Planechase is amazing with EDH.
Archenemy might be another way to add the chaos...too bad the cards look like ass. I'll be watching as more get spoiled.
Just hopes this doesn't mean the end of Planechase...
Don't you think they might have missed a chance at additional epic flavor? I mean, from the preview, it looks like they put a lot of great effort into designing cards that make being a megalomaniac super-entertaining, but I really wish one of the Archenemy sets was for a right man in the right place hero of some sorts.
Am I the only one that thinks that alternate-type formats like planechase and archenemy and vanguard take away from the real essence of the game? I mean, if you need to jazz up your casual multipayer because you're getting bored, then you're doing it wrong.
People don't need to jazz up their multiplayer because they're bored, they want to bring in some variety simply because it's an option.
Say you live right next door to an Italian restaurant. A damn good one. You've sampled almost every item on their menu and they're always trying new recipes. The place is awesome about substitutions and, since you're a regular, they don't even bat an eye when you ask for a little extra marinara on your spaghetti. After all, it's your meal. You love the place and go there almost every day.
But there's this Southwestern/Middle Eastern/Asian fusion restaurant that just opened up across the street, so ya try it out. The tastes are simultaneously familiar yet exotic, the portions are huge, and the prices are comparable to your favorite Italian place.
Does stopping by the new place every now and then for something the Italian place can't give you mean you're bored by the Italian place? No. It just means you wanted that something else more than you wanted Italian that day.
The scalability thing is ridiculously easily solved. Just say something like;
if there are 4 or more opponents, get 2 schemes/turn
if there are 8 or more , get 3 schemes/turn
or whatever numbers you think scale best.
I think that wouldn't be necessary, since I can't see myself ever playing a game of Magic with more than 6 players involved. Ever.
What really annoys me though is that the life of the archenemy doesn't scale! I expected that the archenemy would start with 20 life for each opponent, not with 40 life fixed! Scaling life would have made this playable for up to four or five opponents (which should be enough). Having a fixed starting life total of 40 seems to only make sense if you are facing two or three opponents. Against four opponents, they would have twice as much life as you do!
In the end this seems to be a fun variant for a three player game (one archenemy, two opponents), which is lacking a good multiplayer variant right now.
Pretty lackluster, would of been nice to have everything in 1 box, but nooo let's do 4 boxes...
Exactly! I am just not interested in those decks, I want the special oversized cards! I would have bought the plane cards at 20 € for all 40 and I would have been tempted if I could buy 90 scheme cards (two of each) for 40 €. I don't want to spend extra money for those preconstructed decks, though.
@ KingChewie-The remider text for ongoing schemes states "(An ongoing scheme remains face up until it'sabandonded.)" followed by this in the article....
This suggest that you still set schemes into motion even if you have an ongoing,or multiple ongoing,scheme out.
If you want more nutsy awsomeness if you already have "My Undead Horde Awakens" ongoing and on your next turn you set "All in Good Time" in motion "MUHA" will still be ongoing on the extra turn since it was set in motion on a different turn.
I love that its abbreviation is MUHA, we just need to find another HA at the end so it can actually be MUHAHA.
i dont really like the idea of the schemes.. its kinda feel like a cheap way to make new products.. its like a free spell each turn ,and imo not that powerful to make you compete with 3,4,5 other players ,you will get crushed..
the only thing that doesnt make me say ''this product sucks'' is the art, the stupid but kinda funny names , and hopefully some good decklists with at least USEFUL casual cards , not like the PW decks ~
Looking at the graphics on the box, is it safe to assume that Master Transmuter, Flameblast Dragon, Avatar of Woe? and Molimo? are included in these decks?
Wow, that is hideous. I want nothing to do with this. I mean, flavourful wording is fine in to an extent, but give me a break. And the card borders look pretty awful as well. Plus, it doesn't even look that much fun. Uneven games never are, regardless of how good the balancing is.
/rant
I'm on board with you. I'm not sure I'll have any money for this product. I'll be too busy saving up for M11
Looking at the graphics on the box, is it safe to assume that Master Transmuter, Flameblast Dragon, Avatar of Woe? and Molimo? are included in these decks?
woah, good catch, its definately them, im so buying the black deck now : D
I think that wouldn't be necessary, since I can't see myself ever playing a game of Magic with more than 6 players involved. Ever.
