The vampire Lord seems pretty bad, with the flip being completely Timmyish, overkill and unnecessary. 3/3 fliers for 4 are historically bad rares that get overhyped (Emeria Angel aside), and this looks like another one. I doubt it will see any play.
The land is pretty cool. If UB Control remains a deck then this lends it some very strong power as a 1-of.
This vampire is good for the same reason Emeria angel was good - it semi-replaces itself if it untaps, and it has a better upside than emeria angel ever did, both in terms of raw power and the strength of the tokens.
The two drawbacks (black tokens in the age of SoFaF, living to see the untap step) are manageable, and it seems like this vamp will fat rather nicely into whatever control deck emerges to battle Pod lists.
This vampire is good for the same reason Emeria angel was good - it semi-replaces itself if it untaps, and it has a better upside than emeria angel ever did, both in terms of raw power and the strength of the tokens.
The two drawbacks (black tokens in the age of SoFaF, living to see the untap step) are manageable, and it seems like this vamp will fat rather nicely into whatever control deck emerges to battle Pod lists.
The problem it has is speed. Its slower than a tortoise made out of lead. If you want to fart tokens with it, you're going to tap out on turn 4, get nothing on turn 5, and swing with a 2/2 flying on turn 6. With an overextended board position, you might transform on turn 8.
But the problem here is that the lord himself never swings at your opponents dome. Are you going to swing with a 3/3 flying, or fart weenies? You'll never wind up attacking with the 3/3. Meanwhile, while 5/5 flying looks impressive on its switch, the reality is, the P/T on the DFC *really* doesn't matter. You're going to have a minimum of 12 power on your other vampires when you transform, and if you transformed after tapping for a fart, you're going to be ending the game without actually attacking with the lord at all.
You'd have to be in a seriously weird game state where you actually end up attacking with its transformed side.
Meanwhile, Emeria Angel was great because she farted out her tokens while still turning sideways to bonk your noggin for 3 a pop. She could poop them out without tapping, since it was on a landfall clause. Hence, she was much faster- if not as powerful.
This lord is powerful, but slow. Very slow. And theres no reason he'd ever see play as a finisher when grave titan is around, and even with tribal bonuses its not enough to make vamps convincing
Four vampires already in play when this hits the table?
Not that I'm saying the vampire is good; he encourages overextending way too much.
Yah, but in such a situation (which should really not be occurring, since that means you're overextended hard), you'd be able to swing with your 4x vampires before this untaps (and with +2/+2 each, assuming you had 1 extra mana leftover)
I mean, if your opponent lets you have 5 creatures on the board and isn't sweeping them, when this guy hits, then it definitely qualifiers as a weird board state
Maybe Vamps can see more play in the modern format now, if they can be consistent and keep pace.
lol wut?
Competitive? No. You have to tap it to make dudes and you need major dudes plus a black mana to makes dudes even more dudely with his pump dudes ability.
I really dislike the U/B Land. I mean, it looks they turned Zombies into mill themed just to make Jace and Visions perhaps playable?
Or vice versa. Keep in mind that the Core sets have a shorter span of development, and they can easily put plants into the sets to allow for support in the next block. Vampire Nocturus and Zombie Infestation for example. No room for X rare card in the set, well throw it in Core. Need a draw spell that will help Zombies? Throw it in Core.
Or vice versa. Keep in mind that the Core sets have a shorter span of development, and they can easily put plants into the sets to allow for support in the next block. Vampire Nocturus and Zombie Infestation for example. No room for X rare card in the set, well throw it in Core. Need a draw spell that will help Zombies? Throw it in Core.
True true, I see your point.
However I do like the Vampire lord, especially as a control finisher.
Yes he's slow, but un answered, like any Titan, will win you the game.
Tis a shame his flip side still dies to Dismember.
Four vampires already in play when this hits the table?
Not that I'm saying the vampire is good; he encourages overextending way too much.
