White is getting quite a bit better in this set, Ghostly Prison + Hokori... I don't see even Affinity running through that until they take out some part of it or wait until they get enough lands to put their tricks, essentially buying you an extra turn against them. But I've been overly optimistic about cards in the past so this might not make any difference to Raffinity at all.
I don't think anyone has mentioned the nice synergy between Blazing Shoals and Through the Breach - also Arcane.
Most people undervalued Tooth & Nail at first glance; I certainly didn't think much of Through the Breach. I doubt we'll see a tier I Through the Breach/ Blazing Shoals deck but there might be a half decent Heavy Legend count build possible with Black for some reanimator (Through the Breach requires sacrifice rather than removal from the game)
I have long argued that White Weenie needed disruption akin to Armaggedon before becoming a contender. Hokori will go a long way towards filling that need.
man man o man. those are such nice cards. im very happy with what we have seen so far. i havntbeen this excited about a set in a very long time.
if the red shoal is THAT powerful, then i wonder what the white and black ones are, as they were said to be the best two, and tourney quality. blazing shoal is sorta like a red hatred, only its way better. and hatred was a very popular card in its day. hatred cost 5 mana plus life loss.
IMO i would much rather lose 2 cards from my hand (and have card disadvantage) and deal X damage, then pay five mana, lose one card, and x life.
and besides, if your playing splices like glacial ray, im sure the disadvantage will have alreayd been made up;)
Blazing Shoal-Probally the best card from the list. Hopefully the white one won't be horrible.
In the Web of War-Doubtful that this will be played, ever.
Neko-Te -It's cute with Kumano but that's about it
Patron of the Moon-Great when you get it going. Looks like you 'could' create a soft lock with some of the Moonfolk out there with this guy.
Kyoki, Sanity's Eclipse-He's a demon and demons are cool :evil1:
Hokori, Dust Drinker-Just seems kind of sub par. Maybe it's that fact that he costs 4 compared to Winter Orb's 2 or maybe it's the fact that he's a 2/2.
Mistblade Shinobi-A decent common, a nice annoyance for limited.
Hmmm.... i for one am liking the diea of that shoal in a BROODSTAR affinity... what with the BS's massive cost, it is a very nice target, and since most BS affinities run atleast 3... its got a good chance of getting both of them, plus its FIRST TURNABLE!!!
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winter orb on a stick is a hott one! It's not as good as the original of course, but it is still a card to build around. I could imagine it in a white/green lock deck of some sort.
Everybody seems happy that the Winter Orb variant is a creature... but somewhere inside me I just wish it had been an Enchantment instead.
I'm quite happy with the Ninjas... there might just be a deck around them, coupled with creatures like Phantom Warrior and the like.
I like the Neko te... (isn't Neko japanese for cat?) It seems a natural fit for Tim and all the new red copycats.
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"You know that a conjurer gets no credit once he has explained his trick; and if I show you too much of my method of working, you will come to the conclusion that I am a very ordinary individual after all." - Sherlock Holmes
Neko is Japanese for "Cat", i think. Neko-Te roughly translates to "Cat Claws", unless I'm greatly mistakenNeko-Te are the things you always see Ninjas using in movies, helping them climb around. They look like their name (some look a bit like Wolverine's claws, others like a bunch of spikes on the palm)
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Some wonder why I carry 8 decks on me. The answer? I get tired of being boarded against in casual games, and 90% of the players I meet can't beat a jank deck I made to be tokens for a serious one.
i'm seeing the Shoal cycle as a really nice answer to the hand jam that multiple copies of a legend card can cause... already got a legend in play and the other one is sitting dormant inyour hand? use it with (insert Shoalcard here) to get a much needed effect)...
land screw and big chunky mana costs looking you in the face? insert Shoal card and watch the fun fly...
Wow these cards are certainly amazing. The red shoal should be a really good finisher. I play this on a 1/1 creature like battle mad ronin, who most people don't block anyways, discard the red myojin, you have 10 damage right to your face. Also Winter Orb as a creature should fit nicely into a white weenie deck.
Hmmm.... i for one am liking the diea of that shoal in a BROODSTAR affinity... what with the BS's massive cost, it is a very nice target, and since most BS affinities run atleast 3... its got a good chance of getting both of them, plus its FIRST TURNABLE!!!
