I really don't see how people are arguing that it can be so easily spot removed, when the ideal set-up comes from it being put in play via turn 4 Goryo's and reaking havoc. It rather seems like they're quite pwned and they'll lose 2-3 lands.
If the opponent has spot removal, I can get rid of it with discard. This guy isn't going to dominate standard, but its not total crap. It's much better than Chorus, Sisters, Borborgymos, Szadek anyway. Even if it was total crap, at least its fun crap instead of boring crap ala Borborgymos/Chorus. Totally fits the theme of the guild, and is a 7/6 tramply flier for 6.
Wow... That's craziness. That's going to be awesome. I'd love to see just one guy win one serious tourney game with that. I mean... wow.... you just gotta build a deck that can at least sorta deal with it, hit once, and that's pretty much game.
You sac your lands too you know??? People are either going to be land saccers, because they don't need too many, or they're going to be saccing only a few, because the mana drawbacks are painful. But yo're gonna know which kind of person you're dealing with by the time you play Rakdos... so...
And after the first hit, it doesn't change the fact that they're losing *so many permanents*.
Question: Do you guys suppose there'll be many other Demons in the set, or any at all?
I think there may only be 1 or 2 Demons. Orb of Insight may prove me wrong though. But I think the reference to the Kamigawa demons, suggested that he doesn't have a lot of relation with his own set.
An interesting clarification: If you have lots of Demons, it actually means that (a) you can't sacrifice them, meaning your probably going to be saccing more noncreature permanents, but (b) you'll be saccing less permanents over as though they weren't Demons.
Because of (a), it isn't automatic that one would run Demons with Rakdos. Heck, I may want to sac creatures to the guy! Better than stunting my mana development....
And, about Experiment Kraj:
O
M
G
!!!
I just wish it didn't cost so much Green. It's such a Blue ability! In fact... it's sorta both colours, meaning I wish it was hybrid. At least then I could finally run a Quicksilver Elemental without screwing over my mana. I mean.... why? I don't care about the 4/6 body.
Anyone who cares about the +1/+1 counter ability and the 4/6-ness isn't the sort of person who cares about the activated ability copying.
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as mentioned many times before, 0 other demons appear in the orb, rakdos is a love/hate card, really though, spikes, let timmy and johnny have their fun, and be more tolerant of the so called "bad cards" remember that tournaments aren't the only way to play magic.;)
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Pretty great idea. Yay to drak agnord for finding a way to rid of the pesky blockers.
The Krag is going to be good, especially combined with Graft. Without any abilities, he's still pretty good at screwing with combat. And stuff like Sinstriker's Will or anything that says "equipped/enchanted creature has blah" makes it slightly more humorous.
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Always accepting ideas for a new title! PM me with your ideas.
Tourney powerhouse? *shrugs* We'll see, probably not. However, he positively drips flavor and coolness for the majority of players. It isn't uncastable at 6 mana, particularly if the rakdos get _any_ sort of mana acceleration. Last I checked a 7/6 flying trampling creature for 6 mana isn't a bad deal. At worst.. it sits back and you lose nothing as it eats any attacking critter, though that's rather against philosophy for the Rakdos.
There are various ways that you can try to play around and protect Rakdos:
1) Shimatsu: Not great, but I've got a soft spot for him. Continuing on. (1)
2) Blessed Breath and Variants: Odds are if you're opponent's going to try to use any of the myriad of targetted removal they will try to do it _after_ you've attacked, so that they get the most advantage. Besides, not that hard to add in a light splash. Again, somewhat anti-thematic, but effective.
3) Playing a purely balls to the walls aggressive strategy. Rakdos should have some of the most efficient critters in terms of power/casting cost. Keep throwing them out and force your opponent to answer them, they have to run out of removal sometime. When they do, that's where Rakdos steps in.
4) Play stuff you want to sacrifice, or play gravepact. Related to Shimatsu above, but a bit more serious. Last I heard Hatching Plans was a non-demon Permenant, as are Zubera. Golgari Thug would be happy to return something that's already died. Homura, Human Ascendant would also like a bit of love, and to give Rakdos the fire breathing he craves. Mindslicer also happens to fit the no cards in hand philosophy _and_ also happens to strip your opponent of having a hand. Rukh Egg provides you an early blocker and a flier after you sac it. Tesya is happy to be around to recycle whatever black creatures you may have sacrificed. There are others, and all of the examples listed above certainly are not tourney caliber plays.
There are a number of decks out there that are doing well (Owling mine, I'm looking at you in particular) because of interactions between cards that most people would otherwise not play. (Why would I want to give my opponent extra cards?)
