or they would try to reduce the powercreep by not creating even more broken cards but rather make some broader useful ones...there are so many possibilitys which can be added to the game besides bigger, stronger, harder
Like with SOM block.
But yeah, too many people are freaking out about 5 loyalty abilities. If they all suck, then they suck. What if Chandra Ablaze had two more abilities similar to the ones she already has? Right.
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Level 2 Judge
Currently playing:
Standard: Superfriends!
Legacy: Nic Fit / Pod
Pauper: Delvar; Tron; Flicker Stuff
Commander: Riku ("Some weird doubple spell thing happened"); Keranos ("I did a Gatherer search for 'random' and 'flip a coin.'"); Superfriends!
you know that JTMS wasnt borken because he had 4 abilities but because he had broken abilities?
a planeswalker with 5 abilities in a way like
+ gain 1 life
+ draw a card and loose 3 ife
- destroy target werewolf if its white
- loose 2 life
- put a 1/1 zombie token into play
is in no way broken just because it has 5 abilities
id wish ppl would stop whining that 5 abilities means broken because JTMS had 4...thats just stupid
I think you misunderstood the extent of my skeptical caution. There was more to the post I made than 5-abilities will potentially break the game in half. I also said that under the pressure of being so close to Jace, that there's also a good chance that this planeswalker will fall flat from too cautious design. If those 5-abilities you listed made it onto the planeswalker, would you be happy? The difficulty of five-abilities is that getting "just right" between "too powerful" and "too weak" is a difficult task and is made more difficult by being so close to Jace.
Edit: the planeswalker just may be over- or highly costed, but then again, Karn is 7 mana (only 1 shy of Nicol Bolas) and sees play in Standard... he is colourless, though.
Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker costs eight and is three colors, and he did see competitive play, and is still a powerhouse in EDHC... and I think he still sees some play in extended.
or they would try to reduce the powercreep by not creating even more broken cards but rather make some broader useful ones...there are so many possibilitys which can be added to the game besides bigger, stronger, harder
The problem with this statement is that one of Jace's defining characteristics is that his use was "too broad." Any deck that could splash blue was encouraged to play Jace, and I hear even Jund played Prophetic Prisms so they could splash Jace back in the 2009-2010 format. Broader use of a planewalker is something that I would argue that could potentially lead to it becoming a problem.
But yeah, too many people are freaking out about 5 loyalty abilities. If they all suck, then they suck. What if Chandra Ablaze had two more abilities similar to the ones she already has? Right.
If they all suck, I'm going to be mad because on my list of things about planewalkers that makes me angry, right after being broken is the planeswalker is bad.
And here's the thing about Chandra Ablaze that I know Wizards will not be repeating her failed formula. First, she was designed for a rapid burn archetype (i.e. a la Red Deck Wins), but costing 6 was a mistake because most of those decks curve out around four because they want to win before turn six. Chandra Ablaze was moot to those strategies. Had she been given two more abilities, I cannot say what would happen because I'd need to see those abilities in action first.
But the other thing is that Wizards has shown me they have no intention of making another Chandra Ablaze mistake because 1. They made Chandra, the Firebrand so broad that any deck could play her if they so desired to. They don't want planeswalkers to be just tossed aside like Chandra has historically been. And 2. Narrow deck application planeswalkers have since shown a marked improvement. Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas is narrow and right now he's cruising on reasonable success, and even Venser, who's most potent use is in decks built around him has started cropping up now.
I think this is a token creature making spell with flashback. So, it makes four tokens and then flashes back to make four more (or five or whatever). It technically can make more tokens than other cards, but it does so upon two castings.
Moan of the Unhallowed (in the Duels 2012 thread) is a token-making sorcery with flashback, and it's essentially Grizzly Fate in black without threshold bonuses (admittedly it costs one less mana to cast from your hand). That wouldn't qualify, because if nothing else it produces less tokens than Skittering Invasion.
Then have him eat Nicol Bolas and the Magic universe can be awesome again. He takes over the Infinite Consortium and turns it into a trans-multiverse Izzet League. His agents scour the multiverse in Venser's planeships looking for magic to learn, technology to improve upon, and less intelligent people to condescend to.
Most of us are still butthurt from the JTMS experience…
Umm…really? Stop complaining. I'm sorry to single you out on this one since this thread is basically 17 pages of wild guesses and people pissing me off. It's not just you, and I mean you no disrespect personally…just a convenient post to quote…plus I like the expression "butthurt."
Anyway…stop complaining. Every time someone complains that they think Jace was unfair, I just think, "man…they should have played during Urza block". If nothing else, it's unattractive.
