I get that they obviously wanted to dump a ton of Planeswalkers into the game with WAR. What they forgot was to add in just as many opportunities for anti-Planeswalker options - something like Gates Ablaze, or Cry the Carnium, or Cleansing Nova that targets Planeswalkers. Basically Planeswalker wiping spells, just as easy to attain and similar cost to play as the Planeswalkers themselves. Cards that deactivate Planeswalker abilities. Some "paper" to the "rock" that are Planeswalkers in this rock-paper-scissors game. I mean, PWs completely unbalance the game as it is. Its like having another opponent, but comes with inate abilities AND the ability to cast spells without spending mana. Did WotC playtest any of this at all?
So they recently add this feature to the game where you can use your creatures to attack another player's planeswalkers. This new feature will allow you to interact with planeswalkers in an obvious and simple way with cards you should already be playing.
On a serious note, they did alter a number of uncommons, rares and even a few commons to specifically answer planeswalkers. There is a lot of paper in the format to answer the rocks. Planeswalkers are showing up more than ever because there are more than ever but they are far from dominating.
So they recently add this feature to the game where you can use your creatures to attack another player's planeswalkers. This new feature will allow you to interact with planeswalkers in an obvious and simple way with cards you should already be playing.
On a serious note, they did alter a number of uncommons, rares and even a few commons to specifically answer planeswalkers. There is a lot of paper in the format to answer the rocks. Planeswalkers are showing up more than ever because there are more than ever but they are far from dominating.
Of course you could attack their PWs, but that assumes they have no creatures to block. And, of course, while you are attacking their PWs, you have spared their player from taking any damage, while you, with no PWs, aw taking blunt trauma to your player and moving you closer to death. Just having to deal with PWs and attacking them instead of their player IS part of their dominating factors.
I will take a look around for those Tier 1 anti-planeswalker decks. I see more than enough Tier 1 decks with planeswalkers o plenty.
This does not include any counters, discard spells, or other means to deal with walkers from previous sets (Bedevil comes to mind, along with Shock, Lightning Strike, and Vraska's Contempt). In short, there are a lot of ways to deal with walkers. The only color that can't on it's own is Green. Red and Black have the easiest time, but that's understandable as well.
Of course you could attack their PWs, but that assumes they have no creatures to block. And, of course, while you are attacking their PWs, you have spared their player from taking any damage, while you, with no PWs, aw taking blunt trauma to your player and moving you closer to death. Just having to deal with PWs and attacking them instead of their player IS part of their dominating factors.
When your opponent is able to stick one or more strong walkers while still having the board presence to protect them and/or attacking you for significant damage while you lack other answers, you probably were behind before the walker(s) hit the board, they just appear to be the reason for your situation because they're flashy.
Also, depending on the overall situation, not every walker is an immediate must-answer threat. They tend to provide strong effects, but sometimes it's better to ignore them and keep pressuring your opponent instead of getting distracted by single cards mostly because of their type.
I also feel like there may be too many, and in that massive swarm of walkers there's some that seem way to powerful. Nissa that Shakes the World for example is absolutely insane and almost impossible to deal with once it's out if you're not playing a control deck that has PW removal spells. If you're playing any midrange, aggro, or creature deck her hitting the board is usually game over. The problem with having so many is now you can drain your opponents removal spells on your second rate walkers and then drop your gamewinners unchallenged. I feel like the inclusion of so many PWs is Wizards attempt at speeding up the game. I know that's been a direction they've been heading in for several releases now - they want to get games into the 5-10 minute range and away from the 45 minute slogs in order to attract all those new players who may go Arena first and then enter the card game from that. So if you create a ***** ton of walkers that's one way to end the more controly games early - keep dropping your walkers and if one lives for two turns you won.
Walkers .... way too powerful. Nissa, Who Shakes the World for example is absolutely insane and almost impossible to deal with once it's out if you're not playing a control deck that has PW removal spells.
It's not that bad.
Being a 5-cmc walker, and belonging to a mono-coloured archetype, I have no problem with it having a powerful effect.
Being a 20-yr MTG player, I kinda like a big swing in the game to something different. Once the new sets come out after rotation, I'm sure there will be a large amount of answers being printed.
