Magic 2010 was the first core set to include new cards. At the time, it seemed like a really good idea, allowing them to print a bunch of new, more generic spells and creatures that wouldn't see print in an expansion. The idea was to build a better bridge from other fantasy to Magic by taking out odd creature types like Aven, Kavu and Cephilids and replacing them with known creatures like Trolls, Merfolk and Elves.
Now it seems more and more that they just really want to force veterans to buy the product too by putting a bunch of rare staples in there. It's annoying because the stated reason for the change should allow them to recycle the same (or similar) cards year to year. Some change is good to keep Standard fresh, but when it's obviously just a money grab, I get frustrated.
That's the way I remember things back in the old days. Now, a core set is less cord and more stuff you have to buy and end up getting a bunch of stuff you already have.
I'm note saying a Core Set should have no new cards, but dang it, I really wish we could shift back towards those good old days. I really am getting sick of this new core set every year nonsense.
Let's take the other tack then. If people are fine with a few new cards, would you be happy with 2 or 3 new cards in a core set, but they're mythic and powerful, so really hard to find? How many copies of Naturalize or Stormfront Pegasus do you really want/need?
It's better to have a larger pool of new cards, even if you don't care about all of them, because at least when you don't open that splashy new planeswalker, you don't say "Great, my 40th Wrath of God..." You at least get something new.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
She wants a ride on the pony, dude.
Mafia Stats
Kill shot: BB
Issue with my shooting? Please visit my helpdesk and help me learn to aim!
Let's take the other tack then. If people are fine with a few new cards, would you be happy with 2 or 3 new cards in a core set, but they're mythic and powerful, so really hard to find? How many copies of Naturalize or Stormfront Pegasus do you really want/need?
It's better to have a larger pool of new cards, even if you don't care about all of them, because at least when you don't open that splashy new planeswalker, you don't say "Great, my 40th Wrath of God..." You at least get something new.
Let me say this. From a business perspective (I run my own business) it makes no sense to sell a core set with no new cards. You'll kill sales. The only people who will buy them are the new players. The old timers won't even look at the cards.
So now you're left with a few options with each one presenting its own little dilemma.
Let's say you make a core set every 3 years and each core set is almost a complete rotation with only a few essentials (doom blade, mana leak, incinerate, etc.) reprinted.
You end up with such a dull standard format because you're seeing the same cards year after year (with the exception of the expansions) that you're going to have a huge drop in interest. So that's not really an option.
As I already said, making only a few changes from year to year, from a business standpoint, isn't an option either because it will kill sales.
What else? Well, you could print a completely brand new core set every 2 years, meaning ZERO reprints. The problem with that is that you're going to lose a lot of staples. And if they don't eventually reprint spells like counterspell and they take out mana leak, what are you going to use for counter magic?
So that's not an option either. Some staples you really need to keep at least until you find something similar enough to replace it. This puts a great strain on the R&D team to keep coming up with new ideas, as if it's not hard enough coming out with 3 expansions every year.
Point is, I don't see a viable solution to the problem that is going to both make the players happy and the company money.
Let's take the other tack then. If people are fine with a few new cards, would you be happy with 2 or 3 new cards in a core set, but they're mythic and powerful, so really hard to find? How many copies of Naturalize or Stormfront Pegasus do you really want/need?
As a long time customer/player, I would be releaved not to be compelled to buy another Core Set and instead in your example just buy playsets of the 2-3 new cards.
I like the idea of long term players having the core set. "Yeah, I've collected the Core. When they add a few cards to it, I trade for them or buy the playset."
Maybe every 2-3 years they do a larger overhaul, but this current system is nuts. We need to take it back to the way it used to be.
It's better to have a larger pool of new cards, even if you don't care about all of them, because at least when you don't open that splashy new planeswalker, you don't say "Great, my 40th Wrath of God..." You at least get something new.
I'd rather have 4 Wrath of Gods than a smattering of $1.00 rares where I don't even have complete playsets of each. 40 is a bit of an exaggeration. Actually, it is more than a bit.
