Oh, and by the way, what is the point of this discussion?
Oh, my bad. Guess I'll have to change my argument to "one gets Enveloped and the other doesn't. "
Ok ok ok, thats it for me on the whole 'strictly' thing. Every time its come up I've tried to avoid stepping in the whole icky issue, dunno what compelled me now of all times to throw my two bits in there.
Oh, my bad. Guess I'll have to change my argument to "one gets Enveloped and the other doesn't. "
Ok ok ok, thats it for me on the whole 'strictly' thing. Every time its come up I've tried to avoid stepping in the whole icky issue, dunno what compelled me now of all times to throw my two bits in there.
Why would one get enveloped? They are both instants.
What I meant with my comparison was that Grizzly Bears is always a 2/2 for 2, and that the Titan has an optional cost, which might mean that you will withhold your guy when it might be better to play it as a 2/2 for 2, instead of waiting until you can kicker him out. That option does not make him strictly better.
That is strictly better. So people can misplay the titan. Big deal, players can misplay Grizzly Bears as well.
I'm sorry, but wild mongrel *is* strictly better than grizzly bears for any reasonable definition of strictly better. Otherwise you'd have to say Ancestral isn't strictly better than inspiration, and - I'm sorry?
Same effect for less is strictly better. Better effect for same is strictly better. There may be some point in the future where the creature types of the two are relevant, but until then...
I mean, what if your opponent extractions you and names ashcoat bear because grizzly bear isn't as good? huh? huh?
If you can misplay Bears (1G, 2/2), that means you can misplay Titans as well as a 2/2 for 1G. Two possible mess-ups are more than one possible mess-up.
So which would you play, given room for only 4 1G 2/2s in your deck? (Assuming creature type is irrelevant?)
T: If it's your turn, add B to your mana pool. Otherwise, add U to your mana pool.
My guess is
Tap : Add U to your mana pool, and put a counter on it. Use this only when there is no counter on it.
Tap, remove a counter : Add B to your mana pool.
I like Pooling Venom, I was always a fan of Psychic Venom back in the day, and this one's strictly better (costs 2 just like Psychic Venom, but has a seperate ability as well as the 2 life for each tap) so at the very least I'm gonna run it in limited, since you can whack it on a Factory to stop them getting tokens, or put it on whatever land they only have one of (or, even better, onto their storage land) to dissuade them using them.
If you didn't like psychic venom, you can't have played blue in Shandalar (early on before you start picking up P9 when you're facing guys with like 6 life it's evil :P)
I like Pooling Venom, I was always a fan of Psychic Venom back in the day, and this one's strictly better (costs 2 just like Psychic Venom, but has a seperate ability as well as the 2 life for each tap) so at the very least I'm gonna run it in limited, since you can whack it on a Factory to stop them getting tokens, or put it on whatever land they only have one of (or, even better, onto their storage land) to dissuade them using them.
If you didn't like psychic venom, you can't have played blue in Shandalar (early on before you start picking up P9 when you're facing guys with like 6 life it's evil :P)
A card in a different color can't be strikely better then annother card in annother color (well thats my pow).
I played a lot of Shandalar (I killed off all but one of the bosses and runned around to get the best deck (no its not all P9 (no off color moxes (you got to many powerfull choices) and no time walk (extra turn??? why???) - atleast thats my version) and would like to disagree with that:
in the start stuff like MBA is evil ^^ (contract from below (best card EVER - as in if it were legal it would be played in most decks) its (as oppeosed to p9 and some others) buyable, dark ritual, bad moon, black knight, strip mine, that 2 mana black destroy target land, Hyppie, the raiders)
about the card: I think its pretty weak. It will not (really) be played in constructed (ld (which this would be the most use with - ok Mind over Matter style card would work the best) isnt that black currently and this isnt that good a splash card) and would proberly not be played in limiteted either (its worse then plain ld and ld isnt worth it in limited at all - not currently atleast).
Private Mod Note
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"Hail to the speaker, hail to the knower; joy to he who has understood, delight to they who have listened." - Odin
If I knew anything I'd share... possibly only to stop the constant flood of PM's from peeps wanting to know who, what, when, where etc.
Jesse: Dual lands eh? O.k, here's a clue: the UB Dual doesn't tap for colorless, it only taps for U or B mana, and.... there's no pain/gain or any other 'price' to get the mana either... however, there's is an interesting requirement to get B out of it as opposed U when you tap it...
That's all I'm gonna give you now, besides I don't have the name for it yet sooo... Patience.
What about artifact lands and the new duals, they are all strictly better, yet still worse then basics. There is no real such thing as better then a basic unless its just a completely free ability tagged in with :symtap::add to your pool. So there are alwasy gonna be lands that are "Strictly better" then basics, but yet aren't.
