I don't think Wizards thinks as much about Legacy and other eternal format as you seem to think. If they thought about how cards would effect Legacy Mental Misstep might not have been printed. Legacy and Modern have large ban lists so they can take care of any problem with broken interactions via bannings
That's just not true. Wizards cares a great deal about older format, especially so now with Modern. Mental Misstep was printed directly to target the older formats but I don't think Wizards saw how powerful the card truly was. Spell Pierce, Nature's Claim, Mindbreak Trap are all cards that prove they care.
I think that this is some of the funniest speculation I have read on this forum. It's quite clear that this mechanic is novel and we have no idea how it works, but hopefully they implement it in a cool way!
I don't think Wizards thinks as much about Legacy and other eternal format as you seem to think. If they thought about how cards would effect Legacy Mental Misstep might not have been printed. Legacy and Modern have large ban lists so they can take care of any problem with broken interactions via bannings
Mental Misstep was printed specifically for vintage and legacy. They wanted to slow those formats down... they just didn't think all of the ramifications through. It did its job in slowing the format down, but it made the format worse because it pushed a lot of viable strategies out.
This interaction, in particular, is too obvious and too broken for them to miss. UNLESS, it's difficult to turn on the "night" cycle. In which case cheating some big werewolf into play might not be all that great until you can switch it to "night".
I'm not sure if this has been suggested yet, but here's my speculation.
Day and night alternate every other turn, so the mayors p/t change every other turn.
Or maybe he "transforms" during the attack phase, during the "full moon"?
EDIT: I'd be assuming the card abilities stay the same.
Personally, what I think you do with the cards is going to be something fans of Draft tournaments are not going to like hearing. Mayor of Avabrook and Howlpack Alpha are two completely separate cards. The 3/3 on the side of Mayor of Avabrook is the maximum size Werewolf card you can replace it with when day shifts to night. There will probably also be a color restriction where Red Humans can only be Red Werewolves and vice versa.
I've thought about this, but I find it unlikely for multiple reasons:
1. Multiple different humans will be able to transform into the same wolf. This renders the design of any human card as meaningless, seeing as any human could get the same wolf so long as they have the same "max size."
2. If this were the case, why would both of these cards be shown? It seems very obvious to me that these cards are meant to be together; if the Mayor could interact with any werewolf card below 3/3...why include that specific one?
3. This goes along with the above points, but the arts on each of the cards corresponds to the other. There is a direct synergy between these two specific cards.
Because at the time it was speculation. Now we have actual evidence, therefore its a rumor. Just because you guessed right doesn't mean you weren't speculating.
On topic:
I've seen a lot of people saying something along the lines of "if all the information is right there on the mayor version, why isn't it just a flip card?"
The obvious answer: Flip cards can't flip back. These can, and they don't come with the same memory issues.
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"I am confident that if anyone actually
penetrates our facades, even the most
perceptive would still be fundamentally
unprepared for the truth of House Dimir."
Because at the time it was speculation. Now we have actual evidence, therefore its a rumor. Just because you guessed right doesn't mean you weren't speculating.
On topic:
I've seen a lot of people saying something along the lines of "if all the information is right there on the mayor version, why isn't it just a flip card?"
The obvious answer: Flip cards can't flip back. These can, and they don't come with the same memory issues.
If that's the case, why doesn't the wolf form have the 1/1 of the mayor in that odd templating in the lower right? That's bugging me too. I agree these change back somehow, but it's puzzling.
Because conservative bias is a far, far worse thing. Liberal bias doesn't, statistically speaking, make people stupid. Conservative bias (or at least Fox's version of it) does.
So here's an idea. What if we've got it backwards? what if the "actual card" is double sided, and comes with a "token" with the standard card back that you would use as a placeholder in your deck?
In draft, you set any double-sided cards aside, like you would with tokens and lands, and if you want the double-sided card, you take the placeholder. In constructed, you leave any double sided cards on the side, or in your deck box, or what ever you would do with your sideboard, etc. and when you play the placeholder card you just swap it with the double sided version.
It's not perfect, and I honestly don't think that's how it's going to work, but its an idea to get us thinking outside the box.
