the Battle of Zendikar is coming. And in order to have something to battle for and have a setting for the cards, the world have to, well, exist.
What we know:
- the Titans were roaming free and the people of Zendikar were, in fact, fighting a losing battle (The Battle for Fort Keff, for example)
- when Jace planeswalked to Zendikar during The Secretist he found the world silent and quite lifeless, with people hiding underground
- Entire cultures, nations and even CONTINENTS were allegedly destroyed, among others:
- the Joraga elves (Nissa, Worldwaker)
- the Bala Ged continent (Dreams of the Damned)
- to spice it up, there is an angry demon inside the world, planning on taking revenge on it.
As we learned from Scars of Mirrodin and Return to Ravnica, when it comes to the biggest marketing faces of the set, almost no retconning (especially of inconvenient book facts)is holy to Wizards.
All people on Mirrodin vanished? Oh hey, actually they do not, and they can all be compleated! Hooray!
The Ravnica guilds dissolved? Oh look, they reformed!
Yes, for Zendikar, there is nothing really outstanding flavorwise in the same vein, the set was sold mainly on the old treasures and enemy fetchlands.
Still, I am very intrigued how they are going to explain why the world is not a lifeless husk devoid of all life and mana, when by all measures it should be. Your opinions?
P.S. Yes, I am intentionally being snide about it all, it is quite the last thing left to me when looking at the current state of Magic "lore".
Still, I think this is not flaming or trolling, and I will welcome your opinions.
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Former Fact Prospector of the Greek Alliance.
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
The block starts exactly one day, two hours, 28 minutes after Nissa's UR tale ended. Done.
One continent was destroyed at that point? Zendikar has 7 of them, so even if two others were also annihilated by the time BfZ opens, we're still about half the world still holding together. We could see something as bad as Time Spiral-era Dominaria or Mirrodin Besieged and still have a story.
It is very clear Sorin still expects Zendikar to still exist by the time he comes there to meet Ugin, and he knows better about the whole situation than you or me.
The 'coup out', or however you want to call it, is already clearly set down: only one Titan (the weakest one, at that) remains in the world (it wasn't directly established yet, but it is very very clear it's the case), the other two left. So the destruction has slowed down somewhat. And Ob is more a minor player who desires the end of the world than someone actively making as much as a difference as your average non-spawn non-drone Eldrazi.
I reckon that Emrakul and Kozilek will conveniently return to the big showdown just when needed.
As for the Bala Ged & Joraga destruction, this is a matter how much the world can be destroyed to be still recognizable.
Dominaria? Special case with source material amount incomparable to any other setting.
A world ravaged by invaders, people fighting a losing war? Yes, Mirrodin Besieged worked - but concerning Eldrazi vs. Zendikar, we got that already in Rise of the Eldrazi.
I am just curious whether they will just ignore it and we will see Bala Ged or Joraga cards. I am fully prepared to see them ignore what Jace saw in The Secretist, as they tend to do with all book facts recently, but ignoring their own UR would be another spit in the face of Vorthosi.
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Former Fact Prospector of the Greek Alliance.
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
I reckon that Emrakul and Kozilek will conveniently return to the big showdown just when needed.
I'd bet each one will be the focus of separated blocks down the line, showing up in some other plane. After all, Nicol Bolas has some kind of plan or use for them.
This block will most likely be about saving Zendikar and/or bringing Ulamog down, at some great price.
There are two options (OK, feel free to add more.) The better one: the plot will start shortly after Zendikar block, and will be more or less parallel with Return to Ravnica. The denizens of Zendikar will be fighting a losing battle. The all-planeswalker fight will be introduced in the second set (which could very well come after Tarkir block, time-wise). How many Multiverse years elapsed between Zendikar and Tarkir? Five, ten, twenty?
The worst: Anything is possible, because Sarkhan and his time shenanigans :-(
Wasn't it confirmed somewhere during that planeswalker catch up article that the events of Zendikar happened two years prior to, at the very least, the end of Theros Block. I also can't figure that Tarkir took a year on the Multiverse Timeline. I believe that it will be about 2 to 3 years from when we last left Zendikar for this storyline.
As another note, I'm quite confident in the creative team for whats to come, yes many UR's were sub-par at best, but (a small) part of the reason the block formats are changing is to help out creative in creating a more cohesive and better paced storyline. So hopefully less filler, more actual focus on the plot.
