Essence Scatter being out is weird. They are accepting that the card failed miserably, but was it its power-level or the whole "functional reprint" thing? Here's hoping Negate is still in, in any case.
I'm a tad annoyed that they've stated over and over that Mythics aren't going to be tournament staples, when Baneslayer is obviously becoming one. Would it actually damage/hinder anyone that much if they reprinted it as a Rare?
In other news, finally time to invest in that set of each dual land! Would've been bad if I'd bought them before they announced this.
This is not true. What Maro actually said was that mythic rares would not be utility cards and that they would not just be a list of the sets best cards. Baneslayer makes sense as a mythic rare and I am happy to see it reprinted. I am interested to see what they are going to do with blue. Seems like they are shaking up blue and it should be interesting.
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Everyone knows that good luck and good game are such insincere terms that any man who does not connect his right hook with the offender's jaw on the very utterance of such a phrase is no man I would consider as such.
Divination going out doesn't surprise me. With Treasure Hunt and Jace, the Mind Sculptor already taking up card advantage slots in blue decks, it's unlikely it will get played much in the next year anyway (its viability had already decreased once Worldwake was released). It's a good time to take a year off and then come back for M12 when Worldwake rotates right around the corner.
Except that limited needs card draw. There will be something to replace it in m11. Let's just hope it's good.
Can someone provide a logical explanation as to why Baneslayer will suddenly drop BEFORE M11 increases its supply?
I've seen it argued that Baneslayer would plummet if it WASN'T reprinted, which makes sense since a lot of its demand would be gone. I've also seen it argued that it would drop if it WAS reprinted. But if both of those things are true, why would people need to wait to see which one is true before the price dropped due to increased supply? It doesn't make logical sense. If it would drop in ANY circumstance, then it wouldn't need to wait, it would be dropping already (which it has been.)
So, in my opinion, we won't see any significant drop beyond what has already been happening. In fact, if an argument can be made that rotation would have made it drop MORE, then between now and the release of M11, Baneslayer should actually stabilize a bit. No?
I can dream that they're taking out Divination so they can put in Impulse, right? Please?
And can we get off the cost of Baneslayers? There seem to be plenty of viable decks that don't need 'em, it's not the most expensive card in standard right now, and the increased supply should push the price down to more reasonable levels. Ok, fingers crossed on the last one, but it's a reasonable expectation.
Ok lets be honest baneslayer is not going to drop 10 dollars when the four best removal cards for dealing with her, Maelstrom pulse, Terminate, path to exile, and Oring will rotate. Also current baneslayers after they got things straight with M10 appear once every 3 boxes. So that will likey be the case with M11, in addition to that M10 is out of print. So whatever is in stock in stores is what you get. Then you have consider if there isn't good removal for here that isn't some sideboard card coming out then her demand will be even greater. Then you have say wait during zend block standard didn't slayer hit $60 at the norm. Yes she did and it doesn't take much for that to be the case again or close to it.
I mean she $37-50 bucks now theres a large gap in price there. How truly rare she is won't drag her price down much its more a question of will she be an auto staple in white again.
I'm a tad annoyed that they've stated over and over that Mythics aren't going to be tournament staples, when Baneslayer is obviously becoming one. Would it actually damage/hinder anyone that much if they reprinted it as a Rare?
In other news, finally time to invest in that set of each dual land! Would've been bad if I'd bought them before they announced this.
Baneslayer is not a staple. The top two decks using white don't run her (Boss Naya and UW Control).
we already did, baneslayer is the new serra angel, which is why WotC is keeping BSA in the standard rotation. they feel she's what serra angel USED to represent back it the old days... except BSA is tournament viable.
You missed my point. I meant goodbye as in she may not be getting reprinted.
This is not true. What Maro actually said was that mythic rares would not be utility cards and that they would not just be a list of the sets best cards. Baneslayer makes sense as a mythic rare and I am happy to see it reprinted. I am interested to see what they are going to do with blue. Seems like they are shaking up blue and it should be interesting.
