I definatly like this card, Im trying for a NeoErnhamGeddon. Fast enough you have an Iwamori, and doubly so with a Sword of F/I.
It may end up Jank, but I like it for now.
All I can say is that its IMPOSSIBLE to dismiss a card that depends on so many factors as crap. I'm sure after playing it in the FFL that wizards knows that this is a great sleeper rare.
While many good/ valid points were brought up with concerning the "sucki-ness" of this card, (red is traditionally an anti-hand color) (Bad for control/bad for agro.) ect. However, there are some decks out their called Ponza/Red Deck Wins and in Standard, R/G Control...Ponza effectivly combines Creatures with land eat. For the first several turns u crank out threats, Zo-Zu, Sith ect... then blast two to three lands away, last time i heard, killing two or three lands 4 four mana was good. Yes, yes, I know, I screws your mana base up too, however, there is a little term we all know as tempo. Settin your opponent back several turns is threatening at worst and game winning at best. Who cares if your lands are dead, they have nothing and you have creatures pounding aweay at thier faces. The other option is G/R Control, now we all know about a card called "Death Cloud" Right? In almost every sence this is a "bad" control card...you sac hand size, life, and even your lands. Yet it is played in mono B control and G/B control...This card is the same deal. You lose one advantage to futher another. Why does G/B control use death cloud? well it uses green to exel the cloud and afterward to pick up the pieces. Green can do this even better with red. Green not only has Sakura Tribe elder and Reach, but it also has Synergetic land eat.
I recall an artical on "mono" Green Control telling us that Plow under + Eternal Whitness= game. Essentaly This and Plow under are deadly for control, Green
promises that you will be able to recover quickly and keep a land eat oriented lock on an enemy.
Thats my two cents.
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Genesis Complete!!! 306/306
(Land centered mechanics Affinity for lands; Synergy with lands (Affinity for activated abilities)
(Extended-ish Power level) PM me if you are interested
Awakening ?/180: Features Domain, with more land comes more mastery over the elements. Channel and Growth are expanded making landcasting more interesting.
My thoughts, like other here was to combine this with Zo-Zu, Akki Raider, and other red goodies in a Geddonesque RDW type build, it's quite viable as you can be swinging for 10 on the forth turn with a well timed Raider - Thoughts of Ruin combo, and lockin it down with zo-zu in tow!
I'm not really that impressed. Red has zero mana acceleration, really, and doesn't really have any way to take advantage of this card. It's a COOL card, but, not that much of a powerful/useful card..IMO.
Same here. There's a chance this could be good but I guess it depends on the rest of the set, and how the format is affected by Saviors. Wouldn't it suck to play this and have your opponent sweet up a handful of land, and you're looking a bit silly for blowing up your half of the board. But there are some good plays with it, too. Say you draw:
1) Mountain, weenie
2) Mountain, weenie
3) Mountain, Ingot
4) Thoughts of Ruins (each player sacrifices 4 lands), Mountain, weenie
Your opponent loses all 4 of their lands, meanwhile you're sitting pretty with a couple mana sources and a few creatures in play, plus a few cards in hand... hard to say if they'll be able to recover from that.
That said, I don't predict a decktype to emerge from this card. I think it's cool because it's fairly simple, but I wouldn't likely play with it.
Nice card, i'm going to combine my WW with empyrial plate deck with my red gobbo sligh and get the most out of this card. imagine 1st turn plains isamaru, 2nd turn mountain empyrial plate then attack for 2, 3rd turn equip plate attack for 7 mountain, 4th turn attack for 8 plains thoughts of ruins. You'd have a massive hand and a massive creature and they'd have no land and if you went 1st at best a troll ascetic(without the mana to regen).
If this thing was 2WW instead of 2RR then I'd say it would be good. The reason being is because white has better weenies than red (duh). I also hate the fact that WotC didn't reprint Armageddon and instead we got this thing. Obviously, I don't like it.
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Currently playing:
Standard: Valakut (soon to change)
Cool things about me:
*3rd at Idaho regionals 2011
*1st at Salt Lake City regionals 2007
*2006 Idaho state champion of Two-Headed-Giant
*3rd place in Idaho State champs in 2009
*Made day 2 in GP Seattle/Tacoma (115th place) 2009.
in some ways it reminds me of the balancing act deck due to the environment. the problem is the early board advantage of red isnt as dominant as one would think. purely from a standard point of view this on turn 3 against TaN would wreck, but still would have trouble with MUC. Against UG or mono green? meh, pretty risky, their position is just as strong or even stronger (UG) in the early game.
