Bah, I guess Windreaver would be only a 1 of in my deck, maybe 2. Forces SB choice of whether keeping removal that only kills 1/2 creatures in my deck, or take them out altogether.
Still, I wanted Windreaver as my sole win condition. Now it's impossible :/
Both of these look very fun. I personally love the -4/-4 for 3, always have, always will. And cheaper shadow ophidians will always be welcome
At the end of Mark's article there was a rules link which included:
420.5n If a permanent has both a +1/+1 counter and a -1/-1 counter on it, N +1/+1 and N -1/-1 counters are removed from it, where N is the smaller of the number of +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters on it.
Have we found any cards dealing with -1/-1 counters? Are there purples which do?
am i the only one who thinks its weird that the "purple" cards havent been mentioned once? not in the prerelease primer, not anywhere.. I mean i would think if people are going to the prerelease they should know what to expect.. like opening a booster pack and seeing 12 new cards, and 3 old ones with the old frames.. that is kinda need to know information.. lol
the spells are of a great power level indeed, I dunno if the removal is constructed worthy, but I can see the shadow guy being played big time into an aggro control, or even a control build.
I'm actually quite concerned for the health of standard as a whole, the cards sure pack a punch.
The naysayers have no effect on me, thank you very much
You should not doubt yourself so. I foresee decks cutting copies of Putrefy and Mortify to fit more Sudden Death in. Sure, Putrefy/Mortify have more utility and can kill anything, but only if they resolve. This can take out a Magus of the Disk, a Jaya, I mean just about any mid level threat without fear of reprisal. Grade A top class spell. Hell, I see it getting played in 4-ofs in extended. Here I was thinking Wipe Away and Krosan Grip would change the format; this could potentially wreck it.
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"One skilled at battle takes a stand in the ground of no defeat
And so does not lose the enemy's defeat.
Therefore, the victorious military is first victorious and after that does battle.
The defeated military first does battle and after that seeks victory."
If Sudden Death wants to destroy a creature with toughness four or less, no Giant Growth is going to stop it. No Shunt is going to make you destroy one of your creatures instead. And nobody is going to counter it. Those pesky blue mages can’t stop something they can’t respond to.
Hints that maybe the green Sudden card is Sudden Growth, or the blue Sudden card is a blue form of Shunt? It just seemed so ODD that he would use those PARTICULAR examples, rather than straightforwardly state the spell couldn't be countered.
Shadow man: i like it, theres nothing wrong with attacking w/ a thought courier and getting the ability.
Sudden death: I don't have a response to this one.... ok bad joke i'm sorry, anyway very solid, but does standard really need more removal? this is by far the heaviest control environment of all time. There aren't going to be any creatures without protection that will live more than the turn its comes into play.
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Currently Playing (T2) WUWUWUControl WUGWUGCounterpost Casual
Goblins
Seedborn Muse
Spiritcraft
If a decent madness counter is printed ( or circ is purple ) then this guy will not be as nice as a thought courier.
The removal is nice. Real nice. like, "kill your whatever-the-heck-I-Want" nice. Hakkon likes it, because after its jumpknight hits their attacker, you can end it with this. Or, just end a smaller critter. Definatly solid.
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Quote from RanDomino »
I think you mean "PoN", but it seems to me that "PwN" is more appropriate
(the 'w' stands for 'win', I think)
Quote from Tang4433 »
I think that WoTC felt that a lot of the players thought Standard was becoming mundane and a joke from all the nuked cards floating around. R&D took a vacation, and MaRo just started reprinting things.
Did anybody look at the Rules stuff MaRo threw out there? It mentions -1/-1 counters removing +1/+1 counters from permanents. Awesome. It seems -1/-1 is back, and It rapes graft!
Ok, this is starting to get a little ridiculous. Split Second is officially nuts, and Sudden Death is amazing...
Shadow Looter is a really cool card as well, and will probably see play. It would see more play if there was any efficient equipment to run it with, but with Jitte rotating out and Warhammer being too expensive, that somewhat makes aggressive Shadow decks less of a problem. I kinda wish that wasn't true. I would love to play U/x Aggro, and this card would play perfectly in U/G Plax. If Madness needed another 2cc madness outlet, and thought that Merfolk Looter was far too controllish, this card fits the bill perfectly. Could probably squeeze 2x into Extended decklists just to make sure you have a 1st turn Madness enabler. It doesn't work half as well as Careful Study, Wild Mongrel and Aquamoeba however.
Did anyone else catch that the FAQ is not going to be until Sept. 25th, AFTER the prerelease? Is this normal? I think it probably has to deal with the purple Time Spiral symbols, and they are simply hoping that no one notices them in their packs during the prerelease. How is that going to work this weekend? Are they not going to be legal for Limited? It just seems really strange...again...
Hints that maybe the green Sudden card is Sudden Growth, or the blue Sudden card is a blue form of Shunt? It just seemed so ODD that he would use those PARTICULAR examples, rather than straightforwardly state the spell couldn't be countered.
Naw, I think he's just emphasizing what the card is capable of with some examples. Wordiness to impress the masses. If he just out and out said "it can't be countered.", he wouldn't be a good writer.
Did anyone else catch that the FAQ is not going to be until Sept. 25th, AFTER the prerelease? Is this normal? I think it probably has to deal with the purple Time Spiral symbols, and they are simply hoping that no one notices them in their packs during the prerelease. How is that going to work this weekend? Are they not going to be legal for Limited? It just seems really strange...again...
Are you sure?
I read that there would be 'more on wednesday', which is...normal.
