets of oversized cards. So I was positing that they would be given out randomly as item A.
Any guesses as to which will be the most desired?
I would guess Griselbrand and Avacyn, maybe Sigarda.
I want a whole set, so hopefully I get the most expensive one
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
According to eBay right now, Avacyn. But there's really not much data, so that's a shot in the dark. I'm guessing one of the Powerpuff Girls, but really it's going to depend on your local store.
That's my guess based on data from the eBay seller, who said that there were "about 10" of each oversized card, and Jeebus, who did not measure but said that it'd be tight getting more than 54 oversized cards into the bottom compartment where the loot is. So it's not confirmed, but deduced.
Yeah, if they are not charging extra it's stupid. They are charging extra here in Brazil tough, and I'm glad someone opened it so I know I'll not want to pay for that cheap promotional material.
I'm a Spike Vorthos - I love lore and flavor, but only if the cards are competition worthy.
I know of very few TOs that are actually charging extra. Venues vary, though, so I do know that there will be those that do. Go to a different one.
Here is the thing: this is still exactly the same as any other pre-release. Prize structure, entry price, etc. are all irrelevant in regards to the Hellvault. It is in addition to everything else as a small bonus, nothing more.
Your last sentence is just plain ignorant and an attempt to troll. More than "casuals" use dice and find them useful.
Not to mention some dealers at large events actually pay some premium for them. I sold off a fistful at a GP for $3 a pop because they could easily sell them at the event... and did.
No.
Other pre-releases doesnt have a huge vault of potentially wonderful things.
As for the last comment, sarcasm is trolling?
In any case if you,re happy with it, great, I'm trying to voice the perspective of the bunch that never go to pre-releases and for once thought it might be worth it this time. I'm not going to bother for dice and tokens.
And there again, people had no idea either would be playable. The attraction of Emrakrul was more "big fat monster to try and break" than "this goes in X deck." Hero didn't see play right away, and neither did Broodmate Dragon, Vampire Nocturnus, Lotus Bloom, Wurmcoil, Ajani Vengant, or Korlash.
Your store is charging $40 for this pre-release!! That seems way overpriced even with an extra box as prize support. The place I am going to is only $20, since I pre-registered (normally $25), and they put in 2 packs per player for prize support. Its a helvault event and they are also giving away a pretty sweet altered art vendilion clique as the door prize, plus a bunch of other prizes.
$20? Wow! I don't think I've ever paid less than $25, and typically it's $30.
I paid $30 this time, but there was a weird promotion. Preregister and you get 4 free packs of Dark Ascension. So that's a heck of an incentive right there.
Ya a piece of gaming equipment that you probably already have, is generally useless to have extra copies of, and is inferior to other products is real useful:rolleyes:.
Stats About Mythics
-Mythics are on average 40% rarer than pre-mythic rares
(old blocks about 200 rares, Mythic blocks 35+ mythics)
-They are printing more new cards a year not less
(about 665 now vs. 630 in most pre-mythic block)
-To drop the value of a rare by $1 a mythic must go up $2
-In a 3 year time span deck prices doubled.
I am petitioning for the removal of mythic rarity. Sig this to join the cause.
Normally, it's $45 for back-to-back tournaments, but the winnings are slimmer (anywhere from 2-10 packs total).
meat's Trade Corner
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=394009
WOTC stopped all side events at the last pre-release.
surely they are intended for EDH use?
i mean they're all legendary creatures, right?
sounds pretty decent to me, and i don't even play EDH.
It's really not that good. You HAVE to have a sleeved copy of the card with you in case your general gets tucked and I don't know if you've ever tried to play a 5+ person game of EDH on a single table, but there isn't exactly a whole lot of room for unnecessarily large vanity cards.