I really hope these are wrong. Of all the possible abilities that Thornling could get, haste has to be the most pointless. Having an activated ability that is only usable once is really terrible design.
Also, indestructible is just plain worse than shroud would be. Very dissapointing if true.
How does Thornling get haste when that's a red ability not a green one ? Something like vigilance would have made more sense.
Haste actually is secondary to green now, but so is vigilance, and you are correct that it would make more sense. Vigilance would allow it to play offense and defense, which was one of the defining characteristics of Morphling and Torchling.
Haste on Thornling bothers me too. M'eh, time for everyone to stop whining about it though, I feel. How many more people are gonna post the exact same message? I wonder...
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- It's mythic. WHY? What's the POINT of making it mythic?
- Indestructability? WTF Wizards? Don't you realize that Oblivion Ring, Unmake, and the soon Path to Exile are going to be in standard laughing at the indestructability?
Wizards could have really made Thornling so much better... Conflux is just not looking to be good at all.
I suppose giving Thornling regeneration would be redundant. I do miss the point of replacing the untap ability with haste because green has a bigger share of the Untapping slice than red, and vice versa. :|
Well, in Planar Chaos, haste was green. That's why the red Akroma didn't have haste. (or first strike since that was black) Of course, haste is a secondary ability of green's pie now, and green isn't about control. Haste is perfectly fine to have its Morphling aggro your face off. Trample and indestructible are also rather good for aggro. Now, we have the control version, the thug that goes around beating on all those innocent creatures, and the aggro version. When we get white Morphling, you can see untap again, probably accompanied by first strike, and protection from the color of your choice.
- It's mythic. WHY? What's the POINT of making it mythic?
- Indestructability? WTF Wizards? Don't you realize that Oblivion Ring, Unmake, and the soon Path to Exile are going to be in standard laughing at the indestructability?
Wizards could have really made Thornling so much better... Conflux is just not looking to be good at all.
In theory, I'd suppose that it's meant to be iconic.
I agree with you, though. It's saddening, because half of this card's abilities are no good in this environment.
Just imagine if Thornling had shroud instead of indestructability.
I also definately agree 100% that haste was completely pointless. This is not Planar Chaos. Seems like very poor and lazy development of the card on WotC's part.
After their failure with Torchling they supped up the green dude. Improving it also gives them an excuse to make it Mythic. lol
I disagree with people who say Indestructible is worse than Shroud. Indestructibility stops a lot more and makes it a lot better in combat. Indestructibility opens its uses to more decks(control, ramp, mid-range aggro).
After their failure with Torchling they supped up the green dude. Improving it also gives them an excuse to make it Mythic. lol
I disagree with people who say Indestructible is worse than Shroud. Indestructibility stops a lot more and makes it a lot better in combat. Indestructibility opens its uses to more decks(control, ramp, mid-range aggro).
I like it a lot.
The +1/-1 and -1/+1 abilities already make it ridiculous in combat. Indestructibility is pointless there.
Shroud is better at protecting a creature because Oblivion Ring, Unmake, and Condemn all see good amount of play in Type 2.
After their failure with Torchling they supped up the green dude. Improving it also gives them an excuse to make it Mythic. lol
I disagree with people who say Indestructible is worse than Shroud. Indestructibility stops a lot more and makes it a lot better in combat. Indestructibility opens its uses to more decks(control, ramp, mid-range aggro).
I like it a lot.
I'd like it in any of those kinds of decks if Path to Exile wasn't going to be released in the same set as this guy, and if Boggart Ram-Gang and Puncture Blast didn't see play in my area.
After their failure with Torchling they supped up the green dude. Improving it also gives them an excuse to make it Mythic. lol
I disagree with people who say Indestructible is worse than Shroud. Indestructibility stops a lot more and makes it a lot better in combat. Indestructibility opens its uses to more decks(control, ramp, mid-range aggro).
I like it a lot.
this is a a 4/4 that can become a 0/8 wall. 0/8's take alot to kill in combat, so destroying them via combat is going to be hard. targetted removal is stopped by shroud/super shroud, which means they will need to expend their mass removal to kill it. i would rather my opponent 1 for 1 wrath my thornling than Oring/PtE him.
Yes, if you have infinite mana, indestructible is marginal on this dude. although, oh, it does stop it dying to wrath. or terror. Or...well, most removal (yes, some removal kills it. Boo Hoo).
But if you don't have infinite mana and have, say, just the 5 you summoned it with the turn after having a 7/1 indestructible trampler seems better than ok.
Torchling should have gotten First Strike instead of Untap, I agree, but Haste isn't a terrible ability in green. Why would you untap anyway? To give it trample? At least Morphling's ability lets it block flying creatures.
Even if the ability was something completely horrible that actually changed the way the creature functioned anytime I activated it, I'd like it better than haste. I just don't like how that ability is only relevant once (barring some sort of narrow spell that only affects creatures with haste or something).
Yes, if you have infinite mana, indestructible is marginal on this dude. although, oh, it does stop it dying to wrath. or terror. Or...well, most removal (yes, some removal kills it. Boo Hoo).