Play first:
Turn 1 - Land, Mox, Slith, cards in hand - 3 (oof) - swing for 1
Turn 2 - Land (hopefully), Stone Rain - 2 (oof) - swing for 2
Turn 3 - probably no play, at best zo-zu or seething song arc slogger for the win.
so where do i blow up the world and does it matter?
Slow draw: say against TaN, no mox
Play first:
Turn 1 - Mountain
/ Turn 1 - Forest, Top
Turn 2 - Mountain (Slith)
/ Turn 2 - Urza's Mine, Scrying or Trellis or Sakura
Turn 3 - Mountain (at best Stone Rain, Zo-zu, Slith)
/ Turn 3 - Forest/Urza(3 mana with Sakura/Trellis, 2 if played scrying) - play witness, scrying, sakura, trellis
Turn 4 - If you played Sliths/Zo-zu proceed to blow up the world, if trellis/witness are out then its a tough call, i still would blow up the world 80% of the time.
mm...i like this card, makes me think.
Although mono R is inferior to RG now in the resiliency case.
Once again, Wizards has failed to show a card so controversial or powerful, that people can care less about it. They havent released a card or pic as crazy as the "9th Poster" that it got the whole MTG community chaotic. I really wished that poster was real, coz it created a mass frenzy that was so awesome!!! :biggrin3::grin2::biggrin3::grin2::biggrin3:
Yeah, because the only red card on that poster (Winds of Change) is so much better than this card.:rolleyes:
"I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein's brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops." - Stephen Jay Gould
Thank you man, someone had to say this, i mean, always is the same thing, with most of the previews, all so called "experts" say that the card sucks, just because it doesnt fit in the cards we already have
Thank you man, thank you
Exactly! The arguements for this card not seeing play due to it not fitting into the current format are ridiculous. A card with this much potential will make force its way into decks, even if it needs its own decktype. It happens all the time - remember when tooth came out? Immediate junk rare, right?:whatever: Necro, Tog, Mongrel, Armageddon, Cataclysm, Pox/Death Cloud...and so on....This happens all the time in magic. Please attempt to be a bit less short-sighted.
Seriously, I don't understand how anyone can think this card isn't very good. Never underestimate land destruction. For example, if a card costed 2RR and said each player sacs 2 lands, it could very well see play; compare that to this beast.
"I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein's brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops." - Stephen Jay Gould
How about:
Starting first
Turn 1 - Mountain, Aether Vial (5 cards in hand)
Turn 2 - Mountain, Talisman of impulse/indulgence (4).
Turn 3 - Boseiju (damn blue), Clasm, Raider, if you have another raider, drop it with the vial (1/2)
Turn 4 - Blow up 2-3 lands each side. Lay a mountain to crack the earth or shock away blockers.
I think this card is going to have a tough time finding a home in a deck. People will find that sentence about the number of cards in hand will actually matter, and that it is NOT even close to Armageddon. Unless of course this set gets crazy about the number of cards in players hands, and everyone is sitting with 6 or seven cards in hand most of the time. But that is just a block specific situation.
Enough games where you are top decking and you top deck this... it will make a player think 2rr... what could I put in that is going to have more effect for that amount of mana, 1 more mana and you get arc-slogger... or kumano... which do not need this card to win. Of the preview cards this a close second to Measeure of Whatever for unimpressiveness.
Comments like these make it fairly obvious why Necropotence was overlooked for so long.
1) A customizable Armageddon is a big boon to red deck builders everywhere.
2) Armageddon is a game ending spell. There are multiple opportunities to abuse this in block. Hell, people are using Heartbeat of Spring to power out Myojins in competitive decks, and some are using Sway of the Stars in other competitive decks. This is a miniature Sway of the Stars when done properly. Stabilize the board, float your mana, drop your win condition and waste the lands. Game over.
3) Just because YOUR red deck doesn't have more than 2 cards in its hand by turn 4 doesn't mean that it's not possible to make one.
