Nef
I'm still unclear about this issue, tried reading up on it, but apparently I'm to messed up in my brain today. Can anyone clarify this for me: do Auras stay attached to creatures that someone else gains control of, or do they go to the graveyard?
I'll clarify this for you. When control of a permanent occurs and the Auras just say "Enchant ~type~", the Auras will not fall off. However this is not true when the Auras say "Enchant green creature" as seen on Wurmweaver Coil. When the aforementioned Coil Aura is moved to a nongreen creature, the next time State-Based Effects are checked (nearly always) the Enchantment - Aura will essentially unattach itself and land in its owner's graveyard (or removed from the game zone).
Hope this helps. Hope I answered your question (unlike those guys at WotC, who tend to meander off course of the question, especially John Carter and the gang who answer the Question of the Day).
It's slightly better, but I still think it sucks and that they're overpromoting a never-used subtype (Aura) much too much. Still, at least it goes better with Experiment Kraj now.
Well, now the card rocks, it van make the whole combat game really annoying. I give this guildmage a thumbs up. Now all that's left is to know the Rakdos GM
Moving counters lets me grow and shrink creatures, steal counters, and otherwise be a tricky person.
Moving AURAS lets me yank them around and save them from the graveyard if the creature gets killed. Not to mention all those pretty cards that do something when they become enchanted...wow
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Capt'N Glam
Are you really sure you are allowed to move an aura to a non valid target ?
As Wurmweaver Coil says enchant green creature, I believe you cannot move it onto a non green creature, no more than onto a land .
When you solve the ability of moving the aura : if the target is not valid, the aura doesn't move.
Or maybe it's not the same thing..
Maybe, you can move enchantements from creatures onto creatures but not onto lands
Capt'N Glam, yes you are quite correct. Rulings do say that cards have to meet the conditions or the whole moving business is just canceled. Often this is also a condition on cards. See Aura Graft.
Maybe I somehow didn't phrase correctly. What I meant to say about the enchantment dying is if the conditions aren't met when the Enchantment - Aura is on the permanent.
For example, Genju-animated land is enchanted with any Magemark. At end of turn, as a result of the ability, the Genju-animated land stops being a creature, remains a land still, and the Magemark hits the graveyard, because the one Genju-animated land is no longer a creature, hence not fulfilling the conditions of the "Enchant ..." clause.
@ulciscor: Good use of the rules against a possible judge. Ehem. *Need to study 'em.*
Thanks MTGSalvation brothers (and sisters)! *Need to study 'em rules.*
I am so lost.
Psychoburner
Moving counters lets me grow and shrink creatures, steal counters, and otherwise be a tricky person.
Psychoburner, if you read the card, you cannot "steal" counters (if you mean to move counters and Auras, for that matter, from your opponent's creatures to move them to your creatures.)
You can only move from counter/Aura on Player A's creature to another creature of Player A.
An untargettable isn't an invalid permanent. If it says Enchant Creature, any creature is a valid permanent. The only reason Untargettable creatures can't usually get Auras is because Auras need targets to attach...or they used to...:)
EDIT: Nef, no, when you gain control of a creature, all permanents attached to them remain in the control of their original controllers. This usually doesn't matter, as Auras really can't get taken off most of the time. Equipment ican get taken back, though
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DAMNIT: I should never have to shred my own character sheet in frustration.
Well, that's a really weak ruling. "move" and "place" do not seem to be normally synonyms, but they apparently are in MtG. Sigh. This guy is going to be a wrecking ball in limited.
In constructed, not so much; since when did constructed ever care about small combat trickiness?
Puzzle, you are absolutely right. Confusion indeed. As Master Yoda (from Star Wars) would say "Great disturbance in the Force there is." or something like that.
I am totally confused and I'd just like to sum up all I tried to say in this thread into "if you were to move an enchant green creature Enchantment - Aura from a green creature to a green creature, which after being attached loses the greeness, the enchant green creature would fall off, dig itself a ditch and die."
I don't know what in the world is my exact point but I really need to revise over the rules again.
Thanks: to all who helped clear this confusion; to those created such a confusion; to those who just posted; to those who will post; those who raised such a question that made me realise how incompetent a judge I am at this new-fangled concept of "Enchantment - Aura" stuff and moving Auras; and those who..., what the heck, everyone thanks.