I dont want to burst your bubble buddy but as with may here you are forgetting that it needs to be a RED card that is RFG as the alternate casting cost. that only leaves furnace dragon arc slogger kumano and ryesai(bad spelling i know) as targets that would warent this card. personally i would rather play pulse of the forge over this anyday as it creates card advantage.
the other cards are great solid cards though i havent seen anything that really jumps out other that the Worb Guy
Blazing Shoal: Pretty cool. While I still like Disrupting Shoal a bit better, this card is awesome and has the potential to see some serious constructed play in various red decks.
Neko-Te: Wow. This thing looks to be quite good in limited.
Horoki- Now we're talking. A winter orb on a stick (although at 4 mana) is quite good. This could lead to some serious deck revivals in the near future...
Mistblade- Sweet. While it does lack in serious P/T, it's ability to get in for one and unsummon/Man o-war (however you want to look at it) a creature is quite good for a common.
Awesome stuff. I'm liking this set more and more...
Hokori looks pretty awesome- Winter orb with legs. Of course the mana cost definetly could bring it down quite a bit.
I like the blue Ninjitsu otherwise most of these cards don't seem very good though. Neko-Te just won't see much play.
I like most of these cards, and like the quality over-all. Pictures would be nice, but we can't have it all. Either way, some awesome cards, especially that red one.
I have a Blazing Shoal in my hand and, say, some dumb 6cc dragon. Can I announce my Blazing Shoal, splice onto it with a glacial ray or two, and then remove the dragon from my hand?
More importantly:
I have the shoal and a single glacial ray in my hand. Can I announce my spell, splice glacial ray onto it, then remove the glacial ray (IE shock and +2,+0 until end of turn at instant speed for 2 cards and 0 mana?)
I don't think the timing would allow to to remove Glacial Ray to pay for Blazing Shoal and still be able to use the Splice onto Arcane ability, but I am pretty positive that you still have to at least pay the splice cost while splicing onto a shoal.
I don't think the timing would allow to to remove Glacial Ray to pay for Blazing Shoal and still be able to use the Splice onto Arcane ability, but I am pretty positive that you still have to at least pay the splice cost while splicing onto a shoal.
First things First, I *KNOW* you can discard spliced cards to pay for card costs (read CHK FAQs)
Second, according to the Saturday School crap (which yes, the guy gave wrong answers on the "sands" CHK card...) costs that lower the converted mana cost of a card apply AFTER splicing.
So... Trinisphere + Frogmite + 4 artifacts in play costs 0.
Glacial Ray spliced onto Wear Away with the green talisment in play costs GGR
And *IN THOERY* Shoals spliced with things payed for with the alternate casting cost are free. Of course, if this were the case, then it *SEEMS* as if you could also Fist of the Suns any arcane spell with unlimited splicing (x1 per card, mind you). And where as I wouldn't EXPECT it to work this way, I wouldn't expect the frogmite + etc to work that way either. Just like I wouldn't expect a Challice of the Void set at 2 to counter a Fireball for 1, but it does.
Hopefully, the "free" spells are not colorless when you pay their alternative costs, but they keep being good, mainly because you can do other things during your turn, spending your whole mana and then use them.
those spells will still be there respective colors, much like force of will is still a blue spell and can be countered by pyroblast and red elemental blast.
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First things First, I *KNOW* you can discard spliced cards to pay for card costs (read CHK FAQs)
Second, according to the Saturday School crap (which yes, the guy gave wrong answers on the "sands" CHK card...) costs that lower the converted mana cost of a card apply AFTER splicing.
So... Trinisphere + Frogmite + 4 artifacts in play costs 0.
Glacial Ray spliced onto Wear Away with the green talisment in play costs GGR
And *IN THOERY* Shoals spliced with things payed for with the alternate casting cost are free. Of course, if this were the case, then it *SEEMS* as if you could also Fist of the Suns any arcane spell with unlimited splicing (x1 per card, mind you). And where as I wouldn't EXPECT it to work this way, I wouldn't expect the frogmite + etc to work that way either. Just like I wouldn't expect a Challice of the Void set at 2 to counter a Fireball for 1, but it does.
Sorry man you are wrong. Trinisphere says explicitly ANY SPELL that would cost less than 3, costs 3. Thus Frogmite still costs 3. I am not sure what you are talking about with "the green talisment" but if you are referrign to the Mediallions, Glacial Ray is an additional cost and therefore not covered by the Medallions because splicing is not part of the mana cost of the spell (the little numbers in the upper right hand corner of a card).
And just to tell you, Splice works like Kicker. If you can cast Green spells for free, you still have to pay kicker because kicker is an additional cost, like Splice. Thus Splicing crap onto Shoals still takes mana. There isnt theory in Magic rules. The rules are always the same.