4) Without being able to judge the card in the context of the set, it's impossible to gauge its power level. I doubt it's going to be orphaned, and even if it is, there are several viable strategies that exist with the cards we already have.
Get creative, guys.
Very well said. Regarding Necro, the same thing has happened with many other cards. Morphling didnt see type 2 play for over a year after its release. Other cards such as Rashadan Port and more recently, Tooth and Nail were both overlooked initially.
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"I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein's brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops." - Stephen Jay Gould
Exactly! The arguements for this card not seeing play due to it not fitting into the current format are ridiculous. A card with this much potential will make force its way into decks, even if it needs its own decktype. It happens all the time - remember when tooth came out? Immediate junk rare, right?:whatever: Necro, Tog, Mongrel, Armageddon, Cataclysm, Pox/Death Cloud...and so on....This happens all the time in magic. Please attempt to be a bit less short-sighted.
Every set has a bunch of cards with "potential" that never get used, though I wouldn't say that they get "overlooked" - people test them, and they suck. And, it's not because of the card, it's because of the environment. Even Mudhole would be a chase rare if it had the right backup, and that's what card evaluation is all about - figuring out which cards have a deck to back them up, and figuring out how that deck fits into the metagame.
This card doesn't immediately fit into any archetype that I know of, so we're just going to have to wait and see what else Saviors has to offer. It could absolutely be powerful if red has other spells that reward you for the number of cards in your hand, and it could be absolutely worthless if it doesn't.
Basically, people who are making predictions at this time (on either side) are being too hasty. That said, the people who are skeptical do have a point - this card has yet to prove itself. Once the set hits and people start playing, we'll see.
Some members here are being too hard on this card, IMHO... but then that seems to be the case most of the time with new cards. I even remember some "meh" responses to Eternal Witness, of all cards.
Thoughts of Ruin seems pretty nice to me - it's probably one of those cards you just need to play with to understand properly. Especially since in the new SOK environment there'll be lots of other reasons to keep some cards in hand, which will support this card.
Just wanted to point out, anyway, that not only will your Akki Raider get huge from this, but also your Akki Avalanchers - just float the mana, then sac all your lands to it to make it 7/1 or 9/1 or whatever, then nuke. This card is nice for the Kamigawa Sligh deck...
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It may end up Jank, but I like it for now.
Trading for four, for sure.
depending on what the red epic card does that couldbe a nice sick lock down (i'd like to assume that the red epic spell is a burn spell of some sort)
and (as has been mentioned...) the sweep mechanic could get nice with this...
-Cannibal-
Didn't we have someone assigned to do all of these?
-Goblinboy
no im pretty sure seds made the ruling that whoever posted first gets tp stay, the others get deleted
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I was gonna be but its hopeless to regulate. Nowadays I just hope for the best.
I have no extendo-sig. Sorry, I'm just not vain enough to think someone will click on it.
I recall an artical on "mono" Green Control telling us that Plow under + Eternal Whitness= game. Essentaly This and Plow under are deadly for control, Green
promises that you will be able to recover quickly and keep a land eat oriented lock on an enemy.
Thats my two cents.
Genesis Complete!!! 306/306
(Land centered mechanics Affinity for lands; Synergy with lands (Affinity for activated abilities)
(Extended-ish Power level) PM me if you are interested
Awakening ?/180: Features Domain, with more land comes more mastery over the elements. Channel and Growth are expanded making landcasting more interesting.
Edit: Wrong card in mind. mixed avalanchers with raiders.
<Qzilla> losing to girls at magic is such a high
Same here. There's a chance this could be good but I guess it depends on the rest of the set, and how the format is affected by Saviors. Wouldn't it suck to play this and have your opponent sweet up a handful of land, and you're looking a bit silly for blowing up your half of the board. But there are some good plays with it, too. Say you draw:
1) Mountain, weenie
2) Mountain, weenie
3) Mountain, Ingot
4) Thoughts of Ruins (each player sacrifices 4 lands), Mountain, weenie
Your opponent loses all 4 of their lands, meanwhile you're sitting pretty with a couple mana sources and a few creatures in play, plus a few cards in hand... hard to say if they'll be able to recover from that.
