I haven't had this issue with dragon shields since I've bought 2 packs of turqouise and 2 packs of matte red before:
What brand deck box is that in this picture? Looks like the kind I'd like to pick up some of to replace some old Ultra-Pro ones I have that are coming apart.
that's the basic deck box from max protection, that's an old deckbox from 2-3 years ago, i'm not really sure if they still make one like it.
here's the same deck box though in a toploading version ((mine's sideloading)
Ah, ok, yeah, I've seen the toploaders, I was interested in sideloaders.
I'll hunt around though, thanks!
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"The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
—Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order
Ugh. Bought Red Dragon Shield Matte sleeves for my Puphoros EDH deck the other day. It was my first time buying matte Dragon Shields, as I've exclusively been buying KMC hyper-matte sleeves since I 1.) started using matte sleeves almost exclusively, and 2.) started double sleeving because of bowing from Texas humidity (using UltraPro Ultra Fits). Well, I'm finding most cards in the Ultra Fit sleeves won't fit in Dragon Shield Matte sleeves like they do with Hyper Mattes, so I'm somewhat disappointed. Get the cards about 3/4ths into the sleeve and the Ultra Fits start trying to hug up and there's just simply no room. I've double sleeved several decks with Ultra Fits using KMC Hyper Matte sleeves with no issue. It looks like I'll be sticking to KMC since Ultra Pro products are still low quality and split left and right and Dragon Shield don't fit the perfect fits properly :/
My question now is related to the backside of the sleeves. Is the backside identic? Or are there differences on the back, too? Thank you for your answers
I have both in blue- the regular I bought a few years ago, and the matte front ones have trickled in via Puca trades. The backs of most are the same, but there are a few of the matte front sleeves that are a slightly darker blue. it is not so you would notice if the two aren't side by side, but you couldn't use them (the darker ones) both in a deck together. Otherwise I have been known to absent mindedly put them in decks without noticing until I draw that card.
@Xenfire: I can attest that kmc perfect fits slide easily into both DS mat and KMC hyper mat. The tighter fit keeps them from sliding up.
Re: DS opacity- all DS non-metallic color of their original product line are noticeably less opaque when empty and held up to a light. In the right light I have been able to see the card back through when my opponent is using the green and blue ones, but in most settings I can't.
KMC makes a standard glossy sleeve in almost the same blue as DS, and I realized I had both when taking inventory of my sleeves. There was just the slightest hint of one behind darker than the other. It is enough that I could tell if they had cards them and were in the same deck, but it was really hard to tell in indoor light side by side when they didn't have cards. I finally was sorting them in bright natural light and realized that their opacities are dramatically different, which made sorting possible.
I seem to recall that the red matte DS are as opaque as hyper mats, but I only checked once when my son bought them. I have just stuck to hyper mats so I can't say for sure on the red or any finish or metallic color.
In all the time I've been using them I can count on one hand how many times I've had a sleeve split. I did once get a bad batch of Perfect Fits, they were too loose and damn near impossible to double sleeve, but out of all the packs I've opened this has only happened once.
I dislike Ultra-Pro and would never recommend them to anyone. Aside from cool artwork, I find the sleeves jank. Dragonshield is far more tolerable, but I will always use KMC first - all other brands are second.
that's pretty much how I feel about sleeves now. KMCs with perfect fits are my favourite combination. If I can't get KMCs for whatever reason, I'll get Dragonsheild Mattes
Ultra Pro is just terrible. The Mattes without Art are just inferior to KMC and Dragonshield and the ones with art either just break/wear down quickly or get sticky and hard to shuffle
Has anyone here experienced a terrible quality with KMC Hyper Matte Premium? The last 4 packs that I bought within the last month are splitting along the bottom part of the sleeves. I would say between 5-10 of them split on me within 1 week of use. I've never had this experience with the regular KMC Hyper Matte but I really like the shuffle feel and the matte front of the premium.
Anyone else experiencing a downgrade in quality of KMC Hyper Matts (Black)?
KMC Perfect fits are as great as the ones I brought before. In comparison, Perfect fits are tougher than Hyper Matts.
Absolutely. Ran my previous ones for a year or two without any issues. Got a new pack a month ago and have already had to replace five sleeves because they keep tearing after regular shuffling. Enormous difference in quality - not buying these again.
