I'm highly skeptical of the new cards being real, but I don't really thing that the phyexian mana symbols are a strong indicator of fakes.
On the one hand, MaRo has talked about making sure to leave design space open, and tying the mana symbol to phyrexia definitely closes off design space.
On the other hand, this is also phyrexia coming back, supposedly to be a recurring villain throughout all of magic (or at least for a very long period of time). Having one thing tied to them, and only them, could help give them and identity each time they come back, no matter what twists they are given based on the plane they're infecting.
I could see them deciding to make they phyrexian mana. Personally, I think it would be a mistake to restrict it to phyrexia, but it's not about whether or not it's a mistake: it's about whether WotC would do it.
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I identify as neither male nor female. You may refer to me by using the either gender pronouns or they singular they. =)
They're not actually closing design space with Phyrexian mana; because it's not phyrexian mana. It's a weird version of Hybrid. Assuming there's reminder text on every card, there's no reason to assume we can't have Ravnica mana with the same (or different) cost in later sets. Unlike snow mana, this is just a different way of writing "As an alternative cost."
That said, I'm not convinced these are real because it seems as though Phyrexian Unlife is hideously broken when paired with a number of cards.
Edit: also, Spawning Shell is insane as written. Transfigure +1 Every turn for 2 mana?
Is the text on spellsplitter "spells or abilities that could target it" because if not, you could pay life to have your opponent's equipment equip to it instead of their own creature.
7 mana=really really bad.
Exiling a card hand = bad against decks that go into topdeck mode (aggro stuff).
Restarting the game= what about time contrainsts for tournies?
Wait a sec. This is from Asia, maybe Japan, and they just had a terrible disaster. We got these because of the quake, didn't we? I feel dirty now. Time to go do some charity work and pray a lot.
7 mana=really really bad.
Exiling a card hand = bad against decks that go into topdeck mode (aggro stuff).
Restarting the game= what about time contrainsts for tournies?
This must be fake, its to terrible.
How is he "bad"? Of course, against Aggro he might be bad, but he can at the very least trade when he lands, and prevent a chuck of damage when your opponent attacks him (because everyone hates to be two-for-one'd). Against control, if you land him, you will rip them apart. Thanks to the prevalence of Jace, players will have cards in their hand that they will have no choice but to give you (Jace, Jace, and Jace).
The restart is a problem though. His abilities do compliment it, and would allow a player to win fast. But what player in their right mind would restart a game when they are winning (Karn with +14 counters? Win already, dammit!). Wizards probably realized this, and just wanted to drop a crazy Ultimate on him, like with every other PW they have ever made.
Everyone knows that good luck and good game are such insincere terms that any man who does not connect his right hook with the offender's jaw on the very utterance of such a phrase is no man I would consider as such.
7 mana=really really bad.
Exiling a card hand = bad against decks that go into topdeck mode (aggro stuff).
Restarting the game= what about time contrainsts for tournies?
This must be fake, its to terrible.
I feel like I'm repeating myself waaay too often in this thread...
7 mana is easily ramped into. Green loves this guy.
Exiling a card in hand is really best when YOU are exiling.
Restarting the game and time restraints arn't an issue because you'll be exiling two GREAT things like a Primevil Titan (who starts you with 2 lands and a huge beast, then you play another threat) and just about anything else, including another land. So starting the game over with a Titan and 4 lands on turn one pretty much gives them no other option but to scoop. Unless you are bluffing hardcore, you're not going to set off that ability until it's worth your time and promises the game win.
I feel like I'm repeating myself waaay too often in this thread...
7 mana is easily ramped into. Green loves this guy.
Exiling a card in hand is really best when YOU are exiling.
Restarting the game and time restraints arn't an issue because you'll be exiling two GREAT things like a Primevil Titan (who starts you with 2 lands and a huge beast, then you play another threat) and just about anything else, including another land. So starting the game over with a Titan and 4 lands on turn one pretty much gives them no other option but to scoop. Unless you are bluffing hardcore, you're not going to set off that ability until it's worth your time and promises the game win.
So you spend all your ramp getting karn out turn 4, only to exile the best cards from your own hand at least twice (turn 4+5) and hoping the opponent (who has gotten to goldfish against you) hasn't done ANY damage to karn at all, nor removed him from the game, you get to ultimate him on turn 6 with your free 2 cards from your hand you exiled.
Or you know you could have just played that titan turn 4 and already won, since your opponent is playing 60lands.dec
Not to mention the more likely playout of the above scenario is you spend all that work exiling your best cards from your own hand and karn gets killed or into the roiled or hexmaged.
