The titans are potentially being reprinted, plus we have the 4 mana phyrexian canceller.
Duress is likely to be reprinted
Vampire hexmage can be replace by hex parasite
and doom blade we have go for the throat and maybe more.
I said it's no extirpate...which, you know, can't be countered. Extirpate barely saw any play in standard, and it doesn't get a ton of play in legacy either, though it does fit some sideboards well. This card is a great sideboard card in legacy because any deck can run it, and it's free meaning you can Cunning Wish for it and cast it without additional mana. When you are squeezing 5 to 6 or more cards into 3 slots in your main board, then this sort of thing becomes worth having around.
No, it doesn't suck for not being uncounterable, it sucks because you have to set it up, so you get two for one'd by a counter if you're maindecking it. On it's own this card does nothing. You have to build around it to make it work if it's not a sideboard card or you are reacting to a very GY based threat heavy meta. It doesn't change the game state unless they have the targeted card in their hand or the targeted card works from the graveyard.
Iok or Durress + Surgical Extraction is not good enough to build around. That's 8-10 Mainboard slots. You know what else is 8-10 Mainboard slots? Hawks, Mystics, and a sword or two. Guess which one will win you the game?
If anyone thinks this will stop caw-blade they're crazy, no matter what you take, they have something else, you would have to hit all four in your library to get of all their wincons. It might see limited success in hating valakut.
Right but look at it this way your out 2 life if they counter it they are out their 2nd turn or 3rd turn of mana.
I mean really its not a huge deal also if its really backbreaking to your opponent you can slip it under counters easily since it cost 2 life.
I am perfectly aware that Extirpate can't be countered dude.
But this costs 2 life or B so that's pretty huge.
Also Duress is not really building around this card Duress is powerful in its own right.
Playing this with a deck that has Duress is not the same as playing a combo deck where one piece of the combo does nothing without the other.
Throughout the course of the game cards find their way into the graveyard you don't have to duress the opponent to make the card work.
I never like having cards in my deck that only effect potential game states as opposed to ones that exist now.
Especially when those cards don't eliminate virtually every potential game state that lets my opponent kill me.
If your opponent was not going to draw one of those 3 cards you pulled out of your library, you lose 2 life / B and a card.... for nothing. It really goes beyond that- its card disadvantage. Its a card that affects potential game state and does nothing on its own.
Like many people have said, and I'm sure you agree- extirpate is a narrow effect. No deck should ever have it maindecked unless they have some *serious* shenanigans, its just a hoser for specific strategies. And its only questionable in the current meta, but it will likely find a place to keep something in the future including NPH under control. Theres no dredge in standard =/
@ Philonus: I like the card, I just think you are succumbing to hype a little bit. I was going a little nutty this morning when I saw this card, because free spells are the bee's knees, but I thought about it at work a lot today and realized that the Phybrid mana was making an otherwise bad card just kind of good. So now I am here preaching my gospel.
Sure, I'll admit to being on the hype wagon, but right now caw blade is top deck, and having Swamp, IOK, and extraction in an opening hand isn't a stretch. Turn one good by S.hawk or Forge master.... Seems good. But against other decks, meh, not as good. Like you, I've actually calmed down a bit after the initial "OMFG free spell... So good!" phase, but still. Card is good.
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The EDH stax primer When you absolutely, positively got to kill every permanent in the room, accept no substitutes.
Pretty sure that you're not Extracting a random card. You're extracting something you want away from your opponent's hand of graveyard, and if it's countered, you're not going to be happy. If you are, you're playing the card wrong.
Oh, no, don't get me wrong. It sucks, but ANYthing getting countered does. However, you're out two life, they're out a counter and a reasonable portion of mana. You could probably do it again. It is very wasteful, yes.
I did say I was overreacting, didn't I?
Also, if you're crazy enough to toss this against a random card and they still counter it, it's really not that hard to draw some information from that, I'd say.
Those situations are, the opponent is playing valakut, or the opponent is playing vengevine or the opponent is playing dredge.
And you don't think the titans are going to be reprinted?
