which problems are greater then running marked cards and a totally rules overhowl?
Well, mostly the fact that double-card combos are narrow, inelegant and unworkable in Limited formats (especially Draft).
whats the problem with for example what several have suggested (and i think like it will be) with everything relevant on the mayor card and the werewolf just beeing a token which is just for those who want a real werewolf lying there when the mayor transforms?
like this:
If the werewolf were a token, why wouldn't it have a token frame?
Why wouldn't it say "Token" like other tokens do?
Why wouldn't it have a separate collector number like other tokens do?
Why would its expansion symbol be rare, unlike other tokens?
Why would they feel the need to print a token on the back of the oversized promo version of another card?
Why would they waste an additional rare slot on a card that isn't strictly necessary?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Thou shalt not have others of the same Legendary before me Thou shalt not frame images with the modern card face Thou shalt not change rules in vain Remember the Reserved List to keep it holy Honor thy Slivers and the symmetry of their abilities Thou shalt not kill mana burn Thou shalt not sacrifice depth for accessibility Thou shalt not steal combat damage from the stack Thou shalt tell a story through thy cards All must be one
I really don't get it yet....I can see three possibilities:
1) Double-sided card:
-Has issues with drafting. Has issues playing without sleeves. Has issues in that you'll break more sleaves constantly taking the card out to slip it.
2) Two cards, getting both at the same time in a pack:
-Has issues with drafting. Has issues with the possibility of losing one of the two cards. Has issues with the possibility of getting more than one "dual card" in a pack, and knowing that there are extra cards in a pack before you even open it.
3) Split Cards - Split cards have never been done as permanents for memory issues. Also, the text would get tiny. Also, the image of the wolf makes it look like the wolf is a card of it's own.
The double-sided card still has issues, but it seems like the lesser of two evils.
I'm hoping there is another way that we're all missing here.
cause its no token
its just the same card as the mayor but with a differant image to fit the flavor for those who want it
But you just said that it was a token!
But if you were using "token" as a blanket term as pandafarmer suggests, why would Wizards print something that acts like a token but is not actually a token?
[EDIT]:
The double-sided card still has issues, but it seems like the lesser of two evils.
Agreed completely. (Except, weren't there more than two evils?)
And to everyone who's trying to convince me double-sided cards are out of the question: Please try harder, you're having the opposite effect.
Thou shalt not have others of the same Legendary before me Thou shalt not frame images with the modern card face Thou shalt not change rules in vain Remember the Reserved List to keep it holy Honor thy Slivers and the symmetry of their abilities Thou shalt not kill mana burn Thou shalt not sacrifice depth for accessibility Thou shalt not steal combat damage from the stack Thou shalt tell a story through thy cards All must be one
Its not a token its more like a nifty sort of reminder text etc.
Its the same number and will take up the token slot/reminder card in the packs where the card coincides.
You dont draft the mayor and the wolf, the wolf is treated like tokens are treated.
When you transform the mayor, however that maybe, we dont know you take the wolf and place it over the token. But you dont have to because the mayor indicates what his p/t is above his untransformed power and toughness.
The day/night symbols are the improved gravestones from odyssey block, they pop out visually more but simply tell you the card does something with day and night.
PEOPLE ARE JUST USING TOKEN AS PARLANCE, ITS NOT A TOKEN ITS JUST A NEAT WAY TO PORTRAY THE SAME CARD.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Don't you see that the whole aim of Moderators is to narrow the range of thought? In the end we shall make infractions literally impossible, because there will be no words in which to express it. Every concept that can ever be needed, will be expressed by exactly one word, with its meaning rigidly defined and all its subsidiary meanings rubbed out and forgotten.
What if they were the same card but with different arts? What if all cards that have different effects at day/night had two different arts for each one?
They could have a text like this:
"blablabla
if night, mayor is a 3/3 werewolf creature
- - - - - -
As long as it's night, this creature gains blablabla
Two other questions:
The cardface in that foil french card picture. The text is white. Cardface looks like planar chaos. Another cardface AGAIN?!
