I absolutely love these cards, and I can't wait to make an EDH deck using this Naya theme! I am so excited for Shards now, because I get to make a whole new Naya EDH deck based on the "Fat creatures are fat" theme. I can combine them with the "Costly creatures are costly" theme from Scourge.
The enchantment yes I consider it bad as well (it could be accelerated but not what I want)..
The big guy on the other hand is something I would want to work with lieges (Creakwood Liege for instance), just to have your creatures at 5 power and then to spam by paying 1 for as many creatures as you can with 5 power or better it basically says to *** "SCREW.. YOU.."
actually...I think it at R would help is see play or set up a really stupid archetype based on cheating damage with this. But overall, I like it very much, but...4R makes me unable to play it when I want to build a deck for FNM.
The Spearbreaker though... ...I would gamble on in block.
I would so play it at R. An enchantment for R that attaches a 5 point burn spell to at least a third of my deck for no additional cost. Hell yes sign me up.
It would spawn a pretty dominating archetype at that cost. There are plenty of very good cards that can trigger it and are fine on their own. Do not underestimate how big a thing a repeatable 5 point burn spell is....
I hate to state the absolutely obvious, but if you can repeatedly put 5+ power creatures into play you might want to skip the "first pay 5 mana for something that doesn't attack" part of the plan.
You tourney players can't even get original ideas other than by netdecking?
T1: Suspend Greater Gargadon (10 time counters)
T2: Mogg War Marshal (9 time counters)
T3: Sac marshal to gargadon (7 time counters)
2 goblin tokens - attack with one? 19 life
Sac 2 tokens (5 time counters) Seething Song -> Where Ancients Tread
2 Ornithopters and sac them?
Sac 3 lands -> Gargadon
WAT deals 5 to player and attack with gargadon -> 14/15 damage dealt this turn, end it next turn.
Maybe some more accel... or slower by playing that Saproling generator when put into graveyard T3.
This card has potential to not be boring to play and that's what's important.
Besides, you can Zombify a fattie or blink it too.
Anyone else notice the weird wording on the Behemoth's activated ability?
"Target creature with power 5 or greater is indestructible this turn"
What happened to "until end of turn"?
I saw that too. My guess would be that they mean the same (since the turn has to end at some point) and the template change is to save space: 9 characters for 'this turn' versus the 17 needed for 'until end of turn'. That's almost a 50% rules text real estate gain.
Remember Circu, Dimir Lobotomist changed the rules to allow libraries to be targeted? There wasn't a way to save enough space in describing his abilities. Perhaps we'll be lucky and get something sick (read: more awesome than this) that needed this change to have enough space.
On the bright side, 'Where Ancients Tread' will make virtually every dragon into a Bogardan Hellkite because this is what we all wanted: more CITP faceblasting you can't do anything about.
Yes. A thousand times yes. They lured me in with Ivory Tower and Zuran Orb, and I kept telling myself "I can quit whenever I want...just look at that untapped disk". That was ten years ago man.....
Bane's Reading Suggestions David Eddings: The Belgariad, Mallorean, Elenium and Tamuli Series. The Redemption of Althalus Jim Butcher: The Codex Alera Series
I think Spearbreaker Behemoth needs a bit more credit from people. No, it's not constructed viable, but it will be really good in limited. It's going to play a lot like Konda, Lord of Eganjo. It can do 2 more damage if it connects, though. It doesn't have vigilance, but either it or another huge fattie can be home to block with very little chance of being removed. If you've ever played against indestructible creatures in limited, you know why they cost 7+. Ok, so the Sapling was an exception, but Shadowmoor had wither.
As for the enchantment, it sucks now. We'll have to wait and see the rest of the cards to see if it can get better, though.
At 2R this would have seen competitive play. At 3R this would have seen casual play. At 4R is a waste of cardboard and a really really sad rare to crack open while someone next to you opened a Tezzeret.
