I'm sorry. The idea that Wizards is "threatened" by SCG is just stupid. The SCG open series has and will be nothing but good for wizards. It does what the grand prix circuit does without Wizards having to do anything. You think Wizards is "afraid" the SCG events will come to overshadow WOTC sponsored events? There's nothing Wizards would like more than for a third party to be offering millions of dollars a year in order to play their game without costing them a dime.
Ditching regional pre-releases is a huge loss for anyone who lives near a major city. The Philly PRs regularly bring in about 200 people and are run by Gray Matter Conventions, not a local store.
There are only two small hobby shops in the city of Philadelphia that I'm aware of that ever run release events, and each seats maybe 20-30 people. They can't handle the demand. Outside the city there are more stores, but again they just can't seat many people.
I doubt any small store wants to take on the burden of hosting a huge prerelease at a rented location. That's not their business. It only works now because Gray Matter hosts big tournaments all throughout the Northeast. They know how to host an event of that size -- the local comic shop does not.
I imagine this is similar for most big cities that really need a large venue like a convention center to handle the demand.
They'll reverse this in a few months once they see the revenue plummet. Having been to many PRs, the people that turn out for them are not going to travel to a Grand Prix instead. They're just going to play at home instead, if at all.
WotC always falls into this trap of thinking that Magic players will just consume whatever events are offered to them. As if we don't have any personal preference for format, tournament size, casual vs. serious, etc.
I feel your pain man. I'm from Toronto and for some god forsaken reason Wizards likes to ☺☺☺☺ us over with GPs and Pro Tours. I mean giving us Worlds that one time and GP: Toronto last year does not make up for giving us big events every 5 years or so.
I'm also in Toronto, actually. Where do you play?
TBH, if they guaranteed a Toronto GP every year and put it somewhere easily accessible (and not way the heck out at Pearson Airport), I'd shut right the heck up. However, if they do 30 US GPs, 5 European GPs, 3 Japanese GPs, and then the other 2 are "wildcard" GPs which could be anywhere else (Canada, South America, the non-continental USA), screw that.
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Old terminology reference:
Play (noun): Battlefield
Play (verb): Cast/Play
RFG: Exile
CIP: Enters the Battlefield
Eww that's the worst, last prerelease I was crammed into a tiny store with not enough seating with a bunch of fat people that haven't showered. Deck construction and playing standing up at a counter top isn't the best experience, especially for a midnight prerelease. I promptly dropped after second round 2-0 just because the whole experience was so miserable.
Because of the ambitious nature of this schedule, we plan on announcing upcoming Grand Prix and Pro Tours closer to when they occur rather than announcing the entire season at once. Look for the first wave of 2012 Grand Prix to be announced later this year.
Thaaaat's going to be annoying.
I'm looking forward to missing a GP in my backyard because I didn't hear about it in time.
The store-run events and Grand Prix will more than fill the absence of Regional Prereleases
(Ignoring the part about GPs filling prerelease absences... what?) How do store run events fill the absence of Regional Pre's? We already HAVE store run events. WotC can't add more table space to my LGS.
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I'll be sad if people don't start calling The Chain Veil "Fleetwood Mac."
Ditching regional pre-releases is a huge loss for anyone who lives near a major city. The Philly PRs regularly bring in about 200 people and are run by Gray Matter Conventions, not a local store.
There are only two small hobby shops in the city of Philadelphia that I'm aware of that ever run release events, and each seats maybe 20-30 people. They can't handle the demand. Outside the city there are more stores, but again they just can't seat many people.
I doubt any small store wants to take on the burden of hosting a huge prerelease at a rented location. That's not their business. It only works now because Gray Matter hosts big tournaments all throughout the Northeast. They know how to host an event of that size -- the local comic shop does not.
I imagine this is similar for most big cities that really need a large venue like a convention center to handle the demand.
They'll reverse this in a few months once they see the revenue plummet.
