it costs 5! dragonstorm looks at it, laughs and then reminds you that you died last turn and it never hit play. tron is like, okay you name what? okay triskelivus, win. against glare, he chumps hierarch or hedge troll or at best trades with a call token or maybe a watchwolf.
Why can't a U/W lockdown deck work for this? Signet into Grand Arbiter Augustin IV into gargoyle, condemming any drops he made in the first few turns, and going counter-happy? Remember, Augustin + Cancel = Counterspell!
Agsinst dstorm: Signet into Augustin. Suddenly, turn 4 is now turn 7-ish...
Against Tron: Name Trisk. Plus, its not to hard to counter that 9cc Hellkite with a Counterspell, or a better ForceSpike.
like meddling mage and needle are better. much, much better. end of story. will it see t2 play yes. will it t8 anything ill bet my money on no. magic isnt really about casual play now anyways
Blue says, "No!" White says, "Never!" The white Cranial Extraction has wings.
This definately says, "Never!"
I would love to see a deck based around this and clonetypecards that would lock your opponent entirely out of the game after a few turns, then beat with rocky wings. Of course, that would likely be casual, and that would mean you would lose friends. This is the kind of card that turns casual into fistfights.
It will definately see play, even if only as a sideboard option.
P.S. Its about grokking time white got something like this without paying heed to another color!
It's certainly a poweful effect, but its fragile body makes you wonder how good it will be.
However, this card will be a great SB card, and will see play in probably every white sideboard that isn't boros. This card will go for $10 easy, even if it isn't as good as Cranial Extraction or Meddling Mage.
it will be a sideboard card in a few decks at best. nothing to woo at, prolly just a crap rare in the end. 5 cc is too much. and yes, ds does laugh at this card as it already got its lethal castings a turn before this guy hits play.
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This card will definitely see play. Yes, it does cost CC3, but so does Teferi. I remember when Teferi came out, there were people saying it was awful. Well, it wasn't awful, and in some ways, Voidstone Gargoyle plays similarly to Teferi as a sort of support creature that is good against specific types of deck.
Remember, Dralnu also gets played in today's T2. And Martyrtron happily plays the six mana Proclamation. The casting cost of Voidstone Gargoyle is not that big a barrier.
[card]Grindstone[card] Gargoyle would be even cooler, because it's alliterative!
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Such hate for the card, wow! why does everyone thnk a flying 3/3 with a powerful ability at 5cc is weak. The design of it is a bit off since you want to play as a utility card early on and would rather forego the flying 3/3 body, but as is its very fairly priced. Comparing it to meddling mage and pithing needle, yes it's slower, but, in t2 it can open up some new deck types, smply saying it doesn't fit in decks that already exist is a bit short sighted. though im on the band wagon when i say i dont think it'll be played in anything extended and up.
I see this thing being the nail in the coffen for alot of decks in t2 and being a major player in U/W control decks. if anything its got potential and will easily find a side board spot in w/x in future. puting the gargoyle next to teferi or grand arbitor makes him look alot better.
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That card rocks. I just wish it was multicolored and thus costed less. But it is really sweet, i would totally play that in alot of decks. or at least sideboards.
Such hate for the card, wow! why does everyone thnk a flying 3/3 with a powerful ability at 5cc is weak. The design of it is a bit off since you want to play as a utility card early on and would rather forego the flying 3/3 body, but as is its very fairly priced. Comparing it to meddling mage and pithing needle, yes it's slower, but, in t2 it can open up some new deck types, smply saying it doesn't fit in decks that already exist is a bit short sighted. though im on the band wagon when i say i dont think it'll be played in anything extended and up.
I see this thing being the nail in the coffen for alot of decks in t2 and being a major player in U/W control decks. if anything its got potential and will easily find a side board spot in w/x in future. puting the gargoyle next to teferi or grand arbitor makes him look alot better.
Yeah, I'm just as surprised to see so much hate. Last time I checked, useful abilities on a body to beat has always been good. Pithing needle just mated with meddling mage and got thrown onto a 3/3 flier. Sounds painful, but that's the way it is. As said already, 5 mana is hardly a barrier.