You seem to like the idea of perpetually needing to buy cards, and those cards perpetually being cast aside for new ones. Why do you think we have so many people compalining about unplayable $1.00 rares and 60% of the commons uncommons never seeing play? Why is that? It's because when the company feels compelled to create so many new cards with such intense frequency and volume, they just have to make a butt-load of filler.
If we had a more stable, constant Core Set, Wizards could work to making it so that the vast majority of the cards within it were playable. Would you rather have a new Core Set of largely unplayable worthless cards, or a relatively unchanging core set of largely awesome, playable cards?
The expansion block sets of which we get 3 a year are for new cards and variety. We should have a stable base. I think the goal for M13 and beyond should be, "Make most, if not all, of these cards great and playable."
the old base sets were not released every year and the constant reprinting of certain cards (ie birds, painlands, wrath ect.) in set after set were not at all good for their value. also to be fair the old base sets were seemingly the same 10 rares as the last one filled out with all the cards you didn't want from the sets they were taking cards from. at least nowadays there is some effort put into these sets as both a draftable entity and as a rotating constructed format.
for those of us who were actually playing when these old base sets were released the
m10 concept is a refreshing and necessary change. the grass was not greener on the other side.
as an extra aside 4th, 5th, 6th, and 7th were AWFUL and were much to blame for competitive players bashing the base sets because well they plain sucked.
While that's true, nowhere near as many new cards as with an expansion. I don't know. For me, it's kind of a let down when I just got my 40th doom blade and I've only opened 4 packs of m12.
And to the other poster, yes, 4th, 5th, etc. were horrible core sets. But the overall power level of most cards back then was meh. Sure, you had some exceptions with the Urza's block and some other stuff around that time and shortly thereafter, but for the most part, the really overpowered cards (power 9, dual lands, etc.) were no longer being printed and what was left, for the core stuff, was pretty so-so. It was the nature of what it was.
For the record, I wasn't excited about new core sets back then either. Especially back then when there was almost nothing new.
But to have to go out and buy all these cards for just 95 new cards (not even a small expansion's worth like Fallen Empires) just seems to me to be a waste of money.
Maybe every 2-3 years they do a larger overhaul, but this current system is nuts. We need to take it back to the way it used to be.
I'd rather have 4 Wrath of Gods than a smattering of $1.00 rares where I don't even have complete playsets of each. 40 is a bit of an exaggeration. Actually, it is more than a bit.
You seem to like the idea of perpetually needing to buy cards, and those cards perpetually being cast aside for new ones. Why do you think we have so many people compalining about unplayable $1.00 rares and 60% of the commons uncommons never seeing play? Why is that? It's because when the company feels compelled to create so many new cards with such intense frequency and volume, they just have to make a butt-load of filler.
Yes, I did exaggerate a bit when I said 40, it was just the number that I happened to type in. I really just meant "a bit more than you needed".
Its not that I want to perpetually need to buy cards. It's why I like the current set up. What cards in 2012 did we need that weren't in a previous set? Azure Mage or Jade Mage? Garruk or Jace? Except for a handful of cards, most have been printed in a previous set. I have Shocks from Onslaught (when I started playing), so I can play those if I don't happen to pull any in M12 and I need red burn. I would assume if you need Gideons, you've got them from ROE. At least the new cards give you a reason to draft with the core set, and if you really don't want to, singles are always an option too!
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
She wants a ride on the pony, dude.
Mafia Stats
Kill shot: BB
Issue with my shooting? Please visit my helpdesk and help me learn to aim!
While that's true, nowhere near as many new cards as with an expansion. I don't know. For me, it's kind of a let down when I just got my 40th doom blade and I've only opened 4 packs of m12.
Part of it is seeing how the Core Set shakes up the new meta. They use it to drop hints as well as help "fix" things that needed to be shaken up a bit. This was always the case though. Back when we had a Core every other year, it was always fun to speculate what some things meant. Ravnica was rumored to be Multicolor... and suddenly BAM we had all ten painlands appear in 8th (right before RAV was released). Was pretty exciting!
Also, it was usually the place where they printed the most basic version of an effect (dual lands, tutors, etc), so if you needed something specific, the core set was a good place to look for it.
Also, it was usually the place where they printed the most basic version of an effect (dual lands, tutors, etc), so if you needed something specific, the core set was a good place to look for it.