Well, MaRo may have been a little misleading. Look at Rise of the Eldrazi's priciest cards and tell me that the mythic rares aren't the best cards in the set.
The only argument I see FOR mythic rarity is that it "regulates" Limited, which is untrue. Look at M10 Limited decklists and notice the number of BSAs you see in the top placing decks... it seems quite disproportional to the total supply of rares. That's not really regulating Limited.
To me, if Baneslayer Angel is a new face of the game as LaPille implies, the game is about money and under-costed, strictly-better-than cards.
Perhaps I would be less upset if they made Baneslayer the prerelease promo...? Eh, not by much.
Well, MaRo may have been a little misleading. Look at Rise of the Eldrazi's priciest cards and tell me that the mythic rares aren't the best cards in the set.
The only argument I see FOR mythic rarity is that it "regulates" Limited, which is untrue. Look at M10 Limited decklists and notice the number of BSAs you see in the top placing decks... it seems quite disproportional to the total supply of rares.
To me, if Baneslayer Angel is a new face of the game as LaPille implies, the game is about money and under-costed, strictly-better-than cards.
Perhaps I would be less upset if they made Baneslayer the prerelease promo.
Smother, Consume the Meek, Contaminated Ground, Smite, Student of Warfare, the merfolk leveling lord, etc. There are a ton of cards better than most of the mythics that aren't mythic. Vengevine is probably the only non-planeswalker mythic in the set that's really worth much, as All is Dust and Emrakul are the only others getting a lot of play, and even those aren't the best option in most scenarios. You can't count Gideon because he's a 'walker, and 'walkers are default mythic.
Also, Baneslayer isn't strictly better than Serra Angel. Marginally better, but not strictly.
And the main argument for mythics is that they sell boosters. It's not about the secondary market to wizards. They want people cracking boosters. There are a couple of extremely good mythics (Gideon, for example) that everyone wants to get their hands on. Then there are a lot of mythics (Kozilek, for example) that are just junk. So mythics aren't simply the best cards, they range from good to junk just like every other rarity.
Ok lets be honest baneslayer is not going to drop 10 dollars when the four best removal cards for dealing with her, Maelstrom pulse, Terminate, path to exile, and Oring will rotate. Also current baneslayers after they got things straight with M10 appear once every 3 boxes. So that will likey be the case with M11, in addition to that M10 is out of print. So whatever is in stock in stores is what you get.
Interesting point about standard losing some strong elimination cards. However, Standard will also (presumably) be losing the Mythic Conscription deck, which is currently the only place BSA is heavily played. I don't see that deck working very well without Sovereigns or Rafiq.
On the other hand, Standard will also be losing Elspeth and Ajani Vengeant. Will BSA again find a home in control with 2/4 "superfriends" gone along with many of the good BSA-killers? Seems plausible.
As far as supply, of course there won't be more BSA's per pack, however M11 will be opened for prerelease, release, initial box-purchases and of course drafting. Draft will be M11/M11/M11 for several months, won't it? And if you consider that they PROBABLY will have more M11 on-hand than M10, to avoid a repeat of the shortages of product, you would have to acknowledge that there will be a significant number of BSA's entering the supply.
As to how all of this will affect the final price, I think it will mostly depend on how many (if any) tier 1 decks will be running her after Shards rotation.
Interesting point about standard losing some strong elimination cards. However, Standard will also (presumably) be losing the Mythic Conscription deck, which is currently the only place BSA is heavily played. I don't see that deck working very well without Sovereigns.
On the other hand, Standard will also be losing Elspeth. Will BSA again find a home in control with Elspeth gone along with many of the good BSA-killers? Seems plausible.
As far as supply, of course there won't be more BSA's per pack, however M11 will be opened for prerelease, release, initial box-purchases and of course drafting. Draft will be M11/M11/M11 for several months, won't it? And if you consider that they PROBABLY will have more M11 on-hand than M10, to avoid a repeat of the shortages of product, you would have to acknowledge that there will be a significant number of BSA's entering the supply.