Second question: How the **** are you supposed to trade and sell these cards? Magic is a trading card game, after all. I believe that these are just 2 seperate cards, one a token, the other one a normal card, and the token will always be included in the pack that also has the card. Two sided cards would just destroy the tournament scene if you had to play with them. Then again, imagine buying cards at SCG or MKM.
Garruk A: 30$
Garruk B: 15$
I'm calling this now: This will increase the price of powerful mythic cards A LOT.
Day/Night Garruk with two unique abilities for each respective cycle and a shared ultimate. Plausible?
Or the cards are like the Brothers Samurai legends from Kamigawa and artistically different yet the same card.
And the wolf isnt a playable card but just a way to annotate transformation.
The wolf cant be put into your deck, similar to token cards.
Its like the poison counters in SOM.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Don't you see that the whole aim of Moderators is to narrow the range of thought? In the end we shall make infractions literally impossible, because there will be no words in which to express it. Every concept that can ever be needed, will be expressed by exactly one word, with its meaning rigidly defined and all its subsidiary meanings rubbed out and forgotten.
As much fun as the idea of a two sided card might be, I have a hard time believing that they'd make an unplayable limited card, or require players to use sleeves. I think the "token representation" of a card is far more plausible, and that you don't need the one to play with the other. It would kind of ruin magic if they started printing on the backs of cards too. Not to mention how much of a logistical nightmare that would be for the printers. Also, it's probably going to be a pain in the neck to pack each werewolf with it's own token as well. Maybe they'll only do it for the rares.
what if they print rarity in token cards,not the token card taking up the slot of the rare.like have you ever wondered why its easier to get goblin token cards compared to wurmcoil engine tokens?
Or am I just unlucky when it comes to pulling useful or specific tokens?
what if they print rarity in token cards,not the token card taking up the slot of the rare.like have you ever wondered why its easier to get goblin token cards compared to wurmcoil engine tokens?
Or am I just unlucky when it comes to pulling useful or specific tokens?
Tokens do have different "rarities" corresponding to how many cards/what rarities of cards produce that kind of token in the set/block. Only one mythic rare produces the Wurmcoil tokens so those show up far less often than, say, 1/1 Insects with infect.
whats the reason to print the werewolf P/T onto the mayor card then?
To remind you what his future P/T will be, possibly. If they're already changing the card frame to include the sun/moon symbol, adding an additional little visual reminder for the card's future form isn't unreasonable to add as well. The Level Up mechanic showed the benefits of being able to present information of that sort visually rather than through text.
Would be sweet mechanically if it worked my way... But youre probably right.
Well, mostly the fact that double-card combos are narrow, inelegant and unworkable in Limited formats (especially Draft).
If the werewolf were a token, why wouldn't it have a token frame?
Why wouldn't it say "Token" like other tokens do?
Why wouldn't it have a separate collector number like other tokens do?
Why would its expansion symbol be rare, unlike other tokens?
Why would they feel the need to print a token on the back of the oversized promo version of another card?
Why would they waste an additional rare slot on a card that isn't strictly necessary?
Thou shalt not frame images with the modern card face
Thou shalt not change rules in vain
Remember the Reserved List to keep it holy
Honor thy Slivers and the symmetry of their abilities
Thou shalt not kill mana burn
Thou shalt not sacrifice depth for accessibility
Thou shalt not steal combat damage from the stack
Thou shalt tell a story through thy cards
All must be one
Welcome to the party. Hi, how are you doing.
1) Double-sided card:
-Has issues with drafting. Has issues playing without sleeves. Has issues in that you'll break more sleaves constantly taking the card out to slip it.
2) Two cards, getting both at the same time in a pack:
-Has issues with drafting. Has issues with the possibility of losing one of the two cards. Has issues with the possibility of getting more than one "dual card" in a pack, and knowing that there are extra cards in a pack before you even open it.
3) Split Cards - Split cards have never been done as permanents for memory issues. Also, the text would get tiny. Also, the image of the wolf makes it look like the wolf is a card of it's own.