Yep, this is pretty much the exact same situation in NYC (where GMC also operates). I don't really care about the other changes and/or think they are fine but this one here is straight up stupid.
TBH, if they guaranteed a Toronto GP every year and put it somewhere easily accessible (and not way the heck out at Pearson Airport), I'd shut right the heck up. However, if they do 30 US GPs, 5 European GPs, 3 Japanese GPs, and then the other 2 are "wildcard" GPs which could be anywhere else (Canada, South America, the non-continental USA), screw that.
401 and U of T mostly. Metro Convention Centre would be so much better, it's literally a stroll away from Union. Must be the rent.
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MTGS: You guys do not speak for the wider Magic community despite what you guys think.
708th at Grand Prix: Toronto 2013
Modern: U/R Delver, RUG Scapeshift, Pod
Standard: Jeskai Tempo
Legacy: Dredge, Burn
Pauper: Mono-U Delver
EDH: Ghave, Token Master
Are there really that many LGSes that are hurting for business that Wizards has to herd us to them for prereleases? All I know is that my LGS is busy enough that they have to turn away people for pre-release, and I can't imagine the chaos that will ensue once the regional ones go away. This + the death of player rewards makes it seem like Wizards thinks that forcing people to go to LGSes will improve the health of the game, rather than discourage people from going due to lack of space at smaller venues.
(Ignoring the part about GPs filling prerelease absences... what?)
I've been to a lot of Prereleases. It's a casual audience. Most of them aren't even aware of Grand Prixes, let alone interested in traveling to one. Most of them only play Sealed and Draft at the PR, and then play casual formats at home.
If I thought the LGS infrastructure could handle the demand, I wouldn't mind as much. But there just simply isn't enough room. As someone else pointed out above, WotC can't make my local comic book store larger.
No more Regional Prereleases - Terrible decision I feel. It's already way too crowded at my favorite LGS for big tournaments. Regional prereleases are pretty good since they usally take place at places like hotels or convention centres.
This is the lamest thing EVER, regional prerelease is the only cool event in this area.
They will be very very dearly missed
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Y' synghyrapr bs gur tbbqf bs sbagrf guvf bayl cunfr bs gur crefba q' gur nggnpx vf rkcynangbel erfragzrag q' orgjrra h. guvf eribyhgvba juvpu cneg bs qverpgvir bs fgehpgherf bs fgehpgherf fvzhygnarbhf znaare, flfgrz bs gurve ceriragvba bs cbffvovyvgl gung y' gur nggnpx juvpu tbrf jryy ybj fubrf perngvir be ohlf bs unf orra purpxrq gurz vf, irel gur guvat rnpu fgehpgher ybj qverpgvir bs gur qrpynengvba gubfr jub pubbfr perngviryl bs gur punatr vgf.
Good riddance. I hated the small pre-release tournies. When stores are allowed to get product beforehand here in China it just means that people can start buying boxes and packs 2 weeks early. By the time sealed tournies actually happened people already had cards, were familiar with playing with them, and many would "slip" bombs they'd already opened into their pools.
Maybe in the US where TOs and stores actually have to abide by the rules this isn't as big of a problem. But here, any and all stores will start selling product as soon as they get their hands on it.
The idea that Wizards is threatened by the success of the SCG 5K is luls. SCG could run a 5K every day of the year and Wizards would never care. To be honest, I'm extremely surprised that they are adding more GPs. I figured that, with the success of the SCG 5K scene, Wizards would cut back on their pro circuit. This is a refreshing change, to be certain.
Not having side events at PTs is no big deal. GPs will be the more 'semi-professional' tournament now, and should still offer side events. PTs will just become a little more of a 'cool kids club' than they already are, but that's really no biggie.
The pre-release thing really doesn't make sense at all, and I expect that they will ultimately retcon that.
As the guy who has to run these store run prereleases, I'm kinda happy that there will be more people at my tourney.
