What I said was pretty harsh, but that's what I feel about it. I'm a pretty spiky guy, so in the tournament scene that's what I think goes on. I understand a lot of people are more casual players, and some people feel different about it even if they are tournament players, but in the last 3 years that's just what I've seen. Blue decks mean interaction, and interaction means more fun.
You say I judge the set based on one common... I'm not judging the set, I'm judging what R&D has been doing recently. This is just another signal saying that blue control is something they do not want to make a good deck, despite the fact they still screwed up and printed Vedalken Shackles, letting blue players hold on a little bit to their dream.
Blue the color will get good cards, blue the deck is dying.
Why are you guys arguing?
This is not a good card, and there's a good chance it won't see play out of Block.
They're arguing because it looks like R&D hates Blue more and more these days, or at least wants to make it strictly a color to splash and nothing more.
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Getting the last word does not mean that you win the argument.
Blue still has hinder,meloku, and most of the rest of type 2 muc. Losing Shakles will hurt, but honestly, don't you people realize that Ravnika will have good blue cards? My favorite color will remain playable. You guys are like "unless blue is teh overpowered l33t academy dex. MTG Is tEH SuX!!@!2". WTF? U does not suck as much as green has for most of mtg's history. Only since Invasion block has RND started ramping up green giving them deed, mongrel, and tooth amongst lots of other cards. The inverse is happening to blue. I love blue, but I am glad it is weaker now. It was too easy to win in the old days...
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"But then are we most in order when we are most out of order."-Jack Cade
"That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may die."
- H.P. Lovecraft
Its good. It will see play in a T2 environment espically with condescend gone.
Exactly my words. I was waiting for this because my Deck can't support Hinder, and once Condesend is gone, I need another counter besides Mana Leak, and this seems decent.
I love it
And without blue's disruption, Magic basically becomes a contest of who can get the fattest thing out.
Yeah. Right. Other colors dont have any removal...totally luck based...
If the rest of the set is as slow as most of Kami block is this card may not be all that bad. It's no Mana Leak.
One of the reasons Thoughtbind is such a disappointing card is because most of the important breakers for Type 2 right now cost 5 or more (Meloku, Tooth, Arc-Slogger, a big Death Cloud, Kokusho, Final Judgment, Mindslaver, etc.) and the decks that play those cards can quickly ramp up mana past your spell's utility range; and its cost is too much to pay to counter crap like STE and Reach.
Ravnica is really looking good from a blue/black standpoint. I know it just happens that the cards that are being revealed first are both blue or black and powerful so I cant say that blue and black are the best colors in ravnica but if i may point out some other recent set's blue and black power cards you might understand. Look at ninth. You've got stuff like hippie and truamatize. In kami block you've got stuff like twincast and cranial. Add those to the black blue mill card from ravnica, dark confidant, and convolute and you have some insane ****. Also, throw jester's cap and millstone in there and you have got a recipe for and insane deck. Feedback is encouraged...
I like it, people tend to play around mana leak by keeping 3 mana open when they cast spells, if you use this as well hey either have to keep 4 mana open buying you an extra turn or will keep only the 3 open and run into this.
Its ok... Definatly worse than mana leak. As for R&D hosing blue, blue still has good stuff at the absence of shackles. I guess now people think that if blue is not uber-broken R&D is hosing blue... get over it and stop complaining because you still can build a mono blue deck in standard (I dont want to see this getting qouted with people saying it sucks cause its not uber-broken and always wins....)
WoW... umm... R&D finally starts balancing blue, to a level that it should be, and it can't support it's self quite as easily as it once could, like oh, say academy, stasis, ect. WoW.... I'm impressed. No I don't like the card particularly, but, as far as hosing blue, meh, I only can say it's about bloody time. Ok, that's my 2cents....
As for the card: It's nice, but nothing to get too excited about. Maybe it'll see some play if MUC keeps playing
as for R&D "hosing" blue: first, I don't think tha blue is being "hosed". If anyone likes to say so, I feel the need to say them that the other colors have been "hosed" since the beginning of Magic: The Gathering, while blue was the only "fair" color, and now R&D is evening the scores for red, white and green (as black was clearly as "balanced" and "fair" as blue with stuff like the Black Summer) Second, if blue gets some not so good cards, the blue fans says that the color is being "hosed", but when things like vedalken shackles get released, they say that R&D "mess up" so these people don't seem to make up their minds, do they want blue and blue-friendly artifacts to get good cards or not? because they keep complaining either way! I just don't get it.
WTF? Ever heard of these colors called black and red, I hear they have some good removal. Blue keeps things from entering play, or controls the damage they can cause if they get in play. It removes things, to peoples hands, or locks stuff down in play. Red/black get far more true "removal" spells.
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"But then are we most in order when we are most out of order."-Jack Cade
"That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may die."
- H.P. Lovecraft
WTF? Ever heard of these colors called black and red, I hear they have some good removal. Blue keeps things from entering play, or controls the damage they can cause if they get in play. It removes things, to peoples hands, or locks stuff down in play. Red/black get far more true "removal" spells.