I look forward to cracking these. And those who think it's no good......tell me when you crack some at the PR. I'll buy them from you on your valuation ;-).
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I'd say that it'll see plenty of play anyways, even if it is slow against Dragonstorm. Heck, does Dragonstorm always get its fourth turn play? I don't think so. It has a decent body, and with White's tricks and Blue's tricks, it will probably make room to shut down a lot of things.
And hopefully we'll have some Llanowar Elf variants in PC...
Well, it's not just Dragonstorm. The point is, good combo decks don't sit around for five turns without doing anything, then just hang their head and sigh when their opponent plays a fifth turn Gargoyle.
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it will be a sideboard card in a few decks at best. nothing to woo at, prolly just a crap rare in the end. 5 cc is too much. and yes, ds does laugh at this card as it already got its lethal castings a turn before this guy hits play.
There's a very important factor that makes me question this assumption: Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir + Mystical Teachings is already an extremely powerful combination for UWb control. Having a flashback Mystical Teachings target that can protect Teferi and beat on the air while consistently shutting down combo decks is borderline abusive.
Plus, I don't find it too much of a bad deal against other matchups; having a one-to-many answer to Glare of Subdual, Saffi Eriksdotter and Selesnya Guildmage is powerful against G/W. Being able to shut down signets against Tron decks is quite important as most of them already have trouble against more color-consistent decks anyway. Tier 0 decks tend to die to this sort of thing, and mis-sideboard trying to compensate.
The matchups where I wouldn't like to topdeck this are Boros and MAYBE Satanic Sligh, and only if they have more cards in hand than you do. Its 3-toughness kinda haunts you here, as it is unlikely you know what removal spell they're holding unless you just Remanded it.
Basically, when played correctly, this is equivalent to a Cranial Extraction that beats for 3 on the air... and can be played on your opponent's turn with some backup that's already an auto inclusion. Cranial Extraction was purely reactive, thus it was mostly sideboard material, but this can also double as a (weak) win condition, which makes it interesting.
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People hiss and grunt at Mark Rosewater for the state of the game. Few realize, though, that it is Aaron Forsythe who is directly responsible of the current state of affairs due to negligence as head of Magic R&D and a completely skewed view of the game as a whole.
So next time you want to make an avvy with Rosewater pissing on something, take a deep breath and consider pasting Forsythe's face there instead...
I can see w/u control, blink decks, w/u shapeshifter decks using this... I can see Panda Connection tossing some of these in, or any b/w discard decks (once your opponent hand is screwed, deny that one topdeck that'd wreck your day!) I can even see Boros siding this in to deal with say, Wildfire Emissary or what have you...
I don't know what else to say, really. It's a really good card, in a set that seems to have a lot of really good cards already.
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safe to say that this may just kill some combo decks in standard it is far to slow to be played in other formats though. I do think that they could have made this cost 4 mana or atleast tacked on vigilance.
This is some NICE tech for W/X Control and to a lesser extent, beats, (No Wraths for you!) The sheer versatility of this card is more than an offset to its price. Shutting down a core component of a deck is never to be underestimated.
As for formats:
Block: I don't know much about block but seeing how it is a more limited format, this is a house as it has less targets than standard.
Type 2 Defining Card Potential.
Extended: Hell's yeah this has potential, Think Control Agro Dump-Truck varient with 4 Mages and for Voidstones...Owned.
Legacy: Hey almost any good card is playable in this format, cause its the best format in the game...This has potential even here.
Vintage: Just go away and play with your damn Moxen!
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The design of it is a bit off since you want to play as a utility card early on and would rather forego the flying 3/3 body, but as is its very fairly priced.
I agree and would have rathered an enchantment, but it would be a little too dominating in today's environment as I see it. Design then would have had to up the cost since thay wanted to keep it (it's so special to us etc.) and to make the cost increase legit with out making this a horrible card, they tacked on a 3/3 flying body to make people happier.
