"about single sets separately, this has be done for some simple reasons
1) not everyone is interested in downloading every set."
Perhaps, but 99.9% of Magic users DO want every set. You're catering to the exception, not the rule. The majority only want a single set when it is first released, to update their collection.
I'm just offering a choice and not force everyone to download everything. Exceptions are important as like as majority some times. I'm thinking expecially about those people who don't have access to broadband flat connections. And 99.9% is not the real percentage, not everyone that have an adsl have FLAT adsl connection :-/. Have you heard about UMTS USB Sticks and dialup adsl?
"2) creating a torrent is not possible because who makes sets doesn't have time/upload speed/will to create a torrent and maintain it."
You don't understand how torrents work then. A proper torrent has a life of its own and requires no maintenance. I haven't seeded the HQ Pics torrent for two years but it is still extremely healthy.
In fact, I've seen Octagon torrents out there. The reason you guys don't have one is because you're afraid of being busted by WOTC.
OF COURSE a torrent is possible to do, and i know very well how to do it. The fact that maybe someone has not the time or upload speed enough to do it in short time doesn't touch you?
Besides that, a torrent for Octgn 1 sets was made back at the time of 10th edition and published it to TPB. It is still present, yes, but it never had more than 1/2 seeds and 2/3 peers
"3) doing a single big zip/rar file means having for sure problems with crc errors and so on, no matter how many times one check the zip/rar file"
Huh? This also is untrue. I've served Terabytes of downloads without one CRC error. If you're really worried about errors, you can use the "Put recovery record option" of winrar.
Well, i may have exaggerated a bit, but i had a recent experience with a zip file i uploaded that i checked before uploading with no errors (i use winrar too). Few hours after a guy who downloaded it said there was a crc error :facepalm:. I downloaded it and had the same error. Since it was more than 100Mb which took like half an hour to upload at full speed, that pissed me off a bit.
Finally, the naming convention for Octagon pics, using numbers and spoilers, is stupid. I think it started with Magic Encyclopedia, and it's obsolete.
Thanks for calling me stupid because i have chosen a different way to do things. Next time please try at least to see WHY i have chosen this way before insulting people
And by the way, is MWS masterbase a sort of spoiler? I heard that if you don't have the latest one you can't add new sets. So which is the difference?
@Pichoro: There is no huge initial investment in images for MWS. You can play without pics, like with Apprentice, or use the Tiny Crops Set I made which is about 100 MB and looks great.
That is one feature of MWS i like, but i don't know if it's possible to do it in octgn 2, at least for now.
I've been following Octagon for years. I would love to see it finished one day, but the development is glacially slow, and the developers have a bunker mentality and exclusionary attitude which doesn't help.
Well, being developed by ONE guy who also has problems with work in RL doesn't help much with speed. Feel free to take a look into the source code, it is available on sourceforge
pichoro: if the automation is the problem, then why don't you take a look at lackeyccg, when you have the magic plugin, you can update the sets and pics with just one click on a button
I looked at the IRC chat a couple of times today, but there are just a bunch of idlers, nobody to play with and I really wanna try this. :/
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Thanks for calling me stupid because i have chosen a different way to do things.
I didn't call you stupid. I called the use of code numbers for pics stupid. I have no idea who did it. I do know that Octagon is the only current app (out of over 20) that does that. Every other app I'm aware of uses regularly named pics.
I stand by all my other comments on torrents, etc. I have more experience with this than anyone (just like Nico has more experience than anyone with running actual games for hundreds/thousands of people, not just a couple of buddies getting together). The two-year-old torrent I mentioned above has almost 40 seeds right now. There is more to creating a successful torrent than just uploading it somewhere. BTW, 1) torrents are immune to CRC errors and server failures, 2) an individual can pick single files from a torrent if that's all he needs, 3) a torrent only needs to be uploaded once, and can be done so over a period of days, 4) can be uploaded by someone who does have plenty of bandwidth, and there are lots of those 5) is very friendly to those with limited bandwidth, because it can be stopped and resumed as many times and over as long a period as necessary. I don't know why you fixate on those with a lack of bandwidth.
The thing is, there is lots of good advice in this thread for someone who wants wide acceptance of their app. If Octagon is just a vanity project, feel free to ignore it all. But if it's only a vanity project then it doesn't deserve so much publicity and should stay in the chat room away from the scrutiny and commentary of users who have broad experience with all card playing apps.
