Good thinking! Just what the other 500 posts before have said...
Creatures with no mana cost are called tokens (Dryad Arbor is a land)
Considering that we've had non-creature spells with no mana cost, a creature spell without a mana cost is perfectly feasible.
Although the token mechanic seems more likely.
Also, I think I know why they gave the token a name: It's so they don't have to write out all the abilities on the original card. The name could be used as shorthand for the specific Wolf token, allowing them to not have gigantic walls of text involving the transformation mechanic.
I do not like this idea of casting x spells to trigger transformation, indicating the passing of time. Day/Night is time based. How do we measure time in MTG? Turns. Time Walk, Time Warp, Time Stretch etc. Time=Turns.
And this Day/Night state has to be global, affecting both players at the same time, otherwise it would make no sense. As someone else has said previously, it makes no damn sense for my creatures to be in Night mode while yours are in Day mode. Unless they are thousands of miles apart, or each creature has their own time bubble. Both sound dumb.
Me:Cast Mayor, counter your removal. Somehow get him to transform. Go.
You: Your Mayor transforms back as you played 2 spells last turn.
Me:This card is stupid.
Keeping track of Storm count can be silly at times, paying attention to how many spells were cast on a previous turns sounds irritating at best.
Even if he can only change back on my upkeep, my opponent can just dump his hand to give me a 1/1 on my turn. And I won't get the 2/2 token. And my wolves will suck.
We already HAVE Defender thanks.
Best case if that's how it works is it's a Standstill with no card advantage attached.
So you'd attach it so a spell you may or may not draw and/or play, instead of something that occurs naturally, like playing lands or casting spells?
Or say the passing of time. Novel thought, right? Using the passing of time to actually indicate the passing of time!
If indeed this is way the day/night mechanic works, then it would have to count each round of turns as opposed to just individual turns. Because if I start and its day, then your turn its night... I will always be stuck in day, and you will always be stuck in night. Must exist as a global time-state allowing both players to do things in the current time-state.
Day/Night Garruk with two unique abilities for each respective cycle and a shared ultimate. Plausible?
My guess is day side has two + abilities, night side has two - abilities and both sides have "0: Transition from Day/Night". Very elegant.
EDIT: Also, there is pretty much no Day/Night implementation I can think up that isn't crazy parasitic. This may go down as a great block for block constructed/standard play and terrible for everything else. No other cards in the history of magic have cared about Day/Night, and I highly doubt cards in the future will either (in other words, Day/Night can't possibly become evergreen).
After Infect and now Day/Night, I think I'm going to get tired of the parasitic block mechanics. Hopefully I'm wrong.
Me:Cast Mayor, counter your removal. Somehow get him to transform. Go.
You: Your Mayor transforms back as you played 2 spells last turn.
Me:This card is stupid.
Keeping track of Storm count can be silly at times, paying attention to how many spells were cast on a previous turns sounds irritating at best.
Even if he can only change back on my upkeep, my opponent will just dump his hand to give me a 1/1 on my turn.
We already HAVE Defender thanks.
What about: as soon as you play a day or night card you set the current turn as "day". on your following upkeep it toggles. If someone else plays a day/night card in that period, it doesn't matter so long as the cycle has already been set. If all the day/night cards die, you stop keeping track.
Considering that we've had non-creature spells with no mana cost, a creature spell without a mana cost is perfectly feasible.
Although the token mechanic seems more likely.
Also, I think I know why they gave the token a name: It's so they don't have to write out all the abilities on the original card. The name could be used as shorthand for the specific Wolf token, allowing them to not have gigantic walls of text involving the transformation mechanic.
Yes but those had a way to be cast built in AKA Suspend. The wolf card has no clause allowing it to be cast at all by it's own means. Which would be a terrible design IMO if you're forced to put "unplayable" cards in your deck so that a weakling 1/1 is of use. Or even worse, in a Draft, where you would be forced to choose between the useless 1/1 guy or the unplayable wolf. The card on it's own makes little to no sense being a creature spell. the A and B theory furthers this idea even more. For you can get the "Mayor" or the "wolf". Since in the end it's the same card but in different stages. Think of it like having tokens for the level up creatures, it's just for aesthetics. Or having tokens for Figure of Destiny. Rather than just stacking all the phases of such a creature in a small image box and give it no abilities, they just make "tokens" that you could slap over the creature itself, and treat both the Token and the creature as one, so as to greater enhance the flavor of the game.