I'm sorry, I just yearn for the days when you could burn things decently as an instant for less than three mana and when there was instant spot spot-removal and countermagic that was effective and cost two mana. Disruption is what makes the game fun and encourages skill.
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"The imagination is not a State: it is the Human existence itself." - William Blake
Looks like a decent early to mid game counter that isn't overpowered. Hard to tell whether blue's being nerfed from one single card, though. Guess when you've had stuff like Tolarian Academy and a 2 mana denial spell for anything, it's hard to think any of the new cards are good.
I expect Ravnica to have 15 or 20 lands - probably the latter, as ISTR someone mentioning three cycles of lands and R_E's info suggests that all ten pain lands are in this set.
I think 15 is a decent estimate, although not because there are "10 painlands" in the set. I'm definitely thinking 4 guild lands, not 10, and I don't think they're painlands - probably more like duals. But that doesn't mean 15 lands is way off because that's the number I'm estimating as well.
well if convolute is 40, im guessing theres going to be 35 of each color (meaning 175 total), im guessing about 20 artifacts, 15 non basic lands, 20 basic lands (for a total of 55).. 175+55 = 230, giving us about 76 gold cards.. just an estimate, but i think thats probably a good guess as to what the numbers will break down as...
I think this card is more solid then many people give it credit for. Its splashable, and odds are it will be extremely easy to cast given the sheer amount of dual lands that will be avalible in the format.
4 mana is a big hurdle that most people cant cross until the very late game (unless everything they cast is under 3 mana). Sure its not a hard counter, but it will be most of the time.
sigh, wotc why have you nuterd blue, *shakes head*, why o why cant they jsut make one counter close to being good as manaleak and costs 2. Well this is olny one and useally there is 2-3 counterspells per main set so there is still hope, but i doubt it can get any better then this. Looks like its time to run *shudder* remove soul*shudder*
*sigh* What BS...
MUC might as well be dead as it loses the Shackes when Ravnica arrives.
"Stoned players can't attack, block, or play spells or abilities."
You say I judge the set based on one common... I'm not judging the set, I'm judging what R&D has been doing recently. This is just another signal saying that blue control is something they do not want to make a good deck, despite the fact they still screwed up and printed Vedalken Shackles, letting blue players hold on a little bit to their dream.
Blue the color will get good cards, blue the deck is dying.
This is not a good card, and there's a good chance it won't see play out of Block.
They're arguing because it looks like R&D hates Blue more and more these days, or at least wants to make it strictly a color to splash and nothing more.
"That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may die."
- H.P. Lovecraft
Exactly my words. I was waiting for this because my Deck can't support Hinder, and once Condesend is gone, I need another counter besides Mana Leak, and this seems decent.
I love it
Yeah. Right. Other colors dont have any removal...totally luck based...
One of the reasons Thoughtbind is such a disappointing card is because most of the important breakers for Type 2 right now cost 5 or more (Meloku, Tooth, Arc-Slogger, a big Death Cloud, Kokusho, Final Judgment, Mindslaver, etc.) and the decks that play those cards can quickly ramp up mana past your spell's utility range; and its cost is too much to pay to counter crap like STE and Reach.
In any case, great job, R_E.
Machius proudly supports R_E's right to Rumour!
Behind the eyes of truth, is a world of illustions.
Dragon Riderof a Mist Dragonn anyway with the Dragon Riders Clan.
as for R&D "hosing" blue: first, I don't think tha blue is being "hosed". If anyone likes to say so, I feel the need to say them that the other colors have been "hosed" since the beginning of Magic: The Gathering, while blue was the only "fair" color, and now R&D is evening the scores for red, white and green (as black was clearly as "balanced" and "fair" as blue with stuff like the Black Summer) Second, if blue gets some not so good cards, the blue fans says that the color is being "hosed", but when things like vedalken shackles get released, they say that R&D "mess up" so these people don't seem to make up their minds, do they want blue and blue-friendly artifacts to get good cards or not? because they keep complaining either way! I just don't get it.
Don't you love when people make such claims and are wrong?
"That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may die."
- H.P. Lovecraft
I'm sorry, I just yearn for the days when you could burn things decently as an instant for less than three mana and when there was instant spot spot-removal and countermagic that was effective and cost two mana. Disruption is what makes the game fun and encourages skill.
"Stoned players can't attack, block, or play spells or abilities."
i like. GoGo Rav!
........................
I_F
I think 15 is a decent estimate, although not because there are "10 painlands" in the set. I'm definitely thinking 4 guild lands, not 10, and I don't think they're painlands - probably more like duals. But that doesn't mean 15 lands is way off because that's the number I'm estimating as well.
.
Invasion would probably be more relevant to look at, though.
1. Ancient Spring
2. Archeological Dig
3. Geothermal Crevice
4. Irrigation Ditch
5. Keldon Necropolis
6. Sulfur Vent
7. Tinder Farm
8.-12. Taplands
So 12 lands total for Invasion, two cycles and then a couple off-lands, so to speak.
(Also known as Xenphire)
4 mana is a big hurdle that most people cant cross until the very late game (unless everything they cast is under 3 mana). Sure its not a hard counter, but it will be most of the time.
Thanks for the awesome sig Topher!
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