There are two options (OK, feel free to add more.) The better one: the plot will start shortly after Zendikar block, and will be more or less parallel with Return to Ravnica. The denizens of Zendikar will be fighting a losing battle. The all-planeswalker fight will be introduced in the second set (which could very well come after Tarkir block, time-wise). How many Multiverse years elapsed between Zendikar and Tarkir? Five, ten, twenty?
The worst: Anything is possible, because Sarkhan and his time shenanigans :-(
Sarkhan's shenanigans didn't have any effect on Zendikar: the only plane altered by his time traveling is Tarkir : )
The youtube teaser showed the land become lifeless and devoid so I figure the first set is fighting the Eldrazi and the second set is mourning the loss of Zendikar as it became a lifeless husk of a plane.
Here's the important part, relevant to this disucssion:
"5. The Eldrazi were still released.
After his sudden appearance, Sarkhan went on to play a tangential role in the events of Shards of Alara block and a crucial role in the events of Zendikar block, not to mention precipitating the change that erased his own homeworld from history. Everything he did while away from Tarkir, and everything that resulted from that, still happened."
The only changes in the timeline happened in Tarkir, nothing else is changed.
Original timeline : Bolas kills Ugin, Dragons disappear. Eldrazi are freed.
New and Actual timeline : Bolas strikes Ugin, considers him dead. Ugin is saved by Sarkhan, takes a long nap, awakens in modern days, dragons are still alive and kicking. Eldrazi are still freed.
History as a whole didn't change, only Tarkir's. The only new thing on the table is Ugin, who's alive, a fact Bolas doesn't know about.
To be fair, Jace could easily have simply appeared near where he left, which would have been the hardest hit area. I imagine we'll see a devastated Zendikar, but not one that's completely lifeless. The end of in the teeth of akoum showed the beginning of rebuilding, with new trees being grown.
I reckon that Emrakul and Kozilek will conveniently return to the big showdown just when needed.
I'd bet each one will be the focus of separated blocks down the line, showing up in some other plane. After all, Nicol Bolas has some kind of plan or use for them.
This block will most likely be about saving Zendikar and/or bringing Ulamog down, at some great price.
Can you realistically imagine that all three titans are not getting new cards in BTZ? Especially from a viewpoint of average Joe who does not exactly follow the story? Yes, they have been just put into MM15, but still...
There is something on what you are suggesting (after all, they drop hints here and there that "the other two has not been seen".)
The problem is - Ugin does not want the Eldrazi killed, but not wandering the Blind Eternities either. He wants them imprisoned. (Funny thing: I just remember Baldur's Gate 2 and its datadisc Throne of Bhaal, with its Watcher's Keep and imprisoned demon prince Demogorgon. Pretty much the same thing here)
We would be talking about a scenario where Sorin, Ugin and Nahiri are hunting down all three Eldrazi and imprisoning them probably on separate planes, and meeting thus the Eldrazi again and again. Unless these blocks are well separated, this might be a problem. On the other hand, with the blocks now changing twice as fast, we MIGHT be indeed seeing the setup for another overarching mega-story.
Well, maybe you are really onto something here.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
100% Vorthos Spike and Storyline Expert
Former Fact Prospector of the Greek Alliance.
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
I reckon that Emrakul and Kozilek will conveniently return to the big showdown just when needed.
I'd bet each one will be the focus of separated blocks down the line, showing up in some other plane. After all, Nicol Bolas has some kind of plan or use for them.
This block will most likely be about saving Zendikar and/or bringing Ulamog down, at some great price.
Can you realistically imagine that all three titans are not getting new cards in BTZ? Especially from a viewpoint of average Joe who does not exactly follow the story? Yes, they have been just put into MM15, but still...
Yes. Yes, I can. I'm fairly sure that only Ulamog will get a card on this block.
Being a two-set block with plenty of planeswalkers wanting to show up helps filling the mythic slots, you know.
It's been pretty apparent for a while that the Eldrazi are meant to be multi-block mega-villains, like the Phyrexians and Nicol Bolas. I feel confident in predicting that only Ulamog will get a card in BFZ.
Not sure where to post this and I'm notpositing anything but I find it interesting the shapes the headron pieces from the BFZ Symbol make when you play with them a little. It kinda looks familiar, but agin it could mean nothing..
ATTACHMENTS
Hedrons reshaped
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Wizards. listen. The Vorthos community will await the consequences of the Eldrazi Titans' deaths/sealing. We will keep the watch.
