In with the crowd saying it's probably a ISD block constructed ban.
Doubt we'll see it, but I really wish Jund or U/W in Modern would take some hits given how many are present in Top 8's this Modern season. Probably doesn't seem necessary but Jund at least is by and far obviously the best deck in the format over so many other decks.
Perhaps it's not exactly a hint that Intangible Virtue is on the chopping block, but rather something else that enables tokens. I'm not sure what that could be, though.
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Perhaps it's not exactly a hint that Intangible Virtue is on the chopping block, but rather something else that enables tokens. I'm not sure what that could be, though.
gee, i wonder what else is causing all the token decks to be W/x, is played as a 4-off in every token deck, and is causing half of them to maindeck ray of revelation?
Have half of you even played block constructed since DKA came out? The card is absolutely nuts. Don't kneejerk nerdrage just because it's a ban. This is a much needed ban.
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You've got a rat in your walls, and cheese won't solve anything.
Could be, but the topic creator is right there is a pattern to this sort of thing and well the thing is warping ISD block more than JTMS ever did to Standard.
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You've got a rat in your walls, and cheese won't solve anything.
It's probably safe to say that there will be no Modern or Legacy unbans given that their front is a Block Constructed ban, right?
(That being said, I think they just unrestricted Fact or Fiction in Vintage in the Dec. 20, 2011 bans--that was just overshadowed by the Punishing Fire ban in Modern.)
It's quite clear that it will be banned in ISD block..not many things can beat a brick wall of tokens that threaten to end the game in ~2 attacks. The meta has devolved to keeping intangible virtue off the board or just lose.
gee, i wonder what else is causing all the token decks to be W/x, is played as a 4-off in every token deck, and is causing half of them to maindeck ray of revelation?
That comment was based on my misunderstanding of the ISD block constructed meta. I was thinking of Standard for some reason, whoops.
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It's just ridiculous. Ever since SFM and Jace got banned, every single time there's either a controversial card or 'degenerate' strategy in a format, everyone and their grandmother complains and jumps right on the 'BAN IT NOW' bandwagon. Instead of actually sitting down and thinking of a way to counteract this problem, the community whines and WotC just banhammers it away. Modern is a prime example of that. (Which might as well be Yugioh, but that's a whole different topic..)
That's why this is so absurd. The strategy may be 70% of field in different iterations, but no one is actually trying to stop it. Everyone complains and complains until they get to a breaking point where they just play the same deck as everyone else,
Do you play ISD Block Constructed..........?
No one has been whining. This is a foresight from Wizards, one that I greatly approve of.
The hosers for Virtue; Curse of Death's Hold, Ray of Revelation, Sever the Bloodline, are all blackwhite. Nothing makes for a more degenerate format than when the lead deck is countering itself, aka Jace wars, people running jittes in creatureless decks, etc
It's just ridiculous. Ever since SFM and Jace got banned, every single time there's either a controversial card or 'degenerate' strategy in a format, everyone and their grandmother complains and jumps right on the 'BAN IT NOW' bandwagon. Instead of actually sitting down and thinking of a way to counteract this problem, the community whines and WotC just banhammers it away. Modern is a prime example of that. (Which might as well be Yugioh, but that's a whole different topic..)
No one has been whining. This is a foresight from Wizards, one that I greatly approve of.
I don't think he's ever played Modern either, for that matter, considering the diversity in the format and deck viability enabled in large part due to preemptive bans and the one that followed...
I don't understand... Isn't lingering Souls the real issue? IV was fine in block for months before DKA was released. Aaron F. Mentioned that they had pushed LS because they didn't think Midnight Huanting was good enough. Shouldn't they ban LS instead of IV?
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I don't understand... Isn't lingering Souls the real issue? IV was fine in block for months before DKA was released. Aaron F. Mentioned that they had pushed LS because they didn't think Midnight Huanting was good enough. Shouldn't they ban LS instead of IV?
All that we can gather from the picture is that it seems like Intangible Virtue is going to be banned, and there's probably more coming from Avacyn to produce tokens. Lingering Souls is 4 mana for 4 bodies which is pretty awesome, but making it so they aren't 4 2/2 flying vigilance bodies is a good move, especially so that people aren't running enchantment hate solely for IV.
EDIT: When I'm tired, apparently I confuse mana cost and tokens made.
So how exactly does Curse hose Virtue when in the time it takes to play it you could play 3 more and doesn't strip the vigilance?
Curse doesn't answer virtue by itself. But as part of a deck designed to hose Tokens and Weenie aggro it is quite effective.
Jund can be built to hose tokens, but it is weak against the theoretical field. Also, Jund pilots have told me that they have a hard time configuring to beat both traditional WBg Tokens and the newer WRb Hellrider Tokens.
This card was oppressive if you ever played "real" (old) magic. It was everywhere. You played it or you hated it.
The same applies here for many reasons.
