Well theirs allready so much "gatherer" and "life total" tools, why the hell should WotC make one themself ?
Maybe they will just "steal" one.
Because they can make a better, official one?
They can't steal a gatherer app. All gatherer apps exist at the mercy of WoTC. It is their website, their intellectual property, etc.
Life total apps, not so much, but they could make a 'dci approved' one or something. Currently apps are not allowed to be used in events.
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What makes you think Wizards are capable of making a better one? The Daily MTG web page is a bloated mess, and the complaints about MTGO are legendary.
$$$.
The amount of money sunk into existing apps isn't very much.
If they had an app made, they should hire out someone rather than do it in-house...because everything in-house is garbage.
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Needless to say the input capabilities of a multitouch display more than make up for the lack of screen real estate. I think people are discounting the possibility because they're thinking 'modo on a 3.5 inch screen', which is NOT the way mobile apps (or at least good ones) are developed.
Needless to say the input capabilities of a multitouch display more than make up for the lack of screen real estate. I think people are discounting the possibility because they're thinking 'modo on a 3.5 inch screen', which is NOT the way mobile apps (or at least good ones) are developed.
The question isn't whether it would work, but whether it would be worth it in my opinion.
Like I said earlier, MODO is awkward enough sometimes, but the mouse+keyboard+large screen help make up for the awkwardness of putting things like turn order and responses into a digital platform. Trying to work your way through the phases of a turn would just be silly on a phone, even one with a physical keyboard.
Watching that, I wonder if he's considered the problem of card tapping?
I noticed that when he'd select a card to play it would automatically tap the correct number of land - but if I'm playing a two coloured deck and I tap for 2 and a G I might be deliberately NOT using my plains as one of those 2 so I can use my white instant during your turn.
Needless to say the input capabilities of a multitouch display more than make up for the lack of screen real estate. I think people are discounting the possibility because they're thinking 'modo on a 3.5 inch screen', which is NOT the way mobile apps (or at least good ones) are developed.
Being a developer myself this is pretty much truth That said though, a lot of apps I've seen worked on (and things I'm working on myself) tend not to be based on larger, esetablished games with intricate interactions that traditionally required a lot of space. Icons I'm working on now are 32x32 and even that's a pretty tiny footprint to aim for with your fingertip; IMHO the format he has right now is suboptimal, it should be landscape form with multitouch zoom in/out, but as it stands his touch targets are incredibly small.
If it were Magic Lite or something, real basics with some of the meat and potatoes of the game built in, basic strategies but nothing that requires tapping or land management, it might work well as it stands. But to try to shoehorn the entirety of MtG into a small screen like that makes me think of that whole "forcing a square peg into a round hole" kinda deal. Cool in initial proof of concept as an idea but right now it's not there as far as execution goes.
I noticed that when he'd select a card to play it would automatically tap the correct number of land - but if I'm playing a two coloured deck and I tap for 2 and a G I might be deliberately NOT using my plains as one of those 2 so I can use my white instant during your turn.
Just to get it out there, the Shandalar game (the old Microprose game from the 1990s) does something similar where you can just double-click the card in your hand and it'll auto-tap the mana, or you can single-click it and then start selecting which lands to tap. It wouldn't be impossible for an app to do something similar.
heck it would not be outside the realm of possibility to have it set up as "select card, turn screen sideways" to tap things, and honestly this makes sense since you have a screen about the size of a card that has direction sensing tech, it might be strange to implement but it would seem more natural than doubleclicking or some such...
I'd love for it to be on the iPad and iPhone the same way the Scrabble app is such that your phone or iPod touch is your hand (in scrabble the tile rack) and the iPad is the game board. This way it prevents cheating and gives you a larger display for the board.
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I've seen people play Modo on netbooks without issue, there's no reason why you couldn't put a version of magic on the Ipad without much issue. Can't imagine having two people using it for the same game though. It seems like the only real use in this would be magic on the go.
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Cyme we inne frið, fram the grip of deaþ to lif inne ðis smylte land.
If this thing got made you would have to grab it quick because as soon as WOTC got wind of it they would have it removed because of copyright issues. <--- I think these are abused and I not a supporter of them by the way. I am just saying. That's IF Apple approved it to begin with. But I join those who would buy it immediately if it was released. I think WOTC needs to hire passionate people to make their products instead of people looking to fluff up their resume.