They can still print interesting cards, Doubling Chant, Grand Abolisher, Rune-Scarred Demon and Sphinx of Oogaley-Boogaley.
And we have the most basic version of dual lands and other effects. Angel's Mercy, Doom Blade and Kite Shield. The core set still has all of what you wanted.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
She wants a ride on the pony, dude.
Mafia Stats
Kill shot: BB
Issue with my shooting? Please visit my helpdesk and help me learn to aim!
What are you people complaining about here? Wizards makes cards for you and you just don't appreciate it. I wanna say something. You know what, I want 40 doom blades. In fact, I bought m11 *just because of doom blade*. I like stormfront pegasus. Stormfront pegasus is a fine card. I remember playing with storm crow and being happy with that. Some cards aren't made for you. Get over it. Someone else likes that card. I play magic because I enjoy the fantasy element. I can get my 40th doom blade and be happy with that because I have 1000 other cards I can play with. Take Thraben Purebloods. This is probably one of the worst cards in innistrad. But you know what, it's and important card, it's COOL, and I like it. I would play it just to see the look on your face when you die from it. Theres a reason wizards prints cards, and its not to appease you.
They can still print interesting cards, Doubling Chant, Grand Abolisher, Rune-Scarred Demon and Sphinx of Oogaley-Boogaley.
And we have the most basic version of dual lands and other effects. Angel's Mercy, Doom Blade and Kite Shield. The core set still has all of what you wanted.
The cards you mentioned are interesting for you (maybe), but are not of the type of the cards I mentioned. I like to think myself a bit of a Johnny, and the cards you propose don't really do anything that can be abused or broken.
In 10th edition, there were more cards that just bent the rules, creating opportunities for weird interactions. We also had all dual lands in the core, not just the allied versions. The current push of creatures and the reduction of the number of cards per set is making the game considerably less fun for me. Inclusion of mechanics like bloodthirst increases this problem.
Let me say this. From a business perspective (I run my own business) it makes no sense to sell a core set with no new cards. You'll kill sales. The only people who will buy them are the new players. The old timers won't even look at the cards.
So now you're left with a few options with each one presenting its own little dilemma.
Let's say you make a core set every 3 years and each core set is almost a complete rotation with only a few essentials (doom blade, mana leak, incinerate, etc.) reprinted.
You end up with such a dull standard format because you're seeing the same cards year after year (with the exception of the expansions) that you're going to have a huge drop in interest. So that's not really an option.
As I already said, making only a few changes from year to year, from a business standpoint, isn't an option either because it will kill sales.
What else? Well, you could print a completely brand new core set every 2 years, meaning ZERO reprints. The problem with that is that you're going to lose a lot of staples. And if they don't eventually reprint spells like counterspell and they take out mana leak, what are you going to use for counter magic?
So that's not an option either. Some staples you really need to keep at least until you find something similar enough to replace it. This puts a great strain on the R&D team to keep coming up with new ideas, as if it's not hard enough coming out with 3 expansions every year.
Point is, I don't see a viable solution to the problem that is going to both make the players happy and the company money.
This made the most sense to me. There are only so many options, and I'm sure the route they went with made the most sense at the end of the day. I think Wizards wanted a set to tie the blocks together that they could tinker with every year, and introduce "neutral" powerful cards (everything from Baneslayer in M10 to the titans in M11/12) to make Standard more versatile. Not to mention, it allows them to keep vanilla dual lands in Standard and keep their price down, AND allows them to print block specific lands that are more flavorful.
The way they do it, they can concentrate more flavor into the blocks (just look at Innistrad) without diluting it by being forced to shoehorn in the stuff they throw in the core sets.
I think that was a long-winded way of saying that I approve of how they do it, and I look forward to the annual core sets more than I did the previous versions or really almost anything else except the drop of a brand new block.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
For those scientifically inclined, check this out. Some interesting points for you to consider.
Yes, I did exaggerate a bit when I said 40, it was just the number that I happened to type in. I really just meant "a bit more than you needed".
