I must agree, using a keyword for something THAT specific seems a little overboard....I like generic keywords that can be used on many cards (cycling) or for many different things (imprint). Could you imagine if they keyworded the Bringer's alternate cost?
Akki Super-LD Fun Fun Binko Bits Attacker: Not very inspiring- a 2/1 for 2 that gets +1/+0 doesn't speak to me that much. The other dudes didn't see much limited shwag and I can only assume the same for this number. This card doesn't warrant standard play. My guess? Will not see play.
Akki Super Spirit of Infernal Justice: My problem with him is that in pretty much all formats, the only playable Goblin is Kiki Jiki.
Overall, neither is very exciting to me.
Well, do we KNOW that it will be lmited to those five Patrons? (Although it's likely.) But perhaps we could get "class" patrons in SOK (unlike "race patrons" in BOK). Or some Spirit Patrons.
I think we will see some more patrons (at least one) in SOK, like we got 1 Modular critter in Fifth Dawn.
Ooo... A cycle of Patrons could be interesting. I'm looking forward to finding out what the others are.
This one isn't bad - I'll have to mess with it in my Goblin deck to see how it does, though. Not sure. I like the acceleration concept of basically banking mana into a smaller creature to get the bigger creature out sooner. Nice potential with cards that trigger on graveyard, etc.
What we're doing here is akin to taking the text of Moby Dick, locating specific words therein, rearranging them to create a passage from Fight Club, and concluding from this evidence that Tyler Durden is based on Ahab.
The Patron COULD be good, but only as a bombastic finisher in place of Bidding. At least the Patron serves as counterbait, allowing you to cast the bidding or Seige-Gang next turn without worry.
First one? Bleh. Not even good in Ponza. Only way it would be halfway decent would be with Geddon.
I'll go out on a limb and say that they are making abilities like this to revisit some day. Opening more design space by make more keywords. Lets see if it works out.
Of course that's what they're doing, but I don't think they should try to do it so hard. By making keywords for the sole purpose of bringing them back later they're actually closing off design space. To make matters worse, they now have two different types of keywords. Ones they intend to bring back, and ones that they don't. This is wrong. Take Soulshift for example. Soulshift specifically references spirits. This is fine for the spirit centered Kamigawa block, but anywhere else it doesn't make much sense. It would be so easy to make Soulshift get a card that shared a creature type, or have it specify spirits in the keyword, like Spiritshift, so that it could be used later on other creature types. They didn't do this. Their policy seems to be "If a keyworded mechanic is to be used later, print about 10 cards with it and keep well away from diversity, but if there are no plans to use it later, make sure that it can never be used again". Instead of making mechanics specifically to reprint, they should alter other mechanics so they can be reprinted.
I agree with mage on this one, soulshift could have been a very interesting mechanic later on with a different creature type, and it works just as well flavor wise as spiritshift. R&D needs to make an effort to prevent instances that they can, such as soulshift. Theyve done a good job of doing that with affinity, cycling, this offering and others.
I'll go out on a limb and say that they are making abilities like this to revisit some day. Opening more design space by make more keywords. Lets see if it works out.
Of course that's what they're doing, but I don't think they should try to do it so hard. By making keywords for the sole purpose of bringing them back later they're actually closing off design space. To make matters worse, they now have two different types of keywords. Ones they intend to bring back, and ones that they don't. This is wrong. Take Soulshift for example. Soulshift specifically references spirits. This is fine for the spirit centered Kamigawa block, but anywhere else it doesn't make much sense. It would be so easy to make Soulshift get a card that shared a creature type, or have it specify spirits in the keyword, like Spiritshift, so that it could be used later on other creature types. They didn't do this. Their policy seems to be "If a keyworded mechanic is to be used later, print about 10 cards with it and keep well away from diversity, but if there are no plans to use it later, make sure that it can never be used again". Instead of making mechanics specifically to reprint, they should alter other mechanics so they can be reprinted.
I could see a sequal to Kamigawa. I mean wizards could revisit pretty much any world they wanted to really. Of course if said world has been destroy it may be harder, but you've always got alternate universes and time travel.
