Also, you have to consider how epic Bolas really is. By having one part sticking out, you declare that part more epic than the rest of him, which isn't really right.
LMAO.
That's a great point. Well said sir.
The Ooze seems kind of mediocre....For all the people talking about putting this in Jund Ramp, consider the fact that the deck isn't invested in the board. It casts Jund Charms and Firespouts and Rampant Growths to stay alive, then plays a Broodmate Dragon. At which point this really seems unnecessary.
Now look at an aggro deck which this would fit best in. There aren't really many good black/green creatures you could play (I'm just begging to have someone make me a jackass here but I can't think of anything), so you would need to have a black creature and a green creature. At that point you're just begging to get Wrathed.
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To be stupid, and selfish, and to have good health are the three requirements for happiness; though if stupidity is lacking, the others are useless."
-Gustave Flaubert
I would really like to see a Nicol Bolas in Alara Reborn. im not farmiliar with the storyline so if he doesnt develop more powerful or find he can return to his might with the spark, then whatever, but to see an ultimate bolas costed at something along the lines of WUBBBBRG still 8 mana but with the mana of all alara at his disposal. not exactly sure how he could make a game possible at that mana since hed have to be so much stronger than this, but give him shroud, and maybe a comes into play effect (akromas vengeance) we could have potential.
Potential for what, being a great example of poor design? They really don't need to make a second Bolas card so soon, especially just to one-up this one. Our current Bolas is plenty powerful without tipping the scales too far into ridiculous. Creating a second card in the next set that's bigger and crazier and more expensive is just horrible idea. To make a card that difficult to cast, you have to make the effect worth it, which is compounded by the goal to outdo this card. What you're left with is a mistake any way you slice it.
If you activate Treetop Village during your upkeep, your Ooze will get counters without need of any other permanents. Just sayin'.
Wrong. Thanks to our good friend, the 'intervening if' clause, the trigger will not go on the stack if you don't control a green or black permanent at the beginning of your upkeep.
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Quote from pokerbob1 »
maybe everyone should sig the following:
If you think you found a way to play evermind, you are wrong.
If you activate Treetop Village during your upkeep, your Ooze will get counters without need of any other permanents. Just sayin'.
The card doesn't seem that good but it's still one freaking mana for something that can get really big. Figure is 5 mana for a 4/4, and 11 mana for an 8/8. This has no costs attached.
Except treetop village is a permanent, and animating it early is bad medicine most of the time. Also that would slow you way the hell down.
I'm going to bite the bullet and state my opinion on the ooze, however horrendously wrong I may turn out to be. The ooze is card which has to be viewed in context, in my mind that context is with the card it was previewed under, Wild Nacatl. Wild Nacatly is a good card, not goyf quality beats but a strong card. It's good because the cards it needs are relatively easy to get in extended and you'd want them to be in play anyway. However what are you going to play to make the ooze really strong? A Necrogenesis? I believe that it won't be a really strong card unless a supporting beater is printed in the unspoiled portion of Con or Ala Reborn.
(although doran could be fun with this ;))
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Saemar is not a wizard, is not fighting on a battlefield and is not casting spells.
I didn't notice anyone mentioning this elsewhere in the thread, but anyone think there may be a possible cycle of one mana rare cards, all of which have flavor for each color of their shard, for the set? We've now got Noble Hierarch in green, who taps for three colors, and the ooze in red, which benefits from the other jund colors.
However, at the same time I just realized that Noble Hierarch is green but taps for Bant, not Naya, colors, which definitely would be evidence against this being a cycle.
A bit sad to see THE Nicol Bolas fit the card frame contrary to the other planeswalkers...
What exactly does that mean? Half the thread is complaining about it, and I just don't get it.
EDIT: Narrowing parameters. What makes that complaint worthy? If they had shown just the upper half of his body you'd see his big damn head and some of his scraggly neck, and everyone would be complaining about that. Like, honestly, what does everybody want from it?
If you activate Treetop Village during your upkeep, your Ooze will get counters without need of any other permanents. Just sayin'.
Bzzt! The permanent has to be there at the beginning of your upkeep to trigger. You DO get priority on your upkeep, but activating Treetop on your upkeep won't yield a counter, since there was no green permanent when the ooze would trigger.
I can't see this card being played on a wide scale. If it gets there, it will only be in ONE archetype, unlike Goyf, which goes in any deck with green, and sometimes is the only reason green is in the deck. Take Wild Nacatl; good, yes? But only in WGR Zoo, kids. If this card ever sees play, it'll be only in an GRB Aggro deck. That's it.
Why do I not think it'll make it? It's a dog to so many cards. It eats Wrath and Firespout the turn before it would become a threat, Terror and Incinerate are both quick options to deal with it, and any sort of Bounce sends your Ooze back three turns. Aggro generally plays "right now" creatures: Kird Ape, Wild Nacatyl, Tarmogoyf, Mogg Fanatic. I don't think it can afford to play such a slow "set up" creature.
Again, the Ooze is best used with Necrogenesis, so that you can make a saproling token with your dead ooze.
You can use one of the +1/+1 counters as a Saproling.
I think the ooze is being seriously overrated right now.