But if you don't have infinite mana and have, say, just the 5 you summoned it with the turn after having a 7/1 indestructible trampler seems better than ok.
you dont need infinite mana, you attack with a 4/4 if they block you shuffle things around, if they dont you make it a 7/1. i dont see how indestructible is relevant when its unblocked.
as for infinite mana, once you cast this guy i dont think you really need to play more spells. cause he says deal with me before i kill you
Anyway, I believe that this spoiler is not too true.. A mythic Thornling? this dude didn't even know the creature type...
you would need two infests and mutilate isnt in type two i dont think, and nobody would play this in another format.
i dont think he thought indestructibaility meant he couldnt die. i think what he meant was most removal isnt -x/-4, and he will a lot of the time have 4 toughness when hes being hit with removal
In what universe? If you build a deck like that, and ever draw that hand, I will personally come to wherever you live, perform complicated acts of awestruck *********, then disembowel myself to escape the world that allowed something like to to occur and validate you.
It cannot naturally be a 7/1 without outside pump. Because it gets +1/-1 and -1/+1, the highest power it can have by its own abilities is 5/1. Classic first timer mistake.
In theory, if you had an enormous amount of mana, you could pump its toughness past the point where it has no power, and then pump its power until it has a toughness of one. Or am I missing something?
In theory, if you had an enormous amount of mana, you could pump its toughness past the point where it has no power, and then pump its power until it has a toughness of one. Or am I missing something?
I was partially wrong because at first I did not realize this is a 4/4 unlike the other 'lings, which are 3/3, so this can be a 7/1. However, your idea does not work. When you give this creature an arbitrarily large amount of -1/+1 activations, the game keeps track of the negative power so when you activate the +1/-1 ability, you have to eliminate the negative power before it goes back up positive.
Haste actually is secondary to green now, but so is vigilance, and you are correct that it would make more sense. Vigilance would allow it to play offense and defense, which was one of the defining characteristics of Morphling and Torchling.
Actually I believe Haste is tertiary in green, not secondary. MaRo originally considered green for secondary status but in the end felt that black needed the extra keyword more.
So for those skimming:
Haste is:
Primary is Red
Secondary in Black
Tertiary in Green
Here is MaRo's explanation of tertiary status (bolded for emphasis):
Tertiary status means that it's acceptable to occasionally give green haste but very rarely and only where flavor strongly fits. An another example of a tertiary status would be first strike in black. We do it infrequently, but from time to time we make a knight in black that wants to have a combat feel and we give it first strike. Another important aspect of a tertiary status is that the ability is not defined in that color. Haste, for instance, isn't a green thing. If we were designing an enchantment that granted haste to all creatures we wouldn't put it in green (yes, Concordant Crossroads isn't allowable in the modern-day color pie). If we were designing a multicolor card, we couldn't make haste the thing that the green half is giving the card. Tertiary status allows the exception but doesn't make it an organic part of the color.
So for all of you screaming that haste isn't green, you are in fact correct. It's not part of that colour, but since it has tertiary status they can use it on rare occasions. Although I admit, I'm not seeing much in terms of the "strong flavour" argument in this card. (Which could be interpreted as a strike against it)
In theory, if you had an enormous amount of mana, you could pump its toughness past the point where it has no power, and then pump its power until it has a toughness of one. Or am I missing something?
That doesn't work. The game keeps track of negative power/toughness values for cases like this. It just won't take the negative values into account for damage calculations.
You could theoretically pump it to a -100/100 or what have you. But even though the game will treat it as a 0/100 for most purposes, if you want to pump its power again, you have to give it at least +101/+0 for you to see any actual effect.
Parasitic Strix seems pretty hot, at least for Limited play (especially with say, Esperzoa).
Suicidal Charge should maybe be uncommon, but really how many are you going to want in your deck anyways? It costs 5, and a lot of the time its going to be an (admittedly one-sided) Nausea which isn't really all that much to write home about, particularly as your opponent will have an opportunity to Naturalize (et al) it before you can force their attack.
As for Thornling, I have the feeling it could have "G: Win the game." and people would complain it costs too much. Morphling is so above the curve that making comparisons to it is like saying Peek is worse than Ancestral Recall. Also- Doran is still around for almost another year, and a creature that reads '1: This gets +1/+1 until end of turn.' seems ok.
That doesn't work. The game keeps track of negative power/toughness values for cases like this. It just won't take the negative values into account for damage calculations.
You could theoretically pump it to a -100/100 or what have you. But even though the game will treat it as a 0/100 for most purposes, if you want to pump its power again, you have to give it at least +101/+0 for you to see any actual effect.
Really? I guess you learn something new everyday.
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Also, indestructible is just plain worse than shroud would be. Very dissapointing if true.
Haste actually is secondary to green now, but so is vigilance, and you are correct that it would make more sense. Vigilance would allow it to play offense and defense, which was one of the defining characteristics of Morphling and Torchling.
I'm not sure cards in a set with Uktabi Drake establish a precedent.
- It's mythic. WHY? What's the POINT of making it mythic?