As to how all of this will affect the final price, I think it will mostly depend on how many (if any) tier 1 decks will be running her after Shards rotation.
Sure, we're losing a couple BSA hosers. But we're also getting Plummet, in the color that would normally have the hardest time with BSA. I think there are plenty of answers for her.
Also, the top two decks using white are U/W (and the U/W/r variant) and Mythic, not Naya. Mythic does use her as well.
Really? Cuz word on the street is that UW control that uses a creature to win prefers Sphinx of Jwar Isle. I hear that when you have very few creatures, Shroud is a big thing.
Not to mention there are some "creatureless" builds that plan to win with Jace, and often do win with Jace.
Also, Baneslayer isn't strictly better than Serra Angel. Marginally better, but not strictly.
You've got to be kidding me? She's insane. My problem isn't her at Mythic rarity...I don't like her at rare, uncommon, common, replacing the token slot in every pack, or dropped en masse from planes. She's bad for the game, making the much vaunted "interactivity" of creature based Magic that Wizards was aiming for down to drop Bankslayer and ask your opponent "Removal?" in the same way that a Storm combo player asks "Force?" before going off.
Dumb creatures, aka overpowered, undercosted creatures that take little to no thought, and have very little interaction, sans removal, isn't fun. You just play a bigger fatty...or remove it. I'd much prefer interesting creatures that produce cool interactions and plays like Siege-Gang Commander, World Queller, Master of the Wild Hunt, and even Djinn of Wishes.
Oh well...looks like another Standard full of expensive midrange decks. Not jumping in again anytime soon.
As you can probably guess...I'm not too happy with the Bankslayer reprint. I wished Wizards would have admitted it was a mistake. That they didn't makes me unhappy for the future of the game. I just hope that an entire cycle of them doesn't pop up. One is terrible enough.
And the main argument for mythics is that they sell boosters. It's not about the secondary market to wizards. They want people cracking boosters. There are a couple of extremely good mythics (Gideon, for example) that everyone wants to get their hands on. Then there are a lot of mythics (Kozilek, for example) that are just junk. So mythics aren't simply the best cards, they range from good to junk just like every other rarity.
Mythics can be a great way to sell packs...still doesn't mean you need to screw over the competitive scene to get Timmy to buy packs. Timmy doesn't need Bankslayer to be hyper-undercosted and tourney viable. Timmy is just as happy with Godsire, Hellkite Overlord, or Admonition Angel...if not more so.
Also it is about the secondary market, in a way. A chase Mythic means that dealers will have to crack many boxes to get a supply of them to sell, and as they are artificially scarce, more boxes need to be opened, meaning a greater volume of boxes are cracked. Now I'm not saying Wizards necessarily plans to have chase Mythics...but a chase Mythic does have a severe impact on the secondary market, which does have an effect on Wizard's bottom line, albeit indirectly.
decks use soji NOW because there are those 4 removal cards NOW, come rotation removals quality goes down making baneslayers quality go up, at least thats how im looking at it, so I dont expect her value to do anywhere
Smother, Consume the Meek, Contaminated Ground, Smite, Student of Warfare, the merfolk leveling lord, etc. There are a ton of cards better than most of the mythics that aren't mythic. Vengevine is probably the only non-planeswalker mythic in the set that's really worth much, as All is Dust and Emrakul are the only others getting a lot of play, and even those aren't the best option in most scenarios. You can't count Gideon because he's a 'walker, and 'walkers are default mythic.
Staple mythic rares in RoE by my count: Gideon Jura, Vengevine, Sarkhan the Mad, Kargan Dragonlord, All Is Dust, Emrakul (6, er, 5.5 at least) ; potentially: Transcendent Master and Linvala too. So we've got at least 40% of mythics being staples there. Gideon Jura and Vengevine being the most "stapley," respectively. Also, see: Jace, the Mind Sculptor. Really, the only staple rares I know of in RoE are: Awakening Zone, Consuming Vapors, Student of Warfare, and Devastating Summons, ah, and Consume the Meek. That's a lower percentage, I daresay.