Yes…Jace, TMS was just about the most powerful card printed in a long time. But I'd rather face him down than a Progenitus any day. Progenitus is harder to remove and presents a faster clock.
Frankly, I don't understand why Jace, TMS was banned in the first place. It changes the way you have to fight, but he's definitely beatable. Maybe Standard players have gotten so lousy that he's actually too good, but you've got pre-emptive protection against the first one if you want to play a deck that can make UU (Jace Beleren), it is counterable, it's susceptible to direct damage, you can attack it if you've got more than 1 creature (or anything with haste, shroud, or pro blue), and getting fatesealed every turn doesn't necessarily mean you're going to lose if you've already got a win or a favorable race on-board. Plus, fatesealing can miss. And isn't Vampire Hexmage still standard? Like she has been for Jace's entire reign.
A pair of Savannah Lions can beat Jace if Jace's controller can't counter them…which isn't likely considering that Jace costs 4 and people spend their time misstepping preordains for reasons I can't begin to fathom.
The closest thing to a mistake that Wizards made in regards to Jace, TMS was not reprinting Pyroblast/REB at the same time. And that's still just one more card that's a bit more efficient and beats the whole "fateseal out of bolt range" plan instead of having to race it.
Seriously…brainstorm every turn isn't that powerful. Who here has ever seriously bothered to counter–let alone complain about–a Sylvan Library? Especially one that costs 4 and can be attacked by creatures. Blow it up, sure, if they're getting ahead…but complain until it gets banned? Just because eventually it can fateseal you or just win if you can't find a way to deal with it?
Having to have a basic plan against one card is nothing new. Look at vintage decklists and realize that good decks either run Bazaar of Baghdad or 6-8 sideboard cards to beat it. Or Hurkyl's Recall being in every blue deck…yeah, it's good against shop aggro…but it's not an auto-win, and it's not as game-defining as it can be against Blightsteel Colossus…which presents a 1-turn clock and basically only loses to Hurkyl's Recall or something else broken.
Stop complaining about Jace, TMS…it just makes you look like a bad loser.
Umm…really? Stop complaining. I'm sorry to single you out on this one since this thread is basically 17 pages of wild guesses and people pissing me off. It's not just you, and I mean you no disrespect personally…just a convenient post to quote…plus I like the expression "butthurt."
Anyway…stop complaining. Every time someone complains that they think Jace was unfair, I just think, "man…they should have played during Urza block". If nothing else, it's unattractive.
Yes…Jace, TMS was just about the most powerful card printed in a long time. But I'd rather face him down than a Progenitus any day. Progenitus is harder to remove and presents a faster clock.
Frankly, I don't understand why Jace, TMS was banned in the first place. It changes the way you have to fight, but he's definitely beatable. Maybe Standard players have gotten so lousy that he's actually too good, but you've got pre-emptive protection against the first one if you want to play a deck that can make UU (Jace Beleren), it is counterable, it's susceptible to direct damage, you can attack it if you've got more than 1 creature (or anything with haste, shroud, or pro blue), and getting fatesealed every turn doesn't necessarily mean you're going to lose if you've already got a win or a favorable race on-board. Plus, fatesealing can miss. And isn't Vampire Hexmage still standard? Like she has been for Jace's entire reign.
A pair of Savannah Lions can beat Jace if Jace's controller can't counter them…which isn't likely considering that Jace costs 4 and people spend their time misstepping preordains for reasons I can't begin to fathom.
The closest thing to a mistake that Wizards made in regards to Jace, TMS was not reprinting Pyroblast/REB at the same time. And that's still just one more card that's a bit more efficient and beats the whole "fateseal out of bolt range" plan instead of having to race it.
Seriously…brainstorm every turn isn't that powerful. Who here has ever seriously bothered to counter–let alone complain about–a Sylvan Library? Especially one that costs 4 and can be attacked by creatures. Blow it up, sure, if they're getting ahead…but complain until it gets banned? Just because eventually it can fateseal you or just win if you can't find a way to deal with it?
Having to have a basic plan against one card is nothing new. Look at vintage decklists and realize that good decks either run Bazaar of Baghdad or 6-8 sideboard cards to beat it. Or Hurkyl's Recall being in every blue deck…yeah, it's good against shop aggro…but it's not an auto-win, and it's not as game-defining as it can be against Blightsteel Colossus…which presents a 1-turn clock and basically only loses to Hurkyl's Recall or something else broken.
Stop complaining about Jace, TMS…it just makes you look like a bad loser.