Pretty much. The good design principle is to stop buffing the cost when the people you want to use the card will still use it. At 3R I at least see reasons to play this instead of Pandemonium, especially in multi games, and at 2R it could have been an honest attempt to see if an effect like this could ever be worthwhile in (say) block constructed. 4R is just pricing it beyond what anyone should ever be willing to pay for the effect.
Spearkbreaker Behemoth is really pretty fine in comparison; he's an expensive green fatty that won't ever see tourney play, but in all honesty, kitchen table decks have an insatiable hunger for new green fatties.
You tourney players can't even get original ideas other than by netdecking?
T1: Suspend Greater Gargadon (10 time counters)
T2: Mogg War Marshal (9 time counters)
T3: Sac marshal to gargadon (7 time counters)
2 goblin tokens - attack with one? 19 life
Sac 2 tokens (5 time counters) Seething Song -> Where Ancients Tread
2 Ornithopters and sac them?
Sac 3 lands -> Gargadon
WAT deals 5 to player and attack with gargadon -> 14/15 damage dealt this turn, end it next turn.
Maybe some more accel... or slower by playing that Saproling generator when put into graveyard T3.
This card has potential to not be boring to play and that's what's important.
Besides, you can Zombify a fattie or blink it too.
Err.. Im a johnny myself and I'm usually the first to jump in to mock spikes when they undervalue a card (just check my other posts). But this enchantment really offends me as a player. It's like other poster jokingly said: it seems to aim to a demographic that will only play it basically because wizards is taunting them with "so you really think you can play with crappy stuff? wait until you try this! hahaha".
Just look your "combo": it uses 6 cards to drop Gargadon in turn 3, (wiping both your board and your hand in the process) just to get an early activation of it..and nothing else because Gargadon will be chumpblocked! So you dealt 5 damage to the dome at the price of having 0 lands, 1 easily blockable and killable creature, 1 now useless enchantment and 1 card in hand at the beginning of turn 4! And then as it starts dawning on you that maybe it wasnt a good idea you draw another copy of WAT, or another Gargadon or Ornithopter or other subpar card that you forced in your deck just to make work an even more subpar card.
Spearkbreaker Behemoth is really pretty fine in comparison; he's an expensive green fatty that won't ever see tourney play, but in all honesty, kitchen table decks have an insatiable hunger for new green fatties.
I'm calling it right now- worst rare in the set. Even good limited players will find better bombs at common and uncommon no sweat. Worst. Episode. Ever.
I really do predict this to be our worst rare in set award winner. I'd be happier opening a jar of eyeballs, so I think anything worse is highly unlikely. This card wont just have zero constructed potential, but not be significantly better than a mass of ghouls in a draft.
I think this Shards of Alara is basically a set where the development team went into the archives of cards cut out of other better sets and put them into one group. "Here's the set! Slap some tricolored man cost on some of these bad boys and send them out to print!" They said. Turns out not all of them are utterly broken they just suck.
If I were drafting, I would definitely pick the Spearbreaker but if I bought a booster pack pack and either one of those was in there I'd be pissed. I'd feel cheated. I'm so glad that I've decided not to buy any boosters this time around.
The enchantment would be a litle more playable if the text read, "whenever a creature comes into play under your control, if it has power 5 or more, then.......".
It could at least be usable with pump effects. As it stands, meh.
Although, (just for fun):
turn 1: forest, birds.
turn 2: forest, wilt-leaf-cavalier
turn 3: land, sarkhan vol, use ability
turn 4: land, where ancients tread, use ability
turn 5: any red liege, 4 dragons, game over.
Whatever! Just an example of what could possibly be done...
What's more fun, this or "Play tarmogoyf turn 2"?
You can't be a real johnny
Even if this kind of trick doesn't work (and it rarely does), I find this much more fun than any competitive play. But whatever floats one's boat!
And seriously, a piece of cardboard "offends" you?
