Well, there are actually TWO things that CAN make the troll a good card, depending on the rest of the Shadowmoor cards.
The first is obvious; a 5/5 auto-regenerator for seven mana is good, but nothing spectacular.
The other thing is Q. Depending on what other creatures there are with untap abilities from Shadowmoor (and what those abilities are), the Troll can be a massive Q enabler. Given that it comes into play fairly late in the game, it can cause some interesting play the moment it enters the scene, since you will probably have the 10 power worth of creatures (most of them with Q abilities, of course) needed to have a lot of fun.
I expect it to be strictly Johnny material, but I will not say it's a bad card until I see some of the better Q cards in the set.
Nothing really impressive today... A 7cc 5/5 with auto-regen and can become 25/25. Maybe in casual, but definitely a bomb in limited. Forget the +20/+20 ability in limited, the auto-regen means that you have a constant threat on the board. The troll would definitely love having Rhys around...
The enchantment is too slow. Good card draw effect, but would not get you any cards by itself the turn you play it. With a lot of better spells in blue, the most this card can do is a casual deck, maybe something with a lot of card draw and some hand-size-matters cards.
Yeah, each one you have doubles all of your draws. 2 of them, you draw 4, three, you draw 8, etc.
I'm pretty sure this is wrong, primarily because it's a replacement effect. If it worked this way, it would actually force you to draw your deck whenever you drew a card (ie. "Draw a card" is replaced with "draw two cards." "Draw two cards" is only two instances of "draw a card," thus creating a infinite loop)
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Step 1: Have Mossbridge Troll in play.
Step 2: Play Nova Chaser.
Step 3: In response to Nova Chaser's citp ability, tap it to pump the Troll.
...yeah, that'll do.
And I'll throw a 1/1 to chump. Done with combat? k... yawn.
2 Crappy 7 mana cards... dang gotta wait another day to get excited. I'd play Tidings over that enchantment EVEN IF it was the same mana cost. What a pile.
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Mark Rosewater: "We won't print contstructed utility cards at Mythic."
Nope, you'll print format defining, absolutely necessary cards at mythic instead.
Those blow. The troll probably even sucks in limited as a 7 mana 5/5.
I think in limited he'll be pretty solid, he is big enough that it'll take 5 -1/-1 counters to kill him or a terror effect, and he will at least trade with most creatures, I think he might end up being a bomb in limited depending on removal.
I'm pretty sure this is wrong, primarily because it's a replacement effect. If it worked this way, it would actually force you to draw your deck whenever you drew a card (ie. "Draw a card" is replaced with "draw two cards." "Draw two cards" is only two instances of "draw a card," thus creating a infinite loop)
Nope, think of it this way.
Draw one card.
Now, put one of them into play, and the replacement effect turns it into
Draw one card and one card.
Now, if you put another into play... it changes to...
Draw one card and one card and one card and one card.
So, notice that the original replacement effect, from the first one, is still in action, even tho -parts- of it are replaced. And, a replacement effect cannot modify itself, so the first one never applies to the second one. If you add a third, you end up drawing eight cards for the exact same reason... replacement effects do not negate the effect they replace... they simply make the existing effect do something else.
I believe Ron Spencer and Terese Nielsen are related to each other somehow...I want to say brother and sister, but I'm not sure.
They are indeed brother and sister.
And though it's hard to judge from the fuzzy, small pic, I don't really see any conflict in style; I can't help but think the art is more Spencer than Nielsen (maybe it's one of those arts where artist #1 makes a sketch and artist #2 paints it). If the artist credit didn't tell me Terese (or any other artist for that matter) was involved, I don't think I'd ever guess. Could just be me though.
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Thou shalt not have others of the same Legendary before me Thou shalt not frame images with the modern card face Thou shalt not change rules in vain Remember the Reserved List to keep it holy Honor thy Slivers and the symmetry of their abilities Thou shalt not kill mana burn Thou shalt not sacrifice depth for accessibility Thou shalt not steal combat damage from the stack Thou shalt tell a story through thy cards All must be one
I laughing... I laughing in the face of those right now who are thinking lowly of this troll. Why? Well I recall that Green is the KING of generating enough mana producing lands in a short amount of time right and green is also the KING in producing much mana in the very beginning turns, its also the KING of large power creatures heres how I laugh in your face:
I was originally using this strategy for the big C.C. but if you try to place the Mosswort Troll into the strategy you really have nothing to fear and your opponent knows that as killing a creature with this power is merely pointless to stop as next turn your going to pull this again. The only creature one can truly fear of that your troll here is not going to do to well is against the Godhead of Awe.
