I think this cycle looks pretty good. Shards had pretty good Limited fixing, but this really opens it up. The blue one also reminds me of the card Chan submitted for the 2007 invitational:
So am I the only one who thinks these will probably see a ton of block and probably type 2 play (except the green one since green can already fix their mana just fine, and the white one isnt contructed oriented really either)
I do think green got hosed here, firstly green is the land color so it shouldn't have had to sacrifice much at all in card power, maybe the spells ability could have been something like instant 3 colorless and a green mana fetch a basic put it into play and draw a card. or for six mana should have been like a 6/6 instant spider token with reach.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Infractions so far = 2
Complaint box: Why was the mtg as an mmo(rpg) thread closed? I was having fun talking about it, hrmph-
i seriously doubt any of these see play beyond limited. They have interesting applications, but their mana costs are too high to warrant serious consideration.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
He fights you not because you've wronged him, but because you're there.
<+RicoSuave> andy doesn't like grass on his playing field
<+RicoSuave> the easiest answer is to flip em over and play in the mud
<BrassMan> OBV
<BrassMan> WAIT WHAT?
So am I the only one who thinks these will probably see a ton of block and probably type 2 play (except the green one since green can already fix their mana just fine, and the white one isnt contructed oriented really either)
I do think green got hosed here, firstly green is the land color so it shouldn't have had to sacrifice much at all in card power, maybe the spells ability could have been something like instant 3 colorless and a green mana fetch a basic put it into play and draw a card. or for six mana should have been like a 6/6 instant spider token with reach.
You're wrong. There are much better options in blocks. They may see SOME play, but "a ton of play", is far from ideal.
These however will be very good in limited. Early game mana fixing, late game benefits.
I can see the blue one making its way into the legacy environment. Instant-speed uncounterable mana support that's also pitchable to Force of Will, and can be used lategame as a solid counter to boot? Sign me up. A very versatile card.
In the context of this block, with the mechanic of Domain coming in, this cycle is 5 of the most relevant commons for limited in Conflux. These cards will play part in defining the format. Mana fixing, above all else, is the most important aspect of Shards block limited. There are plenty of powerful cards, but what's important is casting them. Outside of limited, yes they are basically garbage, except maybe the Blue one, which may see play in block. If you are just posting to complain that 5 commons are not playable in the format you play, then I can't really help you.
If the non cycling versions were really good, then they would get picked so fast, that you couldn't hope to draft the one you need to reliably fix your mana. This logic may be a little flawed, but at least it is a reason for some of these to be less than optimal. on turn 10 however, during a stalemate, I would be happy to draw any of them.
All of them are overcosted by or so... or would be, if it wasn't for that basic landcycling. However, in the early game you're always going to use them to fix your mana, and in the late game that extra doesn't hurt because you have mana to spare. Neither half is good enough to play on its own, but together they look like pretty solid cards. (Except the green one. The effect sucks and green has better ways to fix its mana.)
That, and this in my eyes is one of the worst designed sets so far, I mean, some of the cards are so random that it feel like am looking into an Ice Age spoiler or something.
You can't be serious. Don't ever compare modern sets to older ones, least of all Ice Age. That is... unless you'd like to compare Force of Will to Traumatic Visions for example...
Not a bad cycle. I like the White one the best for Limited.
The Blue one is functional enough that it might actually see constructed play.
Probably in block, seeing as then we really have nothing control-esque to do on turn 2 as it stands. Other than that...I don't think it's going to see play unless we somehow get a tempo deck that can really abuse both halves of the card (no Fae don't count...do you want a basic land in hand or BB in play on t2? >_>).
1. force, power
2. violence
* the Wikipedia page - Martin Luther on Catholic church reform
Nōn vī, sed verbō.
Not through violence, but the word.
It appears they are referencing Absorb Power but they wanted to use a more unique word for Power. Could be wrong on what vis represents but this is a good guess.
It appears they are referencing Absorb Power but they wanted to use a more unique word for Power. Could be wrong on what vis represents but this is a good guess.
"Vis" is the word used in Grixis for life. No green, no white = only one place to get life-based energy, and that's people.
If your playing black you run this card period. The mana fix+life loss is ridiculous this may not be Bomb rare good but its definitely high pick.
The other ones are less impressive the white one is probably second best and the blue one is 3rd best.
The green one is pretty weak although people might run it just to cycle.
All these cards will only show up in limited unless a true domain deck runs a copy or two to cycle away in 99% of circumstances.
So the red one is only the 4th, according to you? I would rate it above everything else, then black, white, blue, and green.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Original quote byTacosnape "All ideas that give me knowledge without any effort involved on my part are good ideas. Chop chop, my dear fellow."
