Mind's Desire's a sorcery - aren't you usually playing it on your own turn, when you could play sorceries anyway?
The other two let you play the spell as part of the resolution of their abilities. The land as worded just makes the card available to play; the actual playing of the card isn't part of the ability.
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I am willing to bet my collection that Frozen and Solid are not on the same card. For example, Frozen Tomb and Solid Wall.
If Frozen Solid is not reprinted, you are aware that I'm quoting you in my sig for eternity?
People keep talking about how it would be broken if this card allowed you to play Sorcerys at instant speed.
Two (sort of) cards exist to do that.
Vedalken Orrery and Quicken.
So the fact that this card for the repeated investment of mana is broken because it allows you to repeatedly play sorcerys as instants isn't that good of an argument
All of these cards make specific allowances for non-standard casting times for sorceries. Panoptic Mirror explicitly dictates that the spell is cast during your upkeep. Mind's Desire does not actually allow you to cast sorceries as instants. Eye of the Storm explicitly tells you that you may play sorcery (copies) "whenever you play an instant".
it wont be for free or it should be red or blue instant or sorcery card.. otherwise it would them splash for colours without having acces to their coloured mana
it is neverthless pretty good with counterspells and burn, generating card advantage pretty fastly i'd value it little lower than vitu-ghazi, the city tree but higher than any other guildland so far.. Gruul one seems decent though and i like orzhov one but they arent particularly strong
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The Sage is occupied with the unspoken
and acts without effort.
Teaching without verbosity,
producing without possessing,
creating without regard to result,
claiming nothing,
the Sage has nothing to lose.
So the fact that this card for the repeated investment of mana is broken because it allows you to repeatedly play sorcerys as instants isn't that good of an argument
A perma-Quicken-like ability would be its only redeeming quality.
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"I am so stupid that I cannot understand philosophy; the antithesis of this is that philosophy is so clever that it cannot comprehend my stupidity. These antitheses are mediated in a higher unity; in our common stupidity."
~ Søren Aabye Kierkegaard
The only thing that bugs me it's the "pay the mana cost" or "don't pay the mana cost" issue, as this defines if the card is pretty good or just unplayable jank. I'm looking forward to someone who has the magazine to check the info for us, for all I know, this land could even be fake, so can anyone who has access to the magazine check please? Also, Rancored_Elf could you please ask your sources if something like this is in Guildpact?
Again, how is 5 mana for 1 free card, and a limited one at that, better than Mind's Desire? Desire, a rather powerful card, isn't exactly ruling any formats right now, and to call it broken is fairly asinine at this point. A land that functions in a similar vein, but extremely nuetered, is not broken. In fact, it's not even close, and in actual practice it might not even be the best guildhall. Vitu-ghazi is still a pretty mean deal.
Things to keep in mind:
1: You don't want to tap down 5 lands for a counterspell. Think about hardcast Force of Will, how many times have you seen it? Heck, think about Dessertion which roughly half the time nets you card advantage. Look at Rewind or Last Word, even, and tell me if you want to tap down 4 lands for a counterspell.
2: You NEED top to make this work like you people are thinking it'll work. Now we're talking about a 2 card combo. Running playsets of both, You'd need to consistently see 20 cards a game just to get your combo out in 2/3 of your games.
3: You need to activate top every turn if this is some crazy combo deck instead of a control deck, virtually timewalking yourself. Yay for you.
4: Sometimes you draw your stupid 10 mana white card, or whatever insanely big card you hope to use, in your U/R combo deck. I don't see Brainstorm any place where it'd be useful with this card. What do you do when you draw your win before you have your 2 card combo up?
Seriously, for those reasons and more, there's nothing broken about this card.
and in the #25 post, Charlie says that a japanese magazine (GameGather) has shown the text for the Izzet Guildhall (the uncommon land)
since I haven't seen this info before anywhere else, I would like to know if it is confirmed? does anyone have access to this magazine to confirm this info?
anyway, the land that Charlie says that GameGather confirmed as the Izzet GuildHall is:
Tap: Add 1 to your mana pool
2UR,Tap: Remove the top card form your library form the game. Before your next turn, if the removed card is an instant or sorcery, you may play it with paying its mana cost."