Staple mythic rares in RoE by my count: Gideon Jura, Vengevine, Sarkhan the Mad, Kargan Dragonlord, All Is Dust, Emrakul (6, er, 5.5 at least) ; potentially: Transcendent Master and Linvala too. So we've got at least 40% of mythics being staples there. Gideon Jura and Vengevine being the most "stapley," respectively. Also, see: Jace, the Mind Sculptor. Really, the only staple rares I know of in RoE are: Awakening Zone, Consuming Vapors, Student of Warfare, and Devastating Summons, ah, and Consume the Meek. That's a lower percentage, I daresay.
Let's look at the top competitive decks:
Boss Naya, UW Control, RDW, Jund, Bant Conscription, UG Polymorph, and UWR Planeswalkers. Of those, Boss Naya, Jund, Bant Conscription, and UG Polymorph use green. Only Boss Naya uses Vengevine. Hardly staple. Of those, Boss Naya, UW Control, Bant Conscription, and UWR Planeswalkers use white. UW Control and UWR Planeswalkers use Gideon, with some Naya and Bant Conscription builds also running him. Much closer to staple, but he's also a planeswalker, so default Mythic. Sarkhan the Mad isn't staple, at all. Kargan Dragonlord is also only used in some builds of RDW. Not staple. All is Dust is definitely not staple. Very few decks actually run it. Emrakul? Very, very far from staple. He's used mostly in UG Polymorph. That's about it. And he's not as good of a choice as Iona, who also isn't a staple. You need to learn the definition of what a staple card is. And Student of Warfare is used in WW, a tier 2 deck. Very much not staple.
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This is not true. What Maro actually said was that mythic rares would not be utility cards and that they would not just be a list of the sets best cards. Baneslayer makes sense as a mythic rare and I am happy to see it reprinted. I am interested to see what they are going to do with blue. Seems like they are shaking up blue and it should be interesting.
From Denver, but going to college in Illinois.
My Cube
HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!
I was so sure that they would bring out Enemy Colored Dual Lands, but apparently Wizards likes being predictable, then spitting in your face.
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
Except that limited needs card draw. There will be something to replace it in m11. Let's just hope it's good.
I've seen it argued that Baneslayer would plummet if it WASN'T reprinted, which makes sense since a lot of its demand would be gone. I've also seen it argued that it would drop if it WAS reprinted. But if both of those things are true, why would people need to wait to see which one is true before the price dropped due to increased supply? It doesn't make logical sense. If it would drop in ANY circumstance, then it wouldn't need to wait, it would be dropping already (which it has been.)
So, in my opinion, we won't see any significant drop beyond what has already been happening. In fact, if an argument can be made that rotation would have made it drop MORE, then between now and the release of M11, Baneslayer should actually stabilize a bit. No?
And can we get off the cost of Baneslayers? There seem to be plenty of viable decks that don't need 'em, it's not the most expensive card in standard right now, and the increased supply should push the price down to more reasonable levels. Ok, fingers crossed on the last one, but it's a reasonable expectation.
Current post- Grand Prix KC Modern Postmortem (7/7/13)
I mean she $37-50 bucks now theres a large gap in price there. How truly rare she is won't drag her price down much its more a question of will she be an auto staple in white again.
Baneslayer is not a staple. The top two decks using white don't run her (Boss Naya and UW Control).
You missed my point. I meant goodbye as in she may not be getting reprinted.
My art blog
Claims:
The kicker variant in WWK will be "Kicker without a kicked effect." - proven wrong Jan 2010 : 2 wrongs
Decks:
:symu::symb: Bloodchief Ascension - Modern
:symb::symr: Rakdos, the Defiler - EDH
:symu::symb::symw: Sharuum the Hegemon - EDH
:symw::symu::symb: Zur the Enchanter - EDH
Well, MaRo may have been a little misleading. Look at Rise of the Eldrazi's priciest cards and tell me that the mythic rares aren't the best cards in the set.