Fair, but people are railing on Karn for the wrong reasons. YOU have presented good commentary. We see far too many people saying things like "OMG TIME LIMIT" for his ultimate, which really isn't the issue here.
I'm not really sure I go along with the theory of exiling your own cards.
I mean why wouldn't you search their hand for threats and exile them? I suppose if you wanted to win more you could exile your own cards after getting rid of potential threats, but it feels much safer to look at their hand first with a +4 and get rid of anything potentially dangerous, even if it doesn't net you a permanent for next game. A red sun is a good example of that.
Well we'll have to wait to see the true wording. If the cards you exile come into play under your control... wow... if they come into play under their owner's control... then you'd never want to make his ultimate go off. Here, start your game with a free Jace! LOL!
I'm not really sure I go along with the theory of exiling your own cards.
I mean why wouldn't you search their hand for threats and exile them? I suppose if you wanted to win more you could exile your own cards after getting rid of potential threats, but it feels much safer to look at their hand first with a +4 and get rid of anything potentially dangerous, even if it doesn't net you a permanent for next game. A red sun is a good example of that.
You don't choose the card the opponent exiles. They choose from their own hand. You don't even see what's in it.
I think you can see your opponents exiled cards, since they're not exiled face down or anything.. rules don't prohibit you from seeing exiled cards unless the card says so
So you spend all your ramp getting karn out turn 4, only to exile the best cards from your own hand at least twice (turn 4+5) and hoping the opponent (who has gotten to goldfish against you) hasn't done ANY damage to karn at all, nor removed him from the game, you get to ultimate him on turn 6 with your free 2 cards from your hand you exiled.
Or you know you could have just played that titan turn 4 and already won, since your opponent is playing 60lands.dec
Not to mention the more likely playout of the above scenario is you spend all that work exiling your best cards from your own hand and karn gets killed or into the roiled or hexmaged.
My sentimates exactly.
Also: does green have the sweeper /counter protection to save a plainswalker for getting killed? No. The only green plainswalker in standard that is good is garruk. He impacts the board immediate, for only 4 mana. He can easily over-run on turn 4-5. This guy will take forever to ramp into, and then you have to spend two turn just getting him up to ultimate, while you are exiling the best threats from your hand all the while? If you have seven mana, just play primeval titan/ avenger of zendikar and will right there.
Quote me on this: Karn will not see competitive standard play, if this is indeed the real karn.
It seems very unlikely that Karn is going to be playable in standard. I mean Spell Pierce will eat him all day long. Hell any countermagic for that matter. Remember all is dust? Ppl were freaking out. ZOMG IT HITS EVERYTHING FOR 6 MANA WITH ELDRAZI TEMPLE. That worked out rly well huh -_-
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Standard:
Bident Layers B Devotion RG Devotion UW Control Modern:
Jund
UW Control
Combo Pod Legacy: DeathBlade RUG Delver BUG Control
Also: does green have the sweeper /counter protection to save a plainswalker for getting killed? No. The only green plainswalker in standard that is good is garruk. He impacts the board immediate, for only 4 mana. He can easily over-run on turn 4-5. This guy will take forever to ramp into, and then you have to spend two turn just getting him up to ultimate, while you are exiling the best threats from your hand all the while? If you have seven mana, just play primeval titan/ avenger of zendikar and will right there.
Quote me on this: Karn will not see competitive standard play, if this is indeed the real karn.
Well we haven't seen all of NPH spoiler haven't we?.. how about a phyrexian mana counterspell.. that would be something..
I really think the people looking at Karn as a wincon because of his 1st and last abilities are doing it all wrong. His ultimate is flavorful and fun, that's all, and I applaud wizards for their creativity.
All I see when I look at Karn is two exiling vindicates for 7 colorless over two turns, with the possibility of exile a permanent over and over if they don't have the ability to remove him quickly.
I will try and fit him in my control builds as a one or two of support card and enjoy it very much.
Karn, the Honorary Eldrazi
On the one hand, MaRo has talked about making sure to leave design space open, and tying the mana symbol to phyrexia definitely closes off design space.
On the other hand, this is also phyrexia coming back, supposedly to be a recurring villain throughout all of magic (or at least for a very long period of time). Having one thing tied to them, and only them, could help give them and identity each time they come back, no matter what twists they are given based on the plane they're infecting.
I could see them deciding to make they phyrexian mana. Personally, I think it would be a mistake to restrict it to phyrexia, but it's not about whether or not it's a mistake: it's about whether WotC would do it.
