The Ooze is awesome. Creakwood Liege may be a nice friend to it, and frankly even if the deck is just RB or RG, it will grow as long as you land permanents of either black or green, and if you can land GB perms, it's just that much better. It's the kind of creature you can drop, forget about, and your opponent may also forget about it, until it comes swinging in at his head with some assistance (Hammer or similar effect).
5-Color Aggro, if it becomes a good type, will love him no doubt. I don't think it will be a $30 rare, but it may very well be a decent FoD-grade rare, or close to it. Unlike FoD it doesn't require any mana investment, you just keep doing your thing. Of course it has no inherent abilities like First Strike or what not on its own, so it will need help.
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Decks
Commander
Ezuri, Renegade Leader (Aggro/Combo - Favorite) Skullbriar, the Walking Grave (Sac and Grave hijinks) Azusa, Lost but Seeking (Landfall hijinks) Kaalia of the Vast (Heavily modded)
On the up side, his ability only has to halfway trigger once and he's tied for the biggest of the bunch (assuming you continue to make the payments on Figure of Destiny). Even adding one +1/+1 counter/turn is pretty good. As a 1/1 with an ability, he's on the curve for red already.
Like any one drop, he eats removal. Also like any one drop, he hardly ever "trades down".
I would like to see him in a monored aggro build that uses the most efficient hybrid creatures (Tattermunge Maniac, Boggar Ram-Gang, Ashenmoor Gouger, and Demigod).
It's hard to imagine someone won't do something with the Ooze - too much potential for too little cost to be ignored.
After all Nactl is remarkably efficient, and with 1-2 appropriate permanents in play this is equivalent to a best case Nactl on it's first upkeep, only better from there on out.
Obviously that allows a window of opportunity to kill it easily and it takes a little longer to get up to speed, but it seems worth it from my point of view. (Although admittedly I never play the appropriate colors, just not my style)
Question about ooze is how to make it a finisher like tarmogoyf...
It's a good card... but the primary difference between it and tarmogoyf, is that with tarmogoyf, your creature can be huge when it first appears. Ooze has to expose itself to the public and live for 2 upkeeps before it's bigger than 3/3. You can't "preset" the table to bring in a big ooze.
That being said, it might end up being good in some actually straight up aggressive deck. In any deck that's red-green-black, it will get big very fast.
Problem is that even if you drop it turn 1... it can't be 3/3 until turn 3, then 5/5 on turn 4... if you manage to drop a 3/3 GB elf on turn 2.
More likely we're talking 1/1 until turn 3, when it becomes a 2/2, then a 3/3 or 4/4 on turn 4...
That's all nice for 1 mana but not 'combolicious', and it's only good if you're not forced to 'build a deck' around it.
It's hard to imagine someone won't do something with the Ooze - too much potential for too little cost to be ignored.
After all Nactl is remarkably efficient, and with 1-2 appropriate permanents in play this is equivalent to a best case Nactl on it's first upkeep, only better from there on out.
Yeah, but it's "harder" to use the Ooze's trigger than to have the lands for WN. Nacctl has the possibility of being a 3/3 when it hits as well, esp with RAV/Core dual lands. The Ooze has to wait for your next turn, longer if you don't have the creatures to give it counters. Also, there is nothing stopping someone from shooting down the other creatures that would trigger it, leaving him a sad little drip. Even Manaplasm gets pumped when you counter something that they use to target him.
Can people who think the ooze goes in ramp please explain why?
And what cards they would take out, keeping in mind that current builds are making room for Banefire, Volcanic Fallout and Thornling?
A one drop has no place in ramp.
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Can people who think the ooze goes in ramp please explain why?
And what cards they would take out, keeping in mind that current builds are making room for Banefire, Volcanic Fallout and Thornling?
A one drop has no place in ramp.
This. People don't know Ramp at all, and they also can't notice a bad card when they see one.