1. The cost is important. 1W is very different than WW. If intangible virtue was WW, it wouldn't be played as much.
2. Vigilance is also important. You can go on the offensive and still maintain your board state. Remember interactivity? That's why you tap to attack. You have to choose, attack and leave myself open, or defend. Vigilance breaks that. People thought Serra Angel was OP back in the day. Why? Vigilance.
3. IMO, the tokens clause seems at first to be a drawback. But the more you look at it, it just really doesnt even matter at all. You obviously build towards it and it just reaches a point where it might as well say, "Creatures you control get +1/+1 and vigilance." Really.
The reason this card is getting banned isn't because it's blatanly OP like Jace. It's getting banned because it's just straight over the curve and provides just a little more power than it should for its cost, Just like like Wild Nacatl. It won't break standard, but it will sure as hell warp Block Constructed. I don't even play block constructed and I can totally see this justified.
This will arguably the best ban Wizards has made in years if Intangible Virtue is indeed banned in Block Constructed.
60% of the meta is Tokens. 20% is Jund anti-tokens. The other 20% are non-viable decks. I haven't seen a meta this bad since the original Mirrodin where everything was Affinity vs. Tooth and Nail.
All someone has to do to make the format a one deck format right now is make a 4C token deck that has all of the following cards in its 75:
It puts it over the top from being a bunch of 1/1's coming at you to vigilant 2/2's or 3/3's that spawn by the dozen
Doubt we'll see it, but I really wish Jund or U/W in Modern would take some hits given how many are present in Top 8's this Modern season. Probably doesn't seem necessary but Jund at least is by and far obviously the best deck in the format over so many other decks.
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gee, i wonder what else is causing all the token decks to be W/x, is played as a 4-off in every token deck, and is causing half of them to maindeck ray of revelation?
Could be, but the topic creator is right there is a pattern to this sort of thing and well the thing is warping ISD block more than JTMS ever did to Standard.
(That being said, I think they just unrestricted Fact or Fiction in Vintage in the Dec. 20, 2011 bans--that was just overshadowed by the Punishing Fire ban in Modern.)
That comment was based on my misunderstanding of the ISD block constructed meta. I was thinking of Standard for some reason, whoops.
Do you play ISD Block Constructed..........?
No one has been whining. This is a foresight from Wizards, one that I greatly approve of.
I don't think he's ever played Modern either, for that matter, considering the diversity in the format and deck viability enabled in large part due to preemptive bans and the one that followed...
(Also known as Xenphire)
But Hellrider Wr Tokens has an okay shot vs. them.
And the Jund Decks would get beaten BADLY by low-creature count control decks - if they existed lol.
Not to mention a 5 mana answer to a 2 mana spell that cancels it out doesn't always get there.
tokens have been so hard pushed in this block that its hardly surprising that there is no competing archetype for block
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All that we can gather from the picture is that it seems like Intangible Virtue is going to be banned, and there's probably more coming from Avacyn to produce tokens. Lingering Souls is 4 mana for 4 bodies which is pretty awesome, but making it so they aren't 4 2/2 flying vigilance bodies is a good move, especially so that people aren't running enchantment hate solely for IV.
EDIT: When I'm tired, apparently I confuse mana cost and tokens made.
Curse doesn't answer virtue by itself. But as part of a deck designed to hose Tokens and Weenie aggro it is quite effective.
Jund can be built to hose tokens, but it is weak against the theoretical field. Also, Jund pilots have told me that they have a hard time configuring to beat both traditional WBg Tokens and the newer WRb Hellrider Tokens.
In Standard? Still not very good.
Current post- Grand Prix KC Modern Postmortem (7/7/13)
Standard vs Block. People seem to keep making this mistake.
I've been playing since the beginning basically (The Dark), and I can totally see intangible virtue getting banned in block. Why?
Crusade
This card was oppressive if you ever played "real" (old) magic. It was everywhere. You played it or you hated it.
The same applies here for many reasons.
1. The cost is important. 1W is very different than WW. If intangible virtue was WW, it wouldn't be played as much.
2. Vigilance is also important. You can go on the offensive and still maintain your board state. Remember interactivity? That's why you tap to attack. You have to choose, attack and leave myself open, or defend. Vigilance breaks that. People thought Serra Angel was OP back in the day. Why? Vigilance.
3. IMO, the tokens clause seems at first to be a drawback. But the more you look at it, it just really doesnt even matter at all. You obviously build towards it and it just reaches a point where it might as well say, "Creatures you control get +1/+1 and vigilance." Really.
The reason this card is getting banned isn't because it's blatanly OP like Jace. It's getting banned because it's just straight over the curve and provides just a little more power than it should for its cost, Just like like Wild Nacatl. It won't break standard, but it will sure as hell warp Block Constructed. I don't even play block constructed and I can totally see this justified.
It will be banned in block constructed
Think of it like this.
60% of the meta is Tokens. 20% is Jund anti-tokens. The other 20% are non-viable decks. I haven't seen a meta this bad since the original Mirrodin where everything was Affinity vs. Tooth and Nail.
All someone has to do to make the format a one deck format right now is make a 4C token deck that has all of the following cards in its 75:
Now you've got a deck that literally has everything. Hooray!
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