A virtual MTG that can be used on a LAN or otherwise to allow players to play in the real world would, especially if given the ability to draft and if cheaper than the real game, alienate hobby stores. Without hobby stores, Magic (and any other TCG) has no chance to survive.
((See the spoiler for my original version of this post. Considerably less elegant))
I think its mostly just a slippery slope kinda thing. Make an app that allows you to play magic. Then make it so it can play other players in person (you can even use the motion sensors to hide/reveal your hand when the pad is on the table or facing you). Someone mods it for drafting, and now players don't need to pay for real cards anymore. Give it a monetary thing like MTGO and players (who use this to play in real life) will likely port over to some free variant made by a fan. Once things go digital it becomes way too easy to copy.
I mean, as it is we can make fake magic cards (i.e. the technology of printing isn't too foreign to anyone here). But the DCI tantilizes players with prizes and (rightly so) propagates the playerbase into not accepting proxies when prizes are on the line (or into preferring non-proxies when possible). While the nobler gamers would scoff at the Apprentice-hack game on the iPad/whatever, there would still be a conflict of interest with the cheaper gamers.
The argument for and against proxies (also used in other games like Pokemon and Yu-Gi-Oh! where cheaper foreign cards are not allowed) is simply: "But if we were playing chess you'd let me use a penny if I lost a pawn, right?" That is, in the end your playing the same exact game.
The (considerably sounder) argument against proxies being "it took the designers time and money to make the game; you should support them".
But in the end that's the real reason Wizards doesn't want mobile digital Magic the Gathering. If the card pool was limited or cost money, pirated/hacked/copy programs would appear. If the card pool was expanded and the cards were dirt cheap, their paper or MTGO sales might be threatened. Furthermore, since the devices would be used between friends in the real world and not simply for online play, there'd be too high of a chance that a competitors (or pirate's) free(r) game would be introduced. While Magic would likely be a better game and MTGO has more players than their competitors (see: Alteil for an example of an online TCG), they do so by maintaining the best advertising of all: word of mouth via satisfied customers (who can talk to one another in card shops, etc...).
And while my argument holds little water when you think about the fact Magic has been able to dominate hundreds of other TCGs sold in local gaming shops.
Finally, local gaming shops would despise Wizard's selling directly to customers with virtual cards.
A virtual MTG that can be used on a LAN or otherwise to allow players to play in the real world would, especially if given the ability to draft and if cheaper than the real game, alienate hobby stores. Without hobby stores, Magic (and any other TCG) has no chance to survive.
((See the spoiler for my original version of this post. Considerably less elegant))
I think its mostly just a slippery slope kinda thing. Make an app that allows you to play magic. Then make it so it can play other players in person (you can even use the motion sensors to hide/reveal your hand when the pad is on the table or facing you). Someone mods it for drafting, and now players don't need to pay for real cards anymore. Give it a monetary thing like MTGO and players (who use this to play in real life) will likely port over to some free variant made by a fan. Once things go digital it becomes way too easy to copy.
I mean, as it is we can make fake magic cards (i.e. the technology of printing isn't too foreign to anyone here). But the DCI tantilizes players with prizes and (rightly so) propagates the playerbase into not accepting proxies when prizes are on the line (or into preferring non-proxies when possible). While the nobler gamers would scoff at the Apprentice-hack game on the iPad/whatever, there would still be a conflict of interest with the cheaper gamers.
The argument for and against proxies (also used in other games like Pokemon and Yu-Gi-Oh! where cheaper foreign cards are not allowed) is simply: "But if we were playing chess you'd let me use a penny if I lost a pawn, right?" That is, in the end your playing the same exact game.
The (considerably sounder) argument against proxies being "it took the designers time and money to make the game; you should support them".
But in the end that's the real reason Wizards doesn't want mobile digital Magic the Gathering. If the card pool was limited or cost money, pirated/hacked/copy programs would appear. If the card pool was expanded and the cards were dirt cheap, their paper or MTGO sales might be threatened. Furthermore, since the devices would be used between friends in the real world and not simply for online play, there'd be too high of a chance that a competitors (or pirate's) free(r) game would be introduced. While Magic would likely be a better game and MTGO has more players than their competitors (see: Alteil for an example of an online TCG), they do so by maintaining the best advertising of all: word of mouth via satisfied customers (who can talk to one another in card shops, etc...).