Bloodhall Ooze is worse than Wild Nacatl, period. Heck, this card would be worse than Nacatl:
Bloodhall Barbarian
R
Creature - Human Warrior
Bloodhall Barbarian gets +1/+1 as long as you control a Green permanent.
Bloodhall Barbarian gets +1/+1 as long as you control a Black permanent.
1/1
And this card would be infinitely better than Bloodhall Ooze. At least it can attack turn 2 as a 2/2 after any green or black permanent (Tidehollow Sculler, Goyf, etc. This would be very playable in the Extended Zoo deck). But it would still be weaker than Nacatl. Bloodhall Ooze is just a really lame joke.
This guy's horrible in ramp. And ramp doesn't play Birds...
Solid in Mono Red or Blightning though; going 1 drop, then 1 drop 1 drop seems solid. He grows off Gouger, Ram-Gang, Blossom Tokens, Demigods, and Vexing Shushers.
This. People don't know Ramp at all, and they also can't notice a bad card when they see one.
Bloodhall Ooze is worse than Wild Nacatl, period. Heck, this card would be worse than Nacatl:
Bloodhall Barbarian
R
Creature - Human Warrior
Bloodhall Barbarian gets +1/+1 as long as you control a Green permanent.
Bloodhall Barbarian gets +1/+1 as long as you control a Black permanent.
1/1
And this card would be infinitely better than Bloodhall Ooze. At least it can attack turn 2 as a 2/2 after any green or black permanent (Tidehollow Sculler, Goyf, etc. This would be very playable in the Extended Zoo deck). But it would still be weaker than Nacatl. Bloodhall Ooze is just a really lame joke.
wow, umm Necrogenesis, Bloodhall Ooze and mass burn/redirect spells? how the hell could you go wrong w/ that? i see turn 1 fanatics hit for 3-4 turns before ever running into a wall (which would be anything w/ higher than two def to a mogg fanatic.) Get real, a R mana card w/ this much potential is going to see some ridiculous and chaotic play. Hence the red. Jund Burn might make a heavy debut in Standard. Hellspark and Razerunners coercing the phenomena to occur.
And if you don't like it, mail it by my way. Pm me For the address. No jokes.
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~Intelligence is Bliss; Ignorance is Denial.
Skill is an ability that relates more so to the type of deck that's built and how said player pilots it. It also relates to the ability to assess the board and use the cards available to you in the most optimal way relative to each situation.
When a deck is filled with above par cards and every play is solid, there comes a diminishing need to "think" for the lack of wanting to use a better word.
At the very least, ooze becomes a target, and eats removal from people who think he's a big threat. Timmys will use him for his ability, but only great players realize he can actually be useful, especially for decks with few one drops that play these colors.
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Currently running:
Standard GWUBant EnchantmentsUWG BR Dos Rakis RB UW Mill WU
The Ooze is a fun Johnny card. It may have constructed use, but it's far from broken. In contrast to either Tarmogoyf or Natcatl, it's always a 1/1 for a full turn after you play it. Growing it any bigger than that requires colored permanents (most likely creatures) on the board, which are much more easily removed than than lands in play (for Natcatl) or cards in the graveyard (for Tarmogoyf.)
Once people realize this is not a Spike card, its price will drop to $3 or so and Johnnies can have fun with it.
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ooze is insane imo, sure it gets killed easily but it's also 1 mana so unless they have a 1 mana answer (and not everyone will be running shock effects and if its being metagamed in other colors it's already being played alot which means it was good enough for hate) you get a great tempo advantage even them paying 2 mana is twice as much as you paid to drop it. This goes really well with that 1/1 saproling that comes back once if he dies. savannah lions is vulnerable too yet I hear he's seen play since the begining of time.
This guy makes me want to see colored lands printed, something better than cipt taps for 1 of that color is also that color land. maybe taps for a colorless when it comes into play choose a color the land counts as that color pay 1 change the color of the land. anyhow great card
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Infractions so far = 2
Complaint box: Why was the mtg as an mmo(rpg) thread closed? I was having fun talking about it, hrmph-
I would like to see him in a monored aggro build that uses the most efficient hybrid creatures (Tattermunge Maniac, Boggart Ram-Gang, Ashenmoor Gouger, and Demigod).