I could see a sequal to Kamigawa. I mean wizards could revisit pretty much any world they wanted to really. Of course if said world has been destroy it may be harder, but you've always got alternate universes and time travel.
Yes, but the point is that would be pretty much the only way they could bring back Soulshift (even if there was a strong spirit theme in another block, including Soulshift would just make it seem like a Kamigawa repeat). The whole point of bringing back mechanics is to see how they work in different environments. Cycling, for example, was taken from Urza's block to the very very different Onslaught block. Having the strong spirit theme necessary to justify soulshift makes the environment that much closer to the original Kamigawa environment, and it still restricts where Soulshift can show up.
Like so many other Kamigawa cards, they're mediocre at best in constructed but playable in limited with the patron being an absolute bomb. This also sheds some light as to what Patron of the Nezumi is going to do.
Patron of the Nezumi :4mana::symb::symb:
Legendary Creature - Spirit
Rat Offering
[Some kind of black related ability that helps your creatures]
5/5?
Since the Patrons appear to be for the iconic races of this block, it would be a reasonable guess that the other three are for the Orochi, Soratami, and Kitsune. Just my $.02.
Edit: Woops, didn't notice we had two more patrons on the partial spoiler. Not much point speculating about cards we already know.
As weve come acustomed to this block 2/1 or 2/* for 2 become importent as anything in limited. It ablity does go well with the Red Myojin or Akki Avalaunchers.
As for the patron WOW.
If this is the best one, and other good goblins emerge, this could help red be fully playable.
I can see
Patron of Nezumi-rat
Patron of Orochi-snake
Patron of Sorotami-moonfolk
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Everyone like a pirate.:apirate:
[funky music] Mario: Let me put it in a little bit. Both: Just the tip!
Like so many other Kamigawa cards, they're mediocre at best in constructed but playable in limited with the patron being an absolute bomb. This also sheds some light as to what Patron of the Nezumi is going to do.
Patron of the Nezumi :4mana::symb::symb:
Legendary Creature - Spirit
Rat Offering
[Some kind of black related ability that helps your creatures]
5/5?
Since the Patrons appear to be for the iconic races of this block, it would be a reasonable guess that the other three are for the Orochi, Soratami, and Kitsune. Just my $.02.
Edit: Woops, didn't notice we had two more patrons on the partial spoiler. Not much point speculating about cards we already know.
From a lavor standpoint, the black one would be best as a Demon Spirit with Ogre Offering.
nah i'm kidding its ok. Some people have mentioned a goblin sligh and i have to say, after testing with akki avalanchers (which are sweeter than I'd expect) it might just happen. Don't get your hopes up though
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Like so many other Kamigawa cards, they're mediocre at best in constructed but playable in limited with the patron being an absolute bomb. This also sheds some light as to what Patron of the Nezumi is going to do.
Patron of the Nezumi :4mana::symb::symb:
Legendary Creature - Spirit
Rat Offering
[Some kind of black related ability that helps your creatures]
5/5?
Since the Patrons appear to be for the iconic races of this block, it would be a reasonable guess that the other three are for the Orochi, Soratami, and Kitsune. Just my $.02.
Edit: Woops, didn't notice we had two more patrons on the partial spoiler. Not much point speculating about cards we already know.
From a lavor standpoint, the black one would be best as a Demon Spirit with Ogre Offering.
A Patron of the O-Bakemono... that would be sweet. >:D
I agree with mage on this one, soulshift could have been a very interesting mechanic later on with a different creature type, and it works just as well flavor wise as spiritshift. R&D needs to make an effort to prevent instances that they can, such as soulshift. Theyve done a good job of doing that with affinity, cycling, this offering and others.
*Good creature Keywords:
Provoke
Flying
Trample
Vigilance
Defender
X walk.
*Iffy creature Keywords:
First Strike
Double Strike
Protection from X (maybe X Protection? Actually, it's just too many things for one keyword)
Regeneration (which isn't so much a keyword as an activated ability that's been keyworded)
*HORRIBLE creature Keywords:
Amplify # (WTF? I can't ampliy my spells, but I can amplify my pet dragon? WTF?)