I was looking at sleeves for a potential cube and I noticed Legion single mattes are pretty inexpensive. Has anyone used these particular sleeves before? Would you recommend them?
Ugh. Bought Red Dragon Shield Matte sleeves for my Puphoros EDH deck the other day. It was my first time buying matte Dragon Shields, as I've exclusively been buying KMC hyper-matte sleeves since I 1.) started using matte sleeves almost exclusively, and 2.) started double sleeving because of bowing from Texas humidity (using UltraPro Ultra Fits). Well, I'm finding most cards in the Ultra Fit sleeves won't fit in Dragon Shield Matte sleeves like they do with Hyper Mattes, so I'm somewhat disappointed. Get the cards about 3/4ths into the sleeve and the Ultra Fits start trying to hug up and there's just simply no room. I've double sleeved several decks with Ultra Fits using KMC Hyper Matte sleeves with no issue. It looks like I'll be sticking to KMC since Ultra Pro products are still low quality and split left and right and Dragon Shield don't fit the perfect fits properly :/
Dragon Shields have always been a bit of a hassle to double sleeve with, but the mattes are reasonably co-operative by their standards. The trick is to slide the card in normally until you hit the point of "hugging up", and then you just ram your index finger down the middle of the sleeve, push the card up against the back of the sleeve and slide it in to the bottom. Works fine, and the perfect fit just barely slides off (if at all), the seal is still there. True, it's not ideal, but in a world where KMC Hyper Mats started splitting the hassle is well worth it for the quality Dragon Shields provide (with the mattes solving a lot of the problems of the original run).
Also I would not recommend the legion mattes for single sleeving, can't voice an opinion on double sleeving though.
Also I would not recommend the legion mattes for single sleeving, can't voice an opinion on double sleeving though.
Why not?
I don't anticipate double sleeving the cube that I plan on using these for since even most rares are going to be <$2; I just want an inexpensive sleeve that won't stick together or be constantly splitting. I asked about legion single matte because they're currently marked down on Legion's website and that brand has a reputation for durability.
Also I would not recommend the legion mattes for single sleeving, can't voice an opinion on double sleeving though.
Why not?
I don't anticipate double sleeving the cube that I plan on using these for since even most rares are going to be <$2; I just want an inexpensive sleeve that won't stick together or be constantly splitting. I asked about legion single matte because they're currently marked down on Legion's website and that brand has a reputation for durability.
I single sleeved a commander deck in some sort of unillustrated legion mattes and the sleeves went dog eared quickly, making shuffling a nightmare. Not 100% sure it's the same sleeve you're looking at though.
So, my LGS ran out of DS Matte and they told me they won't be restocking anytime soon since their order for hypermattes just arrived, I had no choice but to buy a couple of hypermatte blues since it's pptq season here.
Resleeved my modern deck in hypermattes and was finally able to do an A and B comparison.
It has been said before and this is just a revisit,
Hypermatte - The deck's thinner when double sleeved compared against Ds Shields, they really do shuffle better than DS and they're easier to double sleeve.
DS - they're really thick in a sense that your card's totally protected since there's a bit of extra on the top unlike hypermattes. They do come in 100's so had some extra to sleeve the extra sb cards but they're more expensive
Will come back later again today to buy a couple more hypermatte blues, I don't want to run out since it's pptq/wmcq season here and everybody's changing sleeves here and there.
ultra pro - I use these for cheap cubes and draft. The sleeves are hit or miss though. I just bought some ultrapro sleeves that came kind of warped. Does anyone else have that experience?
KMC matte black - I use 66X92 mm. That one extra mm makes a huge difference. Cards sometimes stick out of the 91 mm sleeve when not pushed down properly. ie I am not a fan of any 91 mm sleeve
Something's been up with KMC recently - someone posted about the edges being rough earlier in this thread, and though I haven't had that problem, I have seen them splitting easier recently (almost as easily as Ultra Pros - you can pull them apart with almost no pressure at all). Also, a friend and I have both had issues with their perfect fits being slightly taller than usual, almost to the point that they stick out of the top of the outer sleeve.
Just a word of warning for anyone looking to get KMCs - I'm still a fan of them for their shuffling feel, but their quality seems to be taking a dive.
Has anyone tried any of the new Dragon Shield Mattes double sleeved? Any luck?
They double sleeve perfectly well. Mind you, I use KMC Perfect Fits only.