Uh, no. Right now mono-black is overshadowed by blue-based control decks, and when Jace rotates so will most of the things that make black-based control good. Not to mention that a) dredge doesn't exist in standard, b) Vengevine decks are easy matchups for most of the current meta, and c) if they've gotten through enough of the game to have a Titan or Valakut in the yard, there's not a great chance you're winning barring discard. Keep in mind we are talking about Standard right now. It's plenty good in Legacy, but not much better than Extirpate, which is pretty fringe.
And no, I do not think the Titans will be reprinted. DOTP promos do not mean they're going to be reprinted.
It's better than extirpate given that any deck can play it. In fact, I think it's too good. I am not a fan of the "phyrexian mana" mechanic. It's a little kid mechanic. It gives decks access to parts of the color pie that they would otherwise not be able to access without bending over backwards for.
The titans are potentially being reprinted, plus we have the 4 mana phyrexian canceller.
Duress is likely to be reprinted
Vampire hexmage can be replace by hex parasite
and doom blade we have go for the throat and maybe more.
Not "potentially". It would make no sense to give out promos of titans to attract new players than have them not be on the next core. They're in.
Not "potentially". It would make no sense to give out promos of titans to attract new players than have them not be on the next core. They're in.
Unfortunately Wizards often do things that don't make sense, for example let new players buy a set called "Magic 2011" in June 2011 and let them find out mere 3 months later that the cards are no longer standard legal, still in 2011!
I suppose you could lay a Contagion clasp turn 2, kill a Hawk, then Surgical Extraction by paying 2 life. You don't necessarily have to make him discard it.
Hmm... are they trying to push suicide black into standard again? Cool marketing, they see a format clogged with control, and they give players a tool against that.
I'm so glad this card will be rare and not mythic. Its the Ratchet Bomb of this set and will see a lot lot lot of play in many formats.
Hmm... are they trying to push suicide black into standard again? Cool marketing, they see a format clogged with control, and they give players a tool against that.
I'm so glad this card will be rare and not mythic. Its the Ratchet Bomb of this set and will see a lot lot lot of play in many formats.
#1 - What's the dumbest idea you ever had?
#2 - 15/15 for 15?
#1 - Make it dumber
#2 - Give it protection from removal and counter?
#1 - DUMBER!
#2 - Add Timewalk?
#1 - DAMN IT MAN, I SAID DUMB!! DUMB !!!
#2 - It destroys everything when it attacks.... And wait, I have a friend who plays mill decks... I want to beat him too.
#1 - Excellent! Recess is over, go back and learn sex-ed with the other 6th graders.
If they made Extirpate then it's possible to see these cards as well:
1(P/G)(P/G)(P/G)
Creature
Trample
4/4
(P/R)(P/R)(P/R)
Instant
Deal 3 damage to target creature or player
(P/U)(P/U)(P/U)(P/U)
Instant
Counter Target spell
I can't think anything for white but this is possible not too bad a little balanced. Anyway just speculating.
Those don't seem terribly balanced at all, except maybe the red one.
The reason this card works with an all-phybrid cost is that R&D apparently feels that a utility function like this is something that is good for all colors to have available to them in order to defend against certain varieties of decks (combo and others that rely heavily on one or two particular cards to do well). The same goes for Hex Parasite, which is a solution to Planeswalkers available to any color willing to pay a little life for it. There's a difference between making metagame utility functions available to all colors and just slapping these sorts of costs on anything and everything.
More or less, I wouldn't expect to see phybrid mana on spells or effects that don't do something that could conceivably be done by an artifact as well. Extirpate is something similar enough to staple artifact effects like graveyard removal and "capping" that it's well within bounds for an all-phybrid cost, if you ask me.
this is concidered a black card for search effects right? like "search your library for a black card"
i only ask since its not actualy a swamp in the CC
and if its black does it count for stuff like.. Umbra Stalker
this is concidered a black card for search effects right? like "search your library for a black card"
i only ask since its not actualy a swamp in the CC
and if its black does it count for stuff like.. Umbra Stalker
Yes and yes. It's a black mana symbol, and therefore the card is a black card, and the symbol is counted by Umbra Stalker.