The double-sided card still has issues, but it seems like the lesser of two evils.
I'm hoping there is another way that we're all missing here.
[[b]B]DCI Level 2 Judge[/B][/b]WAT
Wow that makes sense in a scary way. I wonder how ridiculous a double-sided card setup would be it it's required? Here's hoping it isn't...
:symu::symr: Melek WheelStorm
:symw::symg: Trostani Enchantress (updated 6/5)
:symg::symr::symu: Unexpected Results.dec
Thada Adel Stax WIP
Tokens + Card as real cards
T2 powpercube Value https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/37t
But you just said that it was a token!
But if you were using "token" as a blanket term as pandafarmer suggests, why would Wizards print something that acts like a token but is not actually a token?
[EDIT]:
Agreed completely. (Except, weren't there more than two evils?)
And to everyone who's trying to convince me double-sided cards are out of the question: Please try harder, you're having the opposite effect.
Thou shalt not frame images with the modern card face
Thou shalt not change rules in vain
Remember the Reserved List to keep it holy
Honor thy Slivers and the symmetry of their abilities
Thou shalt not kill mana burn
Thou shalt not sacrifice depth for accessibility
Thou shalt not steal combat damage from the stack
Thou shalt tell a story through thy cards
All must be one
Its not a token its more like a nifty sort of reminder text etc.
Its the same number and will take up the token slot/reminder card in the packs where the card coincides.
You dont draft the mayor and the wolf, the wolf is treated like tokens are treated.
When you transform the mayor, however that maybe, we dont know you take the wolf and place it over the token. But you dont have to because the mayor indicates what his p/t is above his untransformed power and toughness.
The day/night symbols are the improved gravestones from odyssey block, they pop out visually more but simply tell you the card does something with day and night.
PEOPLE ARE JUST USING TOKEN AS PARLANCE, ITS NOT A TOKEN ITS JUST A NEAT WAY TO PORTRAY THE SAME CARD.
meat's Trade Corner
They could have a text like this:
"blablabla
if night, mayor is a 3/3 werewolf creature
- - - - - -
As long as it's night, this creature gains blablabla
3/3"
The cardface in that foil french card picture. The text is white. Cardface looks like planar chaos. Another cardface AGAIN?!
Second question: How the **** are you supposed to trade and sell these cards? Magic is a trading card game, after all. I believe that these are just 2 seperate cards, one a token, the other one a normal card, and the token will always be included in the pack that also has the card. Two sided cards would just destroy the tournament scene if you had to play with them. Then again, imagine buying cards at SCG or MKM.
Garruk A: 30$
Garruk B: 15$
I'm calling this now: This will increase the price of powerful mythic cards A LOT.
Or the cards are like the Brothers Samurai legends from Kamigawa and artistically different yet the same card.
And the wolf isnt a playable card but just a way to annotate transformation.
The wolf cant be put into your deck, similar to token cards.
Its like the poison counters in SOM.
I'm with the 1.5 card theory, with all the text on the Mayor and the "token" werewolf is just icing on the cake.
DracoBall: http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/casual-related-formats/homebrew-variant-formats/598529-dracoball-updated-3-24-15
Fantastic Fours: http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/casual-related-formats/homebrew-variant-formats/603605-fantastic-fours
Day/Night packs?
Or am I just unlucky when it comes to pulling useful or specific tokens?
Tokens do have different "rarities" corresponding to how many cards/what rarities of cards produce that kind of token in the set/block. Only one mythic rare produces the Wurmcoil tokens so those show up far less often than, say, 1/1 Insects with infect.
R Citizen Cane (Feldon of the Third Path)
To remind you what his future P/T will be, possibly. If they're already changing the card frame to include the sun/moon symbol, adding an additional little visual reminder for the card's future form isn't unreasonable to add as well. The Level Up mechanic showed the benefits of being able to present information of that sort visually rather than through text.
R Citizen Cane (Feldon of the Third Path)