DCI L2 Judge GP:Madrid 2010 45th GP:Amsterdam 2011 74th GP:London 2013 67th Bazaar of Moxen 2013 32nd
I like the idea ! Maybe a six mana counterspell just to give a joke to those people crying for Counterspell coming back.
I'm really happy to see that it's not as bas as Resounding Scream...
Waiting for the other cards in the cycle. (I beleive that a complete cycle is nearly sure to support domain spells)
Hahaha, we had it allmost right, it's a five mana counterspell.
The abilties of the spell actually al suck big time. But it's the cycling which make the card so powerfull. Defenitly in blue.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
hey i have managed to evolve my axolotls by feeding them thyroid glands the thyroxine contained in these gland is enough to change these water dwelling creatures into land based creatures
Posted by: Tay Collins | January 20, 2010 6:45 AM
Tay, that's not evolution. It's metamorphosis. Evolution means descent with heritable modification – individuals cannot evolve, unless they're Pokemon.
Posted by: David Marjanović | January 20, 2010 8:55 AM
It's funny how when they make a cycle of flyers, the green one sucks, but when they make a cycle of cards that search for lands, the green one sucks... worse than the blue one...
It would be broken as colorless mana, so this helps reign in the ability.
It would be broken to give any deck the ability to cast Lay of the Land for :2mana:, but it's okay to make it cost :symb:? Considering there's aparently common cycle, as you just revealed, that logic falls apart fast.
Vis is the life energy that the necromancers, demons and vampires of Grixis need to survive. It's found in the blood, mind, bodily fluids and such of living beings and is used as fuel for powerful magic. Some beings even need it to survive. Vis, being found only in the living, is becoming more sought after as the living on Grixis dwindle in number.
Cool, thanks for the info. I haven't followed storyline in years.
Gleam of Resistance 4W
Instant
Creatures you control get +1/+2 until end of turn. Untap those creatures.
Basic landcycling 1W
: You're paying more for the landcycling option.
: You're paying more for the landcycling option.
: You're paying more for the landcycling option which sucks in this colour.
: You're paying more for the landcycling option which is great in this colour and the card it's based on is constructed playable.
: You're paying more for the landcycling option.
My opinion is that they all suck in constructed. In limited: the green one is horribly overcosted and not even useful, while the white one is less overcosted than the rest, and the blue one is not only the cheapest but has the most potent effect. Typical cycle screwup, Hasbro!
:symr:: You're paying more for the landcycling option.
:symb:: You're paying more for the landcycling option.
:symg:: You're paying more for the landcycling option which sucks in this colour.
:symu:: You're paying more for the landcycling option which is great in this colour and the card it's based on is constructed playable.
:symw:: You're paying more for the landcycling option.
My opinion is that they all suck in constructed. In limited: the green one is horribly overcosted and not even useful, while the white one is less overcosted than the rest, and the blue one is not only the cheapest but has the most potent effect. Typical cycle screwup, Hasbro!
the truth is that the cards arent that different, the green one is also an instant, and still more efficient than stream of life, despite that it was never a good card, and the white one is 2 more than warriors honor, but 3 more than cards that are strictly better like surge of thoughtweft, so even though it provides that extra +0/+1 i think its a bit of a wash. so more or less all the cards are 2 more than they should for the use of the landcycling, the remind me of wayfarers twig and bauble, but the color investment allows for a lategame effect, and i think in sealed and even draft all of these are playable. the black one i actually find weaker than the green in limited, because while it cant deliver that final blow, often it will save you from a would be lethal strike that causes your opponant to tap themselves into a bad defensive position. Ive won quite a few games on the back of angelsong, when a player would swing out to get the win, a intstant lifegain/damage prevention, allows you to swing back un hindered.
also in limited i dont think a counter is as potent an effect as kill a 5 toughness creature, at least not at 5 mana, its much more difficult to keep 5 mana open for a counter than 3 for cancel, and at least cryptic command is awsome, and disperse nets you a card, and still doesnt need 5 mana open
It's funny how when they make a cycle of flyers, the green one sucks, but when they make a cycle of cards that search for lands, the green one sucks... worse than the blue one...
Actually, in Limited, the Green one is right in the middle. It kinda compares to Angelsong, not that you'd WANT to run either, but can be useful. There are subtle differences, though.
Angelsong will save you from a Naya alpha strike, while Bounty probably won't. Angelsong can also cycle into gas.
Bounty, however, can save you from getting Resounding Thundered or Soul's Fireed out, both of which happen a lot. It's a better tool for ensuring that you do indeed stabilize with your more powerful but slower deck. Bounty, also, obviously filters your mana, but that's especially important in a Green deck, because it vastly improves your chances of hitting with one of the unfair tri-color uncommon creatures on turn 3.
Of all of them, the Blue one should have been penalized the heaviest on cost, and actual effect, just for being a land tutor.