Not every card will be a hard to be put down and ride to victory, some will require that you build around them. But when you do, you will get richly rewarded (Ebony Owl Netsuke).
Just my extended 2 cents re: Rakdos.
(1) I built a mono-red Shimatsu/Cunning Bandit Arcane deck for Kamigawa block and enjoyed modest success with it.
Honestly I would just play agro
:symu::symb::symr: dimir/rakdos style of gameplay seems good to play
Seal of Fire, Rats, Doppleganger, Lyzoda, Infiltraitor, Rakdos with just removal and some counter or bounce.
I like Rakdos though he might not see much play in seriousness, not as much as Lyzoda. Kraj is fun imo. Especially when he can get alot of activated abilities with somecards like Birds of ParidiseSelesyna Guildmage etc. It goes on and on. Very exciting.
[card=Dismal Failure]"Two magi could trade spells all day and never crown a victor.
The real battle is not one of power but of will.
If your confidence breaks, so too shall you." —Venser[/card]
Both cards look pretty bad in constructed terms. Mutant is too slow and does next to nothing really. Maybe with 6 mana one would want to play a decent finisher like Keiga. Keiga is not so hot anymore but the more important point here is that both Kodama of the North Tree and Meloku cost one mana less. Untap with meloku and the game is usually yours.. untap with this mutant and nothing really happens.
Rakdos is actually the better of the two if you think of it a little bit. He is asking to be putrefyed/mortifyed, but 7/6 for 6 mana and with a somewhat powerful effect is nice. Maybe there could be even a chance to make his drawback as an advantage. Without that chance, he simply put just sucks in constructed..luckily he has a trample..
Rakdos as a big hell of a monster there
add blue with a simic guildmage and yuor opponent will cry for god's sake
as for the simic, you-you, you need to boost an opponents's creature and tap yours to be able to do the same thing. Too slow, but therefore if played right, excelent
always depends what your opponent is playing, though
if he plays counter/mill with no creatures it's as good as a treefolk (3/6)
Do not double post.
Use the edit button to add content to your post instead.
Guys, there is just more to Magic than all the tournaments and stuff like that. These guys are BOTH wonderful, originally designed cards. My casual playgroup would just LOVE these guys and definately play with them.
So what if they're not what you Spikes want; they're great cards I think.
I have to say I love both of these creatures. Kraj is very intesting, and should be fun regardless of playability. Rakados is definitly badass, and fits the guild's theme so very well. He will be esspecially interesting in type 4 (as all guildleaders are), where you can rely on not having any other permanents and just beat down with your big-ol demon.
Kraj is very dependent on what creatures are being played. It is a nice counter to windweaver (or whatever that thing is called), and could have some intesting possibilities. Regardless, its cool, one of the coolest guildleaders (well, non-color related guild legends, Golgari alters the usual setup as well).
Both of these will be going immediatly into my type 4 stack. I doubt that they will see play anywhere else, but aside from the Ghost Council and Razia, has any guildlegend really seen that much play? These cards are supposed to be the fun ones. I woulnd't ever hold my breath on a multi-colored legend card being that good.
Qasur, yeah, I stand corrected. At least according to the Kamigawa FAQ, if you copy a flip card you can flip in the future if the conditions are met; that doesn't tell me if you gain the activated ability what that does, however. One possible scenario is that if you gain the ability and would then 'flip', you will now gain the flipped activated abilities if the card has any. Another, more simple answer is that flipping a card without a flip side does nothing special. I'll dig through the archives and see if there is any listing of this.
Ah, here's the relevant text: Q: What happens when a Quicksilver Elemental gains all activated abilities of a Flip creature, and then meets the flip criteria? Does it flip itself to no effect? –Roy A: You'll have a flipped Quicksilver Elemental that has all the same characteristics. Being flipped doesn't matter unless there's a set of flip characteristics to apply.
So the answer is that nothing happens if Kraj copies Jushi and would flip.
If you can get Rakdos out early, he can really be a threat in Standard.
Black has cards like Blackmail, Distress, Coercion etc. Kill their removal before you drop Mr. Rakdos.
The faster the better. We might be surprised how much action Rakdos sees.
I really hope so, but getting rid of removal is not the ONLY thing that prevents me from wanting to play this card. There is also the added downside of having to sac half of my non-Demon permanents. What I really hope is that there is some way to abuse this by making non-creature permanents Demons or something. That, and/or having some cheap demons (the cheapest in Magic history were in Kamigawa block with Razorjaw Oni, Scourge of Numai, and Yukora the Prisoner, but 4cc isn't exactly "cheap" when you want to have a board full of demons when Rakdos swings.) A couple of good 2cc and 3cc demons to round down the curve so that Rakdos can minimize his downside a bit when he swings and gets killed.
