My T&N deck was meta'd hardcore back in Mirrodin\Kamigawa standard. I had a swamp and Cranial Extractions in the SB to exile their Sowing Salts or whatever they would bring into game 2. So much fun.
It's still like that as far as I know. At FNM anyway where you know what everyone plays. It's not like this isn't practiced anymore.
I'm not saying its not done its just to me the cards available to hate or prepare to be hated are subpar here and there.
Note: And before someone says "since you play Liquimetal Coating you must hate Ancient Grudge" actually I love it and its the perfect example of what kind of hate cards should be printed.
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Thanks to PurpleD from Left Play Designs for the banner:D
I don't think they should ban lingering souls instead of intangible virtue. Lingering souls is very, very powerful, but without intangible virtue it wouldn't be an auto-include in every deck the way things are now in IBC. Intangible virtue is a narrow card, lingering souls has many uses. So if they banned lingering souls, they'd potentially be hurting more than just token strategies. Whereas banning intangible virtue is only hurting token strategies and certainly isn't nerfing them to oblivion either. Lingering souls wasn't the only card from DKA that put tokens over the top: there's also, you know, that Sorin guy for B/W and the rider from hell for Boros.
In fact, Boros tokens doesn't even really need intangible virtue to wreck face, which makes me a bit concerned that banning Intangible Virtue will just make the field all Boros tokens instead of at least a few different flavors of tokens. Guess we'll just have to wait and see.
can someone post a link rather than an image, otherwise this is all bull****.
No, because all we have is the image off the mothership. We'll have a link in about 3 1/2 hours. There's no bull**** here, though; that image is official.
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[box][box][size=3][b]CARDNAME[/b][/size] [float=right][mana]MANACOST[/mana][/float][/box]
[box][b]TYPE — SUBTYPE [float=right][color="RARITYCOLOUR"]{RARITY}[/color][/b][/float][/box][box]RULES TEXT
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No, because all we have is the image off the mothership. We'll have a link in about 3 1/2 hours. There's no bull**** here, though; that image is official.
The announcement will be here in a day and 3 hours, sadly It's the 20th when the B&R list is announced.
This thread is entirely speculation on the image and how INN block looks as a format right now.
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I don't play block constructed, but I understand the rationale behind banning or not banning something. If a deck/card is taking over the format, where you either have to play the card/deck or hate against it, that's bad. But I think the big kicker is tournament attendance. Wizards noticed that attendance to Standard tournaments was plummeting, and I assume it was because people were sick of Caw-Blade all the time.
Looking at that daily list someone posted a few pages back, yeah, I see a lot of Intangible Virtue. And the lists that don't have it, I see token-hate. What I don't know is, what's attendance like for those events? Up or down? If people don't play, people aren't buying Event Tickets, and Wizards's bottom line suffers.
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Currently playing:
Standard: Superfriends!
Legacy: Nic Fit / Pod
Pauper: Delvar; Tron; Flicker Stuff
Commander: Riku ("Some weird doubple spell thing happened"); Keranos ("I did a Gatherer search for 'random' and 'flip a coin.'"); Superfriends!
I'm play block only on MTGO and that would change the format... A LOT !
But they don't absolutely NEED to band the card, if they make a new "Ratchet Bomb" type of card available to all color, that would help fight the token madness.
I'm play block only on MTGO and that would change the format... A LOT !
But they don't absolutely NEED to band the card, if they make a new "Ratchet Bomb" type of card available to all color, that would help fight the token madness.
except AVR has already hit the prints, and banning the card shows they didn't understand its power when designing and developing the block
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Thanks to Rivenor for the signature and XenoNinja for the Avi!
I don't play block constructed, but I understand the rationale behind banning or not banning something. If a deck/card is taking over the format, where you either have to play the card/deck or hate against it, that's bad. But I think the big kicker is tournament attendance. Wizards noticed that attendance to Standard tournaments was plummeting, and I assume it was because people were sick of Caw-Blade all the time.
Looking at that daily list someone posted a few pages back, yeah, I see a lot of Intangible Virtue. And the lists that don't have it, I see token-hate. What I don't know is, what's attendance like for those events? Up or down? If people don't play, people aren't buying Event Tickets, and Wizards's bottom line suffers.