Man, the old days were good, when there weren't such troubles.
From the Beatles Yesterday,
All my troubles seemed so far away,
Now it looks as though they're here to stay,
Oh, I believe in yesterday.
wow, really good indeed! Confiscate, annex, dreamleash, threads of disloyalty, wow the list goes on!!! Really solid card IMO much bettter that once predicted that extra touch in the text department may warrant it an include clause to tournaments!
And in case anyone asks, the new enchantee for Dream Leash doesn't need to be tapped as that's a play restriction only.
Yeah, but the new Enchantee for Dream Leash -does- have to be something you already control. :| The only use of this with dream leash it to coutner it by moving it off your stuff and onto their random Island or whatever, Which they would then have super-control of.
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Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, the wisdom to know the difference, and a ****ing chainsaw.
I like the wording on him. Oh, you sac your pilloried guy? Well guess what? I move it to your other guy! Ouch!
EDIT: Not like you would be playing U/G/W/B but still....
Eh, that doesn't work. You enchant their, say Loxodon Hierarch with Pillory of the Sleepless. They untap and sacrifice it to pay for the ability they're announcing (regenerating their team). When they're done playing the ability, SBEs are checked and the game sees an aura enchanting an illegal permanent (no permanent) and the aura goes to the yard. By the time you get priority the aura is long gone.
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Even worse, if you try to move it then they could respond by sacc'ing the guy you are moving the enchantment off of, with a rusalka or the creature itself (like a hierarch).
I am happy with this wording. It would be a little crazy if it let you move auras to any permanent, but restricting them to the same controller works. It isn't an aura stealer/donator...just a mover.
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I am looking for Date Stamped promos from Khans of Tarkir block so I can finish my set. Check my wants if you have any.
Currently offering 2 non-foil Kolighan's Command for a Date Stamped foil!
I agree with the general populace. The wording does make it much better I like the fact that now intargitible creautures like kodama of the north tree can now get aruras from you. the new wording makes it mess up the other players stuff a pro and anti simic card as well so again much better.
Somebody clarify this to me: Can it get a Kodama of the north tree enchanted or not? Because i'm getting mixed answers here!
You can use the guildmage to move an Aura off of some other creature onto Kodama of the North Tree. Neither the guildmage's ability nor the Aura targets the Kodama.
You cannot cast Auras normally onto a Kodama of the North Tree; casting an Aura would target the Kodama.
You also cannot use the guildmage to move an Aura onto something which it can't enchant according to it's "Enchant" ability, such as moving Pillory of the Sleepless onto a land, or moving Threads of Disloyalty onto Kokusho. If you try to use the ability in this way, the Aura will remain on the original permanent.
You can use the guildmage to move an Aura off of some other creature onto Kodama of the North Tree. Neither the guildmage's ability nor the Aura targets the Kodama.
You cannot cast Auras normally onto a Kodama of the North Tree; casting an Aura would target the Kodama.
You also cannot use the guildmage to move an Aura onto something which it can't enchant according to it's "Enchant" ability, such as moving Pillory of the Sleepless onto a land, or moving Threads of Disloyalty onto Kokusho. If you try to use the ability in this way, the Aura will remain on the original permanent.
That needs to be said with much larger letters, cause people aren't listening.
This card rocks. I can't wait to get my hands on them. Now to fing a way to break them with Genjus.
"Okay, this mountain's a 6/1, move the genju, now this mountain's a 6/1, move the genju...."
So much can be done with this guildmage, I'd have to say its the best of the guildmages. I'd love to move faiths fetters off my good creature or do combat tricks with moldervine cloak.
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I'll clarify this for you. When control of a permanent occurs and the Auras just say "Enchant ~type~", the Auras will not fall off. However this is not true when the Auras say "Enchant green creature" as seen on Wurmweaver Coil. When the aforementioned Coil Aura is moved to a nongreen creature, the next time State-Based Effects are checked (nearly always) the Enchantment - Aura will essentially unattach itself and land in its owner's graveyard (or removed from the game zone).
Hope this helps. Hope I answered your question (unlike those guys at WotC, who tend to meander off course of the question, especially John Carter and the gang who answer the Question of the Day).
Moving counters lets me grow and shrink creatures, steal counters, and otherwise be a tricky person.