A friend of mine was double sleeving with Ultra-Pro Perfect Fits and Dragon Shield Mattes a while back. He seemed to be having trouble, so I took one and sleeved it up to see if maybe he had a bad batch of sleeves or something. Went in perfectly smooth. Not exactly sure where his technique was having issues, I presume it was in his method of sliding the perfect fitted card down into the sleeve. I guess somehow I developed a good technique? I have done it quite a bit, so maybe I did. You results may vary depending on your technique.
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"The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
—Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order
Has anyone tried any of the new Dragon Shield Mattes double sleeved? Any luck?
They double sleeve perfectly well. Mind you, I use KMC Perfect Fits only.
A friend of mine was double sleeving with Ultra-Pro Perfect Fits and Dragon Shield Mattes a while back. He seemed to be having trouble, so I took one and sleeved it up to see if maybe he had a bad batch of sleeves or something. Went in perfectly smooth. Not exactly sure where his technique was having issues, I presume it was in his method of sliding the perfect fitted card down into the sleeve. I guess somehow I developed a good technique? I have done it quite a bit, so maybe I did. You results may vary depending on your technique.
Was he on Abzan? Some guys just struggle sleeving their Junk, never mind double sleeving it.
Was he on Abzan? Some guys just struggle sleeving their Junk, never mind double sleeving it.
U/R Delver, we play Legacy. I think you should realize there's no way that would be an issue in this case,
Anyone gotten any of the "new" Dragon Shield Mattes yet? Ivory, Sky Blue and Apple Green were just recently released. Any difference to the older Mattes?
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"The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
—Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order
Alright, I bought some KMC Hyper Mattes and Perfect Fits and double sleeved my deck.
However, I had a lot of issues getting some of the cards into the sleeves; the inner sleeve would start to come off of the outer sleeve. I had to hold my finger along the back of the card to get it to move in there with the sleeve in tact, but then I had issues with air pockets. I ended up squeezing my deck to flatten it out, which helped, and started shuffling the deck to try and break the sleeves in.
When I shuffled the deck, I had a few cards that started to push their way out of the outer sleeve. It was noticeable enough that, when looking at the deck top down, I could instantly pick out which ones were sliding.
Do Hyper Mattes have a sort of "break in" period to them? Is this expected? Everything I've seen online suggests that Hyper Mattes + Perfect Fits should largely be no hassle, so I'm wondering if I'm doing something wrong or if I just need to be patient.
Ah, ok, yeah, I've seen the toploaders, I was interested in sideloaders.
I'll hunt around though, thanks!
—Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order
Hoping for a cure, or at least an outbreak.
Level 1 Judge (yay)
(Also known as Xenphire)
I have both in blue- the regular I bought a few years ago, and the matte front ones have trickled in via Puca trades. The backs of most are the same, but there are a few of the matte front sleeves that are a slightly darker blue. it is not so you would notice if the two aren't side by side, but you couldn't use them (the darker ones) both in a deck together. Otherwise I have been known to absent mindedly put them in decks without noticing until I draw that card.
@Xenfire: I can attest that kmc perfect fits slide easily into both DS mat and KMC hyper mat. The tighter fit keeps them from sliding up.
Re: DS opacity- all DS non-metallic color of their original product line are noticeably less opaque when empty and held up to a light. In the right light I have been able to see the card back through when my opponent is using the green and blue ones, but in most settings I can't.
KMC makes a standard glossy sleeve in almost the same blue as DS, and I realized I had both when taking inventory of my sleeves. There was just the slightest hint of one behind darker than the other. It is enough that I could tell if they had cards them and were in the same deck, but it was really hard to tell in indoor light side by side when they didn't have cards. I finally was sorting them in bright natural light and realized that their opacities are dramatically different, which made sorting possible.
I seem to recall that the red matte DS are as opaque as hyper mats, but I only checked once when my son bought them. I have just stuck to hyper mats so I can't say for sure on the red or any finish or metallic color.
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Staffthat's pretty much how I feel about sleeves now. KMCs with perfect fits are my favourite combination. If I can't get KMCs for whatever reason, I'll get Dragonsheild Mattes
Ultra Pro is just terrible. The Mattes without Art are just inferior to KMC and Dragonshield and the ones with art either just break/wear down quickly or get sticky and hard to shuffle
Anyone else had the same experience?