Why would I want this card when I can play figure of destiny, and not have to worry about having other permanents.
Not to mention ooze is a total dead draw lategame.
In aggro decks (where the ooze would go in) you already lost if you're in the late game (at least 95% of the times), so I don't think that the dead draw argument applies. Figure of Destiny is a completely different card and can't be played outside mono-R/W or RW decks and thus can't be compared to this card.
I may eat these words, but: There is a 13 year old right now going crazy about his Bloodhall Ooze deck much like the 13 year old who brags about his Manaplasm deck that I play every week.
Of course there is.
Some of them are even in this thread
But it's the classic thing of Magic design, really. If you don't like it, it's just not FOR you, it's for the other guy who is like "5/5 on turn 4, 7/7 on turn 5, 9/9 on turn 6 whoo!".
My take is that if there is a competitive Jund deck, this guy is the 1 drop because he is what you want from an aggro 1 drop: he is good enough to draw fire so that the opponent doesn't have as much fire to use on the bigger guys. Any 1 drop threatening enough to go 1 for 1 with a removal spell is a great 1 drop.
This guy is also not wasted (although obviously not as good) if you topdeck him on turn 5, since he can become relevant quickly.
The question is notwhether he is constructed playable, but rather whether there is a competitive deck in his colours, I suspect.
I don't really see how they could make Bolas' art go past the frame. He's too thin to overlap the left and right parts of the frame, and his wings would cover up his name/cost.
I don't get why people are bashing the Ooze so hard. Turn 1 Ooze, Turn 2 Bitterblossom turns the thing into the awesome Slith Firewalker that doesn't need to eat face. Good enough for me. Seems great for a Blightning-based deck with Nyxathid...
Shame about Bolas not going out of the frame but it really looks like it would be too tough to accomplish. I for one dig the Ooze art, its exactly my cup of tea. As for playability in constructed, this:
Quote from RafaelK »
he is good enough to draw fire so that the opponent doesn't have as much fire to use on the bigger guys. Any 1 drop threatening enough to go 1 for 1 with a removal spell is a great 1 drop.
I don't get why people are bashing the Ooze so hard. Turn 1 Ooze, Turn 2 Bitterblossom turns the thing into the awesome Slith Firewalker that doesn't need to eat face. Good enough for me. Seems great for a Blightning-based deck with Nyxathid...
Apparently combining this card with arguably the most powerful card in T2 doesn't seem good or something. I already showed my Bop+ooze+bitterblossom hand which gets things going real quick.
About drawing fire, you have to realize that whoever's trying to off the ooze will do so because his or her deck is sufficiently equipped to kill threats upon first sighting, and would most probably be designed to reload some ammo to kill the next big threat you lay down.
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Bloodhall Ooze is really great. A very nice flavored card.
@those complaining:
Of course it takes 2-3 turns to make it big enough to be devastating, of course you can use almost anything to kill it as it comes into play and of course a wrath will deal with it really quickly (and deal with a 10/10 progenitus as well).
But think about it. You use R for a threat that need to be taken care of in the next two turns making your opponent use one of his removal spells on it seems like a pretty fair trade in my opinion!
Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker looks wonderful, I hope I get it somehow (as long as I'm wishing for it, make it a foil!).. I don't really care if the art doesn't go past the frame, I still like it as is.
Bloodhall Ooze is really great. A very nice flavored card.
@those complaining:
Of course it takes 2-3 turns to make it big enough to be devastating, of course you can use almost anything to kill it as it comes into play and of course a wrath will deal with it really quickly (and deal with a 10/10 progenitus as well).
But think about it. You use R for a threat that need to be taken care of in the next two turns making your opponent use one of his removal spells on it seems like a pretty fair trade in my opinion!
not really complaining, but as i said, any player who's going to kill the ooze is doing so because he or she has to, and because that player is sufficiently equipped for the task. you could have put something more resilient/proactive/more powerful in that slot like figure of destiny which will also draw fire 2 out 3 times, but the times that it stays alive it does a whole lot more than a newly played ooze on turn 4 or later.
ooze looks good, i like its design; economical, potential to be scary big. it's my first glance opinion of it. but my second glance opinion tells me this will need some help to be actually helpful to you.
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LMAO.
That's a great point. Well said sir.
The Ooze seems kind of mediocre....For all the people talking about putting this in Jund Ramp, consider the fact that the deck isn't invested in the board. It casts Jund Charms and Firespouts and Rampant Growths to stay alive, then plays a Broodmate Dragon. At which point this really seems unnecessary.
Now look at an aggro deck which this would fit best in. There aren't really many good black/green creatures you could play (I'm just begging to have someone make me a jackass here but I can't think of anything), so you would need to have a black creature and a green creature. At that point you're just begging to get Wrathed.
To be stupid, and selfish, and to have good health are the three requirements for happiness; though if stupidity is lacking, the others are useless."
-Gustave Flaubert
Potential for what, being a great example of poor design? They really don't need to make a second Bolas card so soon, especially just to one-up this one. Our current Bolas is plenty powerful without tipping the scales too far into ridiculous. Creating a second card in the next set that's bigger and crazier and more expensive is just horrible idea. To make a card that difficult to cast, you have to make the effect worth it, which is compounded by the goal to outdo this card. What you're left with is a mistake any way you slice it.