The orginal dual lands like Tundra and Underground Sea are pretty much better than a basic land unless Blood Moon or Wastelands are around.
I really dislike the Future Sight dual lands. I'd rather have a pain land I think. There will be times when you can't lay land and the drawback will be horrible even if you have 25 land plus in the deck.
The Ravi duals are so much better. I guess I'm spoiled but I want Watery Grave, Hallowed Fountain, Sacred Foundry & friends to stay around in T2. These were the cards that got me in T2. I'll probably tune out of T2 when the Ravi duals rotate out.
I think it's weird, since it's strictly better than a Island. If so, it should be equal for all the lands of the cycle. And, what's the point of making B harder to get? With the other lands of this cycle (if it became real), which color would be hard to get? RB having black hard? WG Having green hard? And why? It just doesn't make any sense.
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Current Playing [T2]:
UBB Rogues UUB Faeries RW Seismic Swans RRR Control
Cool stuff- its always a Island and almost always a Underground Sea(without the land types). Seems a bit too good to be true, apart from being unable to tutor for it its almost always better than Watery Grave because early game your always playing a land(and with this wording it counts itself) and by mid-late game you should have other black sources anyway.
Its not almost-always an underground sea. You can't tap for black during your opponent's turn and you can only tap for black if you played a land this turn (so, no black during your upkeep for echo or the like). It's also not an island - one of the big things about Underground Sea (and the shocklands) is you can tutor for them with fetches.
And I suppose if wizards were going to give a really good painless dual UB is the best color combination for it since its a slow combination, has no life gain effects and has self life loss effects.
This is the cycle made up of cycles MaRo hinted at today, and there is no reason to think that each of them couldn't be made into full cycles. It doesn't have much to do with the colors themselves (or the G/W would be the 'gainland' one).
I think it's weird, since it's strictly better than a Island.
Islands have the Basic Land type. This does not. Therefore, it cannot be strictly better. Will you probably be using them in place of islands? Yes. But people do the same with Underground Sea (which has a better case for being 'strictly better', down to being an actual island), Watery Grave, etc etc.
This is strictly better than Psychic Venom, and its LD effect is very useful. Also, this means that the B/r LL(Black Life-Loss) deck becomes some kind of awesome (for a few months, anyways.)
<Screeechhh> Woah...when did changing the color of a card ever make it strictly better? Seriously, blue has way more ways to tap stuff down than black. If you play both colors it is better, but otherwise it is a black card.:(
I wuv it, I can use it and Psychic Venom in me limited resources deck. Not only with they have a little mana to work with but using it will hurt too. So much more fun, or I can just blow the land up, nothing like choices.
if something, then tap for black, if not tap for blue.
Like:
Tap: If a card was put an opponent's graveyard(a graveyard perhaps?) from play(or maybe just anywhere?) this turn add B to your mana pool, otherwise add U to your mana pool.
It's flavor would be similar to gravestorm to(the ability, not the card)
(you know sort of like 'infecting the water')
I
Islands have the Basic Land type. This does not. Therefore, it cannot be strictly better. Will you probably be using them in place of islands? Yes. But people do the same with Underground Sea (which has a better case for being 'strictly better', down to being an actual island), Watery Grave, etc etc.
And what the basic land type does for island? Not being targeted by Wasteland? Oh, I don't think it's that great...
So, in most cases, I think UB Dual is better than an Island itself. And I keep saying it's weird that Black becomes 'hated' by this land. Why black? There's no flavour that explains this, imo.
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Anyway, I'm so disappointed with the duals. Neither of them are discard outlets. That's all I really wanted to see.
Oh, my bad. Guess I'll have to change my argument to "one gets Enveloped and the other doesn't. "
Ok ok ok, thats it for me on the whole 'strictly' thing. Every time its come up I've tried to avoid stepping in the whole icky issue, dunno what compelled me now of all times to throw my two bits in there.
Why would one get enveloped? They are both instants.
That is strictly better. So people can misplay the titan. Big deal, players can misplay Grizzly Bears as well.
Current post- Grand Prix KC Modern Postmortem (7/7/13)
T: If it's your turn, add B to your mana pool. Otherwise, add U to your mana pool.
CLICK TEH LINK TO HELP DRAGONS GROW
http://solarion.dragonadopters.com/dragon_15323
Same effect for less is strictly better. Better effect for same is strictly better. There may be some point in the future where the creature types of the two are relevant, but until then...
I mean, what if your opponent extractions you and names ashcoat bear because grizzly bear isn't as good? huh? huh?
So which would you play, given room for only 4 1G 2/2s in your deck? (Assuming creature type is irrelevant?)