BLUE AIN'T FRIENDLY WITH LANDS!!!
ARGH! Endoka was completely right - they wonked the cycle again. Here I thought it'd be a harmless jank pile of land fixers that'll randomly make you smile for mana flood.
If the Blue one does end up making an impact and the other ones don't, I will be angry.
But even if that's not true, the part where the cycle broke (what with the Blue one not being staple effect times seven) just grinds my gears. Because you see it coming and you think it's going to be different this time and then it's not.
Will enjoy drafting Gleam of Resistance, though.
The blue one is fine the way it is. A lot of people don't notice, but blue has color fixed with lands for years. It doesn't tend to search for lands, but it has the power to turn any land into any basic land type you desire. Really, I'd say blue is #2 in mana fixing after green. In Planar Chaos, it even got the Harrow spellshaper.
As for the green one being weak, it seems like the lifegain of Primal Command has gotten its fair share of play even in constructed. It does gain a significant amount of life as well as doubling as a mana fixer. It's really not that bad. Pure lifegain isn't worth playing in most cases, but this one does something generally useful, while getting the lifegain into your deck in the event that you do actually need it. It's unlikely to see constructed play, but in limited, I have a feeling, people will value it more after they've played it a few times. Having an extra 8 life to play with can be a really nice cushion if your life total got pretty slim before you got board advantage. Afterall, you want your huge fattie to kick some ass, not sit back and block. Besides, like people have said, these cards are mana fixing with a bonus spell tacked on. I'm pretty sure that lifegain will steal at least one win for someone, about every other limited tournament or so.
In 30+ drafts of Shards (it's probably more, come to think of it) I can safely say I have never had to stoop to playing or boarding Angelsong and I'm 100% sure I've never been wrong to make that decision
For color fixing purposes they are all limited "playable" to some extent (remembering that there's a pack less of panoramas), but the white and red ones are the only ones I would be OK with topdecking after about turn 5. While obviously overcosted, the white one is a decent combat trick which doesn't really exist in the block otherwise. The red one obviously is damage which rarely 100% sucks. The blue one is borderline in limited. The green and black ones just have such terribly inconsequential effects for the investment... you would almost never want to topdeck one late, which seriously reduces the playability. Even something like an Akrasan Squire can break a stall, but Sylvan Bounty never will.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
The Blue one is functional enough that it might actually see constructed play.
Not the same by a long shot, but a similar idea of early/late game options.
I am hitting my head against the walls, but the walls are giving way. - Gustav Mahler
MOTL Refs:Here
eBay Refs: Here
I do think green got hosed here, firstly green is the land color so it shouldn't have had to sacrifice much at all in card power, maybe the spells ability could have been something like instant 3 colorless and a green mana fetch a basic put it into play and draw a card. or for six mana should have been like a 6/6 instant spider token with reach.
Complaint box: Why was the mtg as an mmo(rpg) thread closed? I was having fun talking about it, hrmph-
You're wrong. There are much better options in blocks. They may see SOME play, but "a ton of play", is far from ideal.
These however will be very good in limited. Early game mana fixing, late game benefits.
If the non cycling versions were really good, then they would get picked so fast, that you couldn't hope to draft the one you need to reliably fix your mana. This logic may be a little flawed, but at least it is a reason for some of these to be less than optimal. on turn 10 however, during a stalemate, I would be happy to draw any of them.
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
You can't be serious. Don't ever compare modern sets to older ones, least of all Ice Age. That is... unless you'd like to compare Force of Will to Traumatic Visions for example...
My Sales Post!
Insert random nifty image i haven't made anybody make yet.:smileup:
And now...the dancing banana
Probably in block, seeing as then we really have nothing control-esque to do on turn 2 as it stands. Other than that...I don't think it's going to see play unless we somehow get a tempo deck that can really abuse both halves of the card (no Fae don't count...do you want a basic land in hand or BB in play on t2? >_>).
Gleam of Resistance- mass pump & untap at instant for 4W is L playable & the basic cycling is just a nice bonus.
Machius proudly supports R_E's right to Rumour!
The other ones are less impressive the white one is probably second best and the blue one is 3rd best.
The green one is pretty weak although people might run it just to cycle.
All these cards will only show up in limited unless a true domain deck runs a copy or two to cycle away in 99% of circumstances.
Feel free to bid on my cards here!
vīs (genitive vīs); f, third declension
1. force, power
2. violence
* the Wikipedia page - Martin Luther on Catholic church reform
Nōn vī, sed verbō.
Not through violence, but the word.
It appears they are referencing Absorb Power but they wanted to use a more unique word for Power. Could be wrong on what vis represents but this is a good guess.
Feel free to bid on my cards here!
"Vis" is the word used in Grixis for life. No green, no white = only one place to get life-based energy, and that's people.