I posted this earlier, and then realized that current builds of RDW pretty much run all the cards I mentioned. Since the 1-drops RDW has to cut for the Ooze are Mogg Fanatic and Figure of Destiny... I doubt things will work out for the Ooze.
Maybe an alternate build that subs Tattermunge and Ooze for Maniac and Figure could work... but it looks pretty grim.
I posted this earlier, and then realized that current builds of RDW pretty much run all the cards I mentioned. Since the 1-drops RDW has to cut for the Ooze are Mogg Fanatic and Figure of Destiny... I doubt things will work out for the Ooze.
Maybe an alternate build that subs Tattermunge and Ooze for Maniac and Figure could work... but it looks pretty grim.
Umm, i highly doubt that the Ooze will find a home in such a narrow minded deck as RDW neway. Note, i honestly think a blue-hearted player made that deck.
Why are we, trying to stick it into already made decks? this cards is good enough for it's own style of play. i cant wait to see the rest of the Jund flavored spells to come.
RG For life!
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~Intelligence is Bliss; Ignorance is Denial.
Skill is an ability that relates more so to the type of deck that's built and how said player pilots it. It also relates to the ability to assess the board and use the cards available to you in the most optimal way relative to each situation.
When a deck is filled with above par cards and every play is solid, there comes a diminishing need to "think" for the lack of wanting to use a better word.
How are people forgetting that when you drop him turn one, he won't get counters on him till turn 3?
Turn one: Ooze
Turn two: upkeep goes by with no counters, play a trigger perm, swing for 1
Turn three: upkeep triggers 1-2 tokens he swings for 3?
Hardly the kind of clock one would want in T2, esp when you're tapping out to be sure Ooze will have a trigger next turn... Sure he's neat, but I think he's no better than Manaplasm (but even he can pump at instant speed).
wow, umm Necrogenesis, Bloodhall Ooze and mass burn/redirect spells? how the hell could you go wrong w/ that? i see turn 1 fanatics hit for 3-4 turns before ever running into a wall (which would be anything w/ higher than two def to a mogg fanatic.) Get real, a R mana card w/ this much potential is going to see some ridiculous and chaotic play. Hence the red. Jund Burn might make a heavy debut in Standard. Hellspark and Razerunners coercing the phenomena to occur.
And if you don't like it, mail it by my way. Pm me For the address. No jokes.
Land Bloodhall Ooze
Land Necrogenesis
Congrats, turn 3 you have a 3/3 vanilla, that was in play earlier in 1/1 form, ready to die to Mogg Fanatic/Peppersmoke/etc. There's about a million ways to have a 3/3 (or better) creature in play sooner than that. Elf/Bird into War Monk/Thrinax/Thoctar/Doran. Or Forest Nacatl, Plains/Mountain Rampant Growth for the other basic. Or just Forest Nacatl, then Plains/Mountain and swing with a 2/2 that puts Ooze in shame. And this is just in Standard.
If your opponent lets your Bloodhall Ooze grow into a 5/5 or something like that, he's either planning to Sower it, or he just can't deal with it. A turn two/three Doran would've been just as good, except better, because he's 5/5 all the time, not only ''after living for at least two turns alongside a black/green permanent''. It takes a ridiculous ammount of time and effort to make it a 3/3 or 4/4, and it still dies to common burn spells. Other creatures are at least faster, and are able to swing/block 1-2 times at full power before they die to removal (this to the people who will counterargue with ''but all creatures die to removal!")
Please PM me your address.