*EDIT* I just thought of a really lame combo. Play Rakdos the Defiler. Then next turn play Shimatsu the Bloodcloaked, sac'ing all of your non-Demons. It minimizes the downside... but encourages really bad play. Oh well. I'm really really trying to make Rakdos good. It seems like it could be abused if the right cards exist in Ravnica.
Rakdos reminds me of a long overlooked Gem from Ice age Pox! You of course have the advantage of being able to plan around Rakdos' draw back easily, where as your opponent has merely a turn to figure out a way to stop him or lose.
This is the sort of card that is a swing-hit-and-win card, I've been playing quick mock-up build of a deck running a full compliment of Rakdos, and whenever he's hit play and survived through his first atack I've won easily.
Im not the first person to say this but spot removal for Rakdos isn't even his biggest problem.
In a meta where Ghost Council and Scorched Rusalka are everywhere, hes just going to get chump blocked and then the chump will be sacked prior to damage.
You lose half your permanents. GG no RE.
*Ahem, It has both Flying and Trample, I don't know how those Councils and Rusalka's are blocking him. Please read the card/thread first next time please
Im not the first person to say this but spot removal for Rakdos isn't even his biggest problem.
In a meta where Ghost Council and Scorched Rusalka are everywhere, hes just going to get chump blocked and then the chump will be sacked prior to damage.
You lose half your permanents. GG no RE.
Perhaps you missed "Trample?"
Unless the chump blocker has toughness 6+, Rakdos will smack your opponent and they'll have to sac, too.
I guess I could be wrong but I was under the impression that a creature had to actually assign lethal damage to a creature
before trample damage is carried over to the player.
I suppose flying is still some sort of evasion but it’s not really that great anymore.
I guess I could be wrong but I was under the impression that a creature had to actually assign lethal damage to a creature
before trample damage is carried over to the player.
That's right. So if it's blocked by a 1-toughness creature, you assign one to the creature and six to the opponent. Saccing chump-blockers used to work, but they changed that quite some time ago.
I personally look forward to giving Rakdos double strike. My playgroup should let me get away with that once
I suppose flying is still some sort of evasion but it’s not really that great anymore.
Flying + trample, OTOH, is quite good. How many fliers with toughness 7 are there to hold this guy off for even a turn? And how many run-of-the-mill fliers would you have to throw at him?
That's right. So if it's blocked by a 1-toughness creature, you assign one to the creature and six to the opponent. Saccing chump-blockers used to work, but they changed that quite some time ago.
I personally look forward to giving Rakdos double strike. My playgroup should let me get away with that once
Flying + trample, OTOH, is quite good. How many fliers with toughness 7 are there to hold this guy off for even a turn? And how many run-of-the-mill fliers would you have to throw at him?
I really don't want to drag this out (I am only doing so for my own clarification on rules) and your probably right.
But if my opponent attacks with a Jitte equipped creature and I have a
Sakura-Tribe Elder out. He declares attackers then I declare blockers
and my Tribe Elder blocks his Jitte equipped creature.
Then my opponent will probably ask "damage on the stack?"
To which I will respond "No I'm going to sack my Elder prior to damage."
The effect is that he will get no Jitte counters.
If a creature with trample doesn't need to damage a creature anymore to hit a player I really need to brush up on my rules.
If the opponent has spot removal, I can get rid of it with discard. This guy isn't going to dominate standard, but its not total crap. It's much better than Chorus, Sisters, Borborgymos, Szadek anyway. Even if it was total crap, at least its fun crap instead of boring crap ala Borborgymos/Chorus. Totally fits the theme of the guild, and is a 7/6 tramply flier for 6.
-Ryoma Echizen
O
M
G
!!!
Now to post content....
Wow... That's craziness. That's going to be awesome. I'd love to see just one guy win one serious tourney game with that. I mean... wow.... you just gotta build a deck that can at least sorta deal with it, hit once, and that's pretty much game.
You sac your lands too you know??? People are either going to be land saccers, because they don't need too many, or they're going to be saccing only a few, because the mana drawbacks are painful. But yo're gonna know which kind of person you're dealing with by the time you play Rakdos... so...
And after the first hit, it doesn't change the fact that they're losing *so many permanents*.
Question: Do you guys suppose there'll be many other Demons in the set, or any at all?
I think there may only be 1 or 2 Demons. Orb of Insight may prove me wrong though. But I think the reference to the Kamigawa demons, suggested that he doesn't have a lot of relation with his own set.