I value your opinion and appreciate your even handed-responses. I know some of the comments here must sting, but there is nothing mean spirited that I've read. Nobody here is in competition with Octagon or wishes to see it fail, quite the contrary.
I stand by all my other comments on torrents, etc. I have more experience with this than anyone (just like Nico has more experience than anyone with running actual games for hundreds/thousands of people, not just a couple of buddies getting together). The two-year-old torrent I mentioned above has almost 40 seeds right now. There is more to creating a successful torrent than just uploading it somewhere. BTW, 1) torrents are immune to CRC errors and server failures, 2) an individual can pick single files from a torrent if that's all he needs, 3) a torrent only needs to be uploaded once, and can be done so over a period of days, 4) can be uploaded by someone who does have plenty of bandwidth, and there are lots of those 5) is very friendly to those with limited bandwidth, because it can be stopped and resumed as many times and over as long a period as necessary. I don't know why you fixate on those with a lack of bandwidth.
Your point being?
I never said torrent is not a good way to spread contents. I agree with each of your points because i know very well how torrent works, and P2P in general. I'm an expert too, you know
I just said that i can't do it right now for various reasons that i prefer not to divulge, bandwidth for first seed being one fo them. In the near future everything is possible though.
By the way, even your forum has direct downloads for single files, or am I wrong? And they are also larger than the ones used by octgn 2. So, again, what is the problem here? Do you think that users are worried to download some more files than the dozens that they download every day?
And why if mws or other programs have direct download sources everything is good, while if octgn2 has them, then it sucks because people "have to download each set one by one" ?
That thing i don't understand :sweat:.
The thing is, there is lots of good advice in this thread for someone who wants wide acceptance of their app.
Advices are well took in if they are proposed with good manners. You are basically saying that if those advices are not considered, octgn will not have wide acceptance? How can you know that?
With this, i don't mean that they will not be considered, that would be just stupid.
If Octagon is just a vanity project, feel free to ignore it all. But if it's only a vanity project then it doesn't deserve so much publicity and should stay in the chat room away from the scrutiny and commentary of users who have broad experience with all card playing apps.
This is just a silly statement, sorry if i say that. Octgn is not a "vanity project", whatever it means, and it deserves the same publicity other programs deserve. It is a rising project and it needs people trying it in order to improve. I agree that it lacks such publicity right now, and it is mainly our fault as developers and followers of the project.
So far, except a few posts, i have only read critics about features missing or handled in a different way than mws or other programs. Those are not helping in any way, they are just made to irritate people :rolleyes:, because they are made despite the fact that i said octgn is still alpha and could be heavily changed in future releases.
I value your opinion and appreciate your even handed-responses. I know some of the comments here must sting, but there is nothing mean spirited that I've read. Nobody here is in competition with Octagon or wishes to see it fail, quite the contrary.
I appreciate too the tone you use, if every comment was like yours, i would not have been so harsh with my responses
I looked at the IRC chat a couple of times today, but there are just a bunch of idlers, nobody to play with and I really wanna try this. :/
I was here for a few hours today, playing games on and off, and sometime being AFK. Anyway I usually play on week days around 8 ~ 10 pm EST. my name is darkdawn on the IRC channel, what's yours? maybe we can play together.
For the record I pretty much only play Type 2 or EDH, but I guess I could make a type 1.5, 1.X or 1 deck, or even a block deck if you ask.
And why if mws or other programs have direct download sources everything is good, while if octgn2 has them, then it sucks because people "have to download each set one by one" ?
That thing i don't understand .
The point was (and a point initially made by someone else, not me) that Octagon provides no method of getting them all at once. We provide two different ways of getting all the sets at once. If users want to download them all one by one, that's their prerogative, and I don't care, but it seems like a lot of work.
You are basically saying that if those advices are not considered, octgn will not have wide acceptance? How can you know that?
Nope, I'm not saying that. There are many ways to skin a cat. But as the saying goes, you can do things the hard way or the easy way, and the advice you're getting is not coming from people who just made it up, they're giving you practical knowledge based on real world experience.
With this, i don't mean that they will not be considered, that would be just stupid.
Indeed.
So far, except a few posts, i have only read critics about features missing or handled in a different way than mws or other programs.
Well, how many posts do you want saying what a great program Octagon is? That doesn't help you improve the program at all.