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News and spoiler contributor for GatheringMagic.com
From the Rules Primer that MaRo and BDM linked to:
The more comprehensive Time Spiral Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) document will be posted on magicthegathering.com on Monday, September 25, 2006. Time Spiral cards will appear in the Gatherer database and the Oracle card reference at that time.
HOLY ***!! That Sudden Death is what I call removal, I'm quite impressed by it, for just a meager more B you get another -1/-1 and über-uncounterability over Last Gasp, between this, Mortify and Putrefy, plus Last Gasp and hell knows what more, the upcoming T2 doesn't look like a good place to be a creature of less than 3/3 size or whithout pro-black.
The il-Kor dude sounds like a good pal for Drifter il-Dal, maybe a U/x Shadow deck will be viable, I hope so.
Sudden Death will change Magic as we know it. It kills tog, it kills Morphling, it kills a lot of stuff that was hard or impossible to kill before. It gets around counters. It just is WOW.
As far as absolutley no mention of Purple Cards so far, damn you Wizards! I am going to make an Ass of myself at the pre-release. Once the judge finishes his usual speel, and asks if we have any questions I will stand up and ask "What about the purple cards? Can we play with those?" then they will all stare at me and it will be awkward, until they open the packs, then I will feel bad for spoiling this "wonderful" (lol) surprise.
Sudden Death I like very much and want four of them at the prerelease if I go...
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Do threads in this forum ever not get hijacked by the magical invisible hand of the market guys?
as a veteran of prereleases, now that i think about it, a room wide announcement that says "all cards with the purple expansion symbol can (or cannot) be used in your decks" would probably explain it to everyone..
just seems weird, that in the run up to the release of a big set like this, they wouldnt mention one of the biggest selling points...
Originally posted by Kirblar
Anyone else hate that Morphs can flip vs. Sudden Death?
Almost everyone i know and a few Threads i've read people knew that u can morph in responseto Split Second spells Morph don't use the STACK that's why u can use it.
So far, all the shadow creatures previewed have these effects that make them great attackers. I hope there's some anti-shadow cards, because "devastating effects when attacking" does not equal "good or fun forms of interaction" which is what the designers/developers said they wanted to do when they brought shadow back. I mean, it's just not a whole lot of fun if you're sitting there being able to do nothing about these unblockable shadow creatures (don't believe me? play Tempest block draft...)
Did anybody look at the Rules stuff MaRo threw out there? It mentions -1/-1 counters removing +1/+1 counters from permanents. Awesome. It seems -1/-1 is back, and It rapes graft!
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Still, I wanted Windreaver as my sole win condition. Now it's impossible :/
At the end of Mark's article there was a rules link which included:
Have we found any cards dealing with -1/-1 counters? Are there purples which do?
I totally agree with you. Some smells fishy.
The Looter is going to be good in limited and maybe in haakon decks.
And so does not lose the enemy's defeat.
Therefore, the victorious military is first victorious and after that does battle.
The defeated military first does battle and after that seeks victory."
Hints that maybe the green Sudden card is Sudden Growth, or the blue Sudden card is a blue form of Shunt? It just seemed so ODD that he would use those PARTICULAR examples, rather than straightforwardly state the spell couldn't be countered.
Sudden death: I don't have a response to this one.... ok bad joke i'm sorry, anyway very solid, but does standard really need more removal? this is by far the heaviest control environment of all time. There aren't going to be any creatures without protection that will live more than the turn its comes into play.
WUWUWUControl
WUGWUGCounterpost
Casual
Goblins
Seedborn Muse
Spiritcraft
And it only costs one more than Last Gasp. This will become a staple without question.
The removal is nice. Real nice. like, "kill your whatever-the-heck-I-Want" nice. Hakkon likes it, because after its jumpknight hits their attacker, you can end it with this. Or, just end a smaller critter. Definatly solid.
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I <3 -1/-1 countes
Shadow Looter is a really cool card as well, and will probably see play. It would see more play if there was any efficient equipment to run it with, but with Jitte rotating out and Warhammer being too expensive, that somewhat makes aggressive Shadow decks less of a problem. I kinda wish that wasn't true. I would love to play U/x Aggro, and this card would play perfectly in U/G Plax. If Madness needed another 2cc madness outlet, and thought that Merfolk Looter was far too controllish, this card fits the bill perfectly. Could probably squeeze 2x into Extended decklists just to make sure you have a 1st turn Madness enabler. It doesn't work half as well as Careful Study, Wild Mongrel and Aquamoeba however.
Did anyone else catch that the FAQ is not going to be until Sept. 25th, AFTER the prerelease? Is this normal? I think it probably has to deal with the purple Time Spiral symbols, and they are simply hoping that no one notices them in their packs during the prerelease. How is that going to work this weekend? Are they not going to be legal for Limited? It just seems really strange...again...
Naw, I think he's just emphasizing what the card is capable of with some examples. Wordiness to impress the masses. If he just out and out said "it can't be countered.", he wouldn't be a good writer.
the new and improved last gasp is great.
Eladamri
Are you sure?
I read that there would be 'more on wednesday', which is...normal.
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they made a windreaver-killer
they'll have to give me a */5+ creature for my UW deck...
or i'll be mad at wotc
What is the meaning of this!!!
The il-Kor dude sounds like a good pal for Drifter il-Dal, maybe a U/x Shadow deck will be viable, I hope so.
Best removal in a long long time.
Sudden Death I like very much and want four of them at the prerelease if I go...
just seems weird, that in the run up to the release of a big set like this, they wouldnt mention one of the biggest selling points...
Almost everyone i know and a few Threads i've read people knew that u can morph in responseto Split Second spells Morph don't use the STACK that's why u can use it.
There is a discussion about the -1/-1 counters at http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=52208.
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