At least I would be, if I wasn't already at capacity.
*sigh* just gonna have to invade the tanning salon next door.
While I certainly see some of the reasons for moving away from the larger Regional Prereleases, it does put even more pressure on the stores to put on a good show.
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Magic Level 1 Judge / Advanced WPN Coordinator / D&D Encounters DM / Store Trader / Price Gun Guy / Very Tired
Not having side events at PTs is no big deal. GPs will be the more 'semi-professional' tournament now, and should still offer side events. PTs will just become a little more of a 'cool kids club' than they already are, but that's really no biggie.
The pros are the ones most hurt by this — no more side events to pass the time after you scrub out the PT main event.
Oh man, that's terrible news about regional pre-releases. The problem with LGS pre-releases is space, and mine is a tiny store, with an owner who values warhammer over Magic, so if a warhammer game is going on, the table can't be used. 20 people in that store is jammed full either way though. (New store, not a lot of space)
Love the idea of more GP's though, hopefully Houston will get a yearly one, as Dallas seems to get more. What would be cooler is one in Austin, as that's closer than Dallas. Stupid Dallas.
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"I've always been a fan of reality by popular vote" - Stephen Colbert (in response to Don McLeroy)
Ok, so the Grand Prix increase is 1 out of the 3 ideas that's good. The two others are failures. Great, more colossal mistakes by Wizards to alienate certain parts of their fanbase even more. Good to see.
My area (Dallas/FT Worth) lost its regional prerelease as of Zendikar. It wasn't terrible, and really ended up being a great boon to the large and popular local stores (who now both serve 80+ players in their main prerelease flight.
More GPs is more better!
The change to Pro-tour events will hinge entirely on what the new coverage is. If we can get new, interesting and fun commentators so that live coverage is fun to watch, it will be great. As much as I love the nostalgia, the current commentators are awful. Magic needs to take a page out of Starcraft's book, pro-level Starcraft is fun only because of flavorful commentating. Magic can do the same.
I can see why they are making the Pro Tours more exclusive. It increases the prestige of being a Pro Magic Player and entices non-pros to grind.
They tried canceling the regional prereleases before. This sucks. If I wanted to go to a big FNM I would. The point of the regional ones are so that I can meet new people playing Magic in multiple flights in a large air conditioned room.
Canceling the big pre-releases so I can drive out of state if I want to continue judging? Way to go wizards, as if you couldn't screw this one up anymore....
More GPs really doesn't matter to me, as I am not concerned with that level of magic until I am out of college with a more expendable income, since this mythic bull cra... going back on topic...
They will go back on their offer, if our voices of those who want regional pre-releases are heard...
Does the note about side events also apply to Worlds? I'm not sure if it counts as a PT or not. I was going to be stateside this November and was looking forward to dropping in at Worlds to play Magic with new, better players.
I stopped going to regional prereleases once I found my LGS. Honestly, I think some stores will rent bigger spaces to host things like Prereleases and GP Trials so that they can host more people and thus make more profit.
As for the Pro Tour and GP, I welcome the idea of more GPs, and think that it is completely reasonable for WotC to focus them in areas that have higher amounts of Magic Players, if that's the US, yay us. I still don't think I'll attend one, unless there's another Legacy one each year, but either way, more GPs means a few things. First, it's better for us overall, as it allows people greater chances to go up to the big leagues. Second, it indicated to me that WotC is doing well enough to be able to host this great increase in events. THat means that Magic is doing well, which I always like to hear.
Now I'm going to bed. I apologize if that post was incoherent, I cannot actually focus my eyes on what I'm typing, so I have no idea about spelling and such. Sorry
Honestly, I think some stores will rent bigger spaces to host things like Prereleases and GP Trials so that they can host more people and thus make more profit.
Yeah what's to stop organizers from continuing to run the regional prereleases just like they did with Champs/States/Provincials or what ever it is called?