And while my argument holds little water when you think about the fact Magic has been able to dominate hundreds of other TCGs sold in local gaming shops.
Finally, local gaming shops would despise Wizard's selling directly to customers with virtual cards.
MWS essentially provides what you describe, but it hasn't killed any stores. The only difference is that MWS is not on a phone. There is no way this will make the sky fall.
If anything MWS drives sales of cards. I can guarantee I would not be playing Magic today without it, as after a break of several years it was MWS that got me thinking about Magic again, where I would never have jumped back in if all I had was paper or MTGO. The cost barrier and lack of people to play with greatly discourages old players who want to just try the game again. MWS provides
(1) a way to test out new decks, to get excited about them and see what exactly I enjoy before I shell out hundreds of dollars
(2) a way to instantly try and test changes to decks I own, and see what works best
(3) a way to get value out of Magic given the paucity of paper Legacy events to play in
(4) a way to have fun playing wacky decks and interesting things without wasting money lavishly each time
keeping MWS and similar programs alive is one of the smartest things WOTC can do. There is no substitute for rules enforcement and prizes, which is what paper and MTGO provide. They will always hold value.
If anything MWS drives sales of cards. I can guarantee I would not be playing Magic today without it, as after a break of several years it was MWS that got me thinking about Magic again, where I would never have jumped back in if all I had was paper or MTGO. The cost barrier and lack of people to play with greatly discourages old players who want to just try the game again. MWS provides
(1) a way to test out new decks, to get excited about them and see what exactly I enjoy before I shell out hundreds of dollars
(2) a way to instantly try and test changes to decks I own, and see what works best
(3) a way to get value out of Magic given the paucity of paper Legacy events to play in
(4) a way to have fun playing wacky decks and interesting things without wasting money lavishly each time
keeping MWS and similar programs alive is one of the smartest things WOTC can do. There is no substitute for rules enforcement and prizes, which is what paper and MTGO provide. They will always hold value.
totally agreed. MWS is great for deck testing and such, so i can see which cards i actually need to buy etc, but its not without serious flaws. disregarding the fact that it crashes constantly,
1. people on MWS are total jerks
2. text is a very inefficient way to communicate during a game of magic
3. its just not the same as playing with real cards.
because of your reasons and my own, i don't think digital magic simulators will ever displace the real life market for cards.
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Well theirs allready so much "gatherer" and "life total" tools, why the hell should WotC make one themself ?
Maybe they will just "steal" one.
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮
Because they can make a better, official one?
They can't steal a gatherer app. All gatherer apps exist at the mercy of WoTC. It is their website, their intellectual property, etc.
Life total apps, not so much, but they could make a 'dci approved' one or something. Currently apps are not allowed to be used in events.
Twitter
$$$.
The amount of money sunk into existing apps isn't very much.
If they had an app made, they should hire out someone rather than do it in-house...because everything in-house is garbage.
Twitter
None? You've seen every single one of the more than 300,000 apps?
All they need to do would be double tap to zoom (just like everything else on the phone) and the card could go full screen. Done.
The question isn't whether it would work, but whether it would be worth it in my opinion.
Like I said earlier, MODO is awkward enough sometimes, but the mouse+keyboard+large screen help make up for the awkwardness of putting things like turn order and responses into a digital platform. Trying to work your way through the phases of a turn would just be silly on a phone, even one with a physical keyboard.
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I noticed that when he'd select a card to play it would automatically tap the correct number of land - but if I'm playing a two coloured deck and I tap for 2 and a G I might be deliberately NOT using my plains as one of those 2 so I can use my white instant during your turn.
Being a developer myself this is pretty much truth That said though, a lot of apps I've seen worked on (and things I'm working on myself) tend not to be based on larger, esetablished games with intricate interactions that traditionally required a lot of space. Icons I'm working on now are 32x32 and even that's a pretty tiny footprint to aim for with your fingertip; IMHO the format he has right now is suboptimal, it should be landscape form with multitouch zoom in/out, but as it stands his touch targets are incredibly small.