Its not that I want to perpetually need to buy cards. It's why I like the current set up. What cards in 2012 did we need that weren't in a previous set? Azure Mage or Jade Mage? Garruk or Jace? Except for a handful of cards, most have been printed in a previous set. I have Shocks from Onslaught (when I started playing), so I can play those if I don't happen to pull any in M12 and I need red burn. I would assume if you need Gideons, you've got them from ROE. At least the new cards give you a reason to draft with the core set, and if you really don't want to, singles are always an option too!
What about those who didnt play Onslaught or ROE? are they to pay the overpriced costs of them "nolonger in print"?
Core sets are great, brings more new players etc etc
What about those who didnt play Onslaught or ROE? are they to pay the overpriced costs of them "nolonger in print"?
Core sets are great, brings more new players etc etc
That's my point. For commons, which you'll get a lot of, if you have older shocks, then you're set, but if you don't you can easily get with the core set. The point is that the cards you NEED to play are usually available from past sets, so there's little point to complaining about them constantly printing new card when a majority of the cards being played are at least from an older set, or for those that don't have them are available again.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
She wants a ride on the pony, dude.
Mafia Stats
Kill shot: BB
Issue with my shooting? Please visit my helpdesk and help me learn to aim!
I dont know why people play standard and complain of too many new cards. Maybe Standard is not for you.
M12, or Core Sets in General is exciting for me as it makes cards cheaper. the reprints of M10 duals, planeswalkers , baneslayer, and titans made them all drop in price. Why complain of having too many doomblades or shocks? They are useful cards after all. At least they are dirt cheap now and you can save money for the Rares you need.
I am always excited about core sets. Usually I either love or hate a block set but Core sets are always great..........at least from 2010 onward.
A few things I HOPE that they bring back
Darksteel collosus, Lighting bolt, and Knights. After 2011 Knights just........died. I used to run a great 2010,2011 Mono white Knights/equpment deck but once 2010 went out it took a major hit and then 2011 went out and it was gone completly. and My RDW deck (always have at least one in standard) is much less effective now that Lighting bolt, Ball Lighting and such are out.
Also Core sets tend to be more balanced than blocks.
I love drafting/sealed in Core Sets. It brings me back to the old skool of playing when it wasn't all about the complex mechanics and crazy card interactions. It's such a base level of game play that we really don't see every day. It's just nice to have a break!
I love Sealed in Core sets as well, because you can sometimes get away with simply playing all your rares and hoping for the best. But I am not very successful at Sealed XD.
It's because when the company feels compelled to create so many new cards with such intense frequency and volume, they just have to make a butt-load of filler. I think the goal for M13 and beyond should be, "Make most, if not all, of these cards great and playable."
You mean like how the expansion sets aren't mostly Limited filler and are made of mostly, if not all, cards that are great and playable?
I don't think core sets are necessarily better or worse for limited. A limited format is only bad/not fun to me if it is too linear. Scars and M12 were like that because of infect and M12 was just too skewed to aggro decks. M11 was good though.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Magic 2010 was the first core set to include new cards. At the time, it seemed like a really good idea, allowing them to print a bunch of new, more generic spells and creatures that wouldn't see print in an expansion. The idea was to build a better bridge from other fantasy to Magic by taking out odd creature types like Aven, Kavu and Cephilids and replacing them with known creatures like Trolls, Merfolk and Elves.
Now it seems more and more that they just really want to force veterans to buy the product too by putting a bunch of rare staples in there. It's annoying because the stated reason for the change should allow them to recycle the same (or similar) cards year to year. Some change is good to keep Standard fresh, but when it's obviously just a money grab, I get frustrated.
I'm note saying a Core Set should have no new cards, but dang it, I really wish we could shift back towards those good old days. I really am getting sick of this new core set every year nonsense.
How To Keep Your FOIL Cards From Curling: http://youtu.be/QTmubrS8VnI
The Best Deck Boxes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEwgLph_Pjk
The Best Binders: http://youtu.be/H5IauASYWjk
It's better to have a larger pool of new cards, even if you don't care about all of them, because at least when you don't open that splashy new planeswalker, you don't say "Great, my 40th Wrath of God..." You at least get something new.
Mafia Stats
Kill shot: BB
Issue with my shooting? Please visit my helpdesk and help me learn to aim!