The only thing that I can see that will be different is that they won't be able to get the prize support, just the prerelease product based on their prerelease attendance numbers. This means either money or current product will have to be used for prizes.
I am not sure how the large regional prereleases work, but I think WotC provided some prize support. I know when I had a store, for the Xth edition release they gave us 1 or 2 boxes for free for prizes. This just takes their hand out of the whole thing and leaves the ball in the court of the large organizers.
The increased GPs and private PTs is not even an issue. No reason to complain when we are getting more events, regardless that most will probably be in North America. If they up the coverage on the PTs to Worlds level or better it will only make the experience better. Who cares about the lack of side events at a PT if there will be double the chances for you to actually play the main event at a GP AND side events as well.
I'm glad to see that the regional pre-releases are going to be gone. Now in all fairness that may just be due to the fact that the ones that are run here in Toronto are run by Marv and I find him to be a detestable person. He has had a stranglehold on virtually all large events in the area and as a result he overcharges whenever possible for events and singles( he had a rough time selling his singles at the GP considering every other vendor had better prices). Although to be fair I do enjoy it when events are run out of the primrose hotel as that is a great location. Unfortunately most of the time the tourneys are not located there.
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There are only two small hobby shops in the city of Philadelphia that I'm aware of that ever run release events, and each seats maybe 20-30 people. They can't handle the demand. Outside the city there are more stores, but again they just can't seat many people.
I doubt any small store wants to take on the burden of hosting a huge prerelease at a rented location. That's not their business. It only works now because Gray Matter hosts big tournaments all throughout the Northeast. They know how to host an event of that size -- the local comic shop does not.
I imagine this is similar for most big cities that really need a large venue like a convention center to handle the demand.
They'll reverse this in a few months once they see the revenue plummet. Having been to many PRs, the people that turn out for them are not going to travel to a Grand Prix instead. They're just going to play at home instead, if at all.
WotC always falls into this trap of thinking that Magic players will just consume whatever events are offered to them. As if we don't have any personal preference for format, tournament size, casual vs. serious, etc.
I'm also in Toronto, actually. Where do you play?
TBH, if they guaranteed a Toronto GP every year and put it somewhere easily accessible (and not way the heck out at Pearson Airport), I'd shut right the heck up. However, if they do 30 US GPs, 5 European GPs, 3 Japanese GPs, and then the other 2 are "wildcard" GPs which could be anywhere else (Canada, South America, the non-continental USA), screw that.
Play (verb): Cast/Play
RFG: Exile
CIP: Enters the Battlefield
Fetchland: Arid Mesa
Shockland: Watery Grave
M10 Dual: Glacial Fortress
Thaaaat's going to be annoying.
I'm looking forward to missing a GP in my backyard because I didn't hear about it in time.
(Ignoring the part about GPs filling prerelease absences... what?) How do store run events fill the absence of Regional Pre's? We already HAVE store run events. WotC can't add more table space to my LGS.
Yep, this is pretty much the exact same situation in NYC (where GMC also operates). I don't really care about the other changes and/or think they are fine but this one here is straight up stupid.
401 and U of T mostly. Metro Convention Centre would be so much better, it's literally a stroll away from Union. Must be the rent.
708th at Grand Prix: Toronto 2013
Modern: U/R Delver, RUG Scapeshift, Pod
Standard: Jeskai Tempo
Legacy: Dredge, Burn
Pauper: Mono-U Delver
EDH: Ghave, Token Master
I've been to a lot of Prereleases. It's a casual audience. Most of them aren't even aware of Grand Prixes, let alone interested in traveling to one. Most of them only play Sealed and Draft at the PR, and then play casual formats at home.
If I thought the LGS infrastructure could handle the demand, I wouldn't mind as much. But there just simply isn't enough room. As someone else pointed out above, WotC can't make my local comic book store larger.
This is the lamest thing EVER, regional prerelease is the only cool event in this area.