Elspeth "we must fight to protect order and justice!"
Tezzeret "No! he will break all my artifacts and stomp my head!"
Vol "powerful dragon must be brought to heel!"
Ajani "**** this Im outta *planeswalks to lorwyn* wow what hell is this place?"
Little lorwyn goblin "this be the place of bad art and Tribes!!!"
All other Alara planeswalkers "hey where did ajani go???"
Very nice card indeed, I think it will see a little bit of play in T2 and certainly in block... too bad there isn't a card that stops triggered abilities of a card too.
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Good card. Powerful but eminently fair at the cost.
Definitely going to see some play in Standard, possibly a staple powerhouse in Block Constructed. Not going to see any play at all outside of those formats though. As people have said repeatedly, 5 CMC is a fair bit and rules it completely out for Extended, let alone the eternal formats.
I don't really why people say that this is the card the wreck combo though. At the price of 5 mana, getting this thing online in time to stop a decent combo deck is going to be pushing too hard. The turns that you'll need to set up your mana would be better spent crafting a hand to really stop the deck, as far as I can see.
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Than and then are very different words.
"I'm going to have more than Natalie Portman" is quite different from "I'm going to have more, then Natalie Portman".
Does anyone else think that this would fit really well into Guildpact?
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I don't really why people say that this is the card the wreck combo though. At the price of 5 mana, getting this thing online in time to stop a decent combo deck is going to be pushing too hard. The turns that you'll need to set up your mana would be better spent crafting a hand to really stop the deck, as far as I can see.
I agree. It's good against Snow White, but Dragonstorm will either go off before you, or just dig up for a Remand before you hit 5 mana (that's without counter backup on the Gargoyle player's part). MartyrTron can counter it, sometimes with buyback, with Spell Burst by that time. It's an okay sideboard, but I just don't see it being that great at the moment. It's just too narrow.
It'll probably see play in Block Constructed, though.
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Agsinst dstorm: Signet into Augustin. Suddenly, turn 4 is now turn 7-ish...
Against Tron: Name Trisk. Plus, its not to hard to counter that 9cc Hellkite with a Counterspell, or a better Force Spike.
This definately says, "Never!"
I would love to see a deck based around this and clone type cards that would lock your opponent entirely out of the game after a few turns, then beat with rocky wings. Of course, that would likely be casual, and that would mean you would lose friends. This is the kind of card that turns casual into fistfights.
It will definately see play, even if only as a sideboard option.
P.S. Its about grokking time white got something like this without paying heed to another color!
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Banner by Topher!
However, this card will be a great SB card, and will see play in probably every white sideboard that isn't boros. This card will go for $10 easy, even if it isn't as good as Cranial Extraction or Meddling Mage.
I love the card.
Remember, Dralnu also gets played in today's T2. And Martyrtron happily plays the six mana Proclamation. The casting cost of Voidstone Gargoyle is not that big a barrier.
[card]Grindstone[card] Gargoyle would be even cooler, because it's alliterative!
- Jon Finkel believes in maintaining a healthy, balanced diet. He gets all his fiber from eating Magic cards for breakfast, and all his protein from eating Magic players for lunch.
Unless of course, the gargoyle player plays mana acceleration.
But naaa, nobody plays that.
And obviously dragonstorm always goes off turn 4.
[/sarcasm]
I see this thing being the nail in the coffen for alot of decks in t2 and being a major player in U/W control decks. if anything its got potential and will easily find a side board spot in w/x in future. puting the gargoyle next to teferi or grand arbitor makes him look alot better.
Thanks for the Sig and Avatar Fogatog @EPIC GRAPHICS
Yeah, I'm just as surprised to see so much hate. Last time I checked, useful abilities on a body to beat has always been good. Pithing needle just mated with meddling mage and got thrown onto a 3/3 flier. Sounds painful, but that's the way it is. As said already, 5 mana is hardly a barrier.
I look forward to cracking these. And those who think it's no good......tell me when you crack some at the PR. I'll buy them from you on your valuation ;-).