I, by principle, do not play tarmogoys. My decks are usually full of rogue cards and its fun to see spikes rage when I win... because you see.. I like to make card combos and have fun, but I also like to win, or at least, actually get to play. If you are just putting togheter a lot of cards just to come with a silly effect "for the fun of it", you'll soon get frustrated when playing against other decks (and not necessarily netdecks, just well made decks) you dont even get to do anything before you lose. You'll be preparing your "awesome" combo for many turns while the opponent just plays normally and wins, and then you didnt even manage to get off! Where's the fun in that? What's the fun in coming with an effect that will only activate when you are playing against really really bad decks? what kind of satisfaction is that?
Being a Johnny is not about playing bad cards and feeling self-righteous because you dont follow the mainstream. Being a Johnny is about finding new, overlooked interactions between the cards and winning in surprising, fun ways.
And yes, I'm in my own right of finding a piece of cardboard offensive if I paid hard-worked-for money for it.
I'm calling it right now- worst rare in the set. Even good limited players will find better bombs at common and uncommon no sweat. Worst. Episode. Ever.
I really do predict this to be our worst rare in set award winner. I'd be happier opening a jar of eyeballs, so I think anything worse is highly unlikely. This card wont just have zero constructed potential, but not be significantly better than a mass of ghouls in a draft.
Jesus, what the heck is up with these two cards. I for one am pissed that these have a chance of sneaking into the rare spot of any of my packs. Where Ancients Tread should either have costed less mana or not been made at all. They are really fudging up the Green Shard in this set.
I'm happy I'll be able to pick where ancient thread cheap to try to combo it with day of the dragons in my EDH deck. With kher keep, the enchantment that makes goblins every turn and a few other token makers... casual fun.
(OTOH, I think people are dismissing it too fast. With mana acceleration, you can build a RGW fatty-burn deck without needing to use card space for burn. Wizards probably costed it so high because it was otherwise too good.)
The Jund theme of creatures that devour for benefits and creatures that like to die for benefits can be made good simply by giving us good benefits on these creatures and creatures that like to die that work well on their own (making them still potentially good if you don't draw your Devouring creatures).
However, the Naya theme of playing fatties just seems silly. Those kinds of decks never work properly because no deck can survive running more than a small handful of really large creatures. Unless fat creatures have an alternative way to play them (like Cloudthresher with its 4cc Evoke cost), all they'll do is sit in your hand while your opponent can play with all of his spells. Unless the set has some absolutely ridiculous mana accelerators (like a green version of Seething Song), the "play fatties" theme of Naya just can't be used in constructed events. Now, I'm not going to dismiss all Naya cards, but I doubt its stated theme will work.
Woo, two Timmy rares. A win more enchantment for beast cards, and a huge beast that's about to get O-Ringed.
...I hate to judge cards solely from a Spike's perspective, cause these cards just made Timmy jump for joy. But it is annoying seeing another preview day go by and saying "oh look, that thing'll be hard to stop in limited."
Where Ancients Tread: B+. People, it's a Lava Axe if you play at least 1 fattie. That's not awful. And it's good if you play more.
Spearbreaker Benemoth: C. Boo.
I actually think Spearbreaker Behemoth, while obviously bonkers in Limited, could turn out to be a great card in Constructed. Where and how, I have no idea. ^.^;;
Where Ancients Tread reminds me of Æther Charge, but I'm not sure if it'll have the same, if any, impact. Seems cool in limited.
This enchantment is the ultimate garbage, reminds me of kamigawa
Quote from DanoLefourbe »
The enchantment is terrible.
What's with all this hate on the enchantment? Sure, it's not a tournament worthy card, but that doesn't make it bad. It's like Doubling Season, and last I checked Doubling Season was a very popular casual card. I'm not even a Timmy, and I rather like it.
People are making bad card comparisons here. Pandemonium is symmetrical -- that's huge. It's almost like comparing Wrath of God to Plague Wind. Your opponent gets first go at it since you likely used all your mana to play it, whereas Ancients Tread doesn't have that problem.
