Firstly, the credit for this goes to my friend and fellow Czech MTGS member Andethir, who pointed this out first for me.
The image of Daxos's Torment almost certainly depicts what happened to Xenagos.
The figure of the demon has several visual cues pointing to it being the new form of the former satyr planeswalker. I tried to highlight them all in the image below. Unfortunately, there is no larger image of the Torment available than the blurry one.
The horns on its head correspond to Xenagos god depictions and the altar on Rollick of Abandon (yellow)
The lanternlike shape between the horns correspond to the head of Xenagos's staff. (red)
The clawlike marks on his pectorals correspond to his body paint in god form, they differ only in directions and color. (green)
Finally, we know that only the most ruthless and powerful denizens of the Underworld are capable to break the bonds, escape and become demons. And Xenagos has a history of defying gods, authorities and breaking limits.
What do you think? Certainly a nice setup for Return to Theros.
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Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
I think it's far more likely that "Daxos' Torment" is taking the form of Xenagos. He lost everything because of Xenagos, and the demons tormenting him know it. It's a twisted mockery of Xenagos, I doubt it's actually him on a non-legendary card.
I'm not saying that he didn't become a demon, but in this case I really don't think it's him. Great catch, though.
Return to Theroes Already has a great hook, with Ashiok, Dack and Elspeth in the underworld.
The horns on the demon are at best vaguely reminiscent of the ones on the throne (they look more like Atarka horns than Xenagos ones). Tribal markings on Xenagos are handprints, while the demon has random lines of a different color.
PLus, we are not sure of the timeline - this is a demon that torments Daxos in death and (un)life. This happened way before Xenagos was ever killed.
Evoking the image of Xenagod is the most likely scenario, but good observations!
Daxos's death was not that long before Xenagos's fall and his unlife was supposed to be either immediately before or right after depending on when Erebos made good on the deal. There is no real confusion on the timeline it was all very nicely spelled out in the books.
The horns on the demon are at best vaguely reminiscent of the ones on the throne (they look more like Atarka horns than Xenagos ones). Tribal markings on Xenagos are handprints, while the demon has random lines of a different color.
Fair point, but I think that the overall impression of the markings is intentionally very similar. As for the horns, the main point are not the large antlers, but the small central cluster.
I think it's far more likely that "Daxos' Torment" is taking the form of Xenagos. He lost everything because of Xenagos, and the demons tormenting him know it. It's a twisted mockery of Xenagos, I doubt it's actually him on a non-legendary card.
Return to Theroes Already has a great hook, with Ashiok, Dack and Elspeth in the underworld.
Fair point. We will see. We can agree that the demon has at least three aspects reminiscent of Xenagos, so it is either him in some sort or a demon intentionally adopting such form.
I don't think the demon *is* Xenagos, but like others have said I think it's intentionally using the motifs because that would be the most effective way to torment Daxos.
Return to Theroes Already has a great hook, with Ashiok, Dack and Elspeth in the underworld.
I hope we follow up on Daxos's mother as well. After all, Elspeth and Daxos do attempt to journey into the underworld themselves in order to attempt saving her, and fail. But that's also where Elspeth first learns of The Returned, and the flower Asphodel. I still wonder if the lovers had something up their sleeve for Erebos all along, especially Elspeth.
I don't think the demon *is* Xenagos, but like others have said I think it's intentionally using the motifs because that would be the most effective way to torment Daxos.
Thinking of this suggestion over and over yesterday, the claim that it is "the most effective way to torment Daxos" seems to be baseless. At least if you consider the Godsend novel to be the canon source.
Daxos have not even meet Xenagos, either in his satyr or his god form. Ever.
Xenagos made Elspeth kill Daxos in a dream. Then he ascended to Nyx, and Daxos was already dead by then. Elspeth went to Nyx, taking the ordeal of Erebos to get there.
After she struck down Xenagos, she claimed the reward from Erebos - exchanging her life for his release from the Underworld.
We might very well assume that Daxos left the Underworld as Returned about the same time Xenagos entered it.
The point is that although Xenagos knew Daxos (if only as a tool to hurt Elspeth), Daxos did not know Xenagos.