Also, this is the only way I can think of where I would be even mildly ok with double sided cards.
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"I am confident that if anyone actually
penetrates our facades, even the most
perceptive would still be fundamentally
unprepared for the truth of House Dimir."
Read the thread. We have buried the double-sided theory under six feet of argumentation.
I have been reading the thread actually and people are still persisting that double-sided is a thing when it surely is not. I've actually read the entire thread start to finish.
I think it's simply a Token. A mechanic for the card can be that, after certain turn (say, after your 7th turn) night falls and each creature becomes a werewolf. This would be interesting because you can have an army of puny creatures that eventually, after X turns, turns into a massive army of werewolves (nightfall). This is all just speculation of course but it is very flavorful. You start dueling during daytime but as turns go by, time goes by and we get closer to nightfall, and danger approaches.
So here's an idea. What if we've got it backwards? what if the "actual card" is double sided, and comes with a "token" with the standard card back that you would use as a placeholder in your deck?
In draft, you set any double-sided cards aside, like you would with tokens and lands, and if you want the double-sided card, you take the placeholder. In constructed, you leave any double sided cards on the side, or in your deck box, or what ever you would do with your sideboard, etc. and when you play the placeholder card you just swap it with the double sided version.
It's not perfect, and I honestly don't think that's how it's going to work, but its an idea to get us thinking outside the box.
Also, this is the only way I can think of where I would be even mildly ok with double sided cards.
The problem is that token cards aren't true "cards." Also, in order for that to work, they would have to ensure that the "token" and the "true card" appeared in the same pack. No matter how they swing a two card arrangement, it would be a dead giveaway that a pack has a night/day combo, whether or not you had to discard the token or put both cards in your hand. The visual cues that would supply to opponents simply would not work for drafting. And if you happened to be collaberating with someone in your pod (ei cheating), that would be a fairly obvious cue to say "hey, this is my strategy, pass me the necessary cards."
the only thing that seems weird is...if they make 2 separate cards for the werewolves (with one being a token overlay) how will that work in draft? do i get to take the rare and corresponding token? And they can't change the back of a magic card so you can't have 2 sides....and it doesn't look like it will be a flip card (even tho this makes the MOST sense).
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Giant Growth: Yeah, Richard! You make those "3-of-something-for-1-mana" cards!
Healing Salve: Go, Richard! Keep that cycle going!
Lightning Bolt: Wow, dude, that's really powerful. Make sure to keep this common-appropriate!
Dark Ritual: What are you doing? That's obviously better than the other three!
Ancestral Recall: Seriously? You want us to make this a common? Really?
I think these two are connected.
Why?
Simple.
Mayor.
Alpha.
He's the alpha male in human form AND the alpha male of the howlpack.
It makes sense that the packleader would also lead them while they're humans.
As a sidenote, I hope we get a human lord in innistrad and someday get something to benefit the advisor type.
Making an advisor deck (this guy and Bob lol) would be pretty cool.
As another, fingers crossed for a Bob reprint in this block, since we know Human Advisor types do exist in this block, and he'd fit as a Skirsdag member.
The problem is that token cards aren't true "cards." Also, in order for that to work, they would have to ensure that the "token" and the "true card" appeared in the same pack. No matter how they swing a two card arrangement, it would be a dead giveaway that a pack has a night/day combo, whether or not you had to discard the token or put both cards in your hand. The visual cues that would supply to opponents simply would not work for drafting. And if you happened to be collaberating with someone in your pod (ei cheating), that would be a fairly obvious cue to say "hey, this is my strategy, pass me the necessary cards."
Crap I forgot about drafting. Yeah I guess tokens wouldn't work that well.
I hope wotc finds an elegant solution.
Personally, what I think you do with the cards is going to be something fans of Draft tournaments are not going to like hearing. Mayor of Avabrook and Howlpack Alpha are two completely separate cards. The 3/3 on the side of Mayor of Avabrook is the maximum size Werewolf card you can replace it with when day shifts to night. There will probably also be a color restriction where Red Humans can only be Red Werewolves and vice versa.
That would kill a lot of flavor characterization. For example, the shocking revelation that the mayor is actually the leader of the wolfpack. So, during the day, and unadvertently, he plans his own demise.