Let me say this. From a business perspective (I run my own business) it makes no sense to sell a core set with no new cards. You'll kill sales. The only people who will buy them are the new players. The old timers won't even look at the cards.
So now you're left with a few options with each one presenting its own little dilemma.
Let's say you make a core set every 3 years and each core set is almost a complete rotation with only a few essentials (doom blade, mana leak, incinerate, etc.) reprinted.
You end up with such a dull standard format because you're seeing the same cards year after year (with the exception of the expansions) that you're going to have a huge drop in interest. So that's not really an option.
As I already said, making only a few changes from year to year, from a business standpoint, isn't an option either because it will kill sales.
What else? Well, you could print a completely brand new core set every 2 years, meaning ZERO reprints. The problem with that is that you're going to lose a lot of staples. And if they don't eventually reprint spells like counterspell and they take out mana leak, what are you going to use for counter magic?
So that's not an option either. Some staples you really need to keep at least until you find something similar enough to replace it. This puts a great strain on the R&D team to keep coming up with new ideas, as if it's not hard enough coming out with 3 expansions every year.
Point is, I don't see a viable solution to the problem that is going to both make the players happy and the company money.
As a long time customer/player, I would be releaved not to be compelled to buy another Core Set and instead in your example just buy playsets of the 2-3 new cards.
I like the idea of long term players having the core set. "Yeah, I've collected the Core. When they add a few cards to it, I trade for them or buy the playset."
Maybe every 2-3 years they do a larger overhaul, but this current system is nuts. We need to take it back to the way it used to be.
I'd rather have 4 Wrath of Gods than a smattering of $1.00 rares where I don't even have complete playsets of each. 40 is a bit of an exaggeration. Actually, it is more than a bit.
You seem to like the idea of perpetually needing to buy cards, and those cards perpetually being cast aside for new ones. Why do you think we have so many people compalining about unplayable $1.00 rares and 60% of the commons uncommons never seeing play? Why is that? It's because when the company feels compelled to create so many new cards with such intense frequency and volume, they just have to make a butt-load of filler.
If we had a more stable, constant Core Set, Wizards could work to making it so that the vast majority of the cards within it were playable. Would you rather have a new Core Set of largely unplayable worthless cards, or a relatively unchanging core set of largely awesome, playable cards?
The expansion block sets of which we get 3 a year are for new cards and variety. We should have a stable base. I think the goal for M13 and beyond should be, "Make most, if not all, of these cards great and playable."
How To Keep Your FOIL Cards From Curling: http://youtu.be/QTmubrS8VnI
The Best Deck Boxes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEwgLph_Pjk
The Best Binders: http://youtu.be/H5IauASYWjk
for those of us who were actually playing when these old base sets were released the
m10 concept is a refreshing and necessary change. the grass was not greener on the other side.
as an extra aside 4th, 5th, 6th, and 7th were AWFUL and were much to blame for competitive players bashing the base sets because well they plain sucked.
New cards are fun.
While that's true, nowhere near as many new cards as with an expansion. I don't know. For me, it's kind of a let down when I just got my 40th doom blade and I've only opened 4 packs of m12.
And to the other poster, yes, 4th, 5th, etc. were horrible core sets. But the overall power level of most cards back then was meh. Sure, you had some exceptions with the Urza's block and some other stuff around that time and shortly thereafter, but for the most part, the really overpowered cards (power 9, dual lands, etc.) were no longer being printed and what was left, for the core stuff, was pretty so-so. It was the nature of what it was.
For the record, I wasn't excited about new core sets back then either. Especially back then when there was almost nothing new.
But to have to go out and buy all these cards for just 95 new cards (not even a small expansion's worth like Fallen Empires) just seems to me to be a waste of money.
I mean how many Doom Blades do I really need?
Yes, I did exaggerate a bit when I said 40, it was just the number that I happened to type in. I really just meant "a bit more than you needed".
Its not that I want to perpetually need to buy cards. It's why I like the current set up. What cards in 2012 did we need that weren't in a previous set? Azure Mage or Jade Mage? Garruk or Jace? Except for a handful of cards, most have been printed in a previous set. I have Shocks from Onslaught (when I started playing), so I can play those if I don't happen to pull any in M12 and I need red burn. I would assume if you need Gideons, you've got them from ROE. At least the new cards give you a reason to draft with the core set, and if you really don't want to, singles are always an option too!