Currently working on: BUGSelf-Mill
That said, I'm not convinced these are real because it seems as though Phyrexian Unlife is hideously broken when paired with a number of cards.
Edit: also, Spawning Shell is insane as written. Transfigure +1 Every turn for 2 mana?
I suspect this is just a mistake in translation.
Your cry I hear
I'll catch you
And I'll catch your tears
-
http://signup.leagueoflegends.com/?ref=4e0ab040511b7989424707
Overall I love the way these cards are going they seem like they'll be fun.
No, Karn's ultimate rewinds time to before you got poisoned. Technically not the same thing
7 mana=really really bad.
Exiling a card hand = bad against decks that go into topdeck mode (aggro stuff).
Restarting the game= what about time contrainsts for tournies?
This must be fake, its to terrible.
How is he "bad"? Of course, against Aggro he might be bad, but he can at the very least trade when he lands, and prevent a chuck of damage when your opponent attacks him (because everyone hates to be two-for-one'd). Against control, if you land him, you will rip them apart. Thanks to the prevalence of Jace, players will have cards in their hand that they will have no choice but to give you (Jace, Jace, and Jace).
The restart is a problem though. His abilities do compliment it, and would allow a player to win fast. But what player in their right mind would restart a game when they are winning (Karn with +14 counters? Win already, dammit!). Wizards probably realized this, and just wanted to drop a crazy Ultimate on him, like with every other PW they have ever made.
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
I feel like I'm repeating myself waaay too often in this thread...
7 mana is easily ramped into. Green loves this guy.
Exiling a card in hand is really best when YOU are exiling.
Restarting the game and time restraints arn't an issue because you'll be exiling two GREAT things like a Primevil Titan (who starts you with 2 lands and a huge beast, then you play another threat) and just about anything else, including another land. So starting the game over with a Titan and 4 lands on turn one pretty much gives them no other option but to scoop. Unless you are bluffing hardcore, you're not going to set off that ability until it's worth your time and promises the game win.
So you spend all your ramp getting karn out turn 4, only to exile the best cards from your own hand at least twice (turn 4+5) and hoping the opponent (who has gotten to goldfish against you) hasn't done ANY damage to karn at all, nor removed him from the game, you get to ultimate him on turn 6 with your free 2 cards from your hand you exiled.
Or you know you could have just played that titan turn 4 and already won, since your opponent is playing 60lands.dec
Not to mention the more likely playout of the above scenario is you spend all that work exiling your best cards from your own hand and karn gets killed or into the roiled or hexmaged.
I mean why wouldn't you search their hand for threats and exile them? I suppose if you wanted to win more you could exile your own cards after getting rid of potential threats, but it feels much safer to look at their hand first with a +4 and get rid of anything potentially dangerous, even if it doesn't net you a permanent for next game. A red sun is a good example of that.
You don't choose the card the opponent exiles. They choose from their own hand. You don't even see what's in it.
R Citizen Cane (Feldon of the Third Path)
I think you can see your opponents exiled cards, since they're not exiled face down or anything.. rules don't prohibit you from seeing exiled cards unless the card says so
R Citizen Cane (Feldon of the Third Path)
My sentimates exactly.
Also: does green have the sweeper /counter protection to save a plainswalker for getting killed? No. The only green plainswalker in standard that is good is garruk. He impacts the board immediate, for only 4 mana. He can easily over-run on turn 4-5. This guy will take forever to ramp into, and then you have to spend two turn just getting him up to ultimate, while you are exiling the best threats from your hand all the while? If you have seven mana, just play primeval titan/ avenger of zendikar and will right there.
Quote me on this: Karn will not see competitive standard play, if this is indeed the real karn.
Bident Layers
B Devotion
RG Devotion
UW Control
Modern:
Jund
UW Control
Combo Pod
Legacy:
DeathBlade
RUG Delver
BUG Control
Well we haven't seen all of NPH spoiler haven't we?.. how about a phyrexian mana counterspell.. that would be something..
True, my friend. A phyrexian mana counterspell would be slightly overpowered, I think.
All I see when I look at Karn is two exiling vindicates for 7 colorless over two turns, with the possibility of exile a permanent over and over if they don't have the ability to remove him quickly.
I will try and fit him in my control builds as a one or two of support card and enjoy it very much.
Not if it had two Phybrid mana symbols in its cost. Paying 2-4 life instead of some mana.
That would be broken... Pay 4 life to hit Jace when tapped out in a Mono black deck? Okay!