Creative would never allow that, in good sense. Allowing any human to turn into any werewolf would not allow any creature to be unique, as they would all have to generic enough to make sense.
Personally I believe it will be two separate cards, and you will place the "night" card over the "day" card when it becomes night. Now I also believe that the reason the human has a P/T above its normal P/T, in this case 3/3, is that it means that you can place any 3/3 on top of it when it becomes night. It would work kind of like Champion, but use P/T instead of creature type and be specific to these cards.
And to solve the flavor issue there would only be werewolves that fit the theme of the humans that turn into them.
Personally I believe it will be two separate cards, and you will place the "night" card over the "day" card when it becomes night. Now I also believe that the reason the human has a P/T above its normal P/T, in this case 3/3, is that it means that you can place any 3/3 on top of it when it becomes night. It would work kind of like Champion, but use P/T instead of creature type and be specific to these cards.
The problem with that is Green Sun's Zenith. I'll pay one mana for a 3/3 that makes a 2/2 (3/3) every turn.
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Legacy - Cat Sligh:symr::symg::symw:
Modern - Green & Taxes:symw::symg:
Standard - Illusions:symu::symb:
Sorry to post this, but I am not going to sift though 45 pages.
Has CSI enchanced the image yet?
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Originally Posted by Massive Marc
You know back in the old days, when there wasn't EDH, these "griefer" cards in decks were the norm. If you played a Winter Orb when you're opponents were tapped out, it was a good play. Now, you get people tell you they wanna punch you ? It's really sad how carebare this format is, to the point that some loser has to rip up your cards.
That's just not true. Wizards cares a great deal about older format, especially so now with Modern. Mental Misstep was printed directly to target the older formats but I don't think Wizards saw how powerful the card truly was. Spell Pierce, Nature's Claim, Mindbreak Trap are all cards that prove they care.
BGStandard Green AggroGB
UWRGModern Saheeli CobraGRWU
UBRGLegacy StormGRBU
Wizards Certified Rules Advisor
Mental Misstep was printed specifically for vintage and legacy. They wanted to slow those formats down... they just didn't think all of the ramifications through. It did its job in slowing the format down, but it made the format worse because it pushed a lot of viable strategies out.
This interaction, in particular, is too obvious and too broken for them to miss. UNLESS, it's difficult to turn on the "night" cycle. In which case cheating some big werewolf into play might not be all that great until you can switch it to "night".
Day and night alternate every other turn, so the mayors p/t change every other turn.
Or maybe he "transforms" during the attack phase, during the "full moon"?
EDIT: I'd be assuming the card abilities stay the same.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=341452
And my thread got moved from speculation. :/
Unless your being sarcastic, his theory is unlikely. The card numbers are the same, so that would suggest that the two cards are specifically linked.
U/B Control
I wasn't being sarcastic, since that version of the mechanic would explain the different card names. The card number may just be a suggestion.
But yeah, I guess it does put a dent in that theory.:-/
Thanks to Syndarion of Aeternal Studios for my sig!
I've thought about this, but I find it unlikely for multiple reasons:
1. Multiple different humans will be able to transform into the same wolf. This renders the design of any human card as meaningless, seeing as any human could get the same wolf so long as they have the same "max size."
2. If this were the case, why would both of these cards be shown? It seems very obvious to me that these cards are meant to be together; if the Mayor could interact with any werewolf card below 3/3...why include that specific one?
3. This goes along with the above points, but the arts on each of the cards corresponds to the other. There is a direct synergy between these two specific cards.
Split -> Flip -> (Day/Night)
Phasing -> Champion -> (Day/Night)
What if the Alpha is a token "transformed" from the mayor during a certain trigger?
Because at the time it was speculation. Now we have actual evidence, therefore its a rumor. Just because you guessed right doesn't mean you weren't speculating.
On topic:
I've seen a lot of people saying something along the lines of "if all the information is right there on the mayor version, why isn't it just a flip card?"
The obvious answer: Flip cards can't flip back. These can, and they don't come with the same memory issues.
"I am confident that if anyone actually
penetrates our facades, even the most
perceptive would still be fundamentally
unprepared for the truth of House Dimir."