- Indestructability? WTF Wizards? Don't you realize that Oblivion Ring, Unmake, and the soon Path to Exile are going to be in standard laughing at the indestructability?
Wizards could have really made Thornling so much better... Conflux is just not looking to be good at all.
Well, in Planar Chaos, haste was green. That's why the red Akroma didn't have haste. (or first strike since that was black) Of course, haste is a secondary ability of green's pie now, and green isn't about control. Haste is perfectly fine to have its Morphling aggro your face off. Trample and indestructible are also rather good for aggro. Now, we have the control version, the thug that goes around beating on all those innocent creatures, and the aggro version. When we get white Morphling, you can see untap again, probably accompanied by first strike, and protection from the color of your choice.
In theory, I'd suppose that it's meant to be iconic.
I agree with you, though. It's saddening, because half of this card's abilities are no good in this environment.
Im sure infest and mutilate would like to talk to you?
Reading on is savage tech. I take that back.
Anyway, I believe that this spoiler is not too true.. A mythic Thornling? this dude didn't even know the creature type...
My Sales Post!
I also definately agree 100% that haste was completely pointless. This is not Planar Chaos. Seems like very poor and lazy development of the card on WotC's part.
I disagree with people who say Indestructible is worse than Shroud. Indestructibility stops a lot more and makes it a lot better in combat. Indestructibility opens its uses to more decks(control, ramp, mid-range aggro).
I like it a lot.
The +1/-1 and -1/+1 abilities already make it ridiculous in combat. Indestructibility is pointless there.
Shroud is better at protecting a creature because Oblivion Ring, Unmake, and Condemn all see good amount of play in Type 2.
Oh yeah, Path to Exile is in the same set.
I'd like it in any of those kinds of decks if Path to Exile wasn't going to be released in the same set as this guy, and if Boggart Ram-Gang and Puncture Blast didn't see play in my area.
this is a a 4/4 that can become a 0/8 wall. 0/8's take alot to kill in combat, so destroying them via combat is going to be hard. targetted removal is stopped by shroud/super shroud, which means they will need to expend their mass removal to kill it. i would rather my opponent 1 for 1 wrath my thornling than Oring/PtE him.
But if you don't have infinite mana and have, say, just the 5 you summoned it with the turn after having a 7/1 indestructible trampler seems better than ok.
Even if the ability was something completely horrible that actually changed the way the creature functioned anytime I activated it, I'd like it better than haste. I just don't like how that ability is only relevant once (barring some sort of narrow spell that only affects creatures with haste or something).
The toughness pumping ability doesn't even come close to indestructibility for the sole fact that it would take a ton more mana to pump it.
you dont need infinite mana, you attack with a 4/4 if they block you shuffle things around, if they dont you make it a 7/1. i dont see how indestructible is relevant when its unblocked.
as for infinite mana, once you cast this guy i dont think you really need to play more spells. cause he says deal with me before i kill you
you would need two infests and mutilate isnt in type two i dont think, and nobody would play this in another format.
i dont think he thought indestructibaility meant he couldnt die. i think what he meant was most removal isnt -x/-4, and he will a lot of the time have 4 toughness when hes being hit with removal
In theory, if you had an enormous amount of mana, you could pump its toughness past the point where it has no power, and then pump its power until it has a toughness of one. Or am I missing something?
Actually I believe Haste is tertiary in green, not secondary. MaRo originally considered green for secondary status but in the end felt that black needed the extra keyword more.
So for those skimming:
Haste is:
Primary is Red
Secondary in Black
Tertiary in Green
Here is MaRo's explanation of tertiary status (bolded for emphasis):
All explained here in MaRo's article on establishing guidelines for "evergreen" mechanics:
http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtgcom/daily/mr284
So for all of you screaming that haste isn't green, you are in fact correct. It's not part of that colour, but since it has tertiary status they can use it on rare occasions. Although I admit, I'm not seeing much in terms of the "strong flavour" argument in this card. (Which could be interpreted as a strike against it)
That doesn't work. The game keeps track of negative power/toughness values for cases like this. It just won't take the negative values into account for damage calculations.
You could theoretically pump it to a -100/100 or what have you. But even though the game will treat it as a 0/100 for most purposes, if you want to pump its power again, you have to give it at least +101/+0 for you to see any actual effect.
Complaint box: Why was the mtg as an mmo(rpg) thread closed? I was having fun talking about it, hrmph-
Suicidal Charge should maybe be uncommon, but really how many are you going to want in your deck anyways? It costs 5, and a lot of the time its going to be an (admittedly one-sided) Nausea which isn't really all that much to write home about, particularly as your opponent will have an opportunity to Naturalize (et al) it before you can force their attack.
As for Thornling, I have the feeling it could have "G: Win the game." and people would complain it costs too much. Morphling is so above the curve that making comparisons to it is like saying Peek is worse than Ancestral Recall. Also- Doran is still around for almost another year, and a creature that reads '1: This gets +1/+1 until end of turn.' seems ok.
Really? I guess you learn something new everyday.