“The wind whispers, ‘come home,’ but I cannot.”
— Teferi
To be fair, Jace could easily have simply appeared near where he left, which would have been the hardest hit area. I imagine we'll see a devastated Zendikar, but not one that's completely lifeless. The end of in the teeth of akoum showed the beginning of rebuilding, with new trees being grown.
Well that sucks. I did not know that, and personally was hoping for a second chance at saving zendikar. But maybe we get to save whats left.
I think any victory will be bittersweet, but the Zendikar block story at least ended on a hopeful note (that if the Eldrazi don't destroy EVERYTHING, they can rebuild).
I reckon that Emrakul and Kozilek will conveniently return to the big showdown just when needed.
I'd bet each one will be the focus of separated blocks down the line, showing up in some other plane. After all, Nicol Bolas has some kind of plan or use for them.
This block will most likely be about saving Zendikar and/or bringing Ulamog down, at some great price.
Can you realistically imagine that all three titans are not getting new cards in BTZ? Especially from a viewpoint of average Joe who does not exactly follow the story? Yes, they have been just put into MM15, but still...
There is something on what you are suggesting (after all, they drop hints here and there that "the other two has not been seen".)
The problem is - Ugin does not want the Eldrazi killed, but not wandering the Blind Eternities either. He wants them imprisoned. (Funny thing: I just remember Baldur's Gate 2 and its datadisc Throne of Bhaal, with its Watcher's Keep and imprisoned demon prince Demogorgon. Pretty much the same thing here)
We would be talking about a scenario where Sorin, Ugin and Nahiri are hunting down all three Eldrazi and imprisoning them probably on separate planes, and meeting thus the Eldrazi again and again. Unless these blocks are well separated, this might be a problem. On the other hand, with the blocks now changing twice as fast, we MIGHT be indeed seeing the setup for another overarching mega-story.
Well, maybe you are really onto something here.
Err-ahhh, well. Its not that ugin Doesn't want them destroyed. He couldn't figure out a way to do so. So he lured them to Zendikar, forced them into a physical form, and using his breath and the help of the planeswalkers, entrapped them.
He doesn't want them destroyed, since he seems to think they could be a part of the ecology of the Multiverse. Since we don't know what effects their death would have, imprisoning them is the only option. He specificaly said so when talking with Nahiri and Sorin about the Eldrazi...
I reckon that Emrakul and Kozilek will conveniently return to the big showdown just when needed.
I'd bet each one will be the focus of separated blocks down the line, showing up in some other plane. After all, Nicol Bolas has some kind of plan or use for them.
This block will most likely be about saving Zendikar and/or bringing Ulamog down, at some great price.
Can you realistically imagine that all three titans are not getting new cards in BTZ? Especially from a viewpoint of average Joe who does not exactly follow the story? Yes, they have been just put into MM15, but still...
There is something on what you are suggesting (after all, they drop hints here and there that "the other two has not been seen".)
The problem is - Ugin does not want the Eldrazi killed, but not wandering the Blind Eternities either. He wants them imprisoned. (Funny thing: I just remember Baldur's Gate 2 and its datadisc Throne of Bhaal, with its Watcher's Keep and imprisoned demon prince Demogorgon. Pretty much the same thing here)
We would be talking about a scenario where Sorin, Ugin and Nahiri are hunting down all three Eldrazi and imprisoning them probably on separate planes, and meeting thus the Eldrazi again and again. Unless these blocks are well separated, this might be a problem. On the other hand, with the blocks now changing twice as fast, we MIGHT be indeed seeing the setup for another overarching mega-story.
Well, maybe you are really onto something here.
Err-ahhh, well. Its not that ugin Doesn't want them destroyed. He couldn't figure out a way to do so. So he lured them to Zendikar, forced them into a physical form, and using his breath and the help of the planeswalkers, entrapped them.
No. Read the articles properly, please. He thinks that they are inherently part of the Multiversal "ecology" - though he does not know exactly how - and that destroying them could have unpredicted consequences:
"We must find a way to destroy them," said Sorin.
"That may not be possible," said Ugin, "and it certainly isn't wise."
"Worlds are dying," said Nahiri. She rested her hand on the hilt of her sword. "What wisdom could there be in leaving these things alive?"