My guess is day side has two + abilities, night side has two - abilities and both sides have "0: Transition from Day/Night". Very elegant.
EDIT: Also, there is pretty much no Day/Night implementation I can think up that isn't crazy parasitic. This may go down as a great block for block constructed/standard play and terrible for everything else. No other cards in the history of magic have cared about Day/Night, and I highly doubt cards in the future will either (in other words, Day/Night can't possibly become evergreen).
After Infect and now Day/Night, I think I'm going to get tired of the parasitic block mechanics. Hopefully I'm wrong.
Indeed, it could be crazy parasitic.
But hopefully, they can hedge against this parasitism by giving all day/night cards the ability to morph on their own, or at least most of them. For example, a day/night garruk who shifts himself would work in a vacuum just fine, even if he enables other day/night cards.
Compare that to "splice onto arcane", which did not work unless you based your entire deck around it *and* used cards from a limited pool. If day/night transitions are on all, or most, of the cards, or if that transition is enabled by something not parasitic (for example, casting 2 spells of any kind, as its rumored to be), then they would be only moderately insular design.
I mean, if each card works well in a vacuum and doesn't need each other, is it really parasitic?
Memnite, Ornithopter, and all the Kobolds disagree.
Well, I disagree with you, for those have a Converted Mana Cost of 0. They put the little gray circle ---> on top with the zero inside for a reason. It DOES have a converted mana cost of 0. Which means that you can cast it by paying ZERO mana. If it wasn't there you wouldn't be able to cast them at all...
Cards that have no CMC at all CAN'T BE CAST. HAve a look at the Suspend cycle back in Time Spiral.
Check the gatherer on such cards, it clearly states:
10/15/2006: This has no mana cost, which means it can't normally be cast as a spell. You could, however, cast it via some alternate means, like with Fist of Suns or Mind’s Desire.
10/15/2006: This has no mana cost, which means it can't be cast with the Replicate ability of Djinn Illuminatus or by somehow giving it Flashback.
I'm sure they'll make rules announcements regarding this... like the "changed form" keeps the casting cost of the "original." I think arguing about what is a token and what is not is simply silly at this point. We know these cards will have a special word used to describe them, and it is not likely going to be TOKEN.
My guess is day side has two + abilities, night side has two - abilities and both sides have "0: Transition from Day/Night". Very elegant.
EDIT: Also, there is pretty much no Day/Night implementation I can think up that isn't crazy parasitic. This may go down as a great block for block constructed/standard play and terrible for everything else. No other cards in the history of magic have cared about Day/Night, and I highly doubt cards in the future will either (in other words, Day/Night can't possibly become evergreen).
After Infect and now Day/Night, I think I'm going to get tired of the parasitic block mechanics. Hopefully I'm wrong.
Yeah. I agree completely. I'm not even sure where this day/night idea came from. It may be that rather than day/night triggering werewolf transformation, it could be triggered by anything Wizards wishes. And it would be until end of turn, or your next upkeep or something.
Examples
Whenever u cast 2 spells this turn, ~ becomes a 3/3 werewolf creature with some abilities until eot or beginning of your next upkeep or something.
Different creature could have
If another creature came into play this turn, ~ becomes blah, blah, blah.
Flavorwise this would represent werewolves not changing based on time of day, but at will, cause they can control their transformation. Would definitely make them a lot more powerful.
I'm sure they'll make rules announcements regarding this... like the "changed form" keeps the casting cost of the "original." I think arguing about what is a token and what is not is simply silly at this point. We know these cards will have a special word used to describe them, and it is not likely going to be TOKEN.
They should be treated as tokens as in the fact that if needed be, you take one you own from outside the game. NOw it's actual interaction should be more peculiar as since it should be put it into play on top of or replacing the "transforming creature". But should be treated as the same, wiith the same cMC and such.
This should be the reason for it to have no CMC. So that people won't confuse them with actual deck cards. I think of these as the "next generation of Tokens"
I know? that's what I said? see the bold text? Creatures with no mana cost are called tokens. (Dryad Arbor is a land). Hence im calling it a Creature that it's a land? Geez
I know? that's what I said? see the bold text? Creatures with no mana cost are called tokens. (Dryad Arbor is a land). Hence im calling it a Creature that it's a land? Geez
But Dryad Arbor is also a creature, with no mana cost...
And you don't even know what the actual text on the Alpha Wolf is, do you?