He doesn't encourage overextending much more than any other lord. The card is good because it continuously produces creatures, and he can activate himself, if you're so inclined. If your opponent DoJs you on a field full of vampires produced by him, then you'll lose your field, but it still all originated from one card, so you still really only lose one card. If you DO overextend, you're going to be running the risk of losing it all anyways, but it seems that the B/R vampires in this set are more prone to zerg rushing anyways.
I'm not that fond of this new vampire lord.
I was really hoping for a 2cc one with just +1/+1 for others.
This one is a 4cc creature, in Bolt range and it competes for the spot with Nocturnus in non-standard formats.
5 vampires into play to flip it sounds overkill imo.
I like the front art tho'
I second that.
But you've got to remember that bolt is rotating out, there's still incinerate, but from what I've read here, people just dismiss that, too. Also, it looks like post rotation standard is shaping up to be slower, tempered steel loses its "lord" and cannot hit as hard anymore. It's like Kuldotha losing Guide and Bashwucker.
The problem it has is speed. Its slower than a tortoise made out of lead. If you want to fart tokens with it, you're going to tap out on turn 4, get nothing on turn 5, and swing with a 2/2 flying on turn 6. With an overextended board position, you might transform on turn 8.
But the problem here is that the lord himself never swings at your opponents dome. Are you going to swing with a 3/3 flying, or fart weenies? You'll never wind up attacking with the 3/3. Meanwhile, while 5/5 flying looks impressive on its switch, the reality is, the P/T on the DFC *really* doesn't matter. You're going to have a minimum of 12 power on your other vampires when you transform, and if you transformed after tapping for a fart, you're going to be ending the game without actually attacking with the lord at all.
You'd have to be in a seriously weird game state where you actually end up attacking with its transformed side.
Meanwhile, Emeria Angel was great because she farted out her tokens while still turning sideways to bonk your noggin for 3 a pop. She could poop them out without tapping, since it was on a landfall clause. Hence, she was much faster- if not as powerful.
This lord is powerful, but slow. Very slow. And theres no reason he'd ever see play as a finisher when grave titan is around, and even with tribal bonuses its not enough to make vamps convincing
I concur with the fact that he's really slow. And that you'll rarely wind up attacking with him. But you can't weight his value in a vacuum. Saying that he'll be alone on your side of the field by turn 4 is improbable (either that or you're already losing and he's not going to save you) since there are other, cheaper vampires to support him.
Also, if you managed to transform him and have the Stromkirk Noble, the two little red vamps and able to put the Falkenrath Marauders into play, I'd very much rather swing with them all than putting the tokens.
The vampire lord is too slow to be a finisher. On the turn he comes down, you got 3/3 blocker that you probably don't want to risk. Next turn you got a 2/2 blocker. After that you attack for 2, then 4, then 6+... by then you're on turn 8.
He's going to be good at producing tokens to chump block until you drop your real finisher, like a big 6/6 that net you a card per turn or spit out two 2/2 zombies for free per turn... you know, the usual daemon or titan.
I do approve of clones that kills. Removal, mirror breaker, and overkill (if copying your own stuff) all rolled into one.
I dig the vampire. Gotta love flying tokens. We've seen some pretty good vampires in this set.
What I really came to say is: I really, REALLY love the flavor just dripping off the edges of Evil Twin. It is pretty great.
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"I will flay the skin from your flesh and the flesh from your bones and scrape your bones dry. And still you will not have suffered enough." -Greven il-Vec, to Gerrard
U/B land is a ginormous letdown at the moment. Unless there is some unrevealed Zombie recursion that makes this really good, it won't be going in my U/B Zombies I'm hoping to build.
Prey Upon is nice removal for green, and the Vampire can get out of hand quick.
Really, really liking Bloodline Keeper for casual. Creatures that both create and boost their own tribe (ala cemetery reaper) are among my favorites, and this guy boosts them and becomes very formidable himself once he flips. For constructed, I haven't played enough of it lately to know for sure, but dropping this guy after a DoJ seems like a pretty awesome recovery.