Absolutely. Ran my previous ones for a year or two without any issues. Got a new pack a month ago and have already had to replace five sleeves because they keep tearing after regular shuffling. Enormous difference in quality - not buying these again.
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
Dragon Shields have always been a bit of a hassle to double sleeve with, but the mattes are reasonably co-operative by their standards. The trick is to slide the card in normally until you hit the point of "hugging up", and then you just ram your index finger down the middle of the sleeve, push the card up against the back of the sleeve and slide it in to the bottom. Works fine, and the perfect fit just barely slides off (if at all), the seal is still there. True, it's not ideal, but in a world where KMC Hyper Mats started splitting the hassle is well worth it for the quality Dragon Shields provide (with the mattes solving a lot of the problems of the original run).
Also I would not recommend the legion mattes for single sleeving, can't voice an opinion on double sleeving though.
Why not?
I don't anticipate double sleeving the cube that I plan on using these for since even most rares are going to be <$2; I just want an inexpensive sleeve that won't stick together or be constantly splitting. I asked about legion single matte because they're currently marked down on Legion's website and that brand has a reputation for durability.
I single sleeved a commander deck in some sort of unillustrated legion mattes and the sleeves went dog eared quickly, making shuffling a nightmare. Not 100% sure it's the same sleeve you're looking at though.
Resleeved my modern deck in hypermattes and was finally able to do an A and B comparison.
It has been said before and this is just a revisit,
Hypermatte - The deck's thinner when double sleeved compared against Ds Shields, they really do shuffle better than DS and they're easier to double sleeve.
DS - they're really thick in a sense that your card's totally protected since there's a bit of extra on the top unlike hypermattes. They do come in 100's so had some extra to sleeve the extra sb cards but they're more expensive
Will come back later again today to buy a couple more hypermatte blues, I don't want to run out since it's pptq/wmcq season here and everybody's changing sleeves here and there.
KMC matte black - I use 66X92 mm. That one extra mm makes a huge difference. Cards sometimes stick out of the 91 mm sleeve when not pushed down properly. ie I am not a fan of any 91 mm sleeve
KMC - perfect fits are the best.
Just a word of warning for anyone looking to get KMCs - I'm still a fan of them for their shuffling feel, but their quality seems to be taking a dive.
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It sounds like double sleeving with Perfect Fits helps preserve the corners of sleeves though, so maybe I finally need to start doing that.
I've also read some recent complaints about KMC Hyper Mattes splitting.
Has anyone tried any of the new Dragon Shield Mattes double sleeved? Any luck?
Also curious if Legion is tolerable with double sleeves; sounds like the corners get jacked up on those single sleeved.
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They double sleeve perfectly well. Mind you, I use KMC Perfect Fits only.
A friend of mine was double sleeving with Ultra-Pro Perfect Fits and Dragon Shield Mattes a while back. He seemed to be having trouble, so I took one and sleeved it up to see if maybe he had a bad batch of sleeves or something. Went in perfectly smooth. Not exactly sure where his technique was having issues, I presume it was in his method of sliding the perfect fitted card down into the sleeve. I guess somehow I developed a good technique? I have done it quite a bit, so maybe I did. You results may vary depending on your technique.
—Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order
Was he on Abzan? Some guys just struggle sleeving their Junk, never mind double sleeving it.
Want to be a better Magic player? Read the rulings forum and check out the comprehensive rules!
U/R Delver, we play Legacy. I think you should realize there's no way that would be an issue in this case,
Anyone gotten any of the "new" Dragon Shield Mattes yet? Ivory, Sky Blue and Apple Green were just recently released. Any difference to the older Mattes?
—Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
However, I had a lot of issues getting some of the cards into the sleeves; the inner sleeve would start to come off of the outer sleeve. I had to hold my finger along the back of the card to get it to move in there with the sleeve in tact, but then I had issues with air pockets. I ended up squeezing my deck to flatten it out, which helped, and started shuffling the deck to try and break the sleeves in.
When I shuffled the deck, I had a few cards that started to push their way out of the outer sleeve. It was noticeable enough that, when looking at the deck top down, I could instantly pick out which ones were sliding.
Do Hyper Mattes have a sort of "break in" period to them? Is this expected? Everything I've seen online suggests that Hyper Mattes + Perfect Fits should largely be no hassle, so I'm wondering if I'm doing something wrong or if I just need to be patient.
Want to be a better Magic player? Read the rulings forum and check out the comprehensive rules!