The first thing one should notice is the casting cost of these cards. At 7 mana, a card should either be a huge threat or a game winner. These are neither (at least on their own). A waste of two rare slots.
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With the Magus of the Vineyard you also accelerate your opponents, and while you are screwing around with getting to cast the troll, they are playing better cards that you helped to accelerate out: like turn 3 reveillarks full cost Muldrifters for 3, etc. Not to mention any mass removal hoses you. So why not just play Colossus as you can play that without that much acceleration and ride it to victory instead of stuff like the troll for which you need incredible early acceleration and you still do not outright win the game.
Because I prefer to think up a single game breaking moment in a card's combo most of the time, I prefer the large and complicated compared to the simple and cheap combos that give one a Insta-win in a cup.
Though I admit from myself that the card is truly not worth defending over on how strong it can be (Compared to Redeemed Rhys who was much more playable and better then the Mosswort Troll... don't give me that look, you know what I mean).
IF there was a way to sneak into play Thought Reflection, then it could worth including in a blue control deck. Maybe a green-blue build that has all the mana-ramp elements (turn 1 accelerant, turn 2 accelerant, and garruk), thing is it's a card that doesn't do anything immediate the moment it hits play... it's best if you can make it land early, somehow
The troll could be awesome depending on the spot removal being used. It only worries about terror, damnation, and wrath, so there's a lot of things out there that it could dodge... limited play perhaps? 7 mana should be easy for green. Forget the +20/+20 ability... you're gonna consider this for the auto-regen.
Heh... Times like this, I'm glad that I don't play standard anymore. Because, let's face it, these aren't the kinds of cards that standard players get excited about. Speaking as a fan of EDH and Reject Rare Draft, though, I can say that these are both really exciting. In the right deck, you'll have a hard time not being able to activate the troll in EDH, and Thought Reflection just seems like a bomb. I mean, at the absolute worst, it's an expensive Phyrexian Arena. At its best, it's just a CA machine. And, of course, if they don't pan out in EDH, I always have my RRD pool, where they'll feel right at home. Two big, unique effects? Oh, today is a good day indeed!
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also listen to yodafan he knows whats hes talking about
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Yeah, Yodafan's pretty much a EDH pro.
Yodafan: Official pro of one of Magic’s most casual formats.
Thought Reflection: A Johnny card for constructed that is absolute trash in Limited. It isn't even that interesting in Constructed. No thanks.
Constructed: 3/10
Limited: 1/10
Mossbridge Troll: Auto-regeneration? Now that is cool. It's second ability is likely too hard to make relevant in Constructed and it still is an expensive creature without evasion... But in Limited this card is a powerhouse. Never forget that, if the GW precon is anything to go by, there are a lot of untap effects in Green, so you can always have it tap itself to make it into an enormous monster and then untap it. With that in mind, it is probably for the best it doesn't have evasion. A 5/5 that regenerates whenever it would die is awesome enough to rock Limited tables as it is.
I'm interested in seeing the rest of the Troll cycle. Howltooth, Shelldock, etc. I'm not too fond of Troll, but his first ability could be pretty mean. Shriekmaw, Eyeblight's Ending, and Deathmark don't have the regenerate clause.
Dudes, might I remind you all again, that trash is a subjective term. Remember when Tarmogoyf was spoiled, and nearly everybody thought he was trash? Remember when people thought Necropotence was trash? Or Phyrexian Arena? Or any number of dozens of cards that people thought were trash, and some people made it work? History repeats itself for a reason: people don't learn!
Whilst I agree that this card is unlikely to be anywhere near as powerful as either Tarmogoyf or Necropotence...nevertheless it has casual applications. As has been said before, in certain speciality formats it definitely has a place, and in some number of Johnny decks as well. As for those people that diss casual players, well, honestly, we don't care about your opinion that much. We'll gladly take these 'trash' off your hands for free, if you so wish.
The Troll is not a bad card by any means; I agree with The Ferret's assessment of the card. However, I do think it needs to be in a very dedicated deck for it to be at its most effective.
thought of reflection is the most mana overpriced card drawing card i have seen in a while is just more crap then crap.another rare thrown into the 1 dollar rare bin.I think i doesnt even to be in the 1 dollar bin thats how crappy it is.