What really annoys me though is that the life of the archenemy doesn't scale! I expected that the archenemy would start with 20 life for each opponent, not with 40 life fixed! Scaling life would have made this playable for up to four or five opponents (which should be enough). Having a fixed starting life total of 40 seems to only make sense if you are facing two or three opponents. Against four opponents, they would have twice as much life as you do!
In the end this seems to be a fun variant for a three player game (one archenemy, two opponents), which is lacking a good multiplayer variant right now.
1 vs 2 = 40 vs 20 life
1 vs 3 = 50 vs 25 life
1 vs 4 = 60 vs 30 life
This sounds a lot like the raid decks in wow. Those kind of games are a lot of fun, IF you and your team mates have some decent decks to compete against the archenemy with. Otherwise you quickly get overwhelmed by whelps.
I will probably pick these up just because I love varients, and have all the Vanguards and Planechase, and our playgroup almost always plays group games.
I would say the visual design of the cards is great, but the product does seem like it is missing something. If each deck had a character card (Vanguard type card) that gave you a solid and ongoing boost, in addition to the Schemes, I think that would add alot to the theme and power level of the Archenemy player. I also like the flavor text and titles revealed so far, and the epic feeling of the art.
I tend to build themed decks designed for group play, so I should be able to modify something I already have to be able to work as an Archenemy deck, but I somehow doubt the feasability of being able to include a 60 card precon that will do the job without modding, though it would be fun to restrict yourself to the Archenemy precon, and allow the 'raiders' to only use differant VS decks.
For $24.99 compared to the Planechase decks $19.99 MSRP, I am surprised these decks dont come with more. Planechase gave you a 10 card Planechase deck (all unique, it was stated some of the Schemes here will overlap between decks, I am guessing it will average out to only 40-50 unique cards.) as well as the 2 dice, and the deck box (cardboard). Compare that with these, $24.99 for a 60 card precon and 20 Schemes. I feel they could have gone the extra mile and included a character card, as mentioned above, or even an oversized 40-point spindown with the Archenemy logo as the 40.
I'm rather disappointed in this. This sounded like it would be awesome at first, if they took it in a different (more WoW raid-like) direction.
When I heard about assembling doomsday devices and raising undead hordes I figured the Archenemy decks would have an alternative goal (control 20 zombies, get out specfic artifacts to create a doomsday device, etc.) that the players would have to stop them from doing.
As it stands this is just Planechase that I get and you don't. Nothing really unique about it.
A correction needs to be made in the OP. It lists 45 Scheme cards in each pack when in reality it is 45 Scheme cards in total with 20 in each pack. Because of this, some Scheme cards will appear in multiple packs. Buying all 4 packs will result in some duplication of Scheme cards. At last 10 of the 45 cards would need to be duplicates according to my calculation.
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"You said you wanted to cast what?! Counter that!"
Blah. Who would actually want to play this if they aren't the "archenemy"? They get huge splashy effects while the rest of the players get... um... one target to try to kill? Planechase was brilliant because it could turn the game in anyone's favor at any moment. Archenemy only has the ability to turn the tide for ONE person. Hopefully planechase sees more backing before more inferior (imo) multiplayer gimicks come out.
I'll give it a shot at the release party. It doesn't grab me the way Planechase did, but I'll see how it goes. I did like how each Planechase set had unique planar cards, but redundant schemes, plus the $5 higher MSRP make it that much easier for me to be content with just one.
im happy about this new game type. in my play group, there are some who just arn't up to par with the others, and always are left out in big games, because they kinda suck. but this gives them a chance to combat aginst one of the higher ups, and have an even chance of winning.
not to mention, i love the flavor of archenemy. when im him, im'a going to wear my black robe from halloween, laugh alot (evil laugh, of course.), and even spill out my evil plan as the heros are on the brink of destruction. then i'll curse them as they beat me by some crazy chain reaction. ahh, the life of a nerd.
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Hmm, seems like you could duplicate this pretty easily without buying the pretty big cards.