An interesting clarification: If you have lots of Demons, it actually means that (a) you can't sacrifice them, meaning your probably going to be saccing more noncreature permanents, but (b) you'll be saccing less permanents over as though they weren't Demons.
Because of (a), it isn't automatic that one would run Demons with Rakdos. Heck, I may want to sac creatures to the guy! Better than stunting my mana development....
And, about Experiment Kraj:
O
M
G
!!!
I just wish it didn't cost so much Green. It's such a Blue ability! In fact... it's sorta both colours, meaning I wish it was hybrid. At least then I could finally run a Quicksilver Elemental without screwing over my mana. I mean.... why? I don't care about the 4/6 body.
Anyone who cares about the +1/+1 counter ability and the 4/6-ness isn't the sort of person who cares about the activated ability copying.
Awesome avatar provided by Krashbot @ [Epic Graphics].
I dunno. He's pretty bad in my opinion.
The Krag is going to be good, especially combined with Graft. Without any abilities, he's still pretty good at screwing with combat. And stuff like Sinstriker's Will or anything that says "equipped/enchanted creature has blah" makes it slightly more humorous.
Tourney powerhouse? *shrugs* We'll see, probably not. However, he positively drips flavor and coolness for the majority of players. It isn't uncastable at 6 mana, particularly if the rakdos get _any_ sort of mana acceleration. Last I checked a 7/6 flying trampling creature for 6 mana isn't a bad deal. At worst.. it sits back and you lose nothing as it eats any attacking critter, though that's rather against philosophy for the Rakdos.
There are various ways that you can try to play around and protect Rakdos:
1) Shimatsu: Not great, but I've got a soft spot for him. Continuing on. (1)
2) Blessed Breath and Variants: Odds are if you're opponent's going to try to use any of the myriad of targetted removal they will try to do it _after_ you've attacked, so that they get the most advantage. Besides, not that hard to add in a light splash. Again, somewhat anti-thematic, but effective.
3) Playing a purely balls to the walls aggressive strategy. Rakdos should have some of the most efficient critters in terms of power/casting cost. Keep throwing them out and force your opponent to answer them, they have to run out of removal sometime. When they do, that's where Rakdos steps in.
4) Play stuff you want to sacrifice, or play gravepact. Related to Shimatsu above, but a bit more serious. Last I heard Hatching Plans was a non-demon Permenant, as are Zubera. Golgari Thug would be happy to return something that's already died. Homura, Human Ascendant would also like a bit of love, and to give Rakdos the fire breathing he craves. Mindslicer also happens to fit the no cards in hand philosophy _and_ also happens to strip your opponent of having a hand. Rukh Egg provides you an early blocker and a flier after you sac it. Tesya is happy to be around to recycle whatever black creatures you may have sacrificed. There are others, and all of the examples listed above certainly are not tourney caliber plays.
There are a number of decks out there that are doing well (Owling mine, I'm looking at you in particular) because of interactions between cards that most people would otherwise not play. (Why would I want to give my opponent extra cards?)
Not every card will be a hard to be put down and ride to victory, some will require that you build around them. But when you do, you will get richly rewarded (Ebony Owl Netsuke).
Just my extended 2 cents re: Rakdos.
(1) I built a mono-red Shimatsu/Cunning Bandit Arcane deck for Kamigawa block and enjoyed modest success with it.
L2 Judge & Store Owner
Dimir Doppleganger + removing Dimir Infiltraitor + attacking + before damage remove Rakdos the Defiler= byebye to opponets perms.
Honestly I would just play agro
:symu::symb::symr: dimir/rakdos style of gameplay seems good to play
Seal of Fire, Rats, Doppleganger, Lyzoda, Infiltraitor, Rakdos with just removal and some counter or bounce.
I like Rakdos though he might not see much play in seriousness, not as much as Lyzoda. Kraj is fun imo. Especially when he can get alot of activated abilities with somecards like Birds of Paridise Selesyna Guildmage etc. It goes on and on. Very exciting.
:symr::symu: Reality Bites
:symr::symu: Delver Cyclops
:symr::symu: Niv Control EDH
:symg::symw: Sigarda EDH
The real battle is not one of power but of will.
If your confidence breaks, so too shall you."
—Venser[/card]
Rakdos is actually the better of the two if you think of it a little bit. He is asking to be putrefyed/mortifyed, but 7/6 for 6 mana and with a somewhat powerful effect is nice. Maybe there could be even a chance to make his drawback as an advantage. Without that chance, he simply put just sucks in constructed..luckily he has a trample..