The only argument I see FOR mythic rarity is that it "regulates" Limited, which is untrue. Look at M10 Limited decklists and notice the number of BSAs you see in the top placing decks... it seems quite disproportional to the total supply of rares. That's not really regulating Limited.
To me, if Baneslayer Angel is a new face of the game as LaPille implies, the game is about money and under-costed, strictly-better-than cards.
Perhaps I would be less upset if they made Baneslayer the prerelease promo...? Eh, not by much.
More like they intended to make sure it wasn't around to be abused...becuaue SoM will be full of artifacts, of course.
Smother, Consume the Meek, Contaminated Ground, Smite, Student of Warfare, the merfolk leveling lord, etc. There are a ton of cards better than most of the mythics that aren't mythic. Vengevine is probably the only non-planeswalker mythic in the set that's really worth much, as All is Dust and Emrakul are the only others getting a lot of play, and even those aren't the best option in most scenarios. You can't count Gideon because he's a 'walker, and 'walkers are default mythic.
Also, Baneslayer isn't strictly better than Serra Angel. Marginally better, but not strictly.
And the main argument for mythics is that they sell boosters. It's not about the secondary market to wizards. They want people cracking boosters. There are a couple of extremely good mythics (Gideon, for example) that everyone wants to get their hands on. Then there are a lot of mythics (Kozilek, for example) that are just junk. So mythics aren't simply the best cards, they range from good to junk just like every other rarity.
My art blog
Claims:
The kicker variant in WWK will be "Kicker without a kicked effect." - proven wrong Jan 2010 : 2 wrongs
Decks:
:symu::symb: Bloodchief Ascension - Modern
:symb::symr: Rakdos, the Defiler - EDH
:symu::symb::symw: Sharuum the Hegemon - EDH
:symw::symu::symb: Zur the Enchanter - EDH
Interesting point about standard losing some strong elimination cards. However, Standard will also (presumably) be losing the Mythic Conscription deck, which is currently the only place BSA is heavily played. I don't see that deck working very well without Sovereigns or Rafiq.
On the other hand, Standard will also be losing Elspeth and Ajani Vengeant. Will BSA again find a home in control with 2/4 "superfriends" gone along with many of the good BSA-killers? Seems plausible.
As far as supply, of course there won't be more BSA's per pack, however M11 will be opened for prerelease, release, initial box-purchases and of course drafting. Draft will be M11/M11/M11 for several months, won't it? And if you consider that they PROBABLY will have more M11 on-hand than M10, to avoid a repeat of the shortages of product, you would have to acknowledge that there will be a significant number of BSA's entering the supply.
As to how all of this will affect the final price, I think it will mostly depend on how many (if any) tier 1 decks will be running her after Shards rotation.
Marginally better??? (faint)
Sure, we're losing a couple BSA hosers. But we're also getting Plummet, in the color that would normally have the hardest time with BSA. I think there are plenty of answers for her.
My art blog
Claims:
The kicker variant in WWK will be "Kicker without a kicked effect." - proven wrong Jan 2010 : 2 wrongs
Decks:
:symu::symb: Bloodchief Ascension - Modern
:symb::symr: Rakdos, the Defiler - EDH
:symu::symb::symw: Sharuum the Hegemon - EDH
:symw::symu::symb: Zur the Enchanter - EDH
She is most definitely a staple in U/W control.
Also, the top two decks using white are U/W (and the U/W/r variant) and Mythic, not Naya. Mythic does use her as well.
Current post- Grand Prix KC Modern Postmortem (7/7/13)
Really? Cuz word on the street is that UW control that uses a creature to win prefers Sphinx of Jwar Isle. I hear that when you have very few creatures, Shroud is a big thing.
Not to mention there are some "creatureless" builds that plan to win with Jace, and often do win with Jace.