This should be the reason for it to have no CMC. So that people won't confuse them with actual deck cards.
I think this is key. People would be putting "Awesome werewolf LOL.dec" together and not know they need the "other half" to play. I think it's also why we see the little "3/3" on the Mayor.
like I said previously, maybe there is no day/night cycle being represneted here. Maybe the 2 spells thing just happens to be Mayor of Avabruck's transform trigger. Another creature can have another trigger. Maybe mechanic x is not day/night, but this transform
Indeed, it could be crazy parasitic.
But hopefully, they can hedge against this parasitism by giving all day/night cards the ability to morph on their own, or at least most of them. For example, a day/night garruk who shifts himself would work in a vacuum just fine, even if he enables other day/night cards.
Compare that to "splice onto arcane", which did not work unless you based your entire deck around it *and* used cards from a limited pool. If day/night transitions are on all, or most, of the cards, or if that transition is enabled by something not parasitic (for example, casting 2 spells of any kind, as its rumored to be), then they would be only moderately insular design.
I mean, if each card works well in a vacuum and doesn't need each other, is it really parasitic?
If the cards can morph on their own, then presumably game states could exist where some would be morphed and others wouldn't. But that does NOT jive with the "top-down" goal of "when it's night time, the werewolves transform". So it's a pretty big trade off, give up all the "cool flavor" factor that Day/Night gives, or get a crazy parasitic mechanic. I don't see how they can have the one and not the other.
Also, if I'm going to jump through whatever hoops one imagines will need to exist in order to make the Day/Night flip happen, I'm going to want as many cards in my deck to take advantage of that as possible. Which is pretty much textbook "parasitic". In other words, if I'm going through the trouble of forcing night to happen as often as possible, then I probably want more than just the Mayor in my deck to take advantage of night.
If I'm going to jump through the hoops to make my infect creatures matter, I'm going to want more infect creatures. I'm not going to just play 1 infect creature in my deck.
Well, I disagree with you, for those have a Converted Mana Cost of 0. They put the little gray circle ---> on top with the zero inside for a reason. It DOES have a converted mana cost of 0. Which means that you can cast it by paying ZERO mana. If it wasn't there you wouldn't be able to cast them at all...
Cards that have no CMC at all CAN'T BE CAST. HAve a look at the Suspend cycle back in Time Spiral.
Check the gatherer on such cards, it clearly states:
10/15/2006: This has no mana cost, which means it can't normally be cast as a spell. You could, however, cast it via some alternate means, like with Fist of Suns or Mind’s Desire.
10/15/2006: This has no mana cost, which means it can't be cast with the Replicate ability of Djinn Illuminatus or by somehow giving it Flashback.
You said no mana cost, not no converted mana cost. Big difference in this game of Magic.
@Silex Flint:
to be fair. As far as I have read (s)he never said that creatures with mana costs are not called tokens. So you should also consider your own counsel.
This should be the reason for it to have no CMC. So that people won't confuse them with actual deck cards. I think of these as the "next generation of Tokens"
Every creature - even tokens - have a CMC. Hypergenesis has a CMC.
I know? that's what I said? see the bold text? Creatures with no mana cost are called tokens. (Dryad Arbor is a land). Hence im calling it a Creature that it's a land? Geez
Dryad Arbor is a land.
That's true. And it has nothing to do with the following:
It also is a creature. It also has no mana cost. It also is not a token and is not called such as far as I know.
You mix up stuff in your statements and should reconsider whether what you said is actually what you wanted to say.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Planar Chaos was not a mistake neither was it random. You might want to look at it again.
[thread=239793][Game] Level Up - Creature[/thread]
Considering that we've had non-creature spells with no mana cost, a creature spell without a mana cost is perfectly feasible.
Although the token mechanic seems more likely.
Also, I think I know why they gave the token a name: It's so they don't have to write out all the abilities on the original card. The name could be used as shorthand for the specific Wolf token, allowing them to not have gigantic walls of text involving the transformation mechanic.
Thanks to Syndarion of Aeternal Studios for my sig!
And this Day/Night state has to be global, affecting both players at the same time, otherwise it would make no sense. As someone else has said previously, it makes no damn sense for my creatures to be in Night mode while yours are in Day mode. Unless they are thousands of miles apart, or each creature has their own time bubble. Both sound dumb.
They both say prerelease on the card.
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the amazing sig.