If Magic is challenging you to come up with new ways to solve problems, guess what, that means it's a good game and probably worth your time.
On the opposite end of the continuum lies Tic-Tac-Toe. It will never change and never presents new challenges. You figure out a strategy to win (or just draw) every time and that's pretty much it. The strategy you've always relied on will probably work forever.
Magic isn't like that. Thank God for that.
If what you're doing isn't working, HINT HINT, time to explore new cards and new strategies that do work. They do exist, you're just not interested in using any of them. (Seems to me..) You'd rather just spam the board with dudes and go aggro.
Ever run into problems with Wrath of God? What did you do about it? It's like that. Good luck.
I've only been playing for about 6 weeks, and I only play Arena, so i have never seen Wrath of God. Magic may not be Tic-Tac-Toe, but it also isn't Chess either. Chess has been around for hundreds of years with the same 8x8 grid and play pieces, yet there are always challenges and new strategies being formed. I got interested in MTG and found MTG Arena to be the perfect place to see if it really is something to spend time with - supposedly Free-to-Play, and to an extent it is. It does seem, however, that it is also Pay-to-Win. Just as you suggest - "explore new cards". But wait, I don't have dozens of Rare and Mythic Rare wild cards to just try some new strategy, just to find it doesn't work and move on to another. As it stands, i am so far behind. There are many of the "must have 4" Rares that I don't even have one of from the older sets, not to mention WAR. My rare and mythics wilds are already reserved just to catch up. I appreciate your advice, though.
I would argue Magic is a ALOT like chess.....except it has tens of thousands of pieces that all do different things as opposed to only 6. If you dont think each game of magic has its own challenges and strategies then I dont know what to tell you. Its called finding the correct line in any given situation.
Regarding "play-to-win", if you want to play "competitive" magic then yes, you have to invest in the cards to be competitive. If you dont want to, then just play draft. Arena may be a casual forum but the decks being played are more often than not of a competitive nature.
No deck is going to have a good matchup against everything. Thats not how Magic works
I've only been playing for about 6 weeks, and I only play Arena, so i have never seen Wrath of God. Magic may not be Tic-Tac-Toe, but it also isn't Chess either. Chess has been around for hundreds of years with the same 8x8 grid and play pieces, yet there are always challenges and new strategies being formed. I got interested in MTG and found MTG Arena to be the perfect place to see if it really is something to spend time with - supposedly Free-to-Play, and to an extent it is. It does seem, however, that it is also Pay-to-Win. Just as you suggest - "explore new cards". But wait, I don't have dozens of Rare and Mythic Rare wild cards to just try some new strategy, just to find it doesn't work and move on to another. As it stands, i am so far behind. There are many of the "must have 4" Rares that I don't even have one of from the older sets, not to mention WAR. My rare and mythics wilds are already reserved just to catch up. I appreciate your advice, though.
MTG is a brutal, unforgiving game.
imo, I can't compare it to chess, it might take some ideas from chess, but they two are nothing alike. Now for the planeswalkers, they have been around for a long time, it's just we have a lot more now and we are seeing more superfriends decks now. As stated, decks you build are not gonna be good in every matchup. So, you have to build a deck and try to find removal in the shell you choose that works best.
Sometimes you find the answer and you can remove the walker.
Sometimes you don't and it ends up being a massacre, or a Massacre Girl
Sometimes you can ignore a walker and drop bigger threats that are harder to interact with to make it easier to punch in like Carnage Tyrant
Sometimes you answer threat after threat and you still die because your opponent is just better than you. Esper Control
"To keep things 100, anything I state is an opinion and not intended to be a fact. Any and all suggestions I give are a 100% opinion. If you need further clarification take the conversation to a PM. I am not in the business of assuming things. I'm only interested in 1 business and that business serves 2 things, Cold L's and Hot Dub's."
Wait, you've only been playing for 6 weeks and you're already sick of Planeswalkers? lol. You're in for a long year and a half until 2020 rotation. Maybe take up a different hobby? Racketball? Dungeons and Dragons? Ballroom dancing?? Anything!
But complaining about the game when you're 40 days into playing it... geez... just quit and play something else that doesn't aggravate you. And spare us all your indignation.