Mossbridge Troll- Limited bomb, but in constructed with Wrath, Damnation, Shriekmaw, Terror, Crib Swap and Oblivion Ring, regeneration isn't all that special.
Thought Reflection- At the worst it's a 7 mana one sided Howling Mine, with cantrips or any card drawing engine it becomes fantastic. The 7 mana cost is probably a bit too high to make it standard viable though.
THOUGHT OF REFLECTION IS the most crappy and man overpriced card drawing enchantment i have ever seen so crappy it doesn't deserve to go in the one dollar bin of rares
Yes Sezhiro, repeat yourself. Cos we didn't hear you the first-time.
On-topic: okay, I just figured out something that might make the enchantment work: Academy Rector. In fact, more specifically Kiki-Jiki and Academy Rector, then searching this out...but then again, I do suppose Academy Rector combos with just about every enchantment ever printed (except Bridge from Below)
Yes Sezhiro, repeat yourself. Cos we didn't hear you the first-time.
On-topic: okay, I just figured out something that might make the enchantment work: Academy Rector. In fact, more specifically Kiki-Jiki and Academy Rector, then searching this out...but then again, I do suppose Academy Rector combos with just about every enchantment ever printed (except Bridge from Below)
That's not a combo. That's a combo that maybe creates some card advantage if you maybe untap with the enchantment intact and have some draw spell that you actually resolve. If you sacrificed a rector to get that effect, you're retarded. Rector is a good way to get enchantments that do stuff.
The new blue enchantment + Niv-Mizzet + the new swan = draw your deck for the win.
tap the Miz to do one damage to the swan, draw one card (from the swan's ability) draw another card from the enchantment, do one damage to your opponent, and one damage to the swan. auto repeat.
That's not a combo. That's a combo that maybe creates some card advantage if you maybe untap with the enchantment intact and have some draw spell that you actually resolve. If you sacrificed a rector to get that effect, you're retarded. Rector is a good way to get enchantments that do stuff.
Yes, hence the Kiki-Jiki.
Also, I don't think it's necessarily a good combo, but it's one of many ways you could potentially use a jank rare.
The first is obvious; a 5/5 auto-regenerator for seven mana is good, but nothing spectacular.
The other thing is Q. Depending on what other creatures there are with untap abilities from Shadowmoor (and what those abilities are), the Troll can be a massive Q enabler. Given that it comes into play fairly late in the game, it can cause some interesting play the moment it enters the scene, since you will probably have the 10 power worth of creatures (most of them with Q abilities, of course) needed to have a lot of fun.
I expect it to be strictly Johnny material, but I will not say it's a bad card until I see some of the better Q cards in the set.
The enchantment is too slow. Good card draw effect, but would not get you any cards by itself the turn you play it. With a lot of better spells in blue, the most this card can do is a casual deck, maybe something with a lot of card draw and some hand-size-matters cards.
I quote him, hybrid cards are more tricky and amazing... the U/W is awesome!
H/W - Website
I'm pretty sure this is wrong, primarily because it's a replacement effect. If it worked this way, it would actually force you to draw your deck whenever you drew a card (ie. "Draw a card" is replaced with "draw two cards." "Draw two cards" is only two instances of "draw a card," thus creating a infinite loop)
And I'll throw a 1/1 to chump. Done with combat? k... yawn.
2 Crappy 7 mana cards... dang gotta wait another day to get excited. I'd play Tidings over that enchantment EVEN IF it was the same mana cost. What a pile.
Nope, you'll print format defining, absolutely necessary cards at mythic instead.
I think in limited he'll be pretty solid, he is big enough that it'll take 5 -1/-1 counters to kill him or a terror effect, and he will at least trade with most creatures, I think he might end up being a bomb in limited depending on removal.
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Curse PremiumNope, think of it this way.
Draw one card.
Now, put one of them into play, and the replacement effect turns it into
Draw one card and one card.
Now, if you put another into play... it changes to...
So, notice that the original replacement effect, from the first one, is still in action, even tho -parts- of it are replaced. And, a replacement effect cannot modify itself, so the first one never applies to the second one. If you add a third, you end up drawing eight cards for the exact same reason... replacement effects do not negate the effect they replace... they simply make the existing effect do something else.
They are indeed brother and sister.
And though it's hard to judge from the fuzzy, small pic, I don't really see any conflict in style; I can't help but think the art is more Spencer than Nielsen (maybe it's one of those arts where artist #1 makes a sketch and artist #2 paints it). If the artist credit didn't tell me Terese (or any other artist for that matter) was involved, I don't think I'd ever guess. Could just be me though.