Ninjitsu (see... you can't counter it... and my guy's attacking! BRILLIANT!)
Soulshift [bad templating. SHould have been Soulshift - Spirit, Soulshift - Goblin, etc).
Flanking [Should be Flanking # and not care about opponents' creature having flanking]
Banding
Bushido # [1. Should be cumulative, Bushido 1 + Bushido 1 =Bushido 2, not "Bushido 1 + Bushido 1". Stifle effects don't matter as much, but it's annoying. 2. SHould be retroactive. I could give a shit if my samurai knew it or not.]
Modular # (where as the coming into play ability's cool, the exiting ability is pretty much poorly done. Random and confusing even).
*Creature keywords NEEDED:
Vampirism # (Sengir ability keyworded)
Web (I miss that game)
Last Strike (after combat deals damage, instead of before)
Spiritcraft
Nightmare - X (nightmare ability)
*Good overall Keywords:
Cycling (poor name)
Buyback (poorer name)
Kicker (my god, what were they smoking when they came up with this name?)[Bad templating. It should have been Kicker - cost - effect, with multiple kickers instead of "and/or" crap]
Imprint (good name, poorly done)[Bad templating. Should have been: "Imprint - card in your hand", not "Imprint - when this comes into play, remove a card in your hand from the game"
Echo.
Threshold (could have been Threshold #, but whatever)
*Iffy Keywords:
Morph (I'm sorry... it's a 2/2 for 3? How's that even remotely common sense? I could see a 1/1 for 1. I could even see an "unknown/unknown" for X, but this is just too random)
Affinity for X [This really should either count all X in play, or all X your opponent controls, not all your X. From a flavor standpoint, isn't your broodstar attracted by your opponent's artifacts? From a design perspective, mirror decks would become super fast matches, while different decks would require more mana to cast things Myr Enforcer would be 8-9, Frogmite maybe 4... or 5, and Thoughtcast could remain the same.]
X Offering [Ninjitsu, though poorly named, was essentially "replace 1 creature w/ another". Offering is "sac a creature for an uncounterable effect... oh, and have it at instant speed." The idea of having it at instant speed makes it no longer just mana accelerating, but it makes it combat tricks/etc.
*NEEDED KEYWORDS
Instance (You may play this at any time you can play an instant. Creatures, artifacts, enchantments. Sometimes on Sorceries; which may read like "Instance (2)" or something)
Bringer (Well maybe named something else, but this was a cycle that needed a keyword. Actually...
"Alternate Casting Cost: X" (BWRGU. is the bringer cost, return 2 islands is Gush's cost. This needs a snappy keyword)
"Additional Casting Cost" - Actually, they just need to put an additional box with an ACC symbol (dollar sign?) and list what needs to be done.
Untargetable (well, that was simple).
Untargetable by opponent's effects (well, now we're quibiling, this is just indestructible termonology here...)
Is there any possibility of Goblin Ninjas? Or is that way out of flavor?
As out of Flavor as a Goblin Assassin...
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
As for the card, Offering is a rather interesting ability... It's a good name, it sounds like some sort of dark ritual sacrifice to summon something (Offering)... And that's pretty much what it is...
Rather than stupid names like Bushido and Ninjitsu, Offering is actually decent...
[quote=Father_Goblin]
Rather than stupid names like Bushido and Ninjitsu, Offering is actually decent...
Bushido fits, and is a solid name. CHub toad should have it though.
Ninjitsu is stupid.
Offering *SHOULD* be a black or green ability excusively. As it's not, it's out of flavor.
I think one of the MTG.com writers explained that they would keyword mechanics in mid-block sets more. For example, if Shivan Wurm would be created today, it would read:
hmm...with six mana available, play siege-gang, eot of opponent sac siege-gang and pay 1 for patron, attack with patron + 3 tokens = 7 + 3*3 = 16 damage....ouch!
if you go extended, goblin marshal get patron for free, and 4 tokens instead...7 + 3*4 = 19 damage...not too shabby in some reanimator casual combo
I like the patrons... but doesn't it seem kinda food chainish?