My art blog
Claims:
The kicker variant in WWK will be "Kicker without a kicked effect." - proven wrong Jan 2010 : 2 wrongs
Decks:
:symu::symb: Bloodchief Ascension - Modern
:symb::symr: Rakdos, the Defiler - EDH
:symu::symb::symw: Sharuum the Hegemon - EDH
:symw::symu::symb: Zur the Enchanter - EDH
You've got to be kidding me? She's insane. My problem isn't her at Mythic rarity...I don't like her at rare, uncommon, common, replacing the token slot in every pack, or dropped en masse from planes. She's bad for the game, making the much vaunted "interactivity" of creature based Magic that Wizards was aiming for down to drop Bankslayer and ask your opponent "Removal?" in the same way that a Storm combo player asks "Force?" before going off.
Dumb creatures, aka overpowered, undercosted creatures that take little to no thought, and have very little interaction, sans removal, isn't fun. You just play a bigger fatty...or remove it. I'd much prefer interesting creatures that produce cool interactions and plays like Siege-Gang Commander, World Queller, Master of the Wild Hunt, and even Djinn of Wishes.
Oh well...looks like another Standard full of expensive midrange decks. Not jumping in again anytime soon.
As you can probably guess...I'm not too happy with the Bankslayer reprint. I wished Wizards would have admitted it was a mistake. That they didn't makes me unhappy for the future of the game. I just hope that an entire cycle of them doesn't pop up. One is terrible enough.
Mythics can be a great way to sell packs...still doesn't mean you need to screw over the competitive scene to get Timmy to buy packs. Timmy doesn't need Bankslayer to be hyper-undercosted and tourney viable. Timmy is just as happy with Godsire, Hellkite Overlord, or Admonition Angel...if not more so.
Also it is about the secondary market, in a way. A chase Mythic means that dealers will have to crack many boxes to get a supply of them to sell, and as they are artificially scarce, more boxes need to be opened, meaning a greater volume of boxes are cracked. Now I'm not saying Wizards necessarily plans to have chase Mythics...but a chase Mythic does have a severe impact on the secondary market, which does have an effect on Wizard's bottom line, albeit indirectly.
Smother?!
Staple mythic rares in RoE by my count: Gideon Jura, Vengevine, Sarkhan the Mad, Kargan Dragonlord, All Is Dust, Emrakul (6, er, 5.5 at least) ; potentially: Transcendent Master and Linvala too. So we've got at least 40% of mythics being staples there. Gideon Jura and Vengevine being the most "stapley," respectively. Also, see: Jace, the Mind Sculptor. Really, the only staple rares I know of in RoE are: Awakening Zone, Consuming Vapors, Student of Warfare, and Devastating Summons, ah, and Consume the Meek. That's a lower percentage, I daresay.
Let's look at the top competitive decks:
Boss Naya, UW Control, RDW, Jund, Bant Conscription, UG Polymorph, and UWR Planeswalkers. Of those, Boss Naya, Jund, Bant Conscription, and UG Polymorph use green. Only Boss Naya uses Vengevine. Hardly staple. Of those, Boss Naya, UW Control, Bant Conscription, and UWR Planeswalkers use white. UW Control and UWR Planeswalkers use Gideon, with some Naya and Bant Conscription builds also running him. Much closer to staple, but he's also a planeswalker, so default Mythic. Sarkhan the Mad isn't staple, at all. Kargan Dragonlord is also only used in some builds of RDW. Not staple. All is Dust is definitely not staple. Very few decks actually run it. Emrakul? Very, very far from staple. He's used mostly in UG Polymorph. That's about it. And he's not as good of a choice as Iona, who also isn't a staple. You need to learn the definition of what a staple card is. And Student of Warfare is used in WW, a tier 2 deck. Very much not staple.
My art blog
Claims:
The kicker variant in WWK will be "Kicker without a kicked effect." - proven wrong Jan 2010 : 2 wrongs
Decks:
:symu::symb: Bloodchief Ascension - Modern
:symb::symr: Rakdos, the Defiler - EDH
:symu::symb::symw: Sharuum the Hegemon - EDH
:symw::symu::symb: Zur the Enchanter - EDH