This is also why projects are not usually promoted until they're ready for Beta testing. When you promote an Alpha product, you will get slammed with bug reports and feature requests, and telling people to leave you alone because it's still Alpha doesn't help does it? You asked for it, and the consequences are as predictable as the sun rising.
And BTW, I'm no shill for MWS, I'm not affiliated with it and never use it. You will get comparisons to MWS because it is the defacto standard, and the most people use it, not because it is inherently superior.
I appreciate too the tone you use, if every comment was like yours, i would not have been so harsh with my responses.
Aww, you're making me blush.
The point was (and a point initially made by someone else, not me) that Octagon provides no method of getting them all at once.
No torrent, we have understood that part, but then you say
We provide two different ways of getting all the sets at once. If users want to download them all one by one, that's their prerogative, and I don't care, but it seems like a lot of work.
you speak about 2 ways to get ALL IN ONCE. One is the torrent. The other?
DIRECT DOWNLOAD. Sooo, where is the difference?
Simple, you don't have packed files among options
And you know better than me that the source we both use lets multiple downloads and don't have time limitations likke rapidshare or capped size for downloads like megaupload, so clicking on a bunch of links is not that much of an hassle
Nope, I'm not saying that. There are many ways to skin a cat. But as the saying goes, you can do things the hard way or the easy way, and the advice you're getting is not coming from people who just made it up, they're giving you practical knowledge based on real world experience.
If the real world experience is faced from another point of view, it's still real world experience, and different points of view are as important as the main one. You think that one point of view is easier than the other, I think instead that it's preferrable to have a slightly different one than the existing one. The two don't elide each other and can overlap, but only people will choose the one they think is best, not you or me
With this, i don't mean that they will not be considered, that would be just stupid.
Indeed.
ditto
So far, except a few posts, i have only read critics about features missing or handled in a different way than mws or other programs.
Well, how many posts do you want saying what a great program Octagon is? That doesn't help you improve the program at all.
As i said before, there are different ways to say things. Constructive comments and critics are WELL accepted, complaints and whinings about things that are going anyway to be changed or added are NOT.
This is also why projects are not usually promoted until they're ready for Beta testing. When you promote an Alpha product, you will get slammed with bug reports and feature requests, and telling people to leave you alone because it's still Alpha doesn't help does it? You asked for it, and the consequences are as predictable as the sun rising.
Nobody is telling people to leave alone anyone. A bugtracker has been set up since the FIRST version of alpha, and dozens of bugs have been submitted by people who are not affiliated like me with the project, and solved by the main developer.
Maybe you haven't followed the project since his very beginning, but the main developer was practically FORCED to release an alpha version to the public. Even if this first version was buggy as hell, didn't let you play anything besides blue moon game already preset, didn't have any feature besides tapping cards and targetting, and you had even to open the config file with a text editor if you wanted to change your nick...
Still, people WANTED TO TRY IT OUT. With this I mean that here is used a different approach to things. Since the developer has not much time to dedicate to bugfinding AND programming, he prefers to focus on programming, leaving users to find bugs and report them. The most important ones usually are solved in the next one or two releases.
You will get comparisons to MWS because it is the defacto standard, and the most people use it, not because it is inherently superior.
Yeah, i surely agree with you.
I appreciate too the tone you use, if every comment was like yours, i would not have been so harsh with my responses.
Aww, you're making me blush.
I have this effect on people more often than you can imagine
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It's strange that so many people choose to be stupid...
I don't know what the rules are about posting links to sets are here, but I have all of the OCTGN2 sets hosted individually and as 1 big zip on my own hosting. If you want the link PM me.
I don't know what the rules are about posting links to sets are here, but I have all of the OCTGN2 sets hosted individually and as 1 big zip on my own hosting. If you want the link PM me.
The problem with that is that they are probably already out of date a bunch of sets were updated yesterday.
The problem with that is that they are probably already out of date a bunch of sets were updated yesterday.
I see how that could be a problem. I like OCTGN but having to constantly update individual files is very problematic, I figured that the files wouldn't need to change, what's different about the newer files? Just error correction? Also, what happens if people are playing with different versions of the same card/set?
Either way I can get all of the files downloaded, zipped and reuploaded in about an hour, so it's not too big of a deal.
So far pretty much yeah, last time it was only to fix a corrupted data in SDM and two cards that made the game crash in CoK and LRW. I have the new files but I can still play against people using the old one, since 99% of the card data was left unchanged.