I can't speak for everyone but I played a lot of block and just got bored facing the mirror for 3 rounds then 4th round MAYBE facing a different type of token deck(I played WBg tokens). So I stopped playing the dailies.
I can't speak for everyone but I played a lot of block and just got bored facing the mirror for 3 rounds then 4th round MAYBE facing a different type of token deck(I played WBg tokens). So I stopped playing the dailies.
Yeah pretty much this.
I haven't played block constructed as much since DKA came out. Its boring playing against tokens 3 of 4 rounds.
I agree that Hellrider is just as big of a problem....if not bigger. Right now it's all token decks, but half of these are R/W and the R/W human/token decks don't even usually play Intangible Virtue. Now that these decks won't have to play enchantment hate they're going to be even stronger. It seems like if Hellrider isn't banned as well, everyone who was playing other token versions will just move in on the R/W strategy.
The format really does need more instant speed removal for cards like Hellrider, since we're pretty much relegated to just Brimstone Volley and Victim of Night that can kill Hellrider at instant speed before attacks come in.
I agree that Hellrider is just as big of a problem....if not bigger. Right now it's all token decks, but half of these are R/W and the R/W human/token decks don't even usually play Intangible Virtue. Now that these decks won't have to play enchantment hate they're going to be even stronger. It seems like if Hellrider isn't banned as well, everyone who was playing other token versions will just move in on the R/W strategy.
The format really does need more instant speed removal for cards like Hellrider, since we're pretty much relegated to just Brimstone Volley and Victim of Night that can kill Hellrider at instant speed before attacks come in.
Hellrider doesn't need to be banned though, because a large set can easily have all the requisite answers.
Lingering Souls and Virtue are trickier.
I could see both getting the axe tonight.
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I agree that Hellrider is just as big of a problem....if not bigger. Right now it's all token decks, but half of these are R/W and the R/W human/token decks don't even usually play Intangible Virtue. Now that these decks won't have to play enchantment hate they're going to be even stronger. It seems like if Hellrider isn't banned as well, everyone who was playing other token versions will just move in on the R/W strategy.
The format really does need more instant speed removal for cards like Hellrider, since we're pretty much relegated to just Brimstone Volley and Victim of Night that can kill Hellrider at instant speed before attacks come in.
Hellrider wasn't that big of a problem before, because Virtue actually kept it in check somewhat. It allowed two tokens to block and kill it profitably. I always played BWg tokens, and it was only scary if I didn't have a Virtue. I can see Hellrider becoming even more oppressive now.
It makes a ton of sense to ban Intangible Virtue. Intangible Virtue is a card that is quite under the curve as far as Glorious Anthem effects go. It's supposed to be a "conditional" global pump enchantment but given just how hard tokens have been pushed in the block it's really not conditional at all. Honor of the Pure is restricted to white creatures only and doesn't provide vigilance. That's a significant drop-off in power level.
Looks like Wizards forgot to put a powerful stopgap answer to tokens like they did with Grafdigger's Cage dealing with flashback/Pod.
Looks like Wizards forgot to put a powerful stopgap answer to tokens like they did with Grafdigger's Cage dealing with flashback/Pod.
Didn't they admit Lingering Souls was a bit of a mistake because they didn't think Midnight Haunting could be good enough for constructed so they made a better version and that turned out to be untrue?
Yeah thats kind of a slap in the face from development. Naw, you're not allowed to have any fun in block or standard with combo or original deck builds, but we'll super duper push one strategy and leave it unanswered in block to the point we need to ban stuff left and right.
If this was their approach, they should never have printed the anti-fun cage, and just waited to ban anything that cropped up.
It seems approximately this time both Scars and Zendikar block during their respective seasons saw more activity with block constructed than Innistrad is.
I am not experienced in the format whatsoever, perhaps this card shows a significant win % above all other block archetypes?
Three of the top four at SCG this weekend all had Lingering Souls. Six of the top 16 at SCG had Lingering Souls (in comparison, 6 of the top 16 at SCG Legacy had Stoneforge Mystic).
75% of the top 4 @ SCG were playing Lingering Souls. Why? Because the card is bonkers when it comes to card advantage. You just can't argue that. Even Finkle knew this and played it as part of his PT DKA venture.