@the_fish: A one drop that is only a 2/2 or 3/3 in turn 3 is not a solid play. It's an awful play. Bloodhall Ooze is a one-drop that you don't want to play turn one. That's not bad design, that's awful design. You'd rather play the B/G permanent turn 1, but that's Odious Trow, which is indeed odious. There's no way out of the suckiness. If you play it turn 1 it's just a 1/1 turn two. If you play it turn 2 then it's maybe a 2/2 or 3/3 on turn 3... which thousands of creatures already are/were (Watchwolf, Nacatl, Vanquisher, Isamaru, Kird Ape, etc), except it's worse than all of those because you had to have a B/G permanent in play and you need time for the Ooze to grow. If he checked for counters at the end of your turn rather than your upkeep it would be a lot better yet it would still be unplayable. As it is, it's just utter junk. I'm sorry.
How are people forgetting that when you drop him turn one, he won't get counters on him till turn 3?
Turn one: Ooze
Turn two: upkeep goes by with no counters, play a trigger perm, swing for 1
Turn three: upkeep triggers 1-2 tokens he swings for 3?
Hardly the kind of clock one would want in T2, esp when you're tapping out to be sure Ooze will have a trigger next turn... Sure he's neat, but I think he's no better than Manaplasm (but even he can pump at instant speed).
Exactly. It's an interesting card, might see some standard play, but it's too slow for extended or legacy and it has no chance in hell of replacing Goyf. It's just too slow, and since it starts as a 1/1 it can be easily killed.
5-Color Aggro, if it becomes a good type, will love him no doubt. I don't think it will be a $30 rare, but it may very well be a decent FoD-grade rare, or close to it. Unlike FoD it doesn't require any mana investment, you just keep doing your thing. Of course it has no inherent abilities like First Strike or what not on its own, so it will need help.
Commander
Ezuri, Renegade Leader (Aggro/Combo - Favorite)
Skullbriar, the Walking Grave (Sac and Grave hijinks)
Azusa, Lost but Seeking (Landfall hijinks)
Kaalia of the Vast (Heavily modded)
Standard
Waiting for Innistrad...
Extended
Hah!
Modern
Living End Cascade (RGB)
Legacy
Burn
Vintage
None
Casual
WB Aggro-Control
Green Stompy
Pink Floyd (UWr Wall Control)
Lunch Box (Fatty ramp)
D-Bag (White Control)
Level 13 Task Mage
There are 10 oozes. 3 in G, 3 in R, 3 in B. Kraj is UG. From a flavor standpoint, I'd say this card is dead on.
I am not a fan of overly rigid color pie concepts anyway, but this objection seems really off IMO.
Although the best creature to compare this to IS a green creature.
That said, it'll find a home in some deck, probably none of the current competitive decks though.
On the up side, his ability only has to halfway trigger once and he's tied for the biggest of the bunch (assuming you continue to make the payments on Figure of Destiny). Even adding one +1/+1 counter/turn is pretty good. As a 1/1 with an ability, he's on the curve for red already.
Like any one drop, he eats removal. Also like any one drop, he hardly ever "trades down".
I would like to see him in a monored aggro build that uses the most efficient hybrid creatures (Tattermunge Maniac, Boggar Ram-Gang, Ashenmoor Gouger, and Demigod).
Replies:
"Mythic rarity doesn't make another 'Goyf priced card inevitable any more than printing more cards makes another 'Goyf inevitable." -UrzasSedatives
"Seriously, $80 cards? There's no conceivable way. If even one mythic card hit that price point, everyone and their mother would start buying boxes of Alara to "flip" him." -Charlequin
Being listened to would've beat saying I TOLD YOU SO 3 years later.
J
After all Nactl is remarkably efficient, and with 1-2 appropriate permanents in play this is equivalent to a best case Nactl on it's first upkeep, only better from there on out.
Obviously that allows a window of opportunity to kill it easily and it takes a little longer to get up to speed, but it seems worth it from my point of view. (Although admittedly I never play the appropriate colors, just not my style)
Re: People misusing the term Vanilla to describe a flying, unleash (sometimes trample) critter.