The two-year-old torrent I mentioned above has almost 40 seeds right now. There is more to creating a successful torrent than just uploading it somewhere. BTW, 1) torrents are immune to CRC errors and server failures, 2) an individual can pick single files from a torrent if that's all he needs, 3) a torrent only needs to be uploaded once, and can be done so over a period of days, 4) can be uploaded by someone who does have plenty of bandwidth, and there are lots of those 5) is very friendly to those with limited bandwidth, because it can be stopped and resumed as many times and over as long a period as necessary. I don't know why you fixate on those with a lack of bandwidth.
The thing is, there is lots of good advice in this thread for someone who wants wide acceptance of their app. If Octagon is just a vanity project, feel free to ignore it all. But if it's only a vanity project then it doesn't deserve so much publicity and should stay in the chat room away from the scrutiny and commentary of users who have broad experience with all card playing apps.
I think it's really rude of you to call or suggest this is a vanity project. It seems like a lot of dedicated people put a ton of work into this, and are making it available to everyone.
It sounds like a work of passion, like linux and openoffice, rather than a vanity project. And I have nothing but respect for stuff like that. Anyone that takes time out of their lives to work on something great like this, for everyone to use for free, is a great person in my book.
And it helps that they made such a fantastic and beautiful program that's a lot of fun to use.
That said, those are some fantastic points you made about the pros of torrents. After reading them, I think torrents would be the absolute best way to distribute this, bar none.
But I can understand people working on this wanting to wait until they are sure that all the errors are fixed with the sets before uploading a torrent, just to make sure that there are no problems what so ever with it.
Well, first of all, there's nothing inherently wrong with a vanity project. If it makes its creators happy then it has served its purpose. Nobody here has a problem with works of passion, but being a work of passion and being a vanity project are not mutually exclusive.
Secondly, I used the word "IF" twice. I was not being rude, I think you're being hypersensitive.
I don't know what your experience with Octagon is, it sounds like you just found out about it. OTOH Octagon is not something I just stumbled across, I've been following it for years, since version one.
After spending about 6 hours downloading not only OCTGN, but also the game and card files to play magic, figuring out how to install the stuff and figuring out the interface, I'm going back to MWS.
I'm no looking o flame or troll anyone, but one of the main reasons I decided to give it a try is because of folks like Captain Hammer who post rave reviews about it, making it sound like a finished product.
It's not, and this is my main beef with it: it is very difficult for a new player to get games going. In order to play a game, you have to join the #octgn IRC channel (server irc.ircstorm.net) and connect directly to other people. Most of the folks in the channel know each other, and as a newb you can only get a game if someone's feeling nice or has no one else to play with.
There's no server like MWS has where you can jump on and get a quick game going.
Lastly, this quote from jods, the administrator of the forum for OCTGN said the following in a post:
>OCTGN 2 is in developement. Don't expect a big "community and service". >Currently the software is mostly for enthusiast who want to test it and >help make the program better. Right now I would advise you to find >another way to play Magic online.
Hmmm...sounds a little different from what Captain Hammer posted, doesn't it?
Quite frankly, I've put about 6 hours into getting OCTGN to work, and I'm really annoyed at having had my time wasted. When it comes out of beta, I might give it a try, but my experience was nothing like what Captain Hammer has been raving about.
After spending about 6 hours downloading not only OCTGN, but also the game and card files to play magic, figuring out how to install the stuff and figuring out the interface, I'm going back to MWS.
I'm no looking o flame or troll anyone, but one of the main reasons I decided to give it a try is because of folks like Captain Hammer who post rave reviews about it, making it sound like a finished product.
It's not, and this is my main beef with it: it is very difficult for a new player to get games going. In order to play a game, you have to join the #octgn IRC channel (server irc.ircstorm.net) and connect directly to other people. Most of the folks in the channel know each other, and as a newb you can only get a game if someone's feeling nice or has no one else to play with.
There's no server like MWS has where you can jump on and get a quick game going.
Lastly, this quote from jods, the administrator of the forum for OCTGN said the following in a post:
>OCTGN 2 is in developement. Don't expect a big "community and service". >Currently the software is mostly for enthusiast who want to test it and >help make the program better. Right now I would advise you to find >another way to play Magic online.
Hmmm...sounds a little different from what Captain Hammer posted, doesn't it?