"Do you know what they are, Nahiri of Zendikar?" asked the dragon. He lowered his enormous head to look her in the eye. "Do you know if they inhabit some unseen ecology, or what will happen if they are destroyed? Do they deserve death? Does your moral judgment extend only to beings you understand? Can you answer any of these questions?"
He peered at Sorin.
"And Sorin, you of all people understand the necessity of balance.
EDIT: Okay, serves me right for starting typing the post, then leaving for 20 minutes...thanks Hyze for the summary
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Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
I predict that nahiri will show up very soon (emerging from the mountainside?), and ugin will arrive as well.
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"There is no greater folly than standing against me."
"No fact escapes me. Why do you think you can?"
"Where will you run when I punish you with the very ground you flee on?"
"You will fully understand fear when you discover it is the final thing you put your faith in."
"Your pathetic ideas lie in shambles, Planeswalker. Where is your arrogant pride now?"
"Do the innocent pay for the crimes of the guilty? Of course they do. That's the fate of the weak."
"Power is wasted on the weak. They never keep it for long."
"The essence of every world, every spell and every thought is power. Nothing else matters, because nothing else exists."
—Nicol Bolas
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the Battle of Zendikar is coming. And in order to have something to battle for and have a setting for the cards, the world have to, well, exist.
What we know:
- the Titans were roaming free and the people of Zendikar were, in fact, fighting a losing battle (The Battle for Fort Keff, for example)
- when Jace planeswalked to Zendikar during The Secretist he found the world silent and quite lifeless, with people hiding underground
- Entire cultures, nations and even CONTINENTS were allegedly destroyed, among others:
- the Joraga elves (Nissa, Worldwaker)
- the Bala Ged continent (Dreams of the Damned)
- to spice it up, there is an angry demon inside the world, planning on taking revenge on it.
As we learned from Scars of Mirrodin and Return to Ravnica, when it comes to the biggest marketing faces of the set, almost no retconning (especially of inconvenient book facts)is holy to Wizards.
All people on Mirrodin vanished? Oh hey, actually they do not, and they can all be compleated! Hooray!
The Ravnica guilds dissolved? Oh look, they reformed!
Yes, for Zendikar, there is nothing really outstanding flavorwise in the same vein, the set was sold mainly on the old treasures and enemy fetchlands.
Still, I am very intrigued how they are going to explain why the world is not a lifeless husk devoid of all life and mana, when by all measures it should be. Your opinions?
P.S. Yes, I am intentionally being snide about it all, it is quite the last thing left to me when looking at the current state of Magic "lore".
Still, I think this is not flaming or trolling, and I will welcome your opinions.
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
One continent was destroyed at that point? Zendikar has 7 of them, so even if two others were also annihilated by the time BfZ opens, we're still about half the world still holding together. We could see something as bad as Time Spiral-era Dominaria or Mirrodin Besieged and still have a story.
It is very clear Sorin still expects Zendikar to still exist by the time he comes there to meet Ugin, and he knows better about the whole situation than you or me.
The 'coup out', or however you want to call it, is already clearly set down: only one Titan (the weakest one, at that) remains in the world (it wasn't directly established yet, but it is very very clear it's the case), the other two left. So the destruction has slowed down somewhat. And Ob is more a minor player who desires the end of the world than someone actively making as much as a difference as your average non-spawn non-drone Eldrazi.
I reckon that Emrakul and Kozilek will conveniently return to the big showdown just when needed.
As for the Bala Ged & Joraga destruction, this is a matter how much the world can be destroyed to be still recognizable.
Dominaria? Special case with source material amount incomparable to any other setting.
A world ravaged by invaders, people fighting a losing war? Yes, Mirrodin Besieged worked - but concerning Eldrazi vs. Zendikar, we got that already in Rise of the Eldrazi.
I am just curious whether they will just ignore it and we will see Bala Ged or Joraga cards. I am fully prepared to see them ignore what Jace saw in The Secretist, as they tend to do with all book facts recently, but ignoring their own UR would be another spit in the face of Vorthosi.
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
I'd bet each one will be the focus of separated blocks down the line, showing up in some other plane. After all, Nicol Bolas has some kind of plan or use for them.
This block will most likely be about saving Zendikar and/or bringing Ulamog down, at some great price.