NO RUG: Primer
Tempo Thresh: Primer
Me:Cast Mayor, counter your removal. Somehow get him to transform. Go.
You: Your Mayor transforms back as you played 2 spells last turn.
Me:This card is stupid.
Keeping track of Storm count can be silly at times, paying attention to how many spells were cast on a previous turns sounds irritating at best.
Even if he can only change back on my upkeep, my opponent can just dump his hand to give me a 1/1 on my turn. And I won't get the 2/2 token. And my wolves will suck.
We already HAVE Defender thanks.
Best case if that's how it works is it's a Standstill with no card advantage attached.
Or say the passing of time. Novel thought, right? Using the passing of time to actually indicate the passing of time!
If indeed this is way the day/night mechanic works, then it would have to count each round of turns as opposed to just individual turns. Because if I start and its day, then your turn its night... I will always be stuck in day, and you will always be stuck in night. Must exist as a global time-state allowing both players to do things in the current time-state.
My guess is day side has two + abilities, night side has two - abilities and both sides have "0: Transition from Day/Night". Very elegant.
EDIT: Also, there is pretty much no Day/Night implementation I can think up that isn't crazy parasitic. This may go down as a great block for block constructed/standard play and terrible for everything else. No other cards in the history of magic have cared about Day/Night, and I highly doubt cards in the future will either (in other words, Day/Night can't possibly become evergreen).
After Infect and now Day/Night, I think I'm going to get tired of the parasitic block mechanics. Hopefully I'm wrong.
Not quite following what you mean.
So garruk will be able to control time....
No fuss no muss.
Memnite, Ornithopter, and all the Kobolds disagree.
My twitter account: @Kengy5
My blog about cube:
Slaughter Cry
Yes but those had a way to be cast built in AKA Suspend. The wolf card has no clause allowing it to be cast at all by it's own means. Which would be a terrible design IMO if you're forced to put "unplayable" cards in your deck so that a weakling 1/1 is of use. Or even worse, in a Draft, where you would be forced to choose between the useless 1/1 guy or the unplayable wolf. The card on it's own makes little to no sense being a creature spell. the A and B theory furthers this idea even more. For you can get the "Mayor" or the "wolf". Since in the end it's the same card but in different stages. Think of it like having tokens for the level up creatures, it's just for aesthetics. Or having tokens for Figure of Destiny. Rather than just stacking all the phases of such a creature in a small image box and give it no abilities, they just make "tokens" that you could slap over the creature itself, and treat both the Token and the creature as one, so as to greater enhance the flavor of the game.
NeoFinnity... A Control Affinity Primer
Indeed, it could be crazy parasitic.
But hopefully, they can hedge against this parasitism by giving all day/night cards the ability to morph on their own, or at least most of them. For example, a day/night garruk who shifts himself would work in a vacuum just fine, even if he enables other day/night cards.
Compare that to "splice onto arcane", which did not work unless you based your entire deck around it *and* used cards from a limited pool. If day/night transitions are on all, or most, of the cards, or if that transition is enabled by something not parasitic (for example, casting 2 spells of any kind, as its rumored to be), then they would be only moderately insular design.
I mean, if each card works well in a vacuum and doesn't need each other, is it really parasitic?
They have a mana cost, its 0
Evermind does not have a mana cost, for example.
Well, I disagree with you, for those have a Converted Mana Cost of 0. They put the little gray circle ---> on top with the zero inside for a reason. It DOES have a converted mana cost of 0. Which means that you can cast it by paying ZERO mana. If it wasn't there you wouldn't be able to cast them at all...
Cards that have no CMC at all CAN'T BE CAST. HAve a look at the Suspend cycle back in Time Spiral.
Check the gatherer on such cards, it clearly states:
Hypergenesis
10/15/2006: This has no mana cost, which means it can't normally be cast as a spell. You could, however, cast it via some alternate means, like with Fist of Suns or Mind’s Desire.
10/15/2006: This has no mana cost, which means it can't be cast with the Replicate ability of Djinn Illuminatus or by somehow giving it Flashback.
NeoFinnity... A Control Affinity Primer
Yeah. I agree completely. I'm not even sure where this day/night idea came from. It may be that rather than day/night triggering werewolf transformation, it could be triggered by anything Wizards wishes. And it would be until end of turn, or your next upkeep or something.
Examples
Whenever u cast 2 spells this turn, ~ becomes a 3/3 werewolf creature with some abilities until eot or beginning of your next upkeep or something.