This! I fully agree, I have yet to have a jace 2 against me for more then a turn if I don't want it there to further my goals in the game. Jace was just a good card, nothing else. Blue has had far more broken things since even 8th. It's just everyone used jace2 in the same way not being creative on the otherside to take him out without problem
I'm guessing those cards are legit. With the story info up on the main MTG page today it makes those cards even more exciting. The Alpha wolf thing doesn't have a casting cost, but instead a moon. Wondering how the transformation thing works. It would appear that those two cards are two versions of the mayor. Today got me very excited about this set.
Also, if you look at the collector number, it's 193a and 193b.
Hmmmmmm..
Final thing I just noticed. That wolf is the Mayor without a doubt. The window behind the Mayor is the same window the Alpha is leaping through.
Why are we talking about Progenetus? That card costs ten mana, which, as we know, is slang for infinity+3. I'd rather face down Jace than him too, but I never have to.
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I don't like Mythics much either, but realize that petitioning for their removal on a third-party forum is about as effective as eating soup with steak knife.
And it says "3/3" just above the "1/1" of the mayor, while the wolf is just "3/3." I wonder how this will work - having to have multiple cards will be annoying.
Is the spoiler date right? I heard that they were starting early because of the convention and the packs they were giving out during it.
Preview Week is supposed to begin this upcoming Monday, with some early spoilers at PAX on Saturday. So that preview week date should be changed to August 29.
Ok about that new prerelease and release card thats being previewed. I feel like something is just off about it or it diesnt seem right. First off I dont see how a day or night theme would work, if thats what the moon and sun symbolize.Maybe it will be every other turn you take, switch from day to night. Next, Its an interesting concept but it has same problem as other combos. Like the sceptor, throne, and crown in m12 you need to find a way to get both cards in your hand because I seriously doubt wizards is making 2 sided cards. I think these 2 cards are seperate Lastly, the numbering I dont feel is right. Its just weird the spoiler says 264 cards but I feel if we have 193a and 193b, How many cards are really in this set? I dont know but all in all I like idea but there are a couple flaws, if these card is real.
Ok about that new prerelease and release card thats being previewed. I feel like something is just off about it or it diesnt seem right. First off I dont see how a day or night theme would work, if thats what the moon and sun symbolize.Maybe it will be every other turn you take, switch from day to night. Next, Its an interesting concept but it has same problem as other combos. Like the sceptor, throne, and crown in m12 you need to find a way to get both cards in your hand because I seriously doubt wizards is making 2 sided cards. I think these 2 cards are seperate Lastly, the numbering I dont feel is right. Its just weird the spoiler says 264 cards but I feel if we have 193a and 193b, How many cards are really in this set? I dont know but all in all I like idea but there are a couple flaws, if these card is real.
Making this kind of judgement now seems silly when we don't actually know how the mechanic works. Be patient and wait until Saturday, we'll be getting real spoilers then.
Are we sure that those are the Prerelease card(s)? Wasn't it a card named Devil's Play?
Devil's Play is the "Buy-A-Box" promo, a card you receive by preordering (or just buying fairly early, it can depend) a booster box of Innistrad from your local game store.
Making this kind of judgement now seems silly when we don't actually know how the mechanic works. Be patient and wait until Saturday, we'll be getting real spoilers then.
Yeah you're right luminum can. Only time will tell with these mechanics. Cant wait till Saturday .
Umm…really? Stop complaining. I'm sorry to single you out on this one since this thread is basically 17 pages of wild guesses and people pissing me off. It's not just you, and I mean you no disrespect personally…just a convenient post to quote…plus I like the expression "butthurt."
Anyway…stop complaining. Every time someone complains that they think Jace was unfair, I just think, "man…they should have played during Urza block". If nothing else, it's unattractive.
Yes…Jace, TMS was just about the most powerful card printed in a long time. But I'd rather face him down than a Progenitus any day. Progenitus is harder to remove and presents a faster clock.
Frankly, I don't understand why Jace, TMS was banned in the first place. It changes the way you have to fight, but he's definitely beatable. Maybe Standard players have gotten so lousy that he's actually too good, but you've got pre-emptive protection against the first one if you want to play a deck that can make UU (Jace Beleren), it is counterable, it's susceptible to direct damage, you can attack it if you've got more than 1 creature (or anything with haste, shroud, or pro blue), and getting fatesealed every turn doesn't necessarily mean you're going to lose if you've already got a win or a favorable race on-board. Plus, fatesealing can miss. And isn't Vampire Hexmage still standard? Like she has been for Jace's entire reign.
A pair of Savannah Lions can beat Jace if Jace's controller can't counter them…which isn't likely considering that Jace costs 4 and people spend their time misstepping preordains for reasons I can't begin to fathom.
