Well, well. Sorin certainly delivers. Junk Tokens could be a very interesting deck. He'll never be very expensive because of his mana cost and how he's only very good in aggro, but in the decks he's good in...he'll be very good. But let me give Secrets of the Dead some love, because oh my god, the chances of me making a Burning Vengeance deck just shot up from 97 percent to 178 percent. THAT will certainly be fun.
Same here; I grabbed a playset of Vengeance because I had a feeling DKA might open it up a bit. This opens it up a lot.
He doesn't seem too relevant with the backup he's getting from Scars block and INN apart from his obvious good buddies Elspeth Tirel and Intangible Virtue...
Drawing a card and shocking something off a flashbacked ANYTHING is making Burning Vengeance look like an actual deck.
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The possible thing I can see is that if B/W is going to work, it is going to need a much better mana base. With just 1 enemy dual, that POS Shimmering grotto, a lot of the powerful stuff is either double black or white... not sure how u can consistently put him out. Granted outside of Standard he will be great with the other mana-fixing.
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To the people that say that a card needs to be a higher rarity because of Limited... I hate you guys so much. I present to you with this.
Within ten minutes of this card being spoiled, three people in this thread claimed this would be a $50 planeswalker. While one intelligent person said not to buy them at $50. Does anyone realize that not even Jace is $50 right now? Instead of telling StarCity and Co. what price you will buy the card for just discuss the card, and buy it at the price you think it's worth. Every set doesn't need a $50 card, and it doesn't need to be a planeswalker.
No no, let the Raving idiots spike the price. Irrationally over expensive planeswalkers=trade bait for older good money cards that don't plummet in price becasue it rotates/people relized they over reacted.
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The EDH stax primer When you absolutely, positively got to kill every permanent in the room, accept no substitutes.
Sorin is definitely solid. People are right to say that he doesn't have a home, but I think we can safely assume he will make his own soon enough.
Any deck with removal, Liliana, Elspeth 2.0, Gideon. BW Walkers might be a deck.....
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Regarding Stoneforge Mystic
Quote from oranges2 »
This guy, would either eat up several turns worth of mana to get a slow permanent that relies on your already have some board presence (after wasting said mana), or dies without generating any advantage.
If Sorin created Avacyn, does that increase the chances of Avacyn being B/W herself?
Not necessarily, since the story says Sorin created her to be a pure force of protection. (Though what she's like when she comes back is anybody's guess.)
I agree with you about how being partly white, this contradicts him being a vampire.
That's kind of the point, though. Everywhere else, he's purely a vampire, and he doesn't care about others' petty morality. Innistrad, though, is the place he was born and the only place he was ever a human, and so he backslides into whatever little part of himself is still human underneath when he's there (just like people who move away from their hometown start to subconsciously go back to old habits when they visit home.)
I think people are underrating putting out a constant flow of lifelink vamps.
Yeah; there's a lot of reasons Sorin might not work out in general, but the addition of the lifelink (compared to Elspeth) on that ability is very significant, especially in a situation where you can get any sort of pump going on the tokens.
Doing good things doesn't make you White... Seriously, the Church of Tal was mono white and their whole thing was abusing demagoguery to commit genocide against mages.
This is true. However, the way they describe Sorin, he does "good" out of a sense of obligation, for the good of the community. His motivation for what he does on the plane of Innistrad is not motivated by personal benefit at all; I'm not familiar with the Eldrazi storyline--what was his motivation there?
Sorin is a good card... I think he can be put into a Esper Blade style of deck....
He will sell for 40-50 dollars then slowly trickling back down to the 15-20 dollar range.
He will see play in Standard eventually and he will wreck face... 4 casting cost lifelink 2/1 token generator that can steal your creatures and planeswalkers. I can dig it...
This is true. However, the way they describe Sorin, he does "good" out of a sense of obligation, for the good of the community. His motivation for what he does on the plane of Innistrad is not motivated by personal benefit at all; I'm not familiar with the Eldrazi storyline--what was his motivation there?
The Eldrazi would wipe out the multiverse, and he likes being a planeswalker.
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Regarding Stoneforge Mystic
Quote from oranges2 »
This guy, would either eat up several turns worth of mana to get a slow permanent that relies on your already have some board presence (after wasting said mana), or dies without generating any advantage.
T1: Champ of Parish
T2: Gather the Townsfolk, attack with 3/3 Champ
T3: Mirran, attack with 4/4 champ and two 1/1s
T4: Sorin, -2, attack with 5/4 champ, 3/2 mirran, and 2 2/1s.
Maybe not the best set up for Sorin, but something along those lines.
Really? After the whole Jace the Mindsculptor debauchle they decide that a 3-turn PW nuke+reanimator is a good idea? Yeah....I'm sure this'll hit the ban lists real quick.