People also like to compare it to Aether Charge. The big difference here is that Where Ancients Tread can hit creatures. Again, that's a big deal. How I see this best used is to clear the way for creatures with a very high power-to-toughness ratio, like Thunderblust or perhaps Vengeful Firebrand. Usually, it's preferable to burn creatures rather than the player when you are holding a burn spell, especially if you've got a offensive fatty in play.
I'll be making a casual deck that uses this. I probably won't be going to any tournaments with it, but it'll be a fun, decent deck.
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The tears nourish me.
I like both cards, though the enchantment mostly because of the name.
Shards is shaping up to be a great set.
The enchantment yes I consider it bad as well (it could be accelerated but not what I want)..
The big guy on the other hand is something I would want to work with lieges (Creakwood Liege for instance), just to have your creatures at 5 power and then to spam by paying 1 for as many creatures as you can with 5 power or better it basically says to *** "SCREW.. YOU.."
The Spearbreaker though... ...I would gamble on in block.
You like salty loads? j/k
I agree that Shards is looking fun. I can't wait to wreck all the pretty manabases with Fulminator Mage/Reveillark.dec
I hate to state the absolutely obvious, but if you can repeatedly put 5+ power creatures into play you might want to skip the "first pay 5 mana for something that doesn't attack" part of the plan.
There might be better combos in extended.
Anyone else notice the weird wording on the Behemoth's activated ability?
"Target creature with power 5 or greater is indestructible this turn"
What happened to "until end of turn"?
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Curse PremiumI saw that too. My guess would be that they mean the same (since the turn has to end at some point) and the template change is to save space: 9 characters for 'this turn' versus the 17 needed for 'until end of turn'. That's almost a 50% rules text real estate gain.
Remember Circu, Dimir Lobotomist changed the rules to allow libraries to be targeted? There wasn't a way to save enough space in describing his abilities. Perhaps we'll be lucky and get something sick (read: more awesome than this) that needed this change to have enough space.
On the bright side, 'Where Ancients Tread' will make virtually every dragon into a Bogardan Hellkite because this is what we all wanted: more CITP faceblasting you can't do anything about.
As Rancored elf said just before, there are 75 instances of 'this turn' in standard according to gatherer
or something like that
Where ancients tread = crap, though i might chuck it in a casual deck.
behemoth things ok
You "get" or "gain" or "become" stuff until end of turn. You "are" or "can't" do stuff this turn. Just depends on the verb used.
Under Original Management!
Bane's Reading Suggestions
David Eddings: The Belgariad, Mallorean, Elenium and Tamuli Series. The Redemption of Althalus
Jim Butcher: The Codex Alera Series
As for the enchantment, it sucks now. We'll have to wait and see the rest of the cards to see if it can get better, though.
Pretty much. The good design principle is to stop buffing the cost when the people you want to use the card will still use it. At 3R I at least see reasons to play this instead of Pandemonium, especially in multi games, and at 2R it could have been an honest attempt to see if an effect like this could ever be worthwhile in (say) block constructed. 4R is just pricing it beyond what anyone should ever be willing to pay for the effect.
Spearkbreaker Behemoth is really pretty fine in comparison; he's an expensive green fatty that won't ever see tourney play, but in all honesty, kitchen table decks have an insatiable hunger for new green fatties.
Err.. Im a johnny myself and I'm usually the first to jump in to mock spikes when they undervalue a card (just check my other posts). But this enchantment really offends me as a player. It's like other poster jokingly said: it seems to aim to a demographic that will only play it basically because wizards is taunting them with "so you really think you can play with crappy stuff? wait until you try this! hahaha".
Just look your "combo": it uses 6 cards to drop Gargadon in turn 3, (wiping both your board and your hand in the process) just to get an early activation of it..and nothing else because Gargadon will be chumpblocked! So you dealt 5 damage to the dome at the price of having 0 lands, 1 easily blockable and killable creature, 1 now useless enchantment and 1 card in hand at the beginning of turn 4! And then as it starts dawning on you that maybe it wasnt a good idea you draw another copy of WAT, or another Gargadon or Ornithopter or other subpar card that you forced in your deck just to make work an even more subpar card.
