Wow...Blue really got shafted this time. No instant-speed card drawing? Bummer. No Curiosity, Bribery, Spiketail Hatchling, Hibernate, or Merchant Scroll? Now Blue players really have something to complain about. I mean, Wizards took out some high-quality cards this time. MUC had weapons in Bribery and Hibernate, but um...oh well. Now Blue's colour hosers are pretty damn piss-poor. Well, at least in the Core Set. My thoughts? Perhaps a bit drastic, but I think Wizards did an alright job. Only time will tell...
I agree that blue gets the shaft, however MUC (the draw-go kind) will always be one of the most powerful strategies, coz it has one of the best hosers in the game (counter target spell). However I'm most dissapointed in the card-drawing, as no card-drawers are instant. However drawing four cards for 5 could have some use, drawing 2 for 3 is useless (imo). But as stated earlier, and as MaRo wrote in some article a while ago that R&D balances the game between sets and expansions, i.e. if the core set has a lot of powerful counters, then they can't print many in the expansions, and vice versa. I think we'll se white being a less dominating color in the expansions, and blue being a bit better in expansions than in the core game...
Still - blue will always be the best color, coz it's difficult to nerf down blue without actually killing it (they can't make Mana Leak into a sorcery to balance the power can they?).
And I play around with a Draw-Go deck which uses exactly 1 shackles, and it still kicks a$$ (never had the shackles in play even)....
F*** whoever was in charge of 9th, except for Richard Garfield. Blue's damn stupid. Only thing I want there is Clone (Yay!). AND NO BRIBERY??? And what's with Fishliver Oil and the constant attendance of Zur's Weirding?
Ow! Wotc just sent somebody from R'nD round to my house. I answered the door.
"I got your blue right here" SMACK.
After picking myself up. Well this is dissapointing. can only hope Ravnica is going to put a smile back on my face cause 9th didn't.
I really want to see the pre-con for blue. I am having trouble imagining just how bad it could be.
Edit:
Okay the swelling has gone down a little and I spend a little more time looking at what we've got.
It's still a big pile but then blue was that in 8th. We've lost a couple of decent cards and got some poor replacements. Clone is kinda cool as mine were knicked a few years back.
I keep looking at the list and thinking of cards in other colours to go with it. That's annoying me right now but I can wait and see what else we get. At least traunmaitze might be an interseting board for the splice deck I'm having fun with just now. See cloud, silver lining 8^)
Who else can see the blue pre-con as a rehash of Sky slam (shiver) with Aven Windreader and thought courier?
Time Ebb and Exhaustion I think could see some use. Impossible to tell without it all change and no real hard knowedge of Ravnica but once mirrodin goes these may see use.
To everyone who keeps saying MUC is good in Standard so they need to keep nerfing the color - the card that makes the deck work is Vedalken Shackles, which (last time I checked) is NOT BLUE. MUC would not exist if Shackles did not exist - blue is not good, Shackles is good. Additionally, MUC really isn't even that good anymore; it's certainly not 'dominating' Standard.
This list is really weak. I can count the number of tournament worthy cards on one hand and have a digit or two left over. No instant speed card draw (think Red with no Shock - yeah, thought so), no Unsummon (Time Ebb would be ok, except for the fact that it costs 3...oh, and that it's a SORCERY), and a bunch of gimmicky (read: not good) cards like Polymorph, Traumatize, and Plagiarize? Well, I suppose Traumatize could be OK if library-depletion makes a comeback with Dampen Thought, but I doubt it. If WotC wanted to give blue the shaft, they did a pretty good job making sure there's almost nothing that's any good.
I am so far not happy with the core set. White was kinda okay but blue, well it'll make for some great casual games but i dunno if i would take it anywhere.
Too bad i likes B/G, Lets hope they don't get an okay pool (as in they need a good one).
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RnD during Time Spiral:
Rosewater: "Color Pie, WTF is that, If I want Black to be able to wrath, counter and have green creatures then I will damnit!"
Random RnD guy: "RED AKORMA! FTW!"
Gleemax: "Rosewater has broken out of my mind control!"
RnD after 2008:
MaRo: Hmm how do we fix the problems of pricing with cards like Tarmogoyf and Thoughtsieze
Random RnD Guy: OO lets make a new RED RARITY SYMBOL!