You can't ban this card. It doesn't do four things in the best color and then win the game when it feels like it.
Sorin is a solid aggro-walker. They're usually not great, but we'll see. Nobody here is denying the power of his lifelinking tokens. It's the emblem that dulls the card.
Sorin only returns the creatures he kills, not the planeswalkers. People are missing that point.
And how do you figure this?
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Regarding Stoneforge Mystic
Quote from oranges2 »
This guy, would either eat up several turns worth of mana to get a slow permanent that relies on your already have some board presence (after wasting said mana), or dies without generating any advantage.
I'm going to say it now, and if you want to quote me, this should be the official quote from me.
Sorin is good, he won't be 50$ good or what not, but he'll easily retain 20$ unlike other walkers and he'll see play in various decks, and not just specific niche builds like Tezz was forced into. His second ability makes him want to be in aggressive decks, while his first ability is good for any deck and primarily control, as such he can go into several decks and be fine, as such he'll be as good or better than Garruk is.
Edit: Also don't kid yourself, Sorin is nowhere near ban worthy.
Same here; I grabbed a playset of Vengeance because I had a feeling DKA might open it up a bit. This opens it up a lot.
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Drawing a card and shocking something off a flashbacked ANYTHING is making Burning Vengeance look like an actual deck.
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No no, let the Raving idiots spike the price. Irrationally over expensive planeswalkers=trade bait for older good money cards that don't plummet in price becasue it rotates/people relized they over reacted.
The EDH stax primer
When you absolutely, positively got to kill every permanent in the room, accept no substitutes.
Any deck with removal, Liliana, Elspeth 2.0, Gideon. BW Walkers might be a deck.....
Rules Advisor as of 4/23/10
Regarding Stoneforge Mystic
Shoe in for B/W Tokens and B/W Control of any kinds
I am sorry, it was my mistake. You said
And finally it's WB with the same art as that sleeves had. We knew it would be WB a few weeks ago, why so many people are surprised, I don't know.
Not necessarily, since the story says Sorin created her to be a pure force of protection. (Though what she's like when she comes back is anybody's guess.)
That's kind of the point, though. Everywhere else, he's purely a vampire, and he doesn't care about others' petty morality. Innistrad, though, is the place he was born and the only place he was ever a human, and so he backslides into whatever little part of himself is still human underneath when he's there (just like people who move away from their hometown start to subconsciously go back to old habits when they visit home.)
Yeah; there's a lot of reasons Sorin might not work out in general, but the addition of the lifelink (compared to Elspeth) on that ability is very significant, especially in a situation where you can get any sort of pump going on the tokens.
This is true. However, the way they describe Sorin, he does "good" out of a sense of obligation, for the good of the community. His motivation for what he does on the plane of Innistrad is not motivated by personal benefit at all; I'm not familiar with the Eldrazi storyline--what was his motivation there?
He will sell for 40-50 dollars then slowly trickling back down to the 15-20 dollar range.
He will see play in Standard eventually and he will wreck face... 4 casting cost lifelink 2/1 token generator that can steal your creatures and planeswalkers. I can dig it...
The Eldrazi would wipe out the multiverse, and he likes being a planeswalker.
Rules Advisor as of 4/23/10
Regarding Stoneforge Mystic
T2: Gather the Townsfolk, attack with 3/3 Champ
T3: Mirran, attack with 4/4 champ and two 1/1s
T4: Sorin, -2, attack with 5/4 champ, 3/2 mirran, and 2 2/1s.
Maybe not the best set up for Sorin, but something along those lines.
Hey the reason why everyone went to WU humans over WG or WR or any other freaking color combo is basically Geist of Saint Traft.
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You can't ban this card. It doesn't do four things in the best color and then win the game when it feels like it.
Sorin is a solid aggro-walker. They're usually not great, but we'll see. Nobody here is denying the power of his lifelinking tokens. It's the emblem that dulls the card.
His ultimate would have to cost like 20 then lol.
Nice and simple design! A Playset for me please!
Now we have to wait what the blue card with red flashback cost is....
Huh? It says each card. Not each creature.
No, he gets the planeswalkers too. It says "Return each card" not creature
Some people just love Jace a little too much
And how do you figure this?
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Regarding Stoneforge Mystic
What I don't understand, though, is why everyone is talking about Sorin when he's probably only the second-best card in this thread....
Sorin is good, he won't be 50$ good or what not, but he'll easily retain 20$ unlike other walkers and he'll see play in various decks, and not just specific niche builds like Tezz was forced into. His second ability makes him want to be in aggressive decks, while his first ability is good for any deck and primarily control, as such he can go into several decks and be fine, as such he'll be as good or better than Garruk is.
Edit: Also don't kid yourself, Sorin is nowhere near ban worthy.
Secrets is also insane, but having Ray being reprinted will hurt it's playablity.
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