This gave me a hearty chuckle.
If I were drafting, I would definitely pick the Spearbreaker but if I bought a booster pack pack and either one of those was in there I'd be pissed. I'd feel cheated. I'm so glad that I've decided not to buy any boosters this time around.
It could at least be usable with pump effects. As it stands, meh.
Although, (just for fun):
turn 1: forest, birds.
turn 2: forest, wilt-leaf-cavalier
turn 3: land, sarkhan vol, use ability
turn 4: land, where ancients tread, use ability
turn 5: any red liege, 4 dragons, game over.
On Planar Chaos:
I, by principle, do not play tarmogoys. My decks are usually full of rogue cards and its fun to see spikes rage when I win... because you see.. I like to make card combos and have fun, but I also like to win, or at least, actually get to play. If you are just putting togheter a lot of cards just to come with a silly effect "for the fun of it", you'll soon get frustrated when playing against other decks (and not necessarily netdecks, just well made decks) you dont even get to do anything before you lose. You'll be preparing your "awesome" combo for many turns while the opponent just plays normally and wins, and then you didnt even manage to get off! Where's the fun in that? What's the fun in coming with an effect that will only activate when you are playing against really really bad decks? what kind of satisfaction is that?
Being a Johnny is not about playing bad cards and feeling self-righteous because you dont follow the mainstream. Being a Johnny is about finding new, overlooked interactions between the cards and winning in surprising, fun ways.
And yes, I'm in my own right of finding a piece of cardboard offensive if I paid hard-worked-for money for it.
(OTOH, I think people are dismissing it too fast. With mana acceleration, you can build a RGW fatty-burn deck without needing to use card space for burn. Wizards probably costed it so high because it was otherwise too good.)
However, the Naya theme of playing fatties just seems silly. Those kinds of decks never work properly because no deck can survive running more than a small handful of really large creatures. Unless fat creatures have an alternative way to play them (like Cloudthresher with its 4cc Evoke cost), all they'll do is sit in your hand while your opponent can play with all of his spells. Unless the set has some absolutely ridiculous mana accelerators (like a green version of Seething Song), the "play fatties" theme of Naya just can't be used in constructed events. Now, I'm not going to dismiss all Naya cards, but I doubt its stated theme will work.
...I hate to judge cards solely from a Spike's perspective, cause these cards just made Timmy jump for joy. But it is annoying seeing another preview day go by and saying "oh look, that thing'll be hard to stop in limited."
Akuma will wreck you.
Spearbreaker Benemoth: C. Boo.
1. Baneslayer Angel 2. Birds of Paradise 3. Lightning Bolt 4. Honor of the Pure 5. Goblin Chieftain
My top 5 Zendikar cards:
1. Eternity Vessel 2. Chandra Ablaze 3. Beastmaster Ascension 4. Ob Nixilis, the Fallen 5. Rampaging Baloths
Where Ancients Tread reminds me of Æther Charge, but I'm not sure if it'll have the same, if any, impact. Seems cool in limited.
What's with all this hate on the enchantment? Sure, it's not a tournament worthy card, but that doesn't make it bad. It's like Doubling Season, and last I checked Doubling Season was a very popular casual card. I'm not even a Timmy, and I rather like it.
People are making bad card comparisons here. Pandemonium is symmetrical -- that's huge. It's almost like comparing Wrath of God to Plague Wind. Your opponent gets first go at it since you likely used all your mana to play it, whereas Ancients Tread doesn't have that problem.
People also like to compare it to Aether Charge. The big difference here is that Where Ancients Tread can hit creatures. Again, that's a big deal. How I see this best used is to clear the way for creatures with a very high power-to-toughness ratio, like Thunderblust or perhaps Vengeful Firebrand. Usually, it's preferable to burn creatures rather than the player when you are holding a burn spell, especially if you've got a offensive fatty in play.
I'll be making a casual deck that uses this. I probably won't be going to any tournaments with it, but it'll be a fun, decent deck.