The fist of the suns trick doesnt work. The frogmite trick doesnt work. The chalice of the void thing works because, guess what, a fireball for 1 costs 1R and that is equivalent to 2. So its countered.
Its probably advisable to ask rules questions before blatantly posting false information.
As for the cards, the Shoal will probably be good, but creature pumping is inherently weak. I think the card will only find a home in some form of RedDeckWins in extended with a more bomb heavy curve, or a very, very aggressive minded Red deck (like Aggro Ponza) in either Extended or T2.
Horoki could very well be the boost white weenie needs to get back to a competitive level. How good it will remain to be seen, but it will die too easily to be too effective I think against any Red or Black decks. Against Blue, White, and Green it will be devastating.
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Burning through the night Two hundred degrees Thats why they call me "Mr Fahrenheit"
I don't see much synergy there, beyond TtB gives you an attacker that BS can pump.
Hey Remus
Here’s the synergy.
Blazing Shoal - XRR
Instant - Arcane
You may remove a red card with converted mana cost X in your hand from the game rather than pay Blazing Shoal's mana cost.
Target creature gets +X/+0 until end of turn.
Blazing Shoal works based on casting cost, right? So you want to use cards with high cc. I’ve seen people suggest using expensive cards like Furnace Dragon (9cc) or Ryusei, the Falling Star (6 cc) for the alternate costs to give target creature +9 or +6 via Blazing Shoal
The problem becomes what do you do with those high cc expensive cards clogging your hand if you don’t happen to draw Blazing Shoal. Enter Through The Breach
Through The Breach – 4R
Instant
Put a creature card from your hand into play. That creature has haste. Sacrifice that creature at end of turn.
Splice onto Arcane 2RR(As you play an Arcane spell, you may reveal this card from your hand and pay its splice cost. If you do, add this card’s effects to that spell.)
Notice it gives your creatures haste.
Let’s say I have Godo, Bandit Warlord, Through the Breach, Ryusei, the Falling Star and Blazing Shoal in hand.
I pay 4R for Through the Breach
drop Godo, Bandit Warlord into play
I pay R to attach Tenzo, Godo’s Maul (Godo is now 6/6 with trample, has haste and he attacks twice this round)
I remove Ryusei, the Falling Star from my hand and pay R for the remaining mana cost for Blazing Shoal targeting Godo
Godo is now a 10/10 with haste and trample that attacks twice in one turn.
So for 4RRR I can do 20 points of trample damage in one turn
You obviously won’t have a hand like this every time. Sometimes you will get stuck with 6 cc plus cards and no enablers. The synergy is that Through the Breach is basically copies number 5-8 of Blazing Shoal. It is an outlet for uber expensive cards.
Quote from Elpadregrande »
[QUOTE=ukmuggles]I don't think anyone has mentioned the nice synergy between Blazing Shoals and Through the Breach - also Arcane.
[QUOTE]
Really hope you don't mean splicing the breach on the shoals and pumping the creature you put into play because it wouldn't work.
Elpadregrande,
Now as far as arcane is concerned, no, I didn’t mean splice Through the Breach onto Blazing Shoals. I know you need a target first. What I meant is that in deck with Blazing Shoals you will need to be able to clear a path for your attacker before you pump them with Blazing Shoals. Being able to splice Glacial Ray onto Blazing Shoals will clear the way.
Turn 1, Mountain mox, play Slith Fire Walker (attack for 1)
Turn 2, Mountain, Remove Furnace Dragon from the game for Burning Shoal, Target Slith Fire Walker for +7, pay 1R to splice Glacial Ray onto Burning Shoal, deal 2 damage to a blocker, attack with your 9/2 Slith (10 damage 2 turns).
Turn 3, Mountain your opponent’s on 10 life, attack with your 3/3 Slith, hard cast Glacial ray for 2 pts damage to the dome (opponent at 5 life) then shrapnel blast your mox for another 5 pts killing your opponent.
Yes, Yes, this is all very unlikely. It assumes your opponent is doing very little to stop you and that you have the right cards in hand. My only point is that you will need some low cc burn in the early game. Why not use Glacial Ray to splice onto your other Arcane spells.
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Most people undervalued Tooth & Nail at first glance; I certainly didn't think much of Through the Breach. I doubt we'll see a tier I Through the Breach/ Blazing Shoals deck but there might be a half decent Heavy Legend count build possible with Black for some reanimator (Through the Breach requires sacrifice rather than removal from the game)
I have long argued that White Weenie needed disruption akin to Armaggedon before becoming a contender. Hokori will go a long way towards filling that need.