If it were Magic Lite or something, real basics with some of the meat and potatoes of the game built in, basic strategies but nothing that requires tapping or land management, it might work well as it stands. But to try to shoehorn the entirety of MtG into a small screen like that makes me think of that whole "forcing a square peg into a round hole" kinda deal. Cool in initial proof of concept as an idea but right now it's not there as far as execution goes.
Just to get it out there, the Shandalar game (the old Microprose game from the 1990s) does something similar where you can just double-click the card in your hand and it'll auto-tap the mana, or you can single-click it and then start selecting which lands to tap. It wouldn't be impossible for an app to do something similar.
*cough* Wagic *cough*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pt2S9IQ8ies
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOb8k0N5wxc
Wagic: Card Games against an AI on Android/iOS/PSP/Windows/Linux/Nokia N900
"It was probably a lousy spell in the first place."
—Ertai, wizard adept
Legacy: UW Miracle, U MUC, UW StoneBlade, U Merfolk, R Burn, & UB Reanimator
EDH: U Azami, Lady of Scrolls & URG Riku of Two Reflections
Casual: UR Dragonstorm, UB Dralnu-Teachings, U NinjaFae, & UR Izzet EDH
Jason
((See the spoiler for my original version of this post. Considerably less elegant))
I mean, as it is we can make fake magic cards (i.e. the technology of printing isn't too foreign to anyone here). But the DCI tantilizes players with prizes and (rightly so) propagates the playerbase into not accepting proxies when prizes are on the line (or into preferring non-proxies when possible). While the nobler gamers would scoff at the Apprentice-hack game on the iPad/whatever, there would still be a conflict of interest with the cheaper gamers.
The argument for and against proxies (also used in other games like Pokemon and Yu-Gi-Oh! where cheaper foreign cards are not allowed) is simply: "But if we were playing chess you'd let me use a penny if I lost a pawn, right?" That is, in the end your playing the same exact game.
The (considerably sounder) argument against proxies being "it took the designers time and money to make the game; you should support them".
But in the end that's the real reason Wizards doesn't want mobile digital Magic the Gathering. If the card pool was limited or cost money, pirated/hacked/copy programs would appear. If the card pool was expanded and the cards were dirt cheap, their paper or MTGO sales might be threatened. Furthermore, since the devices would be used between friends in the real world and not simply for online play, there'd be too high of a chance that a competitors (or pirate's) free(r) game would be introduced. While Magic would likely be a better game and MTGO has more players than their competitors (see: Alteil for an example of an online TCG), they do so by maintaining the best advertising of all: word of mouth via satisfied customers (who can talk to one another in card shops, etc...).
And while my argument holds little water when you think about the fact Magic has been able to dominate hundreds of other TCGs sold in local gaming shops.
Finally, local gaming shops would despise Wizard's selling directly to customers with virtual cards.
Custom Set: Pokemon: Generation 1
My mind numbing DC-10 stack!
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There were some really important names on board too. Ive sent email to the site moderators but haven't gotten any responses.
MWS essentially provides what you describe, but it hasn't killed any stores. The only difference is that MWS is not on a phone. There is no way this will make the sky fall.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
(1) a way to test out new decks, to get excited about them and see what exactly I enjoy before I shell out hundreds of dollars
(2) a way to instantly try and test changes to decks I own, and see what works best
(3) a way to get value out of Magic given the paucity of paper Legacy events to play in
(4) a way to have fun playing wacky decks and interesting things without wasting money lavishly each time
keeping MWS and similar programs alive is one of the smartest things WOTC can do. There is no substitute for rules enforcement and prizes, which is what paper and MTGO provide. They will always hold value.
0 Karn
W Darien
U Arcanis
B Geth
R Norin
G Yeva
UW Hanna
RB Olivia
WB Obzedat
UR Melek
BG Glissa
WR Aurelia
GU Kraj
BRU Nicol Bolas
RGB Prossh
BGW Ghave
GUB Mimeoplasm
WUBRG Sliver Overlord
GWU Treva, the Renewer
EDH Spike:
U Azami, Lady of Scrolls
Trades
totally agreed. MWS is great for deck testing and such, so i can see which cards i actually need to buy etc, but its not without serious flaws. disregarding the fact that it crashes constantly,
1. people on MWS are total jerks
2. text is a very inefficient way to communicate during a game of magic
3. its just not the same as playing with real cards.
because of your reasons and my own, i don't think digital magic simulators will ever displace the real life market for cards.