Seems completely different other than night/day, which has been speculated for months. "Called" shots really ain't what they used to be...
My twitter account: @Kengy5
My blog about cube:
Slaughter Cry
If that's the case, why doesn't the wolf form have the 1/1 of the mayor in that odd templating in the lower right? That's bugging me too. I agree these change back somehow, but it's puzzling.
In draft, you set any double-sided cards aside, like you would with tokens and lands, and if you want the double-sided card, you take the placeholder. In constructed, you leave any double sided cards on the side, or in your deck box, or what ever you would do with your sideboard, etc. and when you play the placeholder card you just swap it with the double sided version.
It's not perfect, and I honestly don't think that's how it's going to work, but its an idea to get us thinking outside the box.
Also, this is the only way I can think of where I would be even mildly ok with double sided cards.
"I am confident that if anyone actually
penetrates our facades, even the most
perceptive would still be fundamentally
unprepared for the truth of House Dimir."
I have been reading the thread actually and people are still persisting that double-sided is a thing when it surely is not. I've actually read the entire thread start to finish.
Oh and I think it'll be tokens. I see no other way until the tell us the true way.
Thanx to Bookworm10 for the Sig.
Check out my YouTube Channel https://www.youtube.com/user/ThyrixSyx
Cockatrice: shadowkill
Rules Adviser
The problem is that token cards aren't true "cards." Also, in order for that to work, they would have to ensure that the "token" and the "true card" appeared in the same pack. No matter how they swing a two card arrangement, it would be a dead giveaway that a pack has a night/day combo, whether or not you had to discard the token or put both cards in your hand. The visual cues that would supply to opponents simply would not work for drafting. And if you happened to be collaberating with someone in your pod (ei cheating), that would be a fairly obvious cue to say "hey, this is my strategy, pass me the necessary cards."
GGG [Primer] Omnath, Big Green Beatstick Machine GGG
Healing Salve: Go, Richard! Keep that cycle going!
Lightning Bolt: Wow, dude, that's really powerful. Make sure to keep this common-appropriate!
Dark Ritual: What are you doing? That's obviously better than the other three!
Ancestral Recall: Seriously? You want us to make this a common? Really?
Why?
Simple.
Mayor.
Alpha.
He's the alpha male in human form AND the alpha male of the howlpack.
It makes sense that the packleader would also lead them while they're humans.
As a sidenote, I hope we get a human lord in innistrad and someday get something to benefit the advisor type.
Making an advisor deck (this guy and Bob lol) would be pretty cool.
As another, fingers crossed for a Bob reprint in this block, since we know Human Advisor types do exist in this block, and he'd fit as a Skirsdag member.
UWBSharuum the HegemonBWU
UAzami, Lady of ScrollsU
UGMomir Vig, Simic VisionaryGU
GAzusa, Lost but SeekingG
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestGU
Crap I forgot about drafting. Yeah I guess tokens wouldn't work that well.
I hope wotc finds an elegant solution.
Thanx to Bookworm10 for the Sig.
Check out my YouTube Channel https://www.youtube.com/user/ThyrixSyx
Cockatrice: shadowkill
Rules Adviser
That would kill a lot of flavor characterization. For example, the shocking revelation that the mayor is actually the leader of the wolfpack. So, during the day, and unadvertently, he plans his own demise.
Creative would never allow that, in good sense. Allowing any human to turn into any werewolf would not allow any creature to be unique, as they would all have to generic enough to make sense.
And to solve the flavor issue there would only be werewolves that fit the theme of the humans that turn into them.
The problem with that is Green Sun's Zenith. I'll pay one mana for a 3/3 that makes a 2/2 (3/3) every turn.
Modern - Green & Taxes:symw::symg:
Standard - Illusions:symu::symb:
Has CSI enchanced the image yet?
You know back in the old days, when there wasn't EDH, these "griefer" cards in decks were the norm. If you played a Winter Orb when you're opponents were tapped out, it was a good play. Now, you get people tell you they wanna punch you ? It's really sad how carebare this format is, to the point that some loser has to rip up your cards.
Except that I said it would work like Champion, so yeah you would get a 3/3 but you would immediately sacrifice it.