If they ban Virtue, people will still play Lingering Souls. If they ban Lingering Souls, hardly anyone will play Virtue...
I'm not saying its not done its just to me the cards available to hate or prepare to be hated are subpar here and there.
Note: And before someone says "since you play Liquimetal Coating you must hate Ancient Grudge" actually I love it and its the perfect example of what kind of hate cards should be printed.
Thanks to PurpleD from Left Play Designs for the banner:D
In fact, Boros tokens doesn't even really need intangible virtue to wreck face, which makes me a bit concerned that banning Intangible Virtue will just make the field all Boros tokens instead of at least a few different flavors of tokens. Guess we'll just have to wait and see.
No, because all we have is the image off the mothership. We'll have a link in about 3 1/2 hours. There's no bull**** here, though; that image is official.
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The announcement will be here in a day and 3 hours, sadly It's the 20th when the B&R list is announced.
This thread is entirely speculation on the image and how INN block looks as a format right now.
Herp derp, I didn't check my MTG calendar. Too much going on in IRL atm.
My post still stands,just add "a day and" in there
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Yeah but curse of deaths hold becomes a much better card vs the token decks. The turn 2 IV won't be able to negate the turn 5 counter
Looking at that daily list someone posted a few pages back, yeah, I see a lot of Intangible Virtue. And the lists that don't have it, I see token-hate. What I don't know is, what's attendance like for those events? Up or down? If people don't play, people aren't buying Event Tickets, and Wizards's bottom line suffers.
Currently playing:
Standard: Superfriends!
Legacy: Nic Fit / Pod
Pauper: Delvar; Tron; Flicker Stuff
Commander: Riku ("Some weird doubple spell thing happened"); Keranos ("I did a Gatherer search for 'random' and 'flip a coin.'"); Superfriends!
But they don't absolutely NEED to band the card, if they make a new "Ratchet Bomb" type of card available to all color, that would help fight the token madness.
except AVR has already hit the prints, and banning the card shows they didn't understand its power when designing and developing the block
Thanks to Rivenor for the signature and XenoNinja for the Avi!
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I can't speak for everyone but I played a lot of block and just got bored facing the mirror for 3 rounds then 4th round MAYBE facing a different type of token deck(I played WBg tokens). So I stopped playing the dailies.
Yeah pretty much this.
I haven't played block constructed as much since DKA came out. Its boring playing against tokens 3 of 4 rounds.
Hellrider is the most powerful and oppressive card in the format, simply because there aren't many instant-speed answers to it.
The format really does need more instant speed removal for cards like Hellrider, since we're pretty much relegated to just Brimstone Volley and Victim of Night that can kill Hellrider at instant speed before attacks come in.
Hellrider doesn't need to be banned though, because a large set can easily have all the requisite answers.
Lingering Souls and Virtue are trickier.
I could see both getting the axe tonight.
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Hellrider wasn't that big of a problem before, because Virtue actually kept it in check somewhat. It allowed two tokens to block and kill it profitably. I always played BWg tokens, and it was only scary if I didn't have a Virtue. I can see Hellrider becoming even more oppressive now.
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Looks like Wizards forgot to put a powerful stopgap answer to tokens like they did with Grafdigger's Cage dealing with flashback/Pod.
Didn't they admit Lingering Souls was a bit of a mistake because they didn't think Midnight Haunting could be good enough for constructed so they made a better version and that turned out to be untrue?
If this was their approach, they should never have printed the anti-fun cage, and just waited to ban anything that cropped up.
I am not experienced in the format whatsoever, perhaps this card shows a significant win % above all other block archetypes?
Three of the top four at SCG this weekend all had Lingering Souls. Six of the top 16 at SCG had Lingering Souls (in comparison, 6 of the top 16 at SCG Legacy had Stoneforge Mystic).
75% of the top 4 @ SCG were playing Lingering Souls. Why? Because the card is bonkers when it comes to card advantage. You just can't argue that. Even Finkle knew this and played it as part of his PT DKA venture.
If they ban Virtue, people will still play Lingering Souls. If they ban Lingering Souls, hardly anyone will play Virtue...
However, everyone is talking about Block Constructed, which is a different format from Standard.