Guys, if this is a direct translation, then it wouldn't really mean this wording you know... Japanese (Nippongo) isn't as direct as English is.
Can anyone independently confirm this? Get ahold of the magazine or something (and read Japanese)? I don't quite trust one person saying 'it was in a a magazine' unless it's someone with a reputation here.
This is basically a really bad version of Temporal Aperture(Urza's Saga artifact with 2 mana cc, 5 mana ac, could play any type of card). Which I remember wasn't really used in anything other than mad artifact mana producing decks, and really as nothing more than an afterthought.
Of course, would be broken in half if it was "without." I can read Japanese but I'll need an actual copy of Game Gather first... Kind of hard to get in the middle of Massachusetts
BTW, I have a question, don't most cards that removes a card and enables you to use it usually makes copies of it? Just a thought...
Examples of my point...
Eye of the Storm5
Enchantment
Whenever a player plays an instant or sorcery card, remove it from the game. Then that player copies each instant or sorcery card removed from the game with Eye of the Storm. For each copy, the player may play the copy without paying its mana cost.
Radiate3
Instant
Choose target instant or sorcery spell that targets only a single permanent or player. For each other permanent or player that spell could target, put a copy of the spell onto the stack. Each copy targets a different one of those permanents and players.
Panoptic Mirror5 Artifact
Imprint - X, T: You may remove an instant or sorcery
card with converted mana cost X in your hand from the
game. (That card is imprinted on this artifact.)
At the beginning of your upkeep, you may copy an imprinted
instant or sorcery card and play the copy without paying
its mana cost.
Spellbinder 3
Artifact - Equipment
Imprint - When Spellbinder comes into play, you may
remove an instant card in your hand from the game.
Whenever equipped creature deals combat damage to a
player, you may copy the imprinted instant card and
play the copy without paying its mana cost.
Equip 4
Spellweaver Helix3
Artifact
Imprint - When Spellweaver Helix comes into play, you may remove two target sorcery cards in a single graveyard from the game. (The removed cards are imprinted on this artifact.)
Whenever a card is played, if it has the same name as one of the imprinted sorcery cards, you may copy the other and play the copy without paying its mana cost.
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On the works: Leyline Deck Wins
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Decks built:
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:symru:16 land Ignite Memories Combo:symru:
:symbu:Hunted Singularity:symbu:
BTW, I have a question, don't most cards that removes a card and enables you to use it usually makes copies of it? Just a thought...
Isocron Scepter and friends that allow you to cast a spell repeatedly make copies. But one shot effects like Kaho, Minamo Historian just use the removed spell and let it go to the graveyard like normal when it resolves.
This would be a one-shot effect, so it wouldn't need to copy.
Since 'paying' isn't in the orb, is there any way that it could be in something like reminder text that might not be searched? Or are we looking at:
Izzet Guildhall
Land T: Add 1 to your mana pool. 2UR,T: remove the top card of your library from the game. Until end of turn, you may play that card(?as though it is in your hand?). (You must still pay its mana cost).
The magazine exists (http://www.jafcon.net/gamegather/, yay Google!), but that doesn't mean they published anything, or that the grapevine translated it properly.
OldType, you said you could read Japanese? Wanna take a crack at the site, see if you can find anything?
@Ivkost: I meant with a 'play for free' clause. But there is no 'paying' and thuis no 'without paying its mana cost' in the orb.
According to the webpage, the February issue at least doesn't seem to have any GP information.
The cover story is on MISTWALKER, and they have specials on a new RoTK(Romance of the Three Kingdoms, popular east-asian literature classic) TCG, the XBOX 360, and Online TCGs. There's also a cover line on the Gundam 0079 Card Bulider and the Renewal TCG.
Nothing on GP.
The magazine is running their regular MTG section, but they usually run specials when they get MTG new set infomation.
The one hit from "without" on the Orb is most likely in some flavor text somewhere. It's still my belief that the Guildland has an ability along these lines, since all the Guildlands so far have had abilities directly relating their Guild's main focus:
So it would seem to me that the Izzet Guildland would have an ability that either copies spells or does something tricky with spells (such as the alleged mechanic).