Quite frankly, I've put about 6 hours into getting OCTGN to work, and I'm really annoyed at having had my time wasted. When it comes out of beta, I might give it a try, but my experience was nothing like what Captain Hammer has been raving about.
Well, you can go cry about how Captain Hammer lied to us all! Etc. But that isn't OCTGN's problem :facepalm:, PM him if you are angry at him, don't annoy this thread for the love of god. Anyways, good work on OCTGN guys, I really enjoy it, but I think you guys need to throw in an official Yu-Gi-Oh def to get more players. I think this thread should be moved, because I am one of the people, who try to get others to understand this program can do MORE than just magic, but, if it works here, it works here.
Gameplay can be slick/smooth if controlled right, allowing a fast paced game, if no rulings are in question. The main problems is that crashes, crashes, crashes. But so far, it seems good, only dying to internet connection etc. Also, for some reason OCTGN doesn't seem to like 2HG EDH style. Maybe its the 400+ cards, whatever.
Well, you can go cry about how Captain Hammer lied to us all! Etc. But that isn't OCTGN's problem :facepalm:, PM him if you are angry at him, don't annoy this thread for the love of god.
I don't really think his point was "I was lied to." He was just sharing his experience with the program, only mentioning Captain Hammer because other people saying it was a worthwhile program is one of the reasons he tried it instead of just using MWS. Not really classified as "annoying the thread" imo. Also, how is the program not providing an enjoyable experience not the program's problem?
That being said, I had an experience similar to icognogolia's. I downloaded the program and all the sets and made a deck. The deck creation screen looked really clean and I saw there were quite a few filters to sort through cards which is always nice, though I didn't use them all. After which I fired up a game with just myself to get a look at the UI/keyboard shortcuts ect. I thought the play area looked clean as well, the "kitchen table" background is a nice touch. Overall it seemed easy to use and nice to look at, though the keyboard shortcut for drawing a card didn't seem to work unless my cursor was over my library, not sure what that's about. So, after I was done familiarizing myself I headed over to the irc room looking for a game and got no response on each occasion. I understand that the program isn't finished yet but if you want it heavily tested/bugs found, making it able to create, find and join games quicker and easier would do a world of good, and if it wasn't for this I would use this over MWS because I'd like to play multiplayer EDH because I was recently introduced to the format but no one at my local shop plays. Either way it's just not feasible to find players in a reasonable manner of time with this program unless pre-organized.
TL;DR version: I liked interface but, could not find any games to actually play.
Thanks to feedback from some of you guys (the ones that were constructive), some very talented coders worked on getting keyboard shortcuts included in the game, and the sets can be downloaded in bulk over at the mediafire link below.
Mods: Can you either make a new official thread, or sticky this one. OCTGN 2.0 now finally has more functionality that Apprentice AND Magic Workstation. So I think it's well past time that the program gets a stickied official thread.
I have no plans to sticky this. More functionality or not, it doesn't have more users than MWS, nor does it have nearly as much discussion around it. And Apprentice doesn't have a sticky at all.
So, no, I don't think so. And if there is another thread, it needs to be made by someone actually affiliated with OCTGN 2.0, not someone who's a fan of their work.
This is an incredibly awesome program. Does a much better job of showing off Magic's beautiful artwork, or recreating the kitchen table feeling you get from playing Magic in real life.
I think one of the reasons that peole don't want to start playn is the amount of work they need to do before playing in the first place. I mean, ease of use and beautiful images are not the only reasons for people to start playing.
Let's take mws for example: it takes litteraly less than 10 minutes to get a game running. I know itis not looking very impressive, but it does it's work.
I think that if there was a small text based datapack, that uses generic card frames, a lot of people would be willing to start playing, and when people like the game, they are always willing to put more time in it and to pimp it.
Also, you gotta keep in mind that there still is a group of people that are on limited data/speed lines so for them it is a definite no-no to download massive packages.
just set this all up and....I love this. For what it is it's very elegant and simple. I intend on at least getting some friends interested so we can do more stuff since meeting up for local casual is harder when you all work FT.
I'm just offering a choice and not force everyone to download everything. Exceptions are important as like as majority some times. I'm thinking expecially about those people who don't have access to broadband flat connections. And 99.9% is not the real percentage, not everyone that have an adsl have FLAT adsl connection :-/. Have you heard about UMTS USB Sticks and dialup adsl?
OF COURSE a torrent is possible to do, and i know very well how to do it. The fact that maybe someone has not the time or upload speed enough to do it in short time doesn't touch you?