The closest thing to a mistake that Wizards made in regards to Jace, TMS was not reprinting Pyroblast/REB at the same time. And that's still just one more card that's a bit more efficient and beats the whole "fateseal out of bolt range" plan instead of having to race it.
Seriously…brainstorm every turn isn't that powerful. Who here has ever seriously bothered to counter–let alone complain about–a Sylvan Library? Especially one that costs 4 and can be attacked by creatures. Blow it up, sure, if they're getting ahead…but complain until it gets banned? Just because eventually it can fateseal you or just win if you can't find a way to deal with it?
Having to have a basic plan against one card is nothing new. Look at vintage decklists and realize that good decks either run Bazaar of Baghdad or 6-8 sideboard cards to beat it. Or Hurkyl's Recall being in every blue deck…yeah, it's good against shop aggro…but it's not an auto-win, and it's not as game-defining as it can be against Blightsteel Colossus…which presents a 1-turn clock and basically only loses to Hurkyl's Recall or something else broken.
Stop complaining about Jace, TMS…it just makes you look like a bad loser.
Why is the second planeswalker assumed to be a new Garruk (when one was just printed in the last set), and not Ral Zarek? (I don't mean the fake everyone knows about, just a planeswalker card with that name.)
I know Zarek is probably from Ravnica, presumed setting of the next block, but planeswalkers get around; the original five aren't from Lorwyn, for example. So that alone is no evidence at against his appearing in Innistrad; nor is the enmity between Garruk and Liliana proof positive of his appearance here (Ajani and Bolas haven't appeared in the same set, for example).
Any minute now we should be hearing from PAX.
I have not been this excited for a new set in a very long time. Between MRD 2, ISD, and the rumored return to Rav, I'm a very giddy MTG player.
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I am going to laugh if this is just a two-mana 2/2 that bounces itself every turn.
|One Red Mountain - A adventure in MTG Trading|
Like with SOM block.
But yeah, too many people are freaking out about 5 loyalty abilities. If they all suck, then they suck. What if Chandra Ablaze had two more abilities similar to the ones she already has? Right.
Currently playing:
Standard: Superfriends!
Legacy: Nic Fit / Pod
Pauper: Delvar; Tron; Flicker Stuff
Commander: Riku ("Some weird doubple spell thing happened"); Keranos ("I did a Gatherer search for 'random' and 'flip a coin.'"); Superfriends!
Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker costs eight and is three colors, and he did see competitive play, and is still a powerhouse in EDHC... and I think he still sees some play in extended.
The problem with this statement is that one of Jace's defining characteristics is that his use was "too broad." Any deck that could splash blue was encouraged to play Jace, and I hear even Jund played Prophetic Prisms so they could splash Jace back in the 2009-2010 format. Broader use of a planewalker is something that I would argue that could potentially lead to it becoming a problem.
If they all suck, I'm going to be mad because on my list of things about planewalkers that makes me angry, right after being broken is the planeswalker is bad.
And here's the thing about Chandra Ablaze that I know Wizards will not be repeating her failed formula. First, she was designed for a rapid burn archetype (i.e. a la Red Deck Wins), but costing 6 was a mistake because most of those decks curve out around four because they want to win before turn six. Chandra Ablaze was moot to those strategies. Had she been given two more abilities, I cannot say what would happen because I'd need to see those abilities in action first.
But the other thing is that Wizards has shown me they have no intention of making another Chandra Ablaze mistake because 1. They made Chandra, the Firebrand so broad that any deck could play her if they so desired to. They don't want planeswalkers to be just tossed aside like Chandra has historically been. And 2. Narrow deck application planeswalkers have since shown a marked improvement. Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas is narrow and right now he's cruising on reasonable success, and even Venser, who's most potent use is in decks built around him has started cropping up now.
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
~~~~~
Moan of the Unhallowed (in the Duels 2012 thread) is a token-making sorcery with flashback, and it's essentially Grizzly Fate in black without threshold bonuses (admittedly it costs one less mana to cast from your hand). That wouldn't qualify, because if nothing else it produces less tokens than Skittering Invasion.
I don't see them doing two token-creating spells with the same mechanic in the same set. In Rise, they only did one rebound black kill spell, one rebound red burn spell, one rebound green pump spell and so forth.
Umm…really? Stop complaining. I'm sorry to single you out on this one since this thread is basically 17 pages of wild guesses and people pissing me off. It's not just you, and I mean you no disrespect personally…just a convenient post to quote…plus I like the expression "butthurt."