No, the card's text (the land's) takes precedence over the rules. It says you may play it before your next turn. Therefore, you can play it at anytime, essentially as though it were an instant. Assuming that the text given is the actual text, of course.
while you are correct that cards trump rules, this wording doesn't say anything about the speed of the flipped instant or sorcery, it doesn't even try to trump the rules. it doesn't say that you can play sorceries as instants, meaning that you must still play your soreceries as sorceries.
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Mind's Desire's a sorcery - aren't you usually playing it on your own turn, when you could play sorceries anyway?
The other two let you play the spell as part of the resolution of their abilities. The land as worded just makes the card available to play; the actual playing of the card isn't part of the ability.
People keep talking about how it would be broken if this card allowed you to play Sorcerys at instant speed.
Two (sort of) cards exist to do that.
Vedalken Orrery and Quicken.
So the fact that this card for the repeated investment of mana is broken because it allows you to repeatedly play sorcerys as instants isn't that good of an argument
All of these cards make specific allowances for non-standard casting times for sorceries. Panoptic Mirror explicitly dictates that the spell is cast during your upkeep. Mind's Desire does not actually allow you to cast sorceries as instants. Eye of the Storm explicitly tells you that you may play sorcery (copies) "whenever you play an instant".
it is neverthless pretty good with counterspells and burn, generating card advantage pretty fastly i'd value it little lower than vitu-ghazi, the city tree but higher than any other guildland so far.. Gruul one seems decent though and i like orzhov one but they arent particularly strong
and acts without effort.
Teaching without verbosity,
producing without possessing,
creating without regard to result,
claiming nothing,
the Sage has nothing to lose.
~ Søren Aabye Kierkegaard
Thanks in advance
Don't you love when people make such claims and are wrong?
Things to keep in mind:
1: You don't want to tap down 5 lands for a counterspell. Think about hardcast Force of Will, how many times have you seen it? Heck, think about Dessertion which roughly half the time nets you card advantage. Look at Rewind or Last Word, even, and tell me if you want to tap down 4 lands for a counterspell.
2: You NEED top to make this work like you people are thinking it'll work. Now we're talking about a 2 card combo. Running playsets of both, You'd need to consistently see 20 cards a game just to get your combo out in 2/3 of your games.
3: You need to activate top every turn if this is some crazy combo deck instead of a control deck, virtually timewalking yourself. Yay for you.
4: Sometimes you draw your stupid 10 mana white card, or whatever insanely big card you hope to use, in your U/R combo deck. I don't see Brainstorm any place where it'd be useful with this card. What do you do when you draw your win before you have your 2 card combo up?
Seriously, for those reasons and more, there's nothing broken about this card.
Guys, if this is a direct translation, then it wouldn't really mean this wording you know... Japanese (Nippongo) isn't as direct as English is.
On the works:
Leyline Deck Wins:symbu:Null 'n Void:symbu:
Decks built:
:symg::symb::symr::symw::symu:ChangelingsUWRBG
:symru:16 land Ignite Memories Combo:symru:
:symbu:Hunted Singularity:symbu:
And the orb seems to be rejecting it.
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I was a Top 32 Contestant for RPG Superstar 2008!
Come take a look at my custom set, Lost Relics. (To be finished...eventually)
Check out the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game
Of course, would be broken in half if it was "without." I can read Japanese but I'll need an actual copy of Game Gather first... Kind of hard to get in the middle of Massachusetts
On the works:
Leyline Deck Wins:symbu:Null 'n Void:symbu:
Decks built:
:symg::symb::symr::symw::symu:ChangelingsUWRBG
:symru:16 land Ignite Memories Combo:symru:
:symbu:Hunted Singularity:symbu:
Examples of my point...
Eye of the Storm 5
Enchantment
Whenever a player plays an instant or sorcery card, remove it from the game. Then that player copies each instant or sorcery card removed from the game with Eye of the Storm. For each copy, the player may play the copy without paying its mana cost.
Radiate 3
Instant
Choose target instant or sorcery spell that targets only a single permanent or player. For each other permanent or player that spell could target, put a copy of the spell onto the stack. Each copy targets a different one of those permanents and players.
Panoptic Mirror 5 Artifact
Imprint - X, T: You may remove an instant or sorcery
card with converted mana cost X in your hand from the
game. (That card is imprinted on this artifact.)