Hence, the demon taking the form reminiscent of Xenagos has nothing to do with the torment efficacy in regard to Daxos. Moreover, Daxos is a Returned now, something that has very limited perception capabilities.
My guess is that it is indeed Xenagos (resp. his soul...after all we KNOW that only the strongest souls can escape Erebos as demons) escaping underworld to torment Daxos, but not because of him, but as a way to take his revenge on Elspeth, who is currently trapped in the Underworld, probably with no means to stop him from doing pretty much what he wants with Daxos in the mortal realm.
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i doubt that we will see xenagos as a demon, since we just got our demon planeswalker with ob nixilis
having a demon planeswalker doesn't mean anything we already had Nicol bolas who was a dragon planeswalker but we still got ugin and we have quite a few human planeswalkers
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The image of Daxos's Torment almost certainly depicts what happened to Xenagos.
The figure of the demon has several visual cues pointing to it being the new form of the former satyr planeswalker. I tried to highlight them all in the image below. Unfortunately, there is no larger image of the Torment available than the blurry one.
The horns on its head correspond to Xenagos god depictions and the altar on Rollick of Abandon (yellow)
The lanternlike shape between the horns correspond to the head of Xenagos's staff. (red)
The clawlike marks on his pectorals correspond to his body paint in god form, they differ only in directions and color. (green)
Finally, we know that only the most ruthless and powerful denizens of the Underworld are capable to break the bonds, escape and become demons. And Xenagos has a history of defying gods, authorities and breaking limits.
What do you think? Certainly a nice setup for Return to Theros.
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
I agree that this is possible but its also easy to explain as a demon evoking the image of Xenagos as part of the torture.
I'm not saying that he didn't become a demon, but in this case I really don't think it's him. Great catch, though.
Return to Theroes Already has a great hook, with Ashiok, Dack and Elspeth in the underworld.
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Daxos's death was not that long before Xenagos's fall and his unlife was supposed to be either immediately before or right after depending on when Erebos made good on the deal. There is no real confusion on the timeline it was all very nicely spelled out in the books.
Fair point, but I think that the overall impression of the markings is intentionally very similar. As for the horns, the main point are not the large antlers, but the small central cluster.
Fair point. We will see. We can agree that the demon has at least three aspects reminiscent of Xenagos, so it is either him in some sort or a demon intentionally adopting such form.
Heh, thanks, but like I said, this guy was the first to notice and point out to me.
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
I don't think the demon *is* Xenagos, but like others have said I think it's intentionally using the motifs because that would be the most effective way to torment Daxos.
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I hope we follow up on Daxos's mother as well. After all, Elspeth and Daxos do attempt to journey into the underworld themselves in order to attempt saving her, and fail. But that's also where Elspeth first learns of The Returned, and the flower Asphodel. I still wonder if the lovers had something up their sleeve for Erebos all along, especially Elspeth.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
Thinking of this suggestion over and over yesterday, the claim that it is "the most effective way to torment Daxos" seems to be baseless. At least if you consider the Godsend novel to be the canon source.
Daxos have not even meet Xenagos, either in his satyr or his god form. Ever.
Xenagos made Elspeth kill Daxos in a dream. Then he ascended to Nyx, and Daxos was already dead by then. Elspeth went to Nyx, taking the ordeal of Erebos to get there.
After she struck down Xenagos, she claimed the reward from Erebos - exchanging her life for his release from the Underworld.
We might very well assume that Daxos left the Underworld as Returned about the same time Xenagos entered it.
The point is that although Xenagos knew Daxos (if only as a tool to hurt Elspeth), Daxos did not know Xenagos.
Hence, the demon taking the form reminiscent of Xenagos has nothing to do with the torment efficacy in regard to Daxos. Moreover, Daxos is a Returned now, something that has very limited perception capabilities.
My guess is that it is indeed Xenagos (resp. his soul...after all we KNOW that only the strongest souls can escape Erebos as demons) escaping underworld to torment Daxos, but not because of him, but as a way to take his revenge on Elspeth, who is currently trapped in the Underworld, probably with no means to stop him from doing pretty much what he wants with Daxos in the mortal realm.
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
having a demon planeswalker doesn't mean anything we already had Nicol bolas who was a dragon planeswalker but we still got ugin and we have quite a few human planeswalkers