MARO: OMGWTFBBQ! Thats a great idea, we'll call it Mythic Rarity!
Gleemax: NOT AGAIN! CELEB
Wow I'm so excited about blue, being one of my favorite colors. Blue has turned into nothing but support a second color at best. Traumatize and clone are the best rares after that it only has a few good cards. Councel of the Soratami is the best card drawer in awhile. After that blue will be missed for awhile in T2. I hope Garfield will save the blue players in Rav. Only thing is Garfield is a white player, and seeing whites list the white weenie decks will rule T2 for a long time.
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first turn
Nick: I lay a swamp, tap, dark ritual...
Me: If you cast a hypnotic specter I'll punch you in the face
Nick:...ahh I take 3 points of mana burn
The reason I play black according to CrovaxtheCursed:
Don't be surprised that blue is significantly worse than white. R&D has been saying for the last few years that they want to reduce blue's power. They -are- intentionally hosing blue to the point of unplayability so that they can start over and balance it properly.
The fact that blue steams doesn't mean that black, red or green will.
To everyone who keeps saying MUC is good in Standard so they need to keep nerfing the color - the card that makes the deck work is Vedalken Shackles, which (last time I checked) is NOT BLUE.
It doesn't matter that Shackles is an artifact. The more blue your deck is, the more Shackles is playable in it. It motivates players to play an all blue deck so they can keep out a max number of islands at all times. Aside from the shackles blue obviously has enough to stuff to make the deck work.
Quote from mkv_wraithstyle »
MUC would not exist if Shackles did not exist - blue is not good, Shackles is good.
Tell that to Meloku. I agree with Zombie Carl *GASP* that the deck would still exist without Shackles, just on a different tier. As long as TNN is dominant countermagic based decks will be around as the most popular answer. MUC does, however, take a huge blow against its arch-nemesis with the loss of Bribery, its best sideboard card. The combined effect of this and Pithing Needle could very well knock the deck down a tier.
MUC itself is NOT a degenerate deck, but in an age of equality where the color pie is on the verge of being perfected a pure blue, pure control deck should not be this powerful. Blue, as the best support color, should not have the means to be self-sufficient. MUC's very existance goes against everything R&D has been working for and it only slipped through the cracks because they were all too distracted with Raffinity to care.
This weak Core Set for blue is a "nuclear option" to make sure that it doesn't happen again in the near future, and if they were truly ready to bring blue back to its glory days they would bring back Counterspell.
This list kinda made me sad. But happy again once I saw wits and the fish liver oil. If only Dandan was reprinted I would truly be happy. I fell real sorry for the person who buys the Blue precon for 9th. Cause it will probably have clone and all the crap and 4 fish liver oils.
Battle of Wits in a Core Set??? No way. That alone makes me doubt this, much as Paladin en-Vec did with the White. I just can't see Wizards encouraging the kiddies to play 200+ card decks...
Fishliver Oil???
I also have doubts about Polymorph going into a Core Set again. Yeah, they made Reweave recently and its basicly arcane Polymorph. But blue makes things die sooooooooo rarely that I just have trouble believing R&D would put a blue card in a Core Set that says "destroy" or "target player sacrifices".
Azure Drake replaces Fighting Drake?
In the "interesting if true" category, White getting its hosers restricted to CoP:Red and CoP:Black now this shows Blue's hosers being restricted to card drawing (based on Forests/green cards or Mountains/red cards). Very interesting, but not in a good way.
No Bribery. And no Shackles. And now the Core Set counter list is down to Mana Leak and Remove Soul and Rewind...
not to bother anyone.. but somehow I'm not surprised by the fact that the blue part of the spoiler is the worst one.. or at least one of the worst ones... but regardless.. thanks for sharing it R_E and sources!
that's what really matters..
well.. white part.. ok.. blue one.. meh.. waiting for the others.. specially black and green
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"It is just that we should be grateful, not only to those with whose views we may agree, but also to those who have expressed more superficial views; for these also contributed something, by developing before us the powers of thought." ~Aristotle
Ravnica: City of Guilds' codename was "Control" ........... Control is generally blue or is best in blue.......O dear god......That's where all the good blue is going to be. It's in Ravinca.
By that logic, because Ravnica as block as CTRL+ALT+DEL that means they're going to reboot all of Magic afterwards too...