They will be very very dearly missed
Maybe in the US where TOs and stores actually have to abide by the rules this isn't as big of a problem. But here, any and all stores will start selling product as soon as they get their hands on it.
Not having side events at PTs is no big deal. GPs will be the more 'semi-professional' tournament now, and should still offer side events. PTs will just become a little more of a 'cool kids club' than they already are, but that's really no biggie.
The pre-release thing really doesn't make sense at all, and I expect that they will ultimately retcon that.
As the guy who has to run these store run prereleases, I'm kinda happy that there will be more people at my tourney.
At least I would be, if I wasn't already at capacity.
*sigh* just gonna have to invade the tanning salon next door.
While I certainly see some of the reasons for moving away from the larger Regional Prereleases, it does put even more pressure on the stores to put on a good show.
The pros are the ones most hurt by this — no more side events to pass the time after you scrub out the PT main event.
Practice for Khans of Tarkir Limited:
Draft: (#1) (#2) (#3) (#4) (#5)
Love the idea of more GP's though, hopefully Houston will get a yearly one, as Dallas seems to get more. What would be cooler is one in Austin, as that's closer than Dallas. Stupid Dallas.
"I've always been a fan of reality by popular vote" - Stephen Colbert (in response to Don McLeroy)
GPolukranos, Kill ALL the Things!G
Akuma will wreck you.
I have no opinion of the other two.
More GPs is more better!
The change to Pro-tour events will hinge entirely on what the new coverage is. If we can get new, interesting and fun commentators so that live coverage is fun to watch, it will be great. As much as I love the nostalgia, the current commentators are awful. Magic needs to take a page out of Starcraft's book, pro-level Starcraft is fun only because of flavorful commentating. Magic can do the same.
High Number Death Game
20 Questions (with Magic Cards)
I can see why they are making the Pro Tours more exclusive. It increases the prestige of being a Pro Magic Player and entices non-pros to grind.
They tried canceling the regional prereleases before. This sucks. If I wanted to go to a big FNM I would. The point of the regional ones are so that I can meet new people playing Magic in multiple flights in a large air conditioned room.
Canceling the big pre-releases so I can drive out of state if I want to continue judging? Way to go wizards, as if you couldn't screw this one up anymore....
More GPs really doesn't matter to me, as I am not concerned with that level of magic until I am out of college with a more expendable income, since this
mythic bull cra...going back on topic...They will go back on their offer, if our voices of those who want regional pre-releases are heard...
The GJ way path to no lynching:
As for the Pro Tour and GP, I welcome the idea of more GPs, and think that it is completely reasonable for WotC to focus them in areas that have higher amounts of Magic Players, if that's the US, yay us. I still don't think I'll attend one, unless there's another Legacy one each year, but either way, more GPs means a few things. First, it's better for us overall, as it allows people greater chances to go up to the big leagues. Second, it indicated to me that WotC is doing well enough to be able to host this great increase in events. THat means that Magic is doing well, which I always like to hear.
Now I'm going to bed. I apologize if that post was incoherent, I cannot actually focus my eyes on what I'm typing, so I have no idea about spelling and such. Sorry
Yeah what's to stop organizers from continuing to run the regional prereleases just like they did with Champs/States/Provincials or what ever it is called?
The only thing that I can see that will be different is that they won't be able to get the prize support, just the prerelease product based on their prerelease attendance numbers. This means either money or current product will have to be used for prizes.
I am not sure how the large regional prereleases work, but I think WotC provided some prize support. I know when I had a store, for the Xth edition release they gave us 1 or 2 boxes for free for prizes. This just takes their hand out of the whole thing and leaves the ball in the court of the large organizers.
The increased GPs and private PTs is not even an issue. No reason to complain when we are getting more events, regardless that most will probably be in North America. If they up the coverage on the PTs to Worlds level or better it will only make the experience better. Who cares about the lack of side events at a PT if there will be double the chances for you to actually play the main event at a GP AND side events as well.
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