It's a good card... but the primary difference between it and tarmogoyf, is that with tarmogoyf, your creature can be huge when it first appears. Ooze has to expose itself to the public and live for 2 upkeeps before it's bigger than 3/3. You can't "preset" the table to bring in a big ooze.
That being said, it might end up being good in some actually straight up aggressive deck. In any deck that's red-green-black, it will get big very fast.
Problem is that even if you drop it turn 1... it can't be 3/3 until turn 3, then 5/5 on turn 4... if you manage to drop a 3/3 GB elf on turn 2.
More likely we're talking 1/1 until turn 3, when it becomes a 2/2, then a 3/3 or 4/4 on turn 4...
That's all nice for 1 mana but not 'combolicious', and it's only good if you're not forced to 'build a deck' around it.
Yeah, but it's "harder" to use the Ooze's trigger than to have the lands for WN. Nacctl has the possibility of being a 3/3 when it hits as well, esp with RAV/Core dual lands. The Ooze has to wait for your next turn, longer if you don't have the creatures to give it counters. Also, there is nothing stopping someone from shooting down the other creatures that would trigger it, leaving him a sad little drip. Even Manaplasm gets pumped when you counter something that they use to target him.
My H/W list
And what cards they would take out, keeping in mind that current builds are making room for Banefire, Volcanic Fallout and Thornling?
A one drop has no place in ramp.
Twitter
Standard
GWUBant EnchantmentsUWG
BR Dos Rakis RB
UW Mill WU
Legacy
RGoblinsR
This. People don't know Ramp at all, and they also can't notice a bad card when they see one.
Bloodhall Ooze is worse than Wild Nacatl, period. Heck, this card would be worse than Nacatl:
Bloodhall Barbarian
R
Creature - Human Warrior
Bloodhall Barbarian gets +1/+1 as long as you control a Green permanent.
Bloodhall Barbarian gets +1/+1 as long as you control a Black permanent.
1/1
And this card would be infinitely better than Bloodhall Ooze. At least it can attack turn 2 as a 2/2 after any green or black permanent (Tidehollow Sculler, Goyf, etc. This would be very playable in the Extended Zoo deck). But it would still be weaker than Nacatl. Bloodhall Ooze is just a really lame joke.
Solid in Mono Red or Blightning though; going 1 drop, then 1 drop 1 drop seems solid. He grows off Gouger, Ram-Gang, Blossom Tokens, Demigods, and Vexing Shushers.
wow, umm Necrogenesis, Bloodhall Ooze and mass burn/redirect spells? how the hell could you go wrong w/ that? i see turn 1 fanatics hit for 3-4 turns before ever running into a wall (which would be anything w/ higher than two def to a mogg fanatic.) Get real, a R mana card w/ this much potential is going to see some ridiculous and chaotic play. Hence the red. Jund Burn might make a heavy debut in Standard. Hellspark and Razerunners coercing the phenomena to occur.
And if you don't like it, mail it by my way. Pm me For the address. No jokes.
Skill is an ability that relates more so to the type of deck that's built and how said player pilots it. It also relates to the ability to assess the board and use the cards available to you in the most optimal way relative to each situation.
When a deck is filled with above par cards and every play is solid, there comes a diminishing need to "think" for the lack of wanting to use a better word.
Standard
GWUBant EnchantmentsUWG
BR Dos Rakis RB
UW Mill WU
Legacy
RGoblinsR
Once people realize this is not a Spike card, its price will drop to $3 or so and Johnnies can have fun with it.
This guy makes me want to see colored lands printed, something better than cipt taps for 1 of that color is also that color land. maybe taps for a colorless when it comes into play choose a color the land counts as that color pay 1 change the color of the land. anyhow great card
Complaint box: Why was the mtg as an mmo(rpg) thread closed? I was having fun talking about it, hrmph-
I posted this earlier, and then realized that current builds of RDW pretty much run all the cards I mentioned. Since the 1-drops RDW has to cut for the Ooze are Mogg Fanatic and Figure of Destiny... I doubt things will work out for the Ooze.