Besides that, a torrent for Octgn 1 sets was made back at the time of 10th edition and published it to TPB. It is still present, yes, but it never had more than 1/2 seeds and 2/3 peers
Well, i may have exaggerated a bit, but i had a recent experience with a zip file i uploaded that i checked before uploading with no errors (i use winrar too). Few hours after a guy who downloaded it said there was a crc error :facepalm:. I downloaded it and had the same error. Since it was more than 100Mb which took like half an hour to upload at full speed, that pissed me off a bit.
Thanks for calling me stupid because i have chosen a different way to do things. Next time please try at least to see WHY i have chosen this way before insulting people
And by the way, is MWS masterbase a sort of spoiler? I heard that if you don't have the latest one you can't add new sets. So which is the difference?
That is one feature of MWS i like, but i don't know if it's possible to do it in octgn 2, at least for now.
Well, being developed by ONE guy who also has problems with work in RL doesn't help much with speed. Feel free to take a look into the source code, it is available on sourceforge
It's strange that so many people choose to be stupid...
I stand by all my other comments on torrents, etc. I have more experience with this than anyone (just like Nico has more experience than anyone with running actual games for hundreds/thousands of people, not just a couple of buddies getting together). The two-year-old torrent I mentioned above has almost 40 seeds right now. There is more to creating a successful torrent than just uploading it somewhere. BTW, 1) torrents are immune to CRC errors and server failures, 2) an individual can pick single files from a torrent if that's all he needs, 3) a torrent only needs to be uploaded once, and can be done so over a period of days, 4) can be uploaded by someone who does have plenty of bandwidth, and there are lots of those 5) is very friendly to those with limited bandwidth, because it can be stopped and resumed as many times and over as long a period as necessary. I don't know why you fixate on those with a lack of bandwidth.
The thing is, there is lots of good advice in this thread for someone who wants wide acceptance of their app. If Octagon is just a vanity project, feel free to ignore it all. But if it's only a vanity project then it doesn't deserve so much publicity and should stay in the chat room away from the scrutiny and commentary of users who have broad experience with all card playing apps.
I value your opinion and appreciate your even handed-responses. I know some of the comments here must sting, but there is nothing mean spirited that I've read. Nobody here is in competition with Octagon or wishes to see it fail, quite the contrary.
I never said torrent is not a good way to spread contents. I agree with each of your points because i know very well how torrent works, and P2P in general. I'm an expert too, you know
I just said that i can't do it right now for various reasons that i prefer not to divulge, bandwidth for first seed being one fo them. In the near future everything is possible though.
By the way, even your forum has direct downloads for single files, or am I wrong? And they are also larger than the ones used by octgn 2. So, again, what is the problem here? Do you think that users are worried to download some more files than the dozens that they download every day?
And why if mws or other programs have direct download sources everything is good, while if octgn2 has them, then it sucks because people "have to download each set one by one" ?
That thing i don't understand :sweat:.
Advices are well took in if they are proposed with good manners. You are basically saying that if those advices are not considered, octgn will not have wide acceptance? How can you know that?
With this, i don't mean that they will not be considered, that would be just stupid.
This is just a silly statement, sorry if i say that. Octgn is not a "vanity project", whatever it means, and it deserves the same publicity other programs deserve. It is a rising project and it needs people trying it in order to improve. I agree that it lacks such publicity right now, and it is mainly our fault as developers and followers of the project.
So far, except a few posts, i have only read critics about features missing or handled in a different way than mws or other programs. Those are not helping in any way, they are just made to irritate people :rolleyes:, because they are made despite the fact that i said octgn is still alpha and could be heavily changed in future releases.
I appreciate too the tone you use, if every comment was like yours, i would not have been so harsh with my responses
It's strange that so many people choose to be stupid...
I was here for a few hours today, playing games on and off, and sometime being AFK. Anyway I usually play on week days around 8 ~ 10 pm EST. my name is darkdawn on the IRC channel, what's yours? maybe we can play together.
For the record I pretty much only play Type 2 or EDH, but I guess I could make a type 1.5, 1.X or 1 deck, or even a block deck if you ask.
And why if mws or other programs have direct download sources everything is good, while if octgn2 has them, then it sucks because people "have to download each set one by one" ?
That thing i don't understand .