Mafia Stats
Kill shot: BB
Issue with my shooting? Please visit my helpdesk and help me learn to aim!
Part of it is seeing how the Core Set shakes up the new meta. They use it to drop hints as well as help "fix" things that needed to be shaken up a bit. This was always the case though. Back when we had a Core every other year, it was always fun to speculate what some things meant. Ravnica was rumored to be Multicolor... and suddenly BAM we had all ten painlands appear in 8th (right before RAV was released). Was pretty exciting!
While not all of them are good, they were certainly interesting.
- Warp World
- Battle of Wits
- Biorhythm
- Blood Moon
- Crucible of Worlds
- Zur's Weirding
- Trade Routes
Also, it was usually the place where they printed the most basic version of an effect (dual lands, tutors, etc), so if you needed something specific, the core set was a good place to look for it.
They can still print interesting cards, Doubling Chant, Grand Abolisher, Rune-Scarred Demon and Sphinx of Oogaley-Boogaley.
And we have the most basic version of dual lands and other effects. Angel's Mercy, Doom Blade and Kite Shield. The core set still has all of what you wanted.
Mafia Stats
Kill shot: BB
Issue with my shooting? Please visit my helpdesk and help me learn to aim!
That said, I look forward to m13.
The cards you mentioned are interesting for you (maybe), but are not of the type of the cards I mentioned. I like to think myself a bit of a Johnny, and the cards you propose don't really do anything that can be abused or broken.
In 10th edition, there were more cards that just bent the rules, creating opportunities for weird interactions. We also had all dual lands in the core, not just the allied versions. The current push of creatures and the reduction of the number of cards per set is making the game considerably less fun for me. Inclusion of mechanics like bloodthirst increases this problem.
This made the most sense to me. There are only so many options, and I'm sure the route they went with made the most sense at the end of the day. I think Wizards wanted a set to tie the blocks together that they could tinker with every year, and introduce "neutral" powerful cards (everything from Baneslayer in M10 to the titans in M11/12) to make Standard more versatile. Not to mention, it allows them to keep vanilla dual lands in Standard and keep their price down, AND allows them to print block specific lands that are more flavorful.
The way they do it, they can concentrate more flavor into the blocks (just look at Innistrad) without diluting it by being forced to shoehorn in the stuff they throw in the core sets.
I think that was a long-winded way of saying that I approve of how they do it, and I look forward to the annual core sets more than I did the previous versions or really almost anything else except the drop of a brand new block.
http://www.fourdimensionalphysics.com/index.html
What about those who didnt play Onslaught or ROE? are they to pay the overpriced costs of them "nolonger in print"?
Core sets are great, brings more new players etc etc
My trade thread: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=379815
That's my point. For commons, which you'll get a lot of, if you have older shocks, then you're set, but if you don't you can easily get with the core set. The point is that the cards you NEED to play are usually available from past sets, so there's little point to complaining about them constantly printing new card when a majority of the cards being played are at least from an older set, or for those that don't have them are available again.
Mafia Stats
Kill shot: BB
Issue with my shooting? Please visit my helpdesk and help me learn to aim!
M12, or Core Sets in General is exciting for me as it makes cards cheaper. the reprints of M10 duals, planeswalkers , baneslayer, and titans made them all drop in price. Why complain of having too many doomblades or shocks? They are useful cards after all. At least they are dirt cheap now and you can save money for the Rares you need.
A few things I HOPE that they bring back
Darksteel collosus, Lighting bolt, and Knights. After 2011 Knights just........died. I used to run a great 2010,2011 Mono white Knights/equpment deck but once 2010 went out it took a major hit and then 2011 went out and it was gone completly. and My RDW deck (always have at least one in standard) is much less effective now that Lighting bolt, Ball Lighting and such are out.
Also Core sets tend to be more balanced than blocks.
You mean like how the expansion sets aren't mostly Limited filler and are made of mostly, if not all, cards that are great and playable?