Is that a bad thing?
I like it. It is, however, very strong. I think the patrons are most definitely worth playing in limited. This guy is a 7/5 when attacking, and it'll be fairly common to get him down on turn 4 or so. That's pretty impressive.
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Dacarnix
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Don't say I'm out of touch with this rampant chaos - your reality
I know well what lies beyond my sleeping refuge - the nightmare I built my own world to escape
from "Imaginary" by Evanescence
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Akki Super Spirit of Infernal Justice: My problem with him is that in pretty much all formats, the only playable Goblin is Kiki Jiki.
Overall, neither is very exciting to me.
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I think we will see some more patrons (at least one) in SOK, like we got 1 Modular critter in Fifth Dawn.
This one isn't bad - I'll have to mess with it in my Goblin deck to see how it does, though. Not sure. I like the acceleration concept of basically banking mana into a smaller creature to get the bigger creature out sooner. Nice potential with cards that trigger on graveyard, etc.
Rabit
Haha, my thoughts exactly.
Not sure I like the "offering" thing at all, but we'll see.
Guildmaster Jarad
First one? Bleh. Not even good in Ponza. Only way it would be halfway decent would be with Geddon.
Of course that's what they're doing, but I don't think they should try to do it so hard. By making keywords for the sole purpose of bringing them back later they're actually closing off design space. To make matters worse, they now have two different types of keywords. Ones they intend to bring back, and ones that they don't. This is wrong. Take Soulshift for example. Soulshift specifically references spirits. This is fine for the spirit centered Kamigawa block, but anywhere else it doesn't make much sense. It would be so easy to make Soulshift get a card that shared a creature type, or have it specify spirits in the keyword, like Spiritshift, so that it could be used later on other creature types. They didn't do this. Their policy seems to be "If a keyworded mechanic is to be used later, print about 10 cards with it and keep well away from diversity, but if there are no plans to use it later, make sure that it can never be used again". Instead of making mechanics specifically to reprint, they should alter other mechanics so they can be reprinted.
Yes, but the point is that would be pretty much the only way they could bring back Soulshift (even if there was a strong spirit theme in another block, including Soulshift would just make it seem like a Kamigawa repeat). The whole point of bringing back mechanics is to see how they work in different environments. Cycling, for example, was taken from Urza's block to the very very different Onslaught block. Having the strong spirit theme necessary to justify soulshift makes the environment that much closer to the original Kamigawa environment, and it still restricts where Soulshift can show up.
Patron of the Nezumi :4mana::symb::symb:
Legendary Creature - Spirit
Rat Offering
[Some kind of black related ability that helps your creatures]
5/5?
Since the Patrons appear to be for the iconic races of this block, it would be a reasonable guess that the other three are for the Orochi, Soratami, and Kitsune. Just my $.02.
Edit: Woops, didn't notice we had two more patrons on the partial spoiler. Not much point speculating about cards we already know.
As for the patron WOW.
If this is the best one, and other good goblins emerge, this could help red be fully playable.
I can see
Patron of Nezumi-rat
Patron of Orochi-snake
Patron of Sorotami-moonfolk
[funky music]
Mario: Let me put it in a little bit.
Both: Just the tip!
From a lavor standpoint, the black one would be best as a Demon Spirit with Ogre Offering.
Official Weenie chef of ARD
Do you rogue? Accepting new members now!
(:symrg:.:symrg:)
c(> <)
U U
A Patron of the O-Bakemono... that would be sweet. >:D
R Citizen Cane (Feldon of the Third Path)
*Good creature Keywords:
Provoke
Flying
Trample
Vigilance
Defender
X walk.
*Iffy creature Keywords:
First Strike
Double Strike
Protection from X (maybe X Protection? Actually, it's just too many things for one keyword)
Regeneration (which isn't so much a keyword as an activated ability that's been keyworded)
*HORRIBLE creature Keywords:
Amplify # (WTF? I can't ampliy my spells, but I can amplify my pet dragon? WTF?)