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Many thanks to ChibiSwan of The Ugly Swan for the great banner!
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It mostly consists of a napalm filled trench around my house and a stack of 1994 pornography in my basement.
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As much as I'm against the OTT view that this card is going to solo tournaments, cure cancer and make Susan Boyle attractive I'm not really a fan of the opposing camp who think it slaughters puppies and sired Justin Bieber.
OMG... another 2-card combo in Modern to play with:
Bloodline Keeper (once he gets over his summoning sickness) + Intruder Alarm = infinte army of 4/4's!
Maybe it's even worth tossing a Thousand-Year Elixir in there, so we can start pumping out tokens right away.
In Standard, even without other vampires, this guy could easily find a place in a U/B control deck by himself: a 3/3 flier that makes a 2/2 flier for free every turn is pretty solid. Yes, he is vulnerable to removal, but at :2mana::symb::symb:, casting this guy and having counterspell backup in a metagame where Titans and Wurmcoil Engines run amok seems reasonable.
Evil Twin... this reminds me that I opened three Clones in M10 and M11 boosters; I'll probably have a similar fate if I open Innistrad boosters.
Still, the fact that he can also murder whatever he copies is very cool.
im trying to figure out why people like that vampire lord. Anyone who played vamps in zendikar knows that you are lucky if your vamps last a turn.
That vamp lord has no board effect when he enters, and getting 5 vamps on the field is impossible and means you just over-extended. Even with all the CHEAP vampires in zendikar, i can't even think of a time anyone got captivating vampire online, hence he was unplayable. If he could have transformed with 3 vampires on the field, that would have been reasonable. 5 is impossible, ergo he wont see standard play (except maybe at first until people realize how bad he is).
With go for the throat, dismember, incinerate etc etc etc, this guy will never even make a single token let alone transform.
Its too bad, because Jason Chan is one of the best artists for magic (maybe top 3) and i love it when his cards see play.
+2/+2 isn't really overkill if you're massing vampires. 1-2 activations assuming you curve out well might be enough. I don't see vampires being good as a deck, although they'll undoubtedly be forced quite hard by some people. I just don't think this'll be a bad card. 3 toughness is a little low, but he's a pretty solid token generator.
In fact this card might even make ratchet bomb playable, which is what i'm personally hoping for.
It is overkill, because 11 power (at least) in vampires should be more than enough.
Could you explain why it would work in UB control? Is it for the mirror control matchups?
Just curious. I don't have much experience with the deck.
If you are winning the spell war versus aggro but can't find your finisher, have your control opponent sitting at a standoff and you're just playing draw-go, etc, this land provides a slow win strategy that can activate at the end of their turn. It's not as good as other cards in the cycle but it is certainly playable.
I really hate design and development decisions such as the vampire. Arguably the most important reason that they decided to create dual-faced cards rather than bring back flip cards was because the rules couldn't support flipping back and forth. Why isn't this just a flip card? It's dual-faced for fanboyism and because they hoped people wouldn't notice that they're idiots. Why not take advantage of the design space offered by dual-faced cards? Why take a step back on their own design when it isn't necessary?
Because once they decided to use dual-faced cards, they were committed to use them for everything. They can't make some cards dual-faced and other as flip cards, they avoid using two similar mechanics in the same block. Sure, some of the dual-faced cards could be done as flip cards, but not all of them. Specifically, not the Werewolves which are the main reason for them.
If a card transforms back, there are two reasons for that: Either the transformation is involuntary (like with Werewolves) or the normal face offers some advantages the transformed face doesn't have (like Screeching Bat whose other side lacks flying). This card has neither, so there is no reason why it should turn back.
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being in bolt range in the new standard does not matter as much, x/2 does as it is in shock rangoe, not everyone will have Incinerate always.