Or you could easily duplicate the entire game of Magic without buying any cards.
Admittedly, my attitude toward this has dropped from stoked to cautious now that I've seen some of the scheme cards, which seem weak to me. The way things are set up, it seems the Archenemy will be completely screwed if facing all permission decks - I'm not sure the scheme cards will be strong enough to make up for it.
The cool thing with products like this is that they are for the casual market. When people say that we are expected to just balance it ourselves, that is incorrect. WoTC has balanced and tested the product, but we are free to balance it any way we like it.
In planechase our playgroup decided to make a custom D8 with two each chaos and planeswalk symbols. We like it better, but the D6 provided was perfectly fine, we just wanted to change planes more often.
The You/Them cards are likely to be strong enough to make this fairly balanced along with the ongoing schemes. If you get a reanimation each turn online, then another ongoing scheme the power level could add up fast. The more graveyards to pick from, the stronger the scheme is as well.
PC was 4 decks at $20 each for 40 planes total. AE is 4 decks at $25 each for 80 schemes total (80/45). I can see why some schemes would overlap and the extra product costs extra to print.
As for alternate win conditions, I think that will be the point of the decks. Some of the decks will be built around alternate win conditions and the schemes will help you accomplish them.
Archenemy might be another way to add the chaos...too bad the cards look like ass. I'll be watching as more get spoiled.
Just hopes this doesn't mean the end of Planechase...
R Grenzo, Havoc Raiser
BG Varolz, the scar-striped
Which of you burns brightest?
"Let that be a lesson to you, your family and everyone you have ever known."
UBR Mishra Artifacts UBR
People don't need to jazz up their multiplayer because they're bored, they want to bring in some variety simply because it's an option.
Say you live right next door to an Italian restaurant. A damn good one. You've sampled almost every item on their menu and they're always trying new recipes. The place is awesome about substitutions and, since you're a regular, they don't even bat an eye when you ask for a little extra marinara on your spaghetti. After all, it's your meal. You love the place and go there almost every day.
But there's this Southwestern/Middle Eastern/Asian fusion restaurant that just opened up across the street, so ya try it out. The tastes are simultaneously familiar yet exotic, the portions are huge, and the prices are comparable to your favorite Italian place.
Does stopping by the new place every now and then for something the Italian place can't give you mean you're bored by the Italian place? No. It just means you wanted that something else more than you wanted Italian that day.
seems interesting though
I think that wouldn't be necessary, since I can't see myself ever playing a game of Magic with more than 6 players involved. Ever.
What really annoys me though is that the life of the archenemy doesn't scale! I expected that the archenemy would start with 20 life for each opponent, not with 40 life fixed! Scaling life would have made this playable for up to four or five opponents (which should be enough). Having a fixed starting life total of 40 seems to only make sense if you are facing two or three opponents. Against four opponents, they would have twice as much life as you do!
In the end this seems to be a fun variant for a three player game (one archenemy, two opponents), which is lacking a good multiplayer variant right now.
Uril, the Miststalker RGW -- Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre C -- Vhati il-Dal BG -- Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer RW -- Animar, Soul of Elements URG
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker R -- Maga, Traitor to Mortals B -- Ghave, Guru of Spores BGW -- Sliver Hivelord WUBRG
Exactly! I am just not interested in those decks, I want the special oversized cards! I would have bought the plane cards at 20 € for all 40 and I would have been tempted if I could buy 90 scheme cards (two of each) for 40 €. I don't want to spend extra money for those preconstructed decks, though.
Uril, the Miststalker RGW -- Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre C -- Vhati il-Dal BG -- Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer RW -- Animar, Soul of Elements URG
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker R -- Maga, Traitor to Mortals B -- Ghave, Guru of Spores BGW -- Sliver Hivelord WUBRG
I love that its abbreviation is MUHA, we just need to find another HA at the end so it can actually be MUHAHA.
Cause, that would rule. For real.
the only thing that doesnt make me say ''this product sucks'' is the art, the stupid but kinda funny names , and hopefully some good decklists with at least USEFUL casual cards , not like the PW decks ~
Δε φοβάμαι τίποτα...
Είμαι Άνεργος.