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By that logic, because Ravnica as block as CTRL+ALT+DEL that means they're going to reboot all of Magic afterwards too...
I just get the feeling WotC put a few cards in Ravnica, Guildpact, or the third set that will make blue control OMG F'N AWESOME
@people who are throwing a hissy fit about blue: WotC SAID THEY GOING TO MAKE BLUE WEAKER!!! This should have been expected. What? Did you want them to reprint Morphling or something of his ilk?
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I have to disagree that this is a weak list. At first glance, sure, the cards themselves aren't as powerful as other versions that have been printed in the past, but when you think for a second, it's a very well rounded list that represents the CORE of what blue is. Now they have more room in the block expansions to flesh out the intricacies of the color rather than being stuck rehashing cards to get a solid base down. It's like what they were talking about when they mentioned the Wrath of God issue awhile back.
@people who are throwing a hissy fit about blue: WotC SAID THEY GOING TO MAKE BLUE WEAKER!!! This should have been expected. What? Did you want them to reprint Morphling or something of his ilk?
well, i know I'm not the only one disappointed in this blue list, but it's good to see Plagiarize in a core set.
I find the card way better in a draw-go style of control deck, and it has amazing potential in casual and combo decks.
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Originally Posted by Green Arrow Yes I did, I wouldn't fully disagree with chronoplasam. Perhaps I do deserve toture. But who amongst us besides myself has what it takes to toture me?
Originally Posted by Highroller
Compared to what? I think compared to chocolate ice cream, women, unicorns, and kung fu, the state pretty much sucks.
now begins the thousand years of REIGN OF BLOOD!
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Still - blue will always be the best color, coz it's difficult to nerf down blue without actually killing it (they can't make Mana Leak into a sorcery to balance the power can they?).
And I play around with a Draw-Go deck which uses exactly 1 shackles, and it still kicks a$$ (never had the shackles in play even)....
"I got your blue right here" SMACK.
After picking myself up. Well this is dissapointing. can only hope Ravnica is going to put a smile back on my face cause 9th didn't.
I really want to see the pre-con for blue. I am having trouble imagining just how bad it could be.
Edit:
Okay the swelling has gone down a little and I spend a little more time looking at what we've got.
It's still a big pile but then blue was that in 8th. We've lost a couple of decent cards and got some poor replacements. Clone is kinda cool as mine were knicked a few years back.
I keep looking at the list and thinking of cards in other colours to go with it. That's annoying me right now but I can wait and see what else we get. At least traunmaitze might be an interseting board for the splice deck I'm having fun with just now. See cloud, silver lining 8^)
Who else can see the blue pre-con as a rehash of Sky slam (shiver) with Aven Windreader and thought courier?
Man I miss echoing truth already.
Traumatize: Sweet!
Tidings: Cheaper than Opportunity, better than Inspiration
Polymorph: Creature destruction in blue? Cool!
Clone: Super!
The bad and the ugly:
Bribery is out
Fugitive Wizard is still in...
... not to mention Horned Turtle
Fishliver Oil?
Battle of Wits? Why?
They must still think blue is too powerful.
My opinion on blue:
My opinion on the people who chose these cards:
This list is really weak. I can count the number of tournament worthy cards on one hand and have a digit or two left over. No instant speed card draw (think Red with no Shock - yeah, thought so), no Unsummon (Time Ebb would be ok, except for the fact that it costs 3...oh, and that it's a SORCERY), and a bunch of gimmicky (read: not good) cards like Polymorph, Traumatize, and Plagiarize? Well, I suppose Traumatize could be OK if library-depletion makes a comeback with Dampen Thought, but I doubt it. If WotC wanted to give blue the shaft, they did a pretty good job making sure there's almost nothing that's any good.
Too bad i likes B/G, Lets hope they don't get an okay pool (as in they need a good one).
Rosewater: "Color Pie, WTF is that, If I want Black to be able to wrath, counter and have green creatures then I will damnit!"
Random RnD guy: "RED AKORMA! FTW!"
Gleemax: "Rosewater has broken out of my mind control!"
RnD after 2008:
MaRo: Hmm how do we fix the problems of pricing with cards like Tarmogoyf and Thoughtsieze
Random RnD Guy: OO lets make a new RED RARITY SYMBOL!