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I really dislike the U/B Land. I mean, it looks they turned Zombies into mill themed just to make Jace and Visions perhaps playable?
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the amazing sig.
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This vampire is good for the same reason Emeria angel was good - it semi-replaces itself if it untaps, and it has a better upside than emeria angel ever did, both in terms of raw power and the strength of the tokens.
The two drawbacks (black tokens in the age of SoFaF, living to see the untap step) are manageable, and it seems like this vamp will fat rather nicely into whatever control deck emerges to battle Pod lists.
Could you explain why it would work in UB control? Is it for the mirror control matchups?
Just curious. I don't have much experience with the deck.
Deep Analysis is actually reprintable for this set's mad science flavor, although I doubt it'll come back.
Thanks to Syndarion of Aeternal Studios for my sig!
The problem it has is speed. Its slower than a tortoise made out of lead. If you want to fart tokens with it, you're going to tap out on turn 4, get nothing on turn 5, and swing with a 2/2 flying on turn 6. With an overextended board position, you might transform on turn 8.
But the problem here is that the lord himself never swings at your opponents dome. Are you going to swing with a 3/3 flying, or fart weenies? You'll never wind up attacking with the 3/3. Meanwhile, while 5/5 flying looks impressive on its switch, the reality is, the P/T on the DFC *really* doesn't matter. You're going to have a minimum of 12 power on your other vampires when you transform, and if you transformed after tapping for a fart, you're going to be ending the game without actually attacking with the lord at all.
You'd have to be in a seriously weird game state where you actually end up attacking with its transformed side.
Meanwhile, Emeria Angel was great because she farted out her tokens while still turning sideways to bonk your noggin for 3 a pop. She could poop them out without tapping, since it was on a landfall clause. Hence, she was much faster- if not as powerful.
This lord is powerful, but slow. Very slow. And theres no reason he'd ever see play as a finisher when grave titan is around, and even with tribal bonuses its not enough to make vamps convincing
Four vampires already in play when this hits the table?
Not that I'm saying the vampire is good; he encourages overextending way too much.
Thanks to Syndarion of Aeternal Studios for my sig!
Yah, but in such a situation (which should really not be occurring, since that means you're overextended hard), you'd be able to swing with your 4x vampires before this untaps (and with +2/+2 each, assuming you had 1 extra mana leftover)
I mean, if your opponent lets you have 5 creatures on the board and isn't sweeping them, when this guy hits, then it definitely qualifiers as a weird board state
lol wut?
Competitive? No. You have to tap it to make dudes and you need major dudes plus a black mana to makes dudes even more dudely with his pump dudes ability.
Dude. No.
Or vice versa. Keep in mind that the Core sets have a shorter span of development, and they can easily put plants into the sets to allow for support in the next block. Vampire Nocturus and Zombie Infestation for example. No room for X rare card in the set, well throw it in Core. Need a draw spell that will help Zombies? Throw it in Core.
True true, I see your point.
However I do like the Vampire lord, especially as a control finisher.
Yes he's slow, but un answered, like any Titan, will win you the game.
Tis a shame his flip side still dies to Dismember.
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the amazing sig.
NO RUG: Primer
Tempo Thresh: Primer
He doesn't encourage overextending much more than any other lord. The card is good because it continuously produces creatures, and he can activate himself, if you're so inclined. If your opponent DoJs you on a field full of vampires produced by him, then you'll lose your field, but it still all originated from one card, so you still really only lose one card. If you DO overextend, you're going to be running the risk of losing it all anyways, but it seems that the B/R vampires in this set are more prone to zerg rushing anyways.
And hey, we needed a land win-condition. Even if it is so, so, so much worse than Creeping Tar Pit.
It's horrible, but it's a land. I'll play it.
Buylist
But you've got to remember that bolt is rotating out, there's still incinerate, but from what I've read here, people just dismiss that, too. Also, it looks like post rotation standard is shaping up to be slower, tempered steel loses its "lord" and cannot hit as hard anymore. It's like Kuldotha losing Guide and Bashwucker.