Moving AURAS lets me yank them around and save them from the graveyard if the creature gets killed. Not to mention all those pretty cards that do something when they become enchanted...wow
Capt'N Glam, yes you are quite correct. Rulings do say that cards have to meet the conditions or the whole moving business is just canceled. Often this is also a condition on cards. See Aura Graft.
Maybe I somehow didn't phrase correctly. What I meant to say about the enchantment dying is if the conditions aren't met when the Enchantment - Aura is on the permanent.
For example, Genju-animated land is enchanted with any Magemark. At end of turn, as a result of the ability, the Genju-animated land stops being a creature, remains a land still, and the Magemark hits the graveyard, because the one Genju-animated land is no longer a creature, hence not fulfilling the conditions of the "Enchant ..." clause.
@ulciscor: Good use of the rules against a possible judge. Ehem.
*Need to study 'em.*
Thanks MTGSalvation brothers (and sisters)!
*Need to study 'em rules.*
I am so lost.
Psychoburner, if you read the card, you cannot "steal" counters (if you mean to move counters and Auras, for that matter, from your opponent's creatures to move them to your creatures.)
You can only move from counter/Aura on Player A's creature to another creature of Player A.
EDIT: Nef, no, when you gain control of a creature, all permanents attached to them remain in the control of their original controllers. This usually doesn't matter, as Auras really can't get taken off most of the time. Equipment ican get taken back, though
In constructed, not so much; since when did constructed ever care about small combat trickiness?
Puzzle, you are absolutely right. Confusion indeed. As Master Yoda (from Star Wars) would say "Great disturbance in the Force there is." or something like that.
I am totally confused and I'd just like to sum up all I tried to say in this thread into "if you were to move an enchant green creature Enchantment - Aura from a green creature to a green creature, which after being attached loses the greeness, the enchant green creature would fall off, dig itself a ditch and die."
I don't know what in the world is my exact point but I really need to revise over the rules again.
Thanks: to all who helped clear this confusion; to those created such a confusion; to those who just posted; to those who will post; those who raised such a question that made me realise how incompetent a judge I am at this new-fangled concept of "Enchantment - Aura" stuff and moving Auras; and those who..., what the heck, everyone thanks.
Man, the old days were good, when there weren't such troubles.
From the Beatles
Yesterday,
All my troubles seemed so far away,
Now it looks as though they're here to stay,
Oh, I believe in yesterday.
Adios amigos.
Yeah, but the new Enchantee for Dream Leash -does- have to be something you already control. :| The only use of this with dream leash it to coutner it by moving it off your stuff and onto their random Island or whatever, Which they would then have super-control of.
Eh, that doesn't work. You enchant their, say Loxodon Hierarch with Pillory of the Sleepless. They untap and sacrifice it to pay for the ability they're announcing (regenerating their team). When they're done playing the ability, SBEs are checked and the game sees an aura enchanting an illegal permanent (no permanent) and the aura goes to the yard. By the time you get priority the aura is long gone.
Even worse, if you try to move it then they could respond by sacc'ing the guy you are moving the enchantment off of, with a rusalka or the creature itself (like a hierarch).
There's always fewer preview cards for the small sets than the big ones. Have to stick around a few years to catch details like that.
Currently offering 2 non-foil Kolighan's Command for a Date Stamped foil!
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-Zigmat, Rat Overlord
You cannot cast Auras normally onto a Kodama of the North Tree; casting an Aura would target the Kodama.
You also cannot use the guildmage to move an Aura onto something which it can't enchant according to it's "Enchant" ability, such as moving Pillory of the Sleepless onto a land, or moving Threads of Disloyalty onto Kokusho. If you try to use the ability in this way, the Aura will remain on the original permanent.
This card rocks. I can't wait to get my hands on them. Now to fing a way to break them with Genjus.
"Okay, this mountain's a 6/1, move the genju, now this mountain's a 6/1, move the genju...."
--Thinking Spikey
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Good Movie Mafia - Townie - Survived - Win
Mortal Kombat Mafia - Mafia - Lynched - Loss
Star Wars Mafia II - Townie - Exploded - Loss
Newbie Mafia 11 - Townie - Survived - Loss
Don't Fear the Reaper Mafia - Solo Mafia after day 1 - Survived - Win
Unluckyville Mafia - Townie - Survived - Win
View Askew Mafia - Townie - Survived - Win
Yeah. You can only kill one creature per turn that way, but it works.