That said, I don't predict a decktype to emerge from this card. I think it's cool because it's fairly simple, but I wouldn't likely play with it.
.
Machius proudly supports R_E's right to Rumour!
Well, U/R Obliterate may actually be feasible now post-bannings... possibly with sexy moonfolk action (not counting meloku, of course) :grin2:
EDIT: by not counting meloku I mean it's a man, not that he shouldn't be in the deck
Standard: Valakut (soon to change)
Cool things about me:
*3rd at Idaho regionals 2011
*1st at Salt Lake City regionals 2007
*2006 Idaho state champion of Two-Headed-Giant
*3rd place in Idaho State champs in 2009
*Made day 2 in GP Seattle/Tacoma (115th place) 2009.
Play first:
Turn 1 - Land, Mox, Slith, cards in hand - 3 (oof) - swing for 1
Turn 2 - Land (hopefully), Stone Rain - 2 (oof) - swing for 2
Turn 3 - probably no play, at best zo-zu or seething song arc slogger for the win.
so where do i blow up the world and does it matter?
Slow draw: say against TaN, no mox
Play first:
Turn 1 - Mountain
/ Turn 1 - Forest, Top
Turn 2 - Mountain (Slith)
/ Turn 2 - Urza's Mine, Scrying or Trellis or Sakura
Turn 3 - Mountain (at best Stone Rain, Zo-zu, Slith)
/ Turn 3 - Forest/Urza(3 mana with Sakura/Trellis, 2 if played scrying) - play witness, scrying, sakura, trellis
Turn 4 - If you played Sliths/Zo-zu proceed to blow up the world, if trellis/witness are out then its a tough call, i still would blow up the world 80% of the time.
mm...i like this card, makes me think.
Although mono R is inferior to RG now in the resiliency case.
Yeah, because the only red card on that poster (Winds of Change) is so much better than this card.:rolleyes:
Exactly! The arguements for this card not seeing play due to it not fitting into the current format are ridiculous. A card with this much potential will make force its way into decks, even if it needs its own decktype. It happens all the time - remember when tooth came out? Immediate junk rare, right?:whatever: Necro, Tog, Mongrel, Armageddon, Cataclysm, Pox/Death Cloud...and so on....This happens all the time in magic. Please attempt to be a bit less short-sighted.
Seriously, I don't understand how anyone can think this card isn't very good. Never underestimate land destruction. For example, if a card costed 2RR and said each player sacs 2 lands, it could very well see play; compare that to this beast.
Starting first
Turn 1 - Mountain, Aether Vial (5 cards in hand)
Turn 2 - Mountain, Talisman of impulse/indulgence (4).
Turn 3 - Boseiju (damn blue), Clasm, Raider, if you have another raider, drop it with the vial (1/2)
Turn 4 - Blow up 2-3 lands each side. Lay a mountain to crack the earth or shock away blockers.
<Qzilla> losing to girls at magic is such a high
Enough games where you are top decking and you top deck this... it will make a player think 2rr... what could I put in that is going to have more effect for that amount of mana, 1 more mana and you get arc-slogger... or kumano... which do not need this card to win. Of the preview cards this a close second to Measeure of Whatever for unimpressiveness.
Very well said. Regarding Necro, the same thing has happened with many other cards. Morphling didnt see type 2 play for over a year after its release. Other cards such as Rashadan Port and more recently, Tooth and Nail were both overlooked initially.
sounds...................meh.
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This card doesn't immediately fit into any archetype that I know of, so we're just going to have to wait and see what else Saviors has to offer. It could absolutely be powerful if red has other spells that reward you for the number of cards in your hand, and it could be absolutely worthless if it doesn't.
Basically, people who are making predictions at this time (on either side) are being too hasty. That said, the people who are skeptical do have a point - this card has yet to prove itself. Once the set hits and people start playing, we'll see.
Thoughts of Ruin seems pretty nice to me - it's probably one of those cards you just need to play with to understand properly. Especially since in the new SOK environment there'll be lots of other reasons to keep some cards in hand, which will support this card.
Just wanted to point out, anyway, that not only will your Akki Raider get huge from this, but also your Akki Avalanchers - just float the mana, then sac all your lands to it to make it 7/1 or 9/1 or whatever, then nuke. This card is nice for the Kamigawa Sligh deck...