I concur with the fact that he's really slow. And that you'll rarely wind up attacking with him. But you can't weight his value in a vacuum. Saying that he'll be alone on your side of the field by turn 4 is improbable (either that or you're already losing and he's not going to save you) since there are other, cheaper vampires to support him.
Also, if you managed to transform him and have the Stromkirk Noble, the two little red vamps and able to put the Falkenrath Marauders into play, I'd very much rather swing with them all than putting the tokens.
He's going to be good at producing tokens to chump block until you drop your real finisher, like a big 6/6 that net you a card per turn or spit out two 2/2 zombies for free per turn... you know, the usual daemon or titan.
I do approve of clones that kills. Removal, mirror breaker, and overkill (if copying your own stuff) all rolled into one.
I dig the vampire. Gotta love flying tokens. We've seen some pretty good vampires in this set.
What I really came to say is: I really, REALLY love the flavor just dripping off the edges of Evil Twin. It is pretty great.
EDH
GUBVorosh, the HunterGUB
BRGKarrthus, Tyrant of JundBRG
GMolimo, Maro-SorcererG
UThada Adel, AcquisitorU list soon
BEndrek Sahr, Master BreederB
Prey Upon is nice removal for green, and the Vampire can get out of hand quick.
Many thanks to ChibiSwan of The Ugly Swan for the great banner!
Bloodline Keeper (once he gets over his summoning sickness) + Intruder Alarm = infinte army of 4/4's!
Maybe it's even worth tossing a Thousand-Year Elixir in there, so we can start pumping out tokens right away.
In Standard, even without other vampires, this guy could easily find a place in a U/B control deck by himself: a 3/3 flier that makes a 2/2 flier for free every turn is pretty solid. Yes, he is vulnerable to removal, but at :2mana::symb::symb:, casting this guy and having counterspell backup in a metagame where Titans and Wurmcoil Engines run amok seems reasonable.
Evil Twin... this reminds me that I opened three Clones in M10 and M11 boosters; I'll probably have a similar fate if I open Innistrad boosters.
Still, the fact that he can also murder whatever he copies is very cool.
Jace's Trolling ---
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"Yeah, sure... when pigs fly."
-Mark Rosewater about printing this card
That vamp lord has no board effect when he enters, and getting 5 vamps on the field is impossible and means you just over-extended. Even with all the CHEAP vampires in zendikar, i can't even think of a time anyone got captivating vampire online, hence he was unplayable. If he could have transformed with 3 vampires on the field, that would have been reasonable. 5 is impossible, ergo he wont see standard play (except maybe at first until people realize how bad he is).
With go for the throat, dismember, incinerate etc etc etc, this guy will never even make a single token let alone transform.
Its too bad, because Jason Chan is one of the best artists for magic (maybe top 3) and i love it when his cards see play.
Constructed - free tokens are still good.
I like the UB land for mill/GY usage - but the cost is awful high 3mana plus itself is effectively a cost of 4mana.
It will also win many games in limited.
It is overkill, because 11 power (at least) in vampires should be more than enough.
If you are winning the spell war versus aggro but can't find your finisher, have your control opponent sitting at a standoff and you're just playing draw-go, etc, this land provides a slow win strategy that can activate at the end of their turn. It's not as good as other cards in the cycle but it is certainly playable.
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Because once they decided to use dual-faced cards, they were committed to use them for everything. They can't make some cards dual-faced and other as flip cards, they avoid using two similar mechanics in the same block. Sure, some of the dual-faced cards could be done as flip cards, but not all of them. Specifically, not the Werewolves which are the main reason for them.
If a card transforms back, there are two reasons for that: Either the transformation is involuntary (like with Werewolves) or the normal face offers some advantages the transformed face doesn't have (like Screeching Bat whose other side lacks flying). This card has neither, so there is no reason why it should turn back.