A reusable MoW...for :symu:...common... *has a seizure*
I officially LOVE this block!!
Record: 3-2
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I don't see much synergy there, beyond TtB gives you an attacker that BS can pump.
I do, however, see a lot of synergy between Blazing Shoals and Soulblast. Pretty, burny synergy.
With both ninja and Blazing Shoals out there in block and standard, is anyone ever going to let a creature go unblocked again?
Life is funny. Death is funnier. Mass slaughter can be hilarious.
[QUOTE]
Really hope you don't mean splicing the breach on the shoals and pumping the creature you put into play because it wouldn't work.
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if the red shoal is THAT powerful, then i wonder what the white and black ones are, as they were said to be the best two, and tourney quality. blazing shoal is sorta like a red hatred, only its way better. and hatred was a very popular card in its day. hatred cost 5 mana plus life loss.
IMO i would much rather lose 2 cards from my hand (and have card disadvantage) and deal X damage, then pay five mana, lose one card, and x life.
and besides, if your playing splices like glacial ray, im sure the disadvantage will have alreayd been made up;)
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MEGAMATT
In the Web of War-Doubtful that this will be played, ever.
Neko-Te -It's cute with Kumano but that's about it
Patron of the Moon-Great when you get it going. Looks like you 'could' create a soft lock with some of the Moonfolk out there with this guy.
Kyoki, Sanity's Eclipse-He's a demon and demons are cool :evil1:
Hokori, Dust Drinker-Just seems kind of sub par. Maybe it's that fact that he costs 4 compared to Winter Orb's 2 or maybe it's the fact that he's a 2/2.
Mistblade Shinobi-A decent common, a nice annoyance for limited.
The bullet of justice caps evil's a$$.
I'm quite happy with the Ninjas... there might just be a deck around them, coupled with creatures like Phantom Warrior and the like.
I like the Neko te... (isn't Neko japanese for cat?) It seems a natural fit for Tim and all the new red copycats.
land screw and big chunky mana costs looking you in the face? insert Shoal card and watch the fun fly...
at least, that's my take on it...
-Cannibal-
I dont want to burst your bubble buddy but as with may here you are forgetting that it needs to be a RED card that is RFG as the alternate casting cost. that only leaves furnace dragon arc slogger kumano and ryesai(bad spelling i know) as targets that would warent this card. personally i would rather play pulse of the forge over this anyday as it creates card advantage.
the other cards are great solid cards though i havent seen anything that really jumps out other that the Worb Guy
Turn1: Ornithopter
Turn2: Attack and play 2 Blazing Shoals, removing 2 Myojin of Infinite Rage.
20 damage, Turn 2, No Lands!
Blazing Shoal: Pretty cool. While I still like Disrupting Shoal a bit better, this card is awesome and has the potential to see some serious constructed play in various red decks.
Neko-Te: Wow. This thing looks to be quite good in limited.
Horoki- Now we're talking. A winter orb on a stick (although at 4 mana) is quite good. This could lead to some serious deck revivals in the near future...
Mistblade- Sweet. While it does lack in serious P/T, it's ability to get in for one and unsummon/Man o-war (however you want to look at it) a creature is quite good for a common.
Awesome stuff. I'm liking this set more and more...
I like the blue Ninjitsu otherwise most of these cards don't seem very good though. Neko-Te just won't see much play.
I don't think the timing would allow to to remove Glacial Ray to pay for Blazing Shoal and still be able to use the Splice onto Arcane ability, but I am pretty positive that you still have to at least pay the splice cost while splicing onto a shoal.
First things First, I *KNOW* you can discard spliced cards to pay for card costs (read CHK FAQs)
Second, according to the Saturday School crap (which yes, the guy gave wrong answers on the "sands" CHK card...) costs that lower the converted mana cost of a card apply AFTER splicing.
So... Trinisphere + Frogmite + 4 artifacts in play costs 0.
Glacial Ray spliced onto Wear Away with the green talisment in play costs GGR
And *IN THOERY* Shoals spliced with things payed for with the alternate casting cost are free. Of course, if this were the case, then it *SEEMS* as if you could also Fist of the Suns any arcane spell with unlimited splicing (x1 per card, mind you). And where as I wouldn't EXPECT it to work this way, I wouldn't expect the frogmite + etc to work that way either. Just like I wouldn't expect a Challice of the Void set at 2 to counter a Fireball for 1, but it does.
Oxidize = your dead.
those spells will still be there respective colors, much like force of will is still a blue spell and can be countered by pyroblast and red elemental blast.