This does not include any counters, discard spells, or other means to deal with walkers from previous sets (Bedevil comes to mind, along with Shock, Lightning Strike, and Vraska's Contempt). In short, there are a lot of ways to deal with walkers. The only color that can't on it's own is Green. Red and Black have the easiest time, but that's understandable as well.
The bigger problem is that most walkers "get their card back" (and sometimes +1 CA) after resolving, and all of these answers are -1s under that view (and some are actually -2s). So you're bleeding cards by answering them.
The best way to answer walkers is just by having enough pressure to take them out immediately without having to spend cards (or by countering them, or killing their controller). But if your opponent untaps with them once or twice, the advantage can often be insurmountable.
There are many of the "must have 4" Rares that I don't even have one of from the older sets, not to mention WAR. My rare and mythics wilds are already reserved just to catch up. I appreciate your advice, though.
When I first joined arena, I blew all my rares on lands. It was a good decision in hindsight. Seeing as rotation isn't that far away, I'd probably avoid the check-lands like Dragonskull Summit should you be short on rares, but I'd grab the shock lands for the decks you want to play.
Yeah I like this one too. I've been doing a few different brews but so far Gruul-stompy seems the best home AFAIK. I hope I'm wrong on that, Gruul is so linear and dull to play.
The bigger problem is that most walkers "get their card back" (and sometimes +1 CA) after resolving, and all of these answers are -1s under that view (and some are actually -2s). So you're bleeding cards by answering them.
The best way to answer walkers is just by having enough pressure to take them out immediately without having to spend cards (or by countering them, or killing their controller). But if your opponent untaps with them once or twice, the advantage can often be insurmountable.
7 of 36 walkers immediately and unconditionally 'get their card back'. 8 more conditionally get a card back. 10 produce value on the level of a 2/2 creature. If you use cards like Despark or Price of Betrayal, then you usually losing cards answering them. But you aren't supposed to rely on those types of cards. You are expected to rely on creatures to deal with them, with those cards being a method of catching up or slowing down the opponent, by being cheaper than their threats.
If you have an empty board and a walker resolves you are probably losing. However, if you have an empty board essentially any bomb resolving is going to win. The trick is not having an empty board. accomplish this by playing resilant threats or multiple threats a turn.
I would argue Magic is a ALOT like chess.....except it has tens of thousands of pieces that all do different things as opposed to only 6. If you dont think each game of magic has its own challenges and strategies then I dont know what to tell you. Its called finding the correct line in any given situation.
Regarding "play-to-win", if you want to play "competitive" magic then yes, you have to invest in the cards to be competitive. If you dont want to, then just play draft. Arena may be a casual forum but the decks being played are more often than not of a competitive nature.
No deck is going to have a good matchup against everything. Thats not how Magic works
Holy ***** dude not even close. You don't draw your pieces in chess and need to rely on RNG giving you your Bishop when you need it. Your opponent cant be playing a board that directly counters your board. Chess is equal and balanced on both sides, the only exception being someone plays first. Not anywhere near a comparison to MTG.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
On a serious note, they did alter a number of uncommons, rares and even a few commons to specifically answer planeswalkers. There is a lot of paper in the format to answer the rocks. Planeswalkers are showing up more than ever because there are more than ever but they are far from dominating.
a 6 cost artifact is really not a balancing factor.
Of course you could attack their PWs, but that assumes they have no creatures to block. And, of course, while you are attacking their PWs, you have spared their player from taking any damage, while you, with no PWs, aw taking blunt trauma to your player and moving you closer to death. Just having to deal with PWs and attacking them instead of their player IS part of their dominating factors.
I will take a look around for those Tier 1 anti-planeswalker decks. I see more than enough Tier 1 decks with planeswalkers o plenty.
This does not include any counters, discard spells, or other means to deal with walkers from previous sets (Bedevil comes to mind, along with Shock, Lightning Strike, and Vraska's Contempt). In short, there are a lot of ways to deal with walkers. The only color that can't on it's own is Green. Red and Black have the easiest time, but that's understandable as well.