The better one: the plot will start shortly after Zendikar block, and will be more or less parallel with Return to Ravnica. The denizens of Zendikar will be fighting a losing battle. The all-planeswalker fight will be introduced in the second set (which could very well come after Tarkir block, time-wise). How many Multiverse years elapsed between Zendikar and Tarkir? Five, ten, twenty?
The worst: Anything is possible, because Sarkhan and his time shenanigans :-(
Less than five. Something like three to four years. Theros was three years after that, and Tarkir is at roughly the same time or soon after it.
As another note, I'm quite confident in the creative team for whats to come, yes many UR's were sub-par at best, but (a small) part of the reason the block formats are changing is to help out creative in creating a more cohesive and better paced storyline. So hopefully less filler, more actual focus on the plot.
I just can't wait to have more of Gideon.
Sarkhan's shenanigans didn't have any effect on Zendikar: the only plane altered by his time traveling is Tarkir : )
BEEEES!
Rabble Red
Modern
Burn
Infect
Please read this.
Here's the important part, relevant to this disucssion:
"5. The Eldrazi were still released.
After his sudden appearance, Sarkhan went on to play a tangential role in the events of Shards of Alara block and a crucial role in the events of Zendikar block, not to mention precipitating the change that erased his own homeworld from history. Everything he did while away from Tarkir, and everything that resulted from that, still happened."
The only changes in the timeline happened in Tarkir, nothing else is changed.
Original timeline : Bolas kills Ugin, Dragons disappear. Eldrazi are freed.
New and Actual timeline : Bolas strikes Ugin, considers him dead. Ugin is saved by Sarkhan, takes a long nap, awakens in modern days, dragons are still alive and kicking. Eldrazi are still freed.
History as a whole didn't change, only Tarkir's. The only new thing on the table is Ugin, who's alive, a fact Bolas doesn't know about.
They've been explicit that events as we've seen them have happened the way they've been presented up until this point.
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
Can you realistically imagine that all three titans are not getting new cards in BTZ? Especially from a viewpoint of average Joe who does not exactly follow the story? Yes, they have been just put into MM15, but still...
There is something on what you are suggesting (after all, they drop hints here and there that "the other two has not been seen".)
The problem is - Ugin does not want the Eldrazi killed, but not wandering the Blind Eternities either. He wants them imprisoned. (Funny thing: I just remember Baldur's Gate 2 and its datadisc Throne of Bhaal, with its Watcher's Keep and imprisoned demon prince Demogorgon. Pretty much the same thing here)
We would be talking about a scenario where Sorin, Ugin and Nahiri are hunting down all three Eldrazi and imprisoning them probably on separate planes, and meeting thus the Eldrazi again and again. Unless these blocks are well separated, this might be a problem. On the other hand, with the blocks now changing twice as fast, we MIGHT be indeed seeing the setup for another overarching mega-story.
Well, maybe you are really onto something here.
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
Yes. Yes, I can. I'm fairly sure that only Ulamog will get a card on this block.
Being a two-set block with plenty of planeswalkers wanting to show up helps filling the mythic slots, you know.
The Vorthos community will await the consequences of the Eldrazi Titans' deaths/sealing. We will keep the watch.
“The wind whispers, ‘come home,’ but I cannot.”
— Teferi
Well that sucks. I did not know that, and personally was hoping for a second chance at saving zendikar. But maybe we get to save whats left.
BEEEES!
Rabble Red
Modern
Burn
Infect
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
Err-ahhh, well. Its not that ugin Doesn't want them destroyed. He couldn't figure out a way to do so. So he lured them to Zendikar, forced them into a physical form, and using his breath and the help of the planeswalkers, entrapped them.
BEEEES!
Rabble Red
Modern
Burn
Infect
No. Read the articles properly, please. He thinks that they are inherently part of the Multiversal "ecology" - though he does not know exactly how - and that destroying them could have unpredicted consequences:
EDIT: Okay, serves me right for starting typing the post, then leaving for 20 minutes...thanks Hyze for the summary
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
"No fact escapes me. Why do you think you can?"
"Where will you run when I punish you with the very ground you flee on?"
"You will fully understand fear when you discover it is the final thing you put your faith in."
"Your pathetic ideas lie in shambles, Planeswalker. Where is your arrogant pride now?"
"Do the innocent pay for the crimes of the guilty? Of course they do. That's the fate of the weak."
"Power is wasted on the weak. They never keep it for long."
"The essence of every world, every spell and every thought is power. Nothing else matters, because nothing else exists."
—Nicol Bolas