I leave limited/casual comments to someone else.
add blue with a simic guildmage and yuor opponent will cry for god's sake
as for the simic, you-you, you need to boost an opponents's creature and tap yours to be able to do the same thing. Too slow, but therefore if played right, excelent
always depends what your opponent is playing, though
if he plays counter/mill with no creatures it's as good as a treefolk (3/6)
Do not double post.
Use the edit button to add content to your post instead.
So what if they're not what you Spikes want; they're great cards I think.
Kraj is very dependent on what creatures are being played. It is a nice counter to windweaver (or whatever that thing is called), and could have some intesting possibilities. Regardless, its cool, one of the coolest guildleaders (well, non-color related guild legends, Golgari alters the usual setup as well).
Both of these will be going immediatly into my type 4 stack. I doubt that they will see play anywhere else, but aside from the Ghost Council and Razia, has any guildlegend really seen that much play? These cards are supposed to be the fun ones. I woulnd't ever hold my breath on a multi-colored legend card being that good.
and kraj sucks.
1 - who will like to play against kraj(frustrating)
2 - it's too slow
3 - it's not that powerful
http://www.starcitygames.com/php/news/article/10197.html
http://www.starcitygames.com/php/news/article/10207.html
http://www.starcitygames.com/php/news/article/10223.html
read in that order they were written by carl writtmen or "crazy carl" the inventor 1st is part 1 2nd part 2 and 3rd part 3.
Ah, here's the relevant text:
Q: What happens when a Quicksilver Elemental gains all activated abilities of a Flip creature, and then meets the flip criteria? Does it flip itself to no effect? –Roy
A: You'll have a flipped Quicksilver Elemental that has all the same characteristics. Being flipped doesn't matter unless there's a set of flip characteristics to apply.
So the answer is that nothing happens if Kraj copies Jushi and would flip.
Try to keep some content in your posts o.k?
Black has cards like Blackmail, Distress, Coercion etc. Kill their removal before you drop Mr. Rakdos.
The faster the better. We might be surprised how much action Rakdos sees.
I'm learning to make alters.
I really hope so, but getting rid of removal is not the ONLY thing that prevents me from wanting to play this card. There is also the added downside of having to sac half of my non-Demon permanents. What I really hope is that there is some way to abuse this by making non-creature permanents Demons or something. That, and/or having some cheap demons (the cheapest in Magic history were in Kamigawa block with Razorjaw Oni, Scourge of Numai, and Yukora the Prisoner, but 4cc isn't exactly "cheap" when you want to have a board full of demons when Rakdos swings.) A couple of good 2cc and 3cc demons to round down the curve so that Rakdos can minimize his downside a bit when he swings and gets killed.
*EDIT* I just thought of a really lame combo. Play Rakdos the Defiler. Then next turn play Shimatsu the Bloodcloaked, sac'ing all of your non-Demons. It minimizes the downside... but encourages really bad play. Oh well. I'm really really trying to make Rakdos good. It seems like it could be abused if the right cards exist in Ravnica.
-Yavimaya Ranger
I really like the Kraj... meh on Radkos, i tend to not like 1/2 cards.
*posting 10 minutes before next cards come up....*
Twomz's Trading thread
This is the sort of card that is a swing-hit-and-win card, I've been playing quick mock-up build of a deck running a full compliment of Rakdos, and whenever he's hit play and survived through his first atack I've won easily.
For making something so flavorable and fun too!
In a meta where Ghost Council and Scorched Rusalka are everywhere, hes just going to get chump blocked and then the chump will be sacked prior to damage.
You lose half your permanents. GG no RE.
*Ahem, It has both Flying and Trample, I don't know how those Councils and Rusalka's are blocking him. Please read the card/thread first next time please
Unless the chump blocker has toughness 6+, Rakdos will smack your opponent and they'll have to sac, too.
before trample damage is carried over to the player.
I suppose flying is still some sort of evasion but it’s not really that great anymore.
I personally look forward to giving Rakdos double strike. My playgroup should let me get away with that once
Flying + trample, OTOH, is quite good. How many fliers with toughness 7 are there to hold this guy off for even a turn? And how many run-of-the-mill fliers would you have to throw at him?
I really don't want to drag this out (I am only doing so for my own clarification on rules) and your probably right.
But if my opponent attacks with a Jitte equipped creature and I have a
Sakura-Tribe Elder out. He declares attackers then I declare blockers
and my Tribe Elder blocks his Jitte equipped creature.
Then my opponent will probably ask "damage on the stack?"
To which I will respond "No I'm going to sack my Elder prior to damage."
The effect is that he will get no Jitte counters.
If a creature with trample doesn't need to damage a creature anymore to hit a player I really need to brush up on my rules.
Edit: Spelling.. and other noobishness