Current post- Grand Prix KC Modern Postmortem (7/7/13)
My guess is
Tap : Add U to your mana pool, and put a counter on it. Use this only when there is no counter on it.
Tap, remove a counter : Add B to your mana pool.
"If you conrol an island, you can tap this for B, if you control a swamp, you can tap it for U"
Not sure if it is about it, though.
Guys, I'm not backseat modding, but just quoting the mod himself.
Here is what I have to say. The card has already been revealed.
Here it is: (rumored)
Tap: Add to your mana pool
Tap: Add to your mana pool. Play this ability only if you have played a land this turn.
If you didn't like psychic venom, you can't have played blue in Shandalar (early on before you start picking up P9 when you're facing guys with like 6 life it's evil :P)
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=8810959#post8810959
I hope thats what it really is. To me, it doesn't seem like its too much better than the Nimbus Maze "dual" or the RB one . . .
and for those that have suggested that it should be
tap: 1
tap: U or B, that would seem to me to be worse than Tainted Isle (which was uncommon!).
so I hope for the first version.
My trade thread can be found here:
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=1774171#post1774171
I played a lot of Shandalar (I killed off all but one of the bosses and runned around to get the best deck (no its not all P9 (no off color moxes (you got to many powerfull choices) and no time walk (extra turn??? why???) - atleast thats my version) and would like to disagree with that:
in the start stuff like MBA is evil ^^ (contract from below (best card EVER - as in if it were legal it would be played in most decks) its (as oppeosed to p9 and some others) buyable, dark ritual, bad moon, black knight, strip mine, that 2 mana black destroy target land, Hyppie, the raiders)
about the card: I think its pretty weak. It will not (really) be played in constructed (ld (which this would be the most use with - ok Mind over Matter style card would work the best) isnt that black currently and this isnt that good a splash card) and would proberly not be played in limiteted either (its worse then plain ld and ld isnt worth it in limited at all - not currently atleast).
The orginal dual lands like Tundra and Underground Sea are pretty much better than a basic land unless Blood Moon or Wastelands are around.
I really dislike the Future Sight dual lands. I'd rather have a pain land I think. There will be times when you can't lay land and the drawback will be horrible even if you have 25 land plus in the deck.
The Ravi duals are so much better. I guess I'm spoiled but I want Watery Grave, Hallowed Fountain, Sacred Foundry & friends to stay around in T2. These were the cards that got me in T2. I'll probably tune out of T2 when the Ravi duals rotate out.
UBB Rogues
UUB Faeries
RW Seismic Swans
RRR Control
Its not almost-always an underground sea. You can't tap for black during your opponent's turn and you can only tap for black if you played a land this turn (so, no black during your upkeep for echo or the like). It's also not an island - one of the big things about Underground Sea (and the shocklands) is you can tutor for them with fetches.
No life gain? Maybe you missed Psychic Drain and Ribbons of Night, but surely you didnt miss Tendrils of Corruption... Black usually has a little life gain (though blue does not).
This is the cycle made up of cycles MaRo hinted at today, and there is no reason to think that each of them couldn't be made into full cycles. It doesn't have much to do with the colors themselves (or the G/W would be the 'gainland' one).
Islands have the Basic Land type. This does not. Therefore, it cannot be strictly better. Will you probably be using them in place of islands? Yes. But people do the same with Underground Sea (which has a better case for being 'strictly better', down to being an actual island), Watery Grave, etc etc.
I like the U/B dual a lot, especially with Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth.
And the new Psychic Venom is kinda cute, too bad it doesn't kudzu itself to a new land afterwards.
<Screeechhh> Woah...when did changing the color of a card ever make it strictly better? Seriously, blue has way more ways to tap stuff down than black. If you play both colors it is better, but otherwise it is a black card.:(
Edit, also life loss <> damage
The land is awesome. It interesting flavorwise that you can't get black during your opponent's turn. These duals 10$ cards at least.
Control is the ultimate expression of power.
if something, then tap for black, if not tap for blue.
Like:
Tap: If a card was put an opponent's graveyard(a graveyard perhaps?) from play(or maybe just anywhere?) this turn add B to your mana pool, otherwise add U to your mana pool.
It's flavor would be similar to gravestorm to(the ability, not the card)
(you know sort of like 'infecting the water')
And what the basic land type does for island? Not being targeted by Wasteland? Oh, I don't think it's that great...
So, in most cases, I think UB Dual is better than an Island itself. And I keep saying it's weird that Black becomes 'hated' by this land. Why black? There's no flavour that explains this, imo.
UBB Rogues
UUB Faeries
RW Seismic Swans
RRR Control