At the beginning of your upkeep, you may copy an imprinted
instant or sorcery card and play the copy without paying
its mana cost.
Spellbinder 3
Artifact - Equipment
Imprint - When Spellbinder comes into play, you may
remove an instant card in your hand from the game.
Whenever equipped creature deals combat damage to a
player, you may copy the imprinted instant card and
play the copy without paying its mana cost.
Equip 4
Spellweaver Helix 3
Artifact
Imprint - When Spellweaver Helix comes into play, you may remove two target sorcery cards in a single graveyard from the game. (The removed cards are imprinted on this artifact.)
Whenever a card is played, if it has the same name as one of the imprinted sorcery cards, you may copy the other and play the copy without paying its mana cost.
On the works:
Leyline Deck Wins:symbu:Null 'n Void:symbu:
Decks built:
:symg::symb::symr::symw::symu:ChangelingsUWRBG
:symru:16 land Ignite Memories Combo:symru:
:symbu:Hunted Singularity:symbu:
Isocron Scepter and friends that allow you to cast a spell repeatedly make copies. But one shot effects like Kaho, Minamo Historian just use the removed spell and let it go to the graveyard like normal when it resolves.
This would be a one-shot effect, so it wouldn't need to copy.
Since 'paying' isn't in the orb, is there any way that it could be in something like reminder text that might not be searched? Or are we looking at:
Izzet Guildhall
Land
T: Add 1 to your mana pool.
2UR,T: remove the top card of your library from the game. Until end of turn, you may play that card(?as though it is in your hand?). (You must still pay its mana cost).
'Bad Spirit' banner by Hot Pizza at Ye Olde Sig and Avatar Shoppe
I was a Top 32 Contestant for RPG Superstar 2008!
Come take a look at my custom set, Lost Relics. (To be finished...eventually)
Check out the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game
Nope... I does exist... try searching it with google. (BTW, GOOGLE can translate the japanese pages...)
On the works:
Leyline Deck Wins:symbu:Null 'n Void:symbu:
Decks built:
:symg::symb::symr::symw::symu:ChangelingsUWRBG
:symru:16 land Ignite Memories Combo:symru:
:symbu:Hunted Singularity:symbu:
OldType, you said you could read Japanese? Wanna take a crack at the site, see if you can find anything?
@Ivkost: I meant with a 'play for free' clause. But there is no 'paying' and thuis no 'without paying its mana cost' in the orb.
'Bad Spirit' banner by Hot Pizza at Ye Olde Sig and Avatar Shoppe
I was a Top 32 Contestant for RPG Superstar 2008!
Come take a look at my custom set, Lost Relics. (To be finished...eventually)
Check out the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game
It does exist...but as the title "Game Gather" with a space between the words. Information has been collected from the magazine since the late 1990's.
On a path toward Legacy.
LOL... is this a race? haha...
on a serious note though... The latest issue has an article on Magic: the Gathering... The Magazine doesn't seems to cover MTG very often...
On the works:
Leyline Deck Wins:symbu:Null 'n Void:symbu:
Decks built:
:symg::symb::symr::symw::symu:ChangelingsUWRBG
:symru:16 land Ignite Memories Combo:symru:
:symbu:Hunted Singularity:symbu:
The cover story is on MISTWALKER, and they have specials on a new RoTK(Romance of the Three Kingdoms, popular east-asian literature classic) TCG, the XBOX 360, and Online TCGs. There's also a cover line on the Gundam 0079 Card Bulider and the Renewal TCG.
Nothing on GP.
The magazine is running their regular MTG section, but they usually run specials when they get MTG new set infomation.
Duskmantle - Milling
Vitu-Ghazi - Tokens
Svogthos - Graveyard/Animation
Sunhome - Abilities/Power
Orzhova - Lifedrain/Lifegain
Skarrg - Pump/Trample
So it would seem to me that the Izzet Guildland would have an ability that either copies spells or does something tricky with spells (such as the alleged mechanic).
U Twinsanity
WUBRG Reaper King
UBG Dredge
UR Howling Owl
GBU Thief of Time
while you are correct that cards trump rules, this wording doesn't say anything about the speed of the flipped instant or sorcery, it doesn't even try to trump the rules. it doesn't say that you can play sorceries as instants, meaning that you must still play your soreceries as sorceries.