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A truly great petition
And A Bullet To The Forehead = You're Dead
so what's your point?
Sorry man you are wrong. Trinisphere says explicitly ANY SPELL that would cost less than 3, costs 3. Thus Frogmite still costs 3. I am not sure what you are talking about with "the green talisment" but if you are referrign to the Mediallions, Glacial Ray is an additional cost and therefore not covered by the Medallions because splicing is not part of the mana cost of the spell (the little numbers in the upper right hand corner of a card).
And just to tell you, Splice works like Kicker. If you can cast Green spells for free, you still have to pay kicker because kicker is an additional cost, like Splice. Thus Splicing crap onto Shoals still takes mana. There isnt theory in Magic rules. The rules are always the same.
The fist of the suns trick doesnt work. The frogmite trick doesnt work. The chalice of the void thing works because, guess what, a fireball for 1 costs 1R and that is equivalent to 2. So its countered.
Its probably advisable to ask rules questions before blatantly posting false information.
As for the cards, the Shoal will probably be good, but creature pumping is inherently weak. I think the card will only find a home in some form of RedDeckWins in extended with a more bomb heavy curve, or a very, very aggressive minded Red deck (like Aggro Ponza) in either Extended or T2.
Horoki could very well be the boost white weenie needs to get back to a competitive level. How good it will remain to be seen, but it will die too easily to be too effective I think against any Red or Black decks. Against Blue, White, and Green it will be devastating.
Two hundred degrees
Thats why they call me "Mr Fahrenheit"
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Hey Remus
Here’s the synergy.
Blazing Shoal - XRR
Instant - Arcane
You may remove a red card with converted mana cost X in your hand from the game rather than pay Blazing Shoal's mana cost.
Target creature gets +X/+0 until end of turn.
Blazing Shoal works based on casting cost, right? So you want to use cards with high cc. I’ve seen people suggest using expensive cards like Furnace Dragon (9cc) or Ryusei, the Falling Star (6 cc) for the alternate costs to give target creature +9 or +6 via Blazing Shoal
The problem becomes what do you do with those high cc expensive cards clogging your hand if you don’t happen to draw Blazing Shoal. Enter Through The Breach
Through The Breach – 4R
Instant
Put a creature card from your hand into play. That creature has haste. Sacrifice that creature at end of turn.
Splice onto Arcane 2RR(As you play an Arcane spell, you may reveal this card from your hand and pay its splice cost. If you do, add this card’s effects to that spell.)
Notice it gives your creatures haste.
Let’s say I have Godo, Bandit Warlord, Through the Breach, Ryusei, the Falling Star and Blazing Shoal in hand.
I pay 4R for Through the Breach
drop Godo, Bandit Warlord into play
I pay R to attach Tenzo, Godo’s Maul (Godo is now 6/6 with trample, has haste and he attacks twice this round)
I remove Ryusei, the Falling Star from my hand and pay R for the remaining mana cost for Blazing Shoal targeting Godo
Godo is now a 10/10 with haste and trample that attacks twice in one turn.
So for 4RRR I can do 20 points of trample damage in one turn
You obviously won’t have a hand like this every time. Sometimes you will get stuck with 6 cc plus cards and no enablers. The synergy is that Through the Breach is basically copies number 5-8 of Blazing Shoal. It is an outlet for uber expensive cards.
Elpadregrande,
Now as far as arcane is concerned, no, I didn’t mean splice Through the Breach onto Blazing Shoals. I know you need a target first. What I meant is that in deck with Blazing Shoals you will need to be able to clear a path for your attacker before you pump them with Blazing Shoals. Being able to splice Glacial Ray onto Blazing Shoals will clear the way.
Turn 1, Mountain mox, play Slith Fire Walker (attack for 1)
Turn 2, Mountain, Remove Furnace Dragon from the game for Burning Shoal, Target Slith Fire Walker for +7, pay 1R to splice Glacial Ray onto Burning Shoal, deal 2 damage to a blocker, attack with your 9/2 Slith (10 damage 2 turns).
Turn 3, Mountain your opponent’s on 10 life, attack with your 3/3 Slith, hard cast Glacial ray for 2 pts damage to the dome (opponent at 5 life) then shrapnel blast your mox for another 5 pts killing your opponent.
Yes, Yes, this is all very unlikely. It assumes your opponent is doing very little to stop you and that you have the right cards in hand. My only point is that you will need some low cc burn in the early game. Why not use Glacial Ray to splice onto your other Arcane spells.