MARO: OMGWTFBBQ! Thats a great idea, we'll call it Mythic Rarity!
Gleemax: NOT AGAIN!
CELEB
Nick: I lay a swamp, tap, dark ritual...
Me: If you cast a hypnotic specter I'll punch you in the face
Nick:...ahh I take 3 points of mana burn
The reason I play black according to CrovaxtheCursed:
The fact that blue steams doesn't mean that black, red or green will.
It doesn't matter that Shackles is an artifact. The more blue your deck is, the more Shackles is playable in it. It motivates players to play an all blue deck so they can keep out a max number of islands at all times. Aside from the shackles blue obviously has enough to stuff to make the deck work.
Tell that to Meloku. I agree with Zombie Carl *GASP* that the deck would still exist without Shackles, just on a different tier. As long as TNN is dominant countermagic based decks will be around as the most popular answer. MUC does, however, take a huge blow against its arch-nemesis with the loss of Bribery, its best sideboard card. The combined effect of this and Pithing Needle could very well knock the deck down a tier.
MUC itself is NOT a degenerate deck, but in an age of equality where the color pie is on the verge of being perfected a pure blue, pure control deck should not be this powerful. Blue, as the best support color, should not have the means to be self-sufficient. MUC's very existance goes against everything R&D has been working for and it only slipped through the cracks because they were all too distracted with Raffinity to care.
This weak Core Set for blue is a "nuclear option" to make sure that it doesn't happen again in the near future, and if they were truly ready to bring blue back to its glory days they would bring back Counterspell.
One (Mana Leak)
So much for the Vintage secondary market being affected in any way whatsoever.
Battle of Wits in a Core Set??? No way. That alone makes me doubt this, much as Paladin en-Vec did with the White. I just can't see Wizards encouraging the kiddies to play 200+ card decks...
Fishliver Oil???
I also have doubts about Polymorph going into a Core Set again. Yeah, they made Reweave recently and its basicly arcane Polymorph. But blue makes things die sooooooooo rarely that I just have trouble believing R&D would put a blue card in a Core Set that says "destroy" or "target player sacrifices".
Azure Drake replaces Fighting Drake?
In the "interesting if true" category, White getting its hosers restricted to CoP:Red and CoP:Black now this shows Blue's hosers being restricted to card drawing (based on Forests/green cards or Mountains/red cards). Very interesting, but not in a good way.
No Bribery. And no Shackles. And now the Core Set counter list is down to Mana Leak and Remove Soul and Rewind...
Sage Owl was much swanker than Sage Aven.
Such an uninspiring list...
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My MTG Blog (inactive)
GDS1 & GDS2 entrant. Former Rules Advisor & casual-level TO. Semi-lapsed player in general.
that's what really matters..
well.. white part.. ok.. blue one.. meh.. waiting for the others.. specially black and green
~Aristotle
By that logic, because Ravnica as block as CTRL+ALT+DEL that means they're going to reboot all of Magic afterwards too...
Sig banner by Xyre.
My MTG Blog (inactive)
GDS1 & GDS2 entrant. Former Rules Advisor & casual-level TO. Semi-lapsed player in general.
Owner of IcyGeek.com
I just get the feeling WotC put a few cards in Ravnica, Guildpact, or the third set that will make blue control OMG F'N AWESOME
@people who are throwing a hissy fit about blue: WotC SAID THEY GOING TO MAKE BLUE WEAKER!!! This should have been expected. What? Did you want them to reprint Morphling or something of his ilk?
Former Member but Friend 4Ever of the Random Bull***** Society
Former Chairman of Iron Chef Salvation
1st turn: Island
2nd turn: Swamp, Imaginary Pet
3rd turn: During upkeep, play ONE WITH NOTHING!!!! and keep your 4/4 beater....
Ok, so the blue list is pretty meh. Polymorph was a nice surprise, but Fishliver Oil? Ick.
Thanks for the list, RE and source....we can't very well shoot the messenger for this one.
Air Elemental, Mahomoti Djinn, and Cloudhoof Kirin all in standard...nice
Well it would be a start :grin2:
I find the card way better in a draw-go style of control deck, and it has amazing potential in casual and combo decks.
now begins the thousand years of REIGN OF BLOOD!