This and hex parasite seem really really good...id like a playset of both,
it's basically extirpate trading the splitsecond for NO mana cost.. it looks pretty smexy to me.. my discard deck would love these
hope they dont stay as much price as they are now though, i dont even know why extirpate costs that much...i should be glad having one i guess
But i think that phyrexian mana is kinda bonkers, it screws the mana pie..(its already screwed but anyway) gives access to colours playing other colours card for some measly 2-4 life loss....
cards are just getting stronger and stronger ...:O . hope that the power reset is close
come on... all the black players know that the only life point that matters is your last...
i like the flavor of it though... but i feel really strange about the mechanic :/
A 40 dollar mythic rare would constitute a must have 4 of that goes in many decks.
Stats About Mythics
-Mythics are on average 40% rarer than pre-mythic rares
(old blocks about 200 rares, Mythic blocks 35+ mythics)
-They are printing more new cards a year not less
(about 665 now vs. 630 in most pre-mythic block)
-To drop the value of a rare by $1 a mythic must go up $2
-In a 3 year time span deck prices doubled. I am petitioning for the removal of mythic rarity. Sig this to join the cause.
Like exactly, that card is borderline playable in legacy that's how powerful that is. If you get that turn one, you are dealing at least 8 to them. Like does everyone remember goblin guide? Yea he usually hits for 4 cause you usually don't kill him. This guy you have to kill, and you need doomblade condemn, or GFTT. like that's pretty nasty
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():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Standard: Esper Spirits-WUB
Modern: Bant Geist-WUG
Legacy: Reanimator-UB-WRG
EDH:
Ramirez DePietro: Pirate Themed-UB
Riku of Two Reflections: "Oops I Win"-URG
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The titans are potentially being reprinted, plus we have the 4 mana phyrexian canceller.
Duress is likely to be reprinted
Vampire hexmage can be replace by hex parasite
and doom blade we have go for the throat and maybe more.
T2
UWVenser Sun TitanUW
EDH
RUGRiku of Two ReflectionsRUG
Right but look at it this way your out 2 life if they counter it they are out their 2nd turn or 3rd turn of mana.
I mean really its not a huge deal also if its really backbreaking to your opponent you can slip it under counters easily since it cost 2 life.
I am perfectly aware that Extirpate can't be countered dude.
But this costs 2 life or B so that's pretty huge.
Also Duress is not really building around this card Duress is powerful in its own right.
Playing this with a deck that has Duress is not the same as playing a combo deck where one piece of the combo does nothing without the other.
Throughout the course of the game cards find their way into the graveyard you don't have to duress the opponent to make the card work.
Feel free to bid on my cards here!
Especially when those cards don't eliminate virtually every potential game state that lets my opponent kill me.
If your opponent was not going to draw one of those 3 cards you pulled out of your library, you lose 2 life / B and a card.... for nothing. It really goes beyond that- its card disadvantage. Its a card that affects potential game state and does nothing on its own.
Like many people have said, and I'm sure you agree- extirpate is a narrow effect. No deck should ever have it maindecked unless they have some *serious* shenanigans, its just a hoser for specific strategies. And its only questionable in the current meta, but it will likely find a place to keep something in the future including NPH under control. Theres no dredge in standard =/
Sure, I'll admit to being on the hype wagon, but right now caw blade is top deck, and having Swamp, IOK, and extraction in an opening hand isn't a stretch. Turn one good by S.hawk or Forge master.... Seems good. But against other decks, meh, not as good. Like you, I've actually calmed down a bit after the initial "OMFG free spell... So good!" phase, but still. Card is good.
The EDH stax primer
When you absolutely, positively got to kill every permanent in the room, accept no substitutes.
Oh, no, don't get me wrong. It sucks, but ANYthing getting countered does. However, you're out two life, they're out a counter and a reasonable portion of mana. You could probably do it again. It is very wasteful, yes.
I did say I was overreacting, didn't I?
Also, if you're crazy enough to toss this against a random card and they still counter it, it's really not that hard to draw some information from that, I'd say.
Uh, no. Right now mono-black is overshadowed by blue-based control decks, and when Jace rotates so will most of the things that make black-based control good. Not to mention that a) dredge doesn't exist in standard, b) Vengevine decks are easy matchups for most of the current meta, and c) if they've gotten through enough of the game to have a Titan or Valakut in the yard, there's not a great chance you're winning barring discard. Keep in mind we are talking about Standard right now. It's plenty good in Legacy, but not much better than Extirpate, which is pretty fringe.