Drop by my Helpdesk if you have any questions/concerns on the Limited forum.
Excited for M13 Limited? What do you think the format will look like? Head over to the limited forum and let us know what you think.
And hopefully we'll have some Llanowar Elf variants in PC...
There's a very important factor that makes me question this assumption: Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir + Mystical Teachings is already an extremely powerful combination for UWb control. Having a flashback Mystical Teachings target that can protect Teferi and beat on the air while consistently shutting down combo decks is borderline abusive.
Plus, I don't find it too much of a bad deal against other matchups; having a one-to-many answer to Glare of Subdual, Saffi Eriksdotter and Selesnya Guildmage is powerful against G/W. Being able to shut down signets against Tron decks is quite important as most of them already have trouble against more color-consistent decks anyway. Tier 0 decks tend to die to this sort of thing, and mis-sideboard trying to compensate.
The matchups where I wouldn't like to topdeck this are Boros and MAYBE Satanic Sligh, and only if they have more cards in hand than you do. Its 3-toughness kinda haunts you here, as it is unlikely you know what removal spell they're holding unless you just Remanded it.
Basically, when played correctly, this is equivalent to a Cranial Extraction that beats for 3 on the air... and can be played on your opponent's turn with some backup that's already an auto inclusion. Cranial Extraction was purely reactive, thus it was mostly sideboard material, but this can also double as a (weak) win condition, which makes it interesting.
So next time you want to make an avvy with Rosewater pissing on something, take a deep breath and consider pasting Forsythe's face there instead...
The bullet of justice caps evil's a$$.
I don't know what else to say, really. It's a really good card, in a set that seems to have a lot of really good cards already.
~In the beginning, there was nothing, which exploded.~
Fu's Cab - Retired! ||| Trade thread dead for now; returning soon!
One day I will alt. art my Jace, The Mind Sculptors into 'Mentok! The Mind Takers!'
Quotes
As for formats:
Block: I don't know much about block but seeing how it is a more limited format, this is a house as it has less targets than standard.
Type 2 Defining Card Potential.
Extended: Hell's yeah this has potential, Think Control Agro Dump-Truck varient with 4 Mages and for Voidstones...Owned.
Legacy: Hey almost any good card is playable in this format, cause its the best format in the game...This has potential even here.
Vintage: Just go away and play with your damn Moxen!
Genesis Complete!!! 306/306
(Land centered mechanics Affinity for lands; Synergy with lands (Affinity for activated abilities)
(Extended-ish Power level) PM me if you are interested
Awakening ?/180: Features Domain, with more land comes more mastery over the elements. Channel and Growth are expanded making landcasting more interesting.
I agree and would have rathered an enchantment, but it would be a little too dominating in today's environment as I see it. Design then would have had to up the cost since thay wanted to keep it (it's so special to us etc.) and to make the cost increase legit with out making this a horrible card, they tacked on a 3/3 flying body to make people happier.
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Mono white with this, Akroma, Ascendant guy, Gauntlets of Power, and Sacred Mesa.
This great banner was made by Topher
Definitely going to see some play in Standard, possibly a staple powerhouse in Block Constructed. Not going to see any play at all outside of those formats though. As people have said repeatedly, 5 CMC is a fair bit and rules it completely out for Extended, let alone the eternal formats.
I don't really why people say that this is the card the wreck combo though. At the price of 5 mana, getting this thing online in time to stop a decent combo deck is going to be pushing too hard. The turns that you'll need to set up your mana would be better spent crafting a hand to really stop the deck, as far as I can see.
"I'm going to have more than Natalie Portman" is quite different from "I'm going to have more, then Natalie Portman".
Thanks to Topher for the incredible sig banner!
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I agree. It's good against Snow White, but Dragonstorm will either go off before you, or just dig up for a Remand before you hit 5 mana (that's without counter backup on the Gargoyle player's part). MartyrTron can counter it, sometimes with buyback, with Spell Burst by that time. It's an okay sideboard, but I just don't see it being that great at the moment. It's just too narrow.
It'll probably see play in Block Constructed, though.