Ninjitsu (see... you can't counter it... and my guy's attacking! BRILLIANT!)
Soulshift [bad templating. SHould have been Soulshift - Spirit, Soulshift - Goblin, etc).
Flanking [Should be Flanking # and not care about opponents' creature having flanking]
Banding
Bushido # [1. Should be cumulative, Bushido 1 + Bushido 1 =Bushido 2, not "Bushido 1 + Bushido 1". Stifle effects don't matter as much, but it's annoying. 2. SHould be retroactive. I could give a shit if my samurai knew it or not.]
Modular # (where as the coming into play ability's cool, the exiting ability is pretty much poorly done. Random and confusing even).
*Creature keywords NEEDED:
Vampirism # (Sengir ability keyworded)
Web (I miss that game)
Last Strike (after combat deals damage, instead of before)
Spiritcraft
Nightmare - X (nightmare ability)
*Good overall Keywords:
Cycling (poor name)
Buyback (poorer name)
Kicker (my god, what were they smoking when they came up with this name?)[Bad templating. It should have been Kicker - cost - effect, with multiple kickers instead of "and/or" crap]
Imprint (good name, poorly done)[Bad templating. Should have been: "Imprint - card in your hand", not "Imprint - when this comes into play, remove a card in your hand from the game"
Echo.
Threshold (could have been Threshold #, but whatever)
*Iffy Keywords:
Morph (I'm sorry... it's a 2/2 for 3? How's that even remotely common sense? I could see a 1/1 for 1. I could even see an "unknown/unknown" for X, but this is just too random)
Affinity for X [This really should either count all X in play, or all X your opponent controls, not all your X. From a flavor standpoint, isn't your broodstar attracted by your opponent's artifacts? From a design perspective, mirror decks would become super fast matches, while different decks would require more mana to cast things Myr Enforcer would be 8-9, Frogmite maybe 4... or 5, and Thoughtcast could remain the same.]
X Offering [Ninjitsu, though poorly named, was essentially "replace 1 creature w/ another". Offering is "sac a creature for an uncounterable effect... oh, and have it at instant speed." The idea of having it at instant speed makes it no longer just mana accelerating, but it makes it combat tricks/etc.
*NEEDED KEYWORDS
Instance (You may play this at any time you can play an instant. Creatures, artifacts, enchantments. Sometimes on Sorceries; which may read like "Instance (2)" or something)
Bringer (Well maybe named something else, but this was a cycle that needed a keyword. Actually...
"Alternate Casting Cost: X" (BWRGU. is the bringer cost, return 2 islands is Gush's cost. This needs a snappy keyword)
"Additional Casting Cost" - Actually, they just need to put an additional box with an ACC symbol (dollar sign?) and list what needs to be done.
Untargetable (well, that was simple).
Untargetable by opponent's effects (well, now we're quibiling, this is just indestructible termonology here...)
As out of Flavor as a Goblin Assassin...
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
As for the card, Offering is a rather interesting ability... It's a good name, it sounds like some sort of dark ritual sacrifice to summon something (Offering)... And that's pretty much what it is...
Rather than stupid names like Bushido and Ninjitsu, Offering is actually decent...
Bushido fits, and is a solid name. CHub toad should have it though.
Ninjitsu is stupid.
Offering *SHOULD* be a black or green ability excusively. As it's not, it's out of flavor.
Pfft... Goblin Assassin is in flavor...
Shivan Wurm - :3mana::symr::symg:
Creature - Wurm
Trample
Gating
7/7
The first instance of this was Gotcha! in Unhinged.
if you go extended, goblin marshal get patron for free, and 4 tokens instead...7 + 3*4 = 19 damage...not too shabby in some reanimator casual combo
Is that a bad thing?
I like it. It is, however, very strong. I think the patrons are most definitely worth playing in limited. This guy is a 7/5 when attacking, and it'll be fairly common to get him down on turn 4 or so. That's pretty impressive.
------------------
Don't say I'm out of touch with this rampant chaos - your reality
I know well what lies beyond my sleeping refuge - the nightmare I built my own world to escape
from "Imaginary" by Evanescence