Anyway…stop complaining. Every time someone complains that they think Jace was unfair, I just think, "man…they should have played during Urza block". If nothing else, it's unattractive.
Yes…Jace, TMS was just about the most powerful card printed in a long time. But I'd rather face him down than a Progenitus any day. Progenitus is harder to remove and presents a faster clock.
Frankly, I don't understand why Jace, TMS was banned in the first place. It changes the way you have to fight, but he's definitely beatable. Maybe Standard players have gotten so lousy that he's actually too good, but you've got pre-emptive protection against the first one if you want to play a deck that can make UU (Jace Beleren), it is counterable, it's susceptible to direct damage, you can attack it if you've got more than 1 creature (or anything with haste, shroud, or pro blue), and getting fatesealed every turn doesn't necessarily mean you're going to lose if you've already got a win or a favorable race on-board. Plus, fatesealing can miss. And isn't Vampire Hexmage still standard? Like she has been for Jace's entire reign.
A pair of Savannah Lions can beat Jace if Jace's controller can't counter them…which isn't likely considering that Jace costs 4 and people spend their time misstepping preordains for reasons I can't begin to fathom.
The closest thing to a mistake that Wizards made in regards to Jace, TMS was not reprinting Pyroblast/REB at the same time. And that's still just one more card that's a bit more efficient and beats the whole "fateseal out of bolt range" plan instead of having to race it.
Seriously…brainstorm every turn isn't that powerful. Who here has ever seriously bothered to counter–let alone complain about–a Sylvan Library? Especially one that costs 4 and can be attacked by creatures. Blow it up, sure, if they're getting ahead…but complain until it gets banned? Just because eventually it can fateseal you or just win if you can't find a way to deal with it?
Having to have a basic plan against one card is nothing new. Look at vintage decklists and realize that good decks either run Bazaar of Baghdad or 6-8 sideboard cards to beat it. Or Hurkyl's Recall being in every blue deck…yeah, it's good against shop aggro…but it's not an auto-win, and it's not as game-defining as it can be against Blightsteel Colossus…which presents a 1-turn clock and basically only loses to Hurkyl's Recall or something else broken.
Stop complaining about Jace, TMS…it just makes you look like a bad loser.
This! I fully agree, I have yet to have a jace 2 against me for more then a turn if I don't want it there to further my goals in the game. Jace was just a good card, nothing else. Blue has had far more broken things since even 8th. It's just everyone used jace2 in the same way not being creative on the otherside to take him out without problem
Interesting find!!!
I'm guessing those cards are legit. With the story info up on the main MTG page today it makes those cards even more exciting. The Alpha wolf thing doesn't have a casting cost, but instead a moon. Wondering how the transformation thing works. It would appear that those two cards are two versions of the mayor. Today got me very excited about this set.
Also, if you look at the collector number, it's 193a and 193b.
Hmmmmmm..
Final thing I just noticed. That wolf is the Mayor without a doubt. The window behind the Mayor is the same window the Alpha is leaping through.
Thanks, I was just reading that and it really does explain things much better.
Preview Week is supposed to begin this upcoming Monday, with some early spoilers at PAX on Saturday. So that preview week date should be changed to August 29.
R Citizen Cane (Feldon of the Third Path)
Making this kind of judgement now seems silly when we don't actually know how the mechanic works. Be patient and wait until Saturday, we'll be getting real spoilers then.
R Citizen Cane (Feldon of the Third Path)
Devil's Play is the "Buy-A-Box" promo, a card you receive by preordering (or just buying fairly early, it can depend) a booster box of Innistrad from your local game store.
R Citizen Cane (Feldon of the Third Path)
Yeah you're right luminum can. Only time will tell with these mechanics. Cant wait till Saturday .
i fully agree.
I know Zarek is probably from Ravnica, presumed setting of the next block, but planeswalkers get around; the original five aren't from Lorwyn, for example. So that alone is no evidence at against his appearing in Innistrad; nor is the enmity between Garruk and Liliana proof positive of his appearance here (Ajani and Bolas haven't appeared in the same set, for example).
This is from Mark Purvis' Twitter:
Here is a link.
ah, shoot, I was hoping it was something new...I didn't realize it was talking about DOTP lol...Darnit lol.
Murder of Crows, etc.
We've had them since before M12 was released, thanks to some of the data from the expansion being buried inside the original game's files.
R Citizen Cane (Feldon of the Third Path)
Practice for Khans of Tarkir Limited:
Draft: (#1) (#2) (#3) (#4) (#5)
I have not been this excited for a new set in a very long time. Between MRD 2, ISD, and the rumored return to Rav, I'm a very giddy MTG player.