And no, I do not think the Titans will be reprinted. DOTP promos do not mean they're going to be reprinted.
Lands WUBG
EDH:
Doran WBG
What if you peeked into your own hand and there were only 6 cards?
but also a extirpate in any color for no mana just two life legacy is so happy with this...
And the art on this card is beyond retarded.
Not "potentially". It would make no sense to give out promos of titans to attract new players than have them not be on the next core. They're in.
Unfortunately Wizards often do things that don't make sense, for example let new players buy a set called "Magic 2011" in June 2011 and let them find out mere 3 months later that the cards are no longer standard legal, still in 2011!
I'm so glad this card will be rare and not mythic. Its the Ratchet Bomb of this set and will see a lot lot lot of play in many formats.
weren't the cards for NPH made like a year ago?
1PG PG PG
Creature
Trample
4/4
PR PR PR
Instant
Deal 3 damage to target creature or player
PU PU PU PU
Instant
Counter Target spell
I can't think anything for white but this is possible not too bad a little balanced. Anyway just speculating.
Those don't seem terribly balanced at all, except maybe the red one.
The reason this card works with an all-phybrid cost is that R&D apparently feels that a utility function like this is something that is good for all colors to have available to them in order to defend against certain varieties of decks (combo and others that rely heavily on one or two particular cards to do well). The same goes for Hex Parasite, which is a solution to Planeswalkers available to any color willing to pay a little life for it. There's a difference between making metagame utility functions available to all colors and just slapping these sorts of costs on anything and everything.
More or less, I wouldn't expect to see phybrid mana on spells or effects that don't do something that could conceivably be done by an artifact as well. Extirpate is something similar enough to staple artifact effects like graveyard removal and "capping" that it's well within bounds for an all-phybrid cost, if you ask me.
R Citizen Cane (Feldon of the Third Path)
this is concidered a black card for search effects right? like "search your library for a black card"
i only ask since its not actualy a swamp in the CC
and if its black does it count for stuff like..
Umbra Stalker
sig by Sioux
Yes and yes. It's a black mana symbol, and therefore the card is a black card, and the symbol is counted by Umbra Stalker.
R Citizen Cane (Feldon of the Third Path)
it's basically extirpate trading the splitsecond for NO mana cost.. it looks pretty smexy to me.. my discard deck would love these
hope they dont stay as much price as they are now though, i dont even know why extirpate costs that much...i should be glad having one i guess
But i think that phyrexian mana is kinda bonkers, it screws the mana pie..(its already screwed but anyway) gives access to colours playing other colours card for some measly 2-4 life loss....
cards are just getting stronger and stronger ...:O . hope that the power reset is close
come on... all the black players know that the only life point that matters is your last...
i like the flavor of it though... but i feel really strange about the mechanic :/
Δε φοβάμαι τίποτα...
Είμαι Άνεργος.
Grimstringer on Cockatrice, add me if you wanna
LOL! Why would you ever play that green creature for 4? lol turn 1 4/4 trampler deal with it. Sounds like an awful card.
Modern: Bant Geist-WUG
Legacy: Reanimator-UB-WRG
EDH:
Ramirez DePietro: Pirate Themed-UB
Riku of Two Reflections: "Oops I Win"-URG
Late game when you top deck it.
Stats About Mythics
-Mythics are on average 40% rarer than pre-mythic rares
(old blocks about 200 rares, Mythic blocks 35+ mythics)
-They are printing more new cards a year not less
(about 665 now vs. 630 in most pre-mythic block)
-To drop the value of a rare by $1 a mythic must go up $2
-In a 3 year time span deck prices doubled.
I am petitioning for the removal of mythic rarity. Sig this to join the cause.
Will be no late game with cards like that...
Like exactly, that card is borderline playable in legacy that's how powerful that is. If you get that turn one, you are dealing at least 8 to them. Like does everyone remember goblin guide? Yea he usually hits for 4 cause you usually don't kill him. This guy you have to kill, and you need doomblade condemn, or GFTT. like that's pretty nasty
Modern: Bant Geist-WUG
Legacy: Reanimator-UB-WRG
EDH:
Ramirez DePietro: Pirate Themed-UB
Riku of Two Reflections: "Oops I Win"-URG