Standard - Some kind of control
Modern - UB Mill (casual)
EDH - Meren's Grave Shenanigans
When your opponent is able to stick one or more strong walkers while still having the board presence to protect them and/or attacking you for significant damage while you lack other answers, you probably were behind before the walker(s) hit the board, they just appear to be the reason for your situation because they're flashy.
Also, depending on the overall situation, not every walker is an immediate must-answer threat. They tend to provide strong effects, but sometimes it's better to ignore them and keep pressuring your opponent instead of getting distracted by single cards mostly because of their type.
W(W/U)U Ephara - Flash & Taxes W(W/U)U || B(B/G)G Meren - Circle of Life B(B/G)G
RGW Marath - Ever shifting Wilds RGW || (U/R)C(W/B) Breya - Artificial Dominion (U/R)C(W/B)
UBR Becket Brass - take what you can, give nothing back UBR
It's not that bad.
Being a 5-cmc walker, and belonging to a mono-coloured archetype, I have no problem with it having a powerful effect.
Being a 20-yr MTG player, I kinda like a big swing in the game to something different. Once the new sets come out after rotation, I'm sure there will be a large amount of answers being printed.
On the opposite end of the continuum lies Tic-Tac-Toe. It will never change and never presents new challenges. You figure out a strategy to win (or just draw) every time and that's pretty much it. The strategy you've always relied on will probably work forever.
Magic isn't like that. Thank God for that.
If what you're doing isn't working, HINT HINT, time to explore new cards and new strategies that do work. They do exist, you're just not interested in using any of them. (Seems to me..) You'd rather just spam the board with dudes and go aggro.
Ever run into problems with Wrath of God? What did you do about it? It's like that. Good luck.
Fully-powered 600-Card "Dream Cube" https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/dreamcube
450-Card "Artificer's Cube" https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/artificer
Cubing in Indianapolis...send me a PM!!
Regarding "play-to-win", if you want to play "competitive" magic then yes, you have to invest in the cards to be competitive. If you dont want to, then just play draft. Arena may be a casual forum but the decks being played are more often than not of a competitive nature.
No deck is going to have a good matchup against everything. Thats not how Magic works
MTG is a brutal, unforgiving game.
imo, I can't compare it to chess, it might take some ideas from chess, but they two are nothing alike. Now for the planeswalkers, they have been around for a long time, it's just we have a lot more now and we are seeing more superfriends decks now. As stated, decks you build are not gonna be good in every matchup. So, you have to build a deck and try to find removal in the shell you choose that works best.
Sometimes you find the answer and you can remove the walker.
Sometimes you don't and it ends up being a massacre, or a Massacre Girl
Sometimes you can ignore a walker and drop bigger threats that are harder to interact with to make it easier to punch in like Carnage Tyrant
Sometimes you answer threat after threat and you still die because your opponent is just better than you. Esper Control
with that said I do like Kiora, Behemoth Beckoner
-Stay Frosty
But complaining about the game when you're 40 days into playing it... geez... just quit and play something else that doesn't aggravate you. And spare us all your indignation.
The best way to answer walkers is just by having enough pressure to take them out immediately without having to spend cards (or by countering them, or killing their controller). But if your opponent untaps with them once or twice, the advantage can often be insurmountable.
GX Tron XG
UR Phoenix RU
GG Freyalise High Tide GG
UR Parun Counterspells RU
BB Yawgmoth Token Storm BB
WB Pestilence BW
When I first joined arena, I blew all my rares on lands. It was a good decision in hindsight. Seeing as rotation isn't that far away, I'd probably avoid the check-lands like Dragonskull Summit should you be short on rares, but I'd grab the shock lands for the decks you want to play.
Yeah I like this one too. I've been doing a few different brews but so far Gruul-stompy seems the best home AFAIK. I hope I'm wrong on that, Gruul is so linear and dull to play.
If you have an empty board and a walker resolves you are probably losing. However, if you have an empty board essentially any bomb resolving is going to win. The trick is not having an empty board. accomplish this by playing resilant threats or multiple threats a turn.
Holy ***** dude not even close. You don't draw your pieces in chess and need to rely on RNG giving you your Bishop when you need it. Your opponent cant be playing a board that directly counters your board. Chess is equal and balanced on both sides, the only exception being someone plays first. Not anywhere near a comparison to MTG.