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I'm on board with you. I'm not sure I'll have any money for this product. I'll be too busy saving up for M11
woah, good catch, its definately them, im so buying the black deck now : D
Δε φοβάμαι τίποτα...
Είμαι Άνεργος.
Grimstringer on Cockatrice, add me if you wanna
1 vs 2 = 40 vs 20 life
1 vs 3 = 50 vs 25 life
1 vs 4 = 60 vs 30 life
its called improvising.
Otherwise you quickly get overwhelmed by whelps.Clan MTGSalivation :: Trade Thread
"In another life, in another dream,
By a different name,
Gave it all away for a memory and a quiet lie.
But I felt the face of a cold tonight,
Still don't know the score,
But I know the pain of leaving everything very far behind.
And if I could cry,
And if I could live,
What truth I did then take me there,
Heaven Goodbye."
-Heaven's Not Enough, by Steve Conte
I would say the visual design of the cards is great, but the product does seem like it is missing something. If each deck had a character card (Vanguard type card) that gave you a solid and ongoing boost, in addition to the Schemes, I think that would add alot to the theme and power level of the Archenemy player. I also like the flavor text and titles revealed so far, and the epic feeling of the art.
I tend to build themed decks designed for group play, so I should be able to modify something I already have to be able to work as an Archenemy deck, but I somehow doubt the feasability of being able to include a 60 card precon that will do the job without modding, though it would be fun to restrict yourself to the Archenemy precon, and allow the 'raiders' to only use differant VS decks.
For $24.99 compared to the Planechase decks $19.99 MSRP, I am surprised these decks dont come with more. Planechase gave you a 10 card Planechase deck (all unique, it was stated some of the Schemes here will overlap between decks, I am guessing it will average out to only 40-50 unique cards.) as well as the 2 dice, and the deck box (cardboard). Compare that with these, $24.99 for a 60 card precon and 20 Schemes. I feel they could have gone the extra mile and included a character card, as mentioned above, or even an oversized 40-point spindown with the Archenemy logo as the 40.
When I heard about assembling doomsday devices and raising undead hordes I figured the Archenemy decks would have an alternative goal (control 20 zombies, get out specfic artifacts to create a doomsday device, etc.) that the players would have to stop them from doing.
As it stands this is just Planechase that I get and you don't. Nothing really unique about it.
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"You said you wanted to cast what?! Counter that!"
not to mention, i love the flavor of archenemy. when im him, im'a going to wear my black robe from halloween, laugh alot (evil laugh, of course.), and even spill out my evil plan as the heros are on the brink of destruction. then i'll curse them as they beat me by some crazy chain reaction. ahh, the life of a nerd.
If you want to request me, let me know who you are or I'll ignore it.
Standard
GBInfectBG
WBGAlliesGBW
Casual
WGKnightsGW
BUNinjasUB
BGWTreefolkWGB
EDH
WGBTeneb, the HarvesterBGW
UBWrexialBU
WUGJenara BlinkGUW
WRJor KadeenRW
Or you could easily duplicate the entire game of Magic without buying any cards.
Admittedly, my attitude toward this has dropped from stoked to cautious now that I've seen some of the scheme cards, which seem weak to me. The way things are set up, it seems the Archenemy will be completely screwed if facing all permission decks - I'm not sure the scheme cards will be strong enough to make up for it.
In planechase our playgroup decided to make a custom D8 with two each chaos and planeswalk symbols. We like it better, but the D6 provided was perfectly fine, we just wanted to change planes more often.
The You/Them cards are likely to be strong enough to make this fairly balanced along with the ongoing schemes. If you get a reanimation each turn online, then another ongoing scheme the power level could add up fast. The more graveyards to pick from, the stronger the scheme is as well.
PC was 4 decks at $20 each for 40 planes total. AE is 4 decks at $25 each for 80 schemes total (80/45). I can see why some schemes would overlap and the extra product costs extra to print.
As for alternate win conditions, I think that will be the point of the decks. Some of the decks will be built around alternate win conditions and the schemes will help you accomplish them.
and as for the serisous folks out there I bet you disliked the unsets too:p jk don't kill me! but on a more serious note : why so serious?