Archatmos
Excellion
Fracture: Israfiel (WBR), Wujal (URG), Valedon (GUB), Amduat (BGW), Paladris (RWU)
Collision (Set Two of the Fracture Block)
Quest for the Forsaken (Set Two of the Excellion Block)
Katingal: Plane of Chains
Wrong. Thanks to our good friend, the 'intervening if' clause, the trigger will not go on the stack if you don't control a green or black permanent at the beginning of your upkeep.
Except treetop village is a permanent, and animating it early is bad medicine most of the time. Also that would slow you way the hell down.
Also it doesn't even work that way.
Also sarnath'd
Textless Nicol Bolas.
Do want.
They don't make textless permanents except for a handful of vanilla creatures in future sight.
(although doran could be fun with this ;))
However, at the same time I just realized that Noble Hierarch is green but taps for Bant, not Naya, colors, which definitely would be evidence against this being a cycle.
What exactly does that mean? Half the thread is complaining about it, and I just don't get it.
EDIT: Narrowing parameters. What makes that complaint worthy? If they had shown just the upper half of his body you'd see his big damn head and some of his scraggly neck, and everyone would be complaining about that. Like, honestly, what does everybody want from it?
Bzzt! The permanent has to be there at the beginning of your upkeep to trigger. You DO get priority on your upkeep, but activating Treetop on your upkeep won't yield a counter, since there was no green permanent when the ooze would trigger.
I can't see this card being played on a wide scale. If it gets there, it will only be in ONE archetype, unlike Goyf, which goes in any deck with green, and sometimes is the only reason green is in the deck. Take Wild Nacatl; good, yes? But only in WGR Zoo, kids. If this card ever sees play, it'll be only in an GRB Aggro deck. That's it.
Why do I not think it'll make it? It's a dog to so many cards. It eats Wrath and Firespout the turn before it would become a threat, Terror and Incinerate are both quick options to deal with it, and any sort of Bounce sends your Ooze back three turns. Aggro generally plays "right now" creatures: Kird Ape, Wild Nacatyl, Tarmogoyf, Mogg Fanatic. I don't think it can afford to play such a slow "set up" creature.
Again, the Ooze is best used with Necrogenesis, so that you can make a saproling token with your dead ooze.
You can use one of the +1/+1 counters as a Saproling.
Mad props to Spiderboy at HighLight for the sig!
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In aggro decks (where the ooze would go in) you already lost if you're in the late game (at least 95% of the times), so I don't think that the dead draw argument applies.
Figure of Destiny is a completely different card and can't be played outside mono-R/W or RW decks and thus can't be compared to this card.
Of course there is.
Some of them are even in this thread
But it's the classic thing of Magic design, really. If you don't like it, it's just not FOR you, it's for the other guy who is like "5/5 on turn 4, 7/7 on turn 5, 9/9 on turn 6 whoo!".
My take is that if there is a competitive Jund deck, this guy is the 1 drop because he is what you want from an aggro 1 drop: he is good enough to draw fire so that the opponent doesn't have as much fire to use on the bigger guys. Any 1 drop threatening enough to go 1 for 1 with a removal spell is a great 1 drop.
This guy is also not wasted (although obviously not as good) if you topdeck him on turn 5, since he can become relevant quickly.
The question is notwhether he is constructed playable, but rather whether there is a competitive deck in his colours, I suspect.
Tough Savannah Lions W
Creature-Cat (R)
Shroud
Indestructible
2/1
Now that is a good one mana creature it doesn't die to much and it will stick around for a long time.
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I also love the Elemental Token art.
Its a pile of ooze in a cave, how should it look
It's an ooze. I don't think there's much room for aesthetic flair. Then again, Mwonvuli Ooze looked quite delicious. In a Jell-o kind of way.
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Apparently combining this card with arguably the most powerful card in T2 doesn't seem good or something. I already showed my Bop+ooze+bitterblossom hand which gets things going real quick.
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@those complaining:
Of course it takes 2-3 turns to make it big enough to be devastating, of course you can use almost anything to kill it as it comes into play and of course a wrath will deal with it really quickly (and deal with a 10/10 progenitus as well).
But think about it. You use R for a threat that need to be taken care of in the next two turns making your opponent use one of his removal spells on it seems like a pretty fair trade in my opinion!
Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker looks wonderful, I hope I get it somehow (as long as I'm wishing for it, make it a foil!).. I don't really care if the art doesn't go past the frame, I still like it as is.
DCI Judge
not really complaining, but as i said, any player who's going to kill the ooze is doing so because he or she has to, and because that player is sufficiently equipped for the task. you could have put something more resilient/proactive/more powerful in that slot like figure of destiny which will also draw fire 2 out 3 times, but the times that it stays alive it does a whole lot more than a newly played ooze on turn 4 or later.
ooze looks good, i like its design; economical, potential to be scary big. it's my first glance opinion of it. but my second glance opinion tells me this will need some help to be actually helpful to you.
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