The point was (and a point initially made by someone else, not me) that Octagon provides no method of getting them all at once. We provide two different ways of getting all the sets at once. If users want to download them all one by one, that's their prerogative, and I don't care, but it seems like a lot of work.
You are basically saying that if those advices are not considered, octgn will not have wide acceptance? How can you know that?
Nope, I'm not saying that. There are many ways to skin a cat. But as the saying goes, you can do things the hard way or the easy way, and the advice you're getting is not coming from people who just made it up, they're giving you practical knowledge based on real world experience.
With this, i don't mean that they will not be considered, that would be just stupid.
Indeed.
So far, except a few posts, i have only read critics about features missing or handled in a different way than mws or other programs.
Well, how many posts do you want saying what a great program Octagon is? That doesn't help you improve the program at all.
This is also why projects are not usually promoted until they're ready for Beta testing. When you promote an Alpha product, you will get slammed with bug reports and feature requests, and telling people to leave you alone because it's still Alpha doesn't help does it? You asked for it, and the consequences are as predictable as the sun rising.
And BTW, I'm no shill for MWS, I'm not affiliated with it and never use it. You will get comparisons to MWS because it is the defacto standard, and the most people use it, not because it is inherently superior.
I appreciate too the tone you use, if every comment was like yours, i would not have been so harsh with my responses.
Aww, you're making me blush.
No torrent, we have understood that part, but then you say
you speak about 2 ways to get ALL IN ONCE. One is the torrent. The other?
DIRECT DOWNLOAD. Sooo, where is the difference?
Simple, you don't have packed files among options
And you know better than me that the source we both use lets multiple downloads and don't have time limitations likke rapidshare or capped size for downloads like megaupload, so clicking on a bunch of links is not that much of an hassle
If the real world experience is faced from another point of view, it's still real world experience, and different points of view are as important as the main one. You think that one point of view is easier than the other, I think instead that it's preferrable to have a slightly different one than the existing one. The two don't elide each other and can overlap, but only people will choose the one they think is best, not you or me
ditto
As i said before, there are different ways to say things. Constructive comments and critics are WELL accepted, complaints and whinings about things that are going anyway to be changed or added are NOT.
Nobody is telling people to leave alone anyone. A bugtracker has been set up since the FIRST version of alpha, and dozens of bugs have been submitted by people who are not affiliated like me with the project, and solved by the main developer.
Maybe you haven't followed the project since his very beginning, but the main developer was practically FORCED to release an alpha version to the public. Even if this first version was buggy as hell, didn't let you play anything besides blue moon game already preset, didn't have any feature besides tapping cards and targetting, and you had even to open the config file with a text editor if you wanted to change your nick...
Still, people WANTED TO TRY IT OUT. With this I mean that here is used a different approach to things. Since the developer has not much time to dedicate to bugfinding AND programming, he prefers to focus on programming, leaving users to find bugs and report them. The most important ones usually are solved in the next one or two releases.
Yeah, i surely agree with you.
I have this effect on people more often than you can imagine
It's strange that so many people choose to be stupid...
The problem with that is that they are probably already out of date a bunch of sets were updated yesterday.
I see how that could be a problem. I like OCTGN but having to constantly update individual files is very problematic, I figured that the files wouldn't need to change, what's different about the newer files? Just error correction? Also, what happens if people are playing with different versions of the same card/set?
Either way I can get all of the files downloaded, zipped and reuploaded in about an hour, so it's not too big of a deal.
How often do cards update? Only when they release a new set or change Oracle, right?
I think it's really rude of you to call or suggest this is a vanity project. It seems like a lot of dedicated people put a ton of work into this, and are making it available to everyone.
It sounds like a work of passion, like linux and openoffice, rather than a vanity project. And I have nothing but respect for stuff like that. Anyone that takes time out of their lives to work on something great like this, for everyone to use for free, is a great person in my book.
And it helps that they made such a fantastic and beautiful program that's a lot of fun to use.
That said, those are some fantastic points you made about the pros of torrents. After reading them, I think torrents would be the absolute best way to distribute this, bar none.
But I can understand people working on this wanting to wait until they are sure that all the errors are fixed with the sets before uploading a torrent, just to make sure that there are no problems what so ever with it.
Secondly, I used the word "IF" twice. I was not being rude, I think you're being hypersensitive.
I don't know what your experience with Octagon is, it sounds like you just found out about it. OTOH Octagon is not something I just stumbled across, I've been following it for years, since version one.