So the red one is only the 4th, according to you? I would rate it above everything else, then black, white, blue, and green.
DCI L2 Judge
GP:Madrid 2010 45th
GP:Amsterdam 2011 74th
GP:London 2013 67th
Bazaar of Moxen 2013 32nd
Hahaha, we had it allmost right, it's a five mana counterspell.
The abilties of the spell actually al suck big time. But it's the cycling which make the card so powerfull. Defenitly in blue.
Posted by: Tay Collins | January 20, 2010 6:45 AM
Tay, that's not evolution. It's metamorphosis. Evolution means descent with heritable modification – individuals cannot evolve, unless they're Pokemon.
Posted by: David Marjanović | January 20, 2010 8:55 AM
It would be broken to give any deck the ability to cast Lay of the Land for :2mana:, but it's okay to make it cost :symb:? Considering there's aparently common cycle, as you just revealed, that logic falls apart fast.
Cool, thanks for the info. I haven't followed storyline in years.
No, it isn't. Even negative opinions are welcome in the Rumor Mill.
Assuming the cards are correct as rumored...
: You're paying more for the landcycling option.
: You're paying more for the landcycling option.
: You're paying more for the landcycling option which sucks in this colour.
: You're paying more for the landcycling option which is great in this colour and the card it's based on is constructed playable.
: You're paying more for the landcycling option.
My opinion is that they all suck in constructed. In limited: the green one is horribly overcosted and not even useful, while the white one is less overcosted than the rest, and the blue one is not only the cheapest but has the most potent effect. Typical cycle screwup, Hasbro!
.
the truth is that the cards arent that different, the green one is also an instant, and still more efficient than stream of life, despite that it was never a good card, and the white one is 2 more than warriors honor, but 3 more than cards that are strictly better like surge of thoughtweft, so even though it provides that extra +0/+1 i think its a bit of a wash. so more or less all the cards are 2 more than they should for the use of the landcycling, the remind me of wayfarers twig and bauble, but the color investment allows for a lategame effect, and i think in sealed and even draft all of these are playable. the black one i actually find weaker than the green in limited, because while it cant deliver that final blow, often it will save you from a would be lethal strike that causes your opponant to tap themselves into a bad defensive position. Ive won quite a few games on the back of angelsong, when a player would swing out to get the win, a intstant lifegain/damage prevention, allows you to swing back un hindered.
also in limited i dont think a counter is as potent an effect as kill a 5 toughness creature, at least not at 5 mana, its much more difficult to keep 5 mana open for a counter than 3 for cancel, and at least cryptic command is awsome, and disperse nets you a card, and still doesnt need 5 mana open
Actually, in Limited, the Green one is right in the middle. It kinda compares to Angelsong, not that you'd WANT to run either, but can be useful. There are subtle differences, though.
Angelsong will save you from a Naya alpha strike, while Bounty probably won't. Angelsong can also cycle into gas.
Bounty, however, can save you from getting Resounding Thundered or Soul's Fireed out, both of which happen a lot. It's a better tool for ensuring that you do indeed stabilize with your more powerful but slower deck. Bounty, also, obviously filters your mana, but that's especially important in a Green deck, because it vastly improves your chances of hitting with one of the unfair tri-color uncommon creatures on turn 3.
The blue one is fine the way it is. A lot of people don't notice, but blue has color fixed with lands for years. It doesn't tend to search for lands, but it has the power to turn any land into any basic land type you desire. Really, I'd say blue is #2 in mana fixing after green. In Planar Chaos, it even got the Harrow spellshaper.
As for the green one being weak, it seems like the lifegain of Primal Command has gotten its fair share of play even in constructed. It does gain a significant amount of life as well as doubling as a mana fixer. It's really not that bad. Pure lifegain isn't worth playing in most cases, but this one does something generally useful, while getting the lifegain into your deck in the event that you do actually need it. It's unlikely to see constructed play, but in limited, I have a feeling, people will value it more after they've played it a few times. Having an extra 8 life to play with can be a really nice cushion if your life total got pretty slim before you got board advantage. Afterall, you want your huge fattie to kick some ass, not sit back and block. Besides, like people have said, these cards are mana fixing with a bonus spell tacked on. I'm pretty sure that lifegain will steal at least one win for someone, about every other limited tournament or so.
For color fixing purposes they are all limited "playable" to some extent (remembering that there's a pack less of panoramas), but the white and red ones are the only ones I would be OK with topdecking after about turn 5. While obviously overcosted, the white one is a decent combat trick which doesn't really exist in the block otherwise. The red one obviously is damage which rarely 100% sucks. The blue one is borderline in limited. The green and black ones just have such terribly inconsequential effects for the investment... you would almost never want to topdeck one late, which seriously reduces the playability. Even something like an Akrasan Squire can break a stall, but Sylvan Bounty never will.