Different creature could have
If another creature came into play this turn, ~ becomes blah, blah, blah.
Flavorwise this would represent werewolves not changing based on time of day, but at will, cause they can control their transformation. Would definitely make them a lot more powerful.
Just sayin'.
(Dryad Arbor is also a creature)
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
Factions: Sleeping
Remnants: Valheim
Legendary Journey: Heroes & Planeswalkers
Saga: Shards of Rabiah
Legends: The Elder Dragons
Read up on Red Flags & NWO
They should be treated as tokens as in the fact that if needed be, you take one you own from outside the game. NOw it's actual interaction should be more peculiar as since it should be put it into play on top of or replacing the "transforming creature". But should be treated as the same, wiith the same cMC and such.
This should be the reason for it to have no CMC. So that people won't confuse them with actual deck cards. I think of these as the "next generation of Tokens"
I know? that's what I said? see the bold text? Creatures with no mana cost are called tokens. (Dryad Arbor is a land). Hence im calling it a Creature that it's a land? Geez
NeoFinnity... A Control Affinity Primer
But Dryad Arbor is also a creature, with no mana cost...
And you don't even know what the actual text on the Alpha Wolf is, do you?
My twitter account: @Kengy5
My blog about cube:
Slaughter Cry
I think this is key. People would be putting "Awesome werewolf LOL.dec" together and not know they need the "other half" to play. I think it's also why we see the little "3/3" on the Mayor.
If the cards can morph on their own, then presumably game states could exist where some would be morphed and others wouldn't. But that does NOT jive with the "top-down" goal of "when it's night time, the werewolves transform". So it's a pretty big trade off, give up all the "cool flavor" factor that Day/Night gives, or get a crazy parasitic mechanic. I don't see how they can have the one and not the other.
Also, if I'm going to jump through whatever hoops one imagines will need to exist in order to make the Day/Night flip happen, I'm going to want as many cards in my deck to take advantage of that as possible. Which is pretty much textbook "parasitic". In other words, if I'm going through the trouble of forcing night to happen as often as possible, then I probably want more than just the Mayor in my deck to take advantage of night.
If I'm going to jump through the hoops to make my infect creatures matter, I'm going to want more infect creatures. I'm not going to just play 1 infect creature in my deck.
You said no mana cost, not no converted mana cost. Big difference in this game of Magic.
My twitter account: @Kengy5
My blog about cube:
Slaughter Cry
to be fair. As far as I have read (s)he never said that creatures with mana costs are not called tokens. So you should also consider your own counsel.
Every creature - even tokens - have a CMC. Hypergenesis has a CMC.
Dryad Arbor is a land.
That's true. And it has nothing to do with the following:
It also is a creature. It also has no mana cost. It also is not a token and is not called such as far as I know.
You mix up stuff in your statements and should reconsider whether what you said is actually what you wanted to say.
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
Factions: Sleeping
Remnants: Valheim
Legendary Journey: Heroes & Planeswalkers
Saga: Shards of Rabiah
Legends: The Elder Dragons
Read up on Red Flags & NWO
He said no mana cost.
Cards with no mana cost are:
Lands
Tokens
Cards printed with no mana cost (Hypergenesis)
I don't see what the confusion is.
@Silex - Tokens have a CMC of 0, whether they are a copy of a creature or not.
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the amazing sig.
NO RUG: Primer
Tempo Thresh: Primer
Actually I do, I did read the whole thread...
Les autres créatures Loup-garou et Loup que vous controlez gagnent +1/+1
Au début de votre étape de fin, mettez sur le champ de bataille un jeton de créature 2/2 verte Loup.
Au début de chaque entretien, si un joueur a lancé au moins deux sorts au tour précédent, transformez l’Alpha hurlemeute.
Which roughly translates to:
At the beginning of your upkeep, put a 2/2 green Wolf creature token onto the battlefield.
At the beginning of each upkeep, if a player cast at least two spells during the previous turn, sacrifice Howlpack Alpha.
@SecretInfiltrator: Hypegenesis has no CMC. It's actually written down in EVERMIND's textbox for christ's sake
@Silex: Token creatures, no matter where or what or when they came from... have a CMC of 0
No mana cost means No number on top. Converted mana cost is the sum of all colored and colorless mana. No mana cost means it can't be cast at all...
NeoFinnity... A Control Affinity Primer