T2 powpercube Value https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/37t
check the octgn chat and you'll find everything you need
It's strange that so many people choose to be stupid...
I'm no looking o flame or troll anyone, but one of the main reasons I decided to give it a try is because of folks like Captain Hammer who post rave reviews about it, making it sound like a finished product.
It's not, and this is my main beef with it: it is very difficult for a new player to get games going. In order to play a game, you have to join the #octgn IRC channel (server irc.ircstorm.net) and connect directly to other people. Most of the folks in the channel know each other, and as a newb you can only get a game if someone's feeling nice or has no one else to play with.
There's no server like MWS has where you can jump on and get a quick game going.
Lastly, this quote from jods, the administrator of the forum for OCTGN said the following in a post:
>OCTGN 2 is in developement. Don't expect a big "community and service". >Currently the software is mostly for enthusiast who want to test it and >help make the program better. Right now I would advise you to find >another way to play Magic online.
Taken from http://www.octgn.net/forum/index.php?topic=193.0
Hmmm...sounds a little different from what Captain Hammer posted, doesn't it?
Quite frankly, I've put about 6 hours into getting OCTGN to work, and I'm really annoyed at having had my time wasted. When it comes out of beta, I might give it a try, but my experience was nothing like what Captain Hammer has been raving about.
Well, you can go cry about how Captain Hammer lied to us all! Etc. But that isn't OCTGN's problem :facepalm:, PM him if you are angry at him, don't annoy this thread for the love of god. Anyways, good work on OCTGN guys, I really enjoy it, but I think you guys need to throw in an official Yu-Gi-Oh def to get more players. I think this thread should be moved, because I am one of the people, who try to get others to understand this program can do MORE than just magic, but, if it works here, it works here.
Gameplay can be slick/smooth if controlled right, allowing a fast paced game, if no rulings are in question. The main problems is that crashes, crashes, crashes. But so far, it seems good, only dying to internet connection etc. Also, for some reason OCTGN doesn't seem to like 2HG EDH style. Maybe its the 400+ cards, whatever.
I don't really think his point was "I was lied to." He was just sharing his experience with the program, only mentioning Captain Hammer because other people saying it was a worthwhile program is one of the reasons he tried it instead of just using MWS. Not really classified as "annoying the thread" imo. Also, how is the program not providing an enjoyable experience not the program's problem?
That being said, I had an experience similar to icognogolia's. I downloaded the program and all the sets and made a deck. The deck creation screen looked really clean and I saw there were quite a few filters to sort through cards which is always nice, though I didn't use them all. After which I fired up a game with just myself to get a look at the UI/keyboard shortcuts ect. I thought the play area looked clean as well, the "kitchen table" background is a nice touch. Overall it seemed easy to use and nice to look at, though the keyboard shortcut for drawing a card didn't seem to work unless my cursor was over my library, not sure what that's about. So, after I was done familiarizing myself I headed over to the irc room looking for a game and got no response on each occasion. I understand that the program isn't finished yet but if you want it heavily tested/bugs found, making it able to create, find and join games quicker and easier would do a world of good, and if it wasn't for this I would use this over MWS because I'd like to play multiplayer EDH because I was recently introduced to the format but no one at my local shop plays. Either way it's just not feasible to find players in a reasonable manner of time with this program unless pre-organized.
TL;DR version: I liked interface but, could not find any games to actually play.
Peasant+ Cube
Mods: Can you either make a new official thread, or sticky this one. OCTGN 2.0 now finally has more functionality that Apprentice AND Magic Workstation. So I think it's well past time that the program gets a stickied official thread.
So, no, I don't think so. And if there is another thread, it needs to be made by someone actually affiliated with OCTGN 2.0, not someone who's a fan of their work.
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This is an incredibly awesome program. Does a much better job of showing off Magic's beautiful artwork, or recreating the kitchen table feeling you get from playing Magic in real life.
Kind of surprised at how few people are using it.
Let's take mws for example: it takes litteraly less than 10 minutes to get a game running. I know itis not looking very impressive, but it does it's work.
I think that if there was a small text based datapack, that uses generic card frames, a lot of people would be willing to start playing, and when people like the game, they are always willing to put more time in it and to pimp it.
Also, you gotta keep in mind that there still is a group of people that are on limited data/speed lines so for them it is a definite no-no to download massive packages.
Greetz Nico