Thou shalt not frame images with the modern card face
Thou shalt not change rules in vain
Remember the Reserved List to keep it holy
Honor thy Slivers and the symmetry of their abilities
Thou shalt not kill mana burn
Thou shalt not sacrifice depth for accessibility
Thou shalt not steal combat damage from the stack
Thou shalt tell a story through thy cards
All must be one
Turn 1: Land, Magus of the Vineyard
Turn 2: Land, x2 Llanowar Elves
Turn 3: Land, Chameleon Colossus, Primal Rage
Turn 4: Land, Mosswort Troll
Turn 5: Land, (Double the Colossus' power and tap him and 2 of the elves), attack..
I was originally using this strategy for the big C.C. but if you try to place the Mosswort Troll into the strategy you really have nothing to fear and your opponent knows that as killing a creature with this power is merely pointless to stop as next turn your going to pull this again. The only creature one can truly fear of that your troll here is not going to do to well is against the Godhead of Awe.
Banner and avatar by the one and only Craven at Epic graphics. Check them out.
Offical High Priest of Reign of Blood
Because I prefer to think up a single game breaking moment in a card's combo most of the time, I prefer the large and complicated compared to the simple and cheap combos that give one a Insta-win in a cup.
Though I admit from myself that the card is truly not worth defending over on how strong it can be (Compared to Redeemed Rhys who was much more playable and better then the Mosswort Troll... don't give me that look, you know what I mean).
The troll could be awesome depending on the spot removal being used. It only worries about terror, damnation, and wrath, so there's a lot of things out there that it could dodge... limited play perhaps? 7 mana should be easy for green. Forget the +20/+20 ability... you're gonna consider this for the auto-regen.
Yodafan: Official pro of one of Magic’s most casual formats.
Thought Reflection: A Johnny card for constructed that is absolute trash in Limited. It isn't even that interesting in Constructed. No thanks.
Constructed: 3/10
Limited: 1/10
Mossbridge Troll: Auto-regeneration? Now that is cool. It's second ability is likely too hard to make relevant in Constructed and it still is an expensive creature without evasion... But in Limited this card is a powerhouse. Never forget that, if the GW precon is anything to go by, there are a lot of untap effects in Green, so you can always have it tap itself to make it into an enormous monster and then untap it. With that in mind, it is probably for the best it doesn't have evasion. A 5/5 that regenerates whenever it would die is awesome enough to rock Limited tables as it is.
Constructed: 5/10
Limited: 8/10
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Whilst I agree that this card is unlikely to be anywhere near as powerful as either Tarmogoyf or Necropotence...nevertheless it has casual applications. As has been said before, in certain speciality formats it definitely has a place, and in some number of Johnny decks as well. As for those people that diss casual players, well, honestly, we don't care about your opinion that much. We'll gladly take these 'trash' off your hands for free, if you so wish.
The Troll is not a bad card by any means; I agree with The Ferret's assessment of the card. However, I do think it needs to be in a very dedicated deck for it to be at its most effective.
Mossbridge Troll = ltd slimer boogrs
And still no word about 'form'
Yup, nothing to see here!
But at least the art is cool, or something...?
Thought Reflection- At the worst it's a 7 mana one sided Howling Mine, with cantrips or any card drawing engine it becomes fantastic. The 7 mana cost is probably a bit too high to make it standard viable though.
Machius proudly supports R_E's right to Rumour!
Yes Sezhiro, repeat yourself. Cos we didn't hear you the first-time.
On-topic: okay, I just figured out something that might make the enchantment work: Academy Rector. In fact, more specifically Kiki-Jiki and Academy Rector, then searching this out...but then again, I do suppose Academy Rector combos with just about every enchantment ever printed (except Bridge from Below)
That's not a combo. That's a combo that maybe creates some card advantage if you maybe untap with the enchantment intact and have some draw spell that you actually resolve. If you sacrificed a rector to get that effect, you're retarded. Rector is a good way to get enchantments that do stuff.
tap the Miz to do one damage to the swan, draw one card (from the swan's ability) draw another card from the enchantment, do one damage to your opponent, and one damage to the swan. auto repeat.
Yes, hence the Kiki-Jiki.
Also, I don't think it's necessarily a good combo, but it's one of many ways you could potentially use a jank rare.