Maybe an alternate build that subs Tattermunge and Ooze for Maniac and Figure could work... but it looks pretty grim.
Replies:
"Mythic rarity doesn't make another 'Goyf priced card inevitable any more than printing more cards makes another 'Goyf inevitable." -UrzasSedatives
"Seriously, $80 cards? There's no conceivable way. If even one mythic card hit that price point, everyone and their mother would start buying boxes of Alara to "flip" him." -Charlequin
Being listened to would've beat saying I TOLD YOU SO 3 years later.
Umm, i highly doubt that the Ooze will find a home in such a narrow minded deck as RDW neway. Note, i honestly think a blue-hearted player made that deck.
Why are we, trying to stick it into already made decks? this cards is good enough for it's own style of play. i cant wait to see the rest of the Jund flavored spells to come.
RG For life!
Skill is an ability that relates more so to the type of deck that's built and how said player pilots it. It also relates to the ability to assess the board and use the cards available to you in the most optimal way relative to each situation.
When a deck is filled with above par cards and every play is solid, there comes a diminishing need to "think" for the lack of wanting to use a better word.
Turn one: Ooze
Turn two: upkeep goes by with no counters, play a trigger perm, swing for 1
Turn three: upkeep triggers 1-2 tokens he swings for 3?
Hardly the kind of clock one would want in T2, esp when you're tapping out to be sure Ooze will have a trigger next turn... Sure he's neat, but I think he's no better than Manaplasm (but even he can pump at instant speed).
Land Bloodhall Ooze
Land Necrogenesis
Congrats, turn 3 you have a 3/3 vanilla, that was in play earlier in 1/1 form, ready to die to Mogg Fanatic/Peppersmoke/etc. There's about a million ways to have a 3/3 (or better) creature in play sooner than that. Elf/Bird into War Monk/Thrinax/Thoctar/Doran. Or Forest Nacatl, Plains/Mountain Rampant Growth for the other basic. Or just Forest Nacatl, then Plains/Mountain and swing with a 2/2 that puts Ooze in shame. And this is just in Standard.
If your opponent lets your Bloodhall Ooze grow into a 5/5 or something like that, he's either planning to Sower it, or he just can't deal with it. A turn two/three Doran would've been just as good, except better, because he's 5/5 all the time, not only ''after living for at least two turns alongside a black/green permanent''. It takes a ridiculous ammount of time and effort to make it a 3/3 or 4/4, and it still dies to common burn spells. Other creatures are at least faster, and are able to swing/block 1-2 times at full power before they die to removal (this to the people who will counterargue with ''but all creatures die to removal!")
Please PM me your address.
@the_fish: A one drop that is only a 2/2 or 3/3 in turn 3 is not a solid play. It's an awful play. Bloodhall Ooze is a one-drop that you don't want to play turn one. That's not bad design, that's awful design. You'd rather play the B/G permanent turn 1, but that's Odious Trow, which is indeed odious. There's no way out of the suckiness. If you play it turn 1 it's just a 1/1 turn two. If you play it turn 2 then it's maybe a 2/2 or 3/3 on turn 3... which thousands of creatures already are/were (Watchwolf, Nacatl, Vanquisher, Isamaru, Kird Ape, etc), except it's worse than all of those because you had to have a B/G permanent in play and you need time for the Ooze to grow. If he checked for counters at the end of your turn rather than your upkeep it would be a lot better yet it would still be unplayable. As it is, it's just utter junk. I'm sorry.
and then everyone will jizz their pants.
but it'll cost...10BUWRGBUWRG mana to play
I like Turtles
Exactly. It's an interesting card, might see some standard play, but it's too slow for extended or legacy and it has no chance in hell of replacing Goyf. It's just too slow, and since it starts as a 1/1 it can be easily killed.
still seems like grabbing 2 figures is a little better though, not to mention they are not terrible when you draw them.