The Magic staff have made it clear that generally speaking planeswalkers aren't killed often because they are important and iconic characters. But, writers these days seem to think that no one will believe there was any danger without characters actually dying. That being said, it's doubtful that he'll be killing any of the major characters.
If he were to kill any major characters, who? The obvious choice is Liliana, but since she still has 2 demons to kill, it's unlikely they will just end her plot before she accomplishes that, there's been too much build up. Jace is actively trying to find Garruk to help him, plus he's so iconic that's also unlikely. Chandra isn't even on his radar and she's part of a completely(maybe?) unrelated plot so no worries there. Same goes for Karn, Gideon, Nissa, Ajani, and essentially any planeswalker with more than one printing. Nobody liked Tibalt, so maybe him?
I think it's more likely that neigh nameless planeswalkers will be introduced just to be killed by him. I don't actually see this subplot with Garruk taking front and center role in a book so if they go that route the planeswalkers will likely recieve little to no background. (Though with the infuriating popularity of Game of Thrones I could see an article, probably written by the ever depressing Jenna Helland, that would introduce a planeswalker just to be characterized and then killed by Garruk at the end of it.) I hear that in the trailer of DotP he killed a 'masked' planeswalker. I'd love some more detail on that if anyone would provide it. I assume that it's not an actual character?
Well, here is what I think may be going on. We know that if anything gets in his way, including planeswalkers (which included the masked guy he mangled in the trailer), he will kill them. DotP 2015 trailer shows us that he has already kill at least one walker. So to coincide with his new card he would not have to kill any of our beloved walkers because we know that he has already killed one or more. His ability to destroy another walker just means he is willing to do so. ( Garruk, Apex Predator )
Going forward from here, M15, I believe that Jace will be the one to bring justice for Garruk. Jace will find a way to lift the veil. Garruk will then get yet another cardboard rendition, it will be mono G, and he will be flooded with G mana from all around him. His card will probably be pretty good. Jace has said a few times how whacky the mana on Zendikar is so I think that his redemption may come a year or so from now when a return to Zendikar might be possible. If the mana of Zendikar is crazy enough to render Ob Nixilis sparkless, then it should have the right properties for Jace to help out Garruk. Maybe I am just crazy
Am I a Zendikar fanboy? Yes. That being said, I am just speculating according to the thread and my opinion is just one possible outcome. Planeswalker lore is definitely some of my favorite.
Who's next?
Edit: Here is a video of Garruk killing some stuff
Nooooooo don't kill Tibalt I've been earnestly waiting for him to get a good card so I can play the dapper devil. Wait until after that to kill him pls
Honestly, I could see him killing Tamiyo, just because I don't know how else they'll ever fit her into a set with it making sense. Also, if they really just want to make no hope for saving Mirrodin, they could have Garruk kill Koth because....well, everyone else from the expedition is dead. Other than that, it's pretty much just going to be whatever walker avatars are shown in DotP. There are thousands of PW besides the guys we know, although the best way to use the feels is to kill someone we do know so it causes a bit more shock on us.
Nooooooo don't kill Tibalt I've been earnestly waiting for him to get a good card so I can play the dapper devil. Wait until after that to kill him pls
Honestly, I could see him killing Tamiyo, just because I don't know how else they'll ever fit her into a set with it making sense. Also, if they really just want to make no hope for saving Mirrodin, they could have Garruk kill Koth because....well, everyone else from the expedition is dead. Other than that, it's pretty much just going to be whatever walker avatars are shown in DotP. There are thousands of PW besides the guys we know, although the best way to use the feels is to kill someone we do know so it causes a bit more shock on us.
While agree that killing someone we know will be more shocking, I disagree with it being the "best way to use the feels". It's true if a writer is able to evoke an emotional response from their readers, then they are doing a good job showing character emotion and painting a clear picture with vivd words, but sadness is not the only way to go. Laughing outloud in joy or feeling happy for the success of a character are emotional responses too. It's not required to have characters die in order to have a really good and emotional story, nor is it required in action plots as many writers these days seem to think. But if I talk any further on that topic, I'll derail my own thread.
I'm doubtful that he'll get a new card because he wasn't all that popular because his card was so bad. They are usually pretty good about keeping plnaeswalkers ability somewhat near their personalities so he would have to drastically change because his first card was spot on, just terrible. As for Tamiyo, the nature of her search allows her to be on any plane. She is just trying to find places where the moon affects the world so she could show up anywhere, however brief until she learns the moon does nothing on that plane and walks away. Also as far as the expedition on Mirrodin goes, I'm betting Melira got a spark and we'll see her get a planeswalker card down the line.
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I believe that Jace will be the one to bring justice for Garruk
I think you're right. Considering Jace's previous interactions with Garruk it would be a waste of set up time if they didn't at least have Jace have a hand in the resolution of that thread.
While agree that killing someone we know will be more shocking, I disagree with it being the "best way to use the feels". It's true if a writer is able to evoke an emotional response from their readers, then they are doing a good job showing character emotion and painting a clear picture with vivd words, but sadness is not the only way to go. Laughing outloud in joy or feeling happy for the success of a character are emotional responses too. It's not required to have characters die in order to have a really good and emotional story, nor is it required in action plots as many writers these days seem to think. But if I talk any further on that topic, I'll derail my own thread.
I didn't quite know how to say what I was thinking, I wasn't saying it's like the best way to use the feels but I couldn't think of how to say what I'm saying. Like.....the idea is that Garruk is hunting planeswalkers, but if it's a bunch of no-names that they just create out of the blue, nobody is going to care. Having ONE character that we at least know existed before DotP 2015 die, whether it's a planeswalker or like....Ob Nixilis, it doesn't matter what their title is, but it would evoke more emotion than seeing DotP 2014 Avatar #5 die after seeing DotP 2013 Avatar #7 die. I don't have any interest in those pictures because they don't mean anything to me, but seeing someone like Tamiyo, Tibalt, Ashiok, Domri, someone who they don't need for storylines really but exists and has been known die would evoke more of a sense of "Wow, if these PWs that got full-blown cards died, Garruk must be dangerous", and it could build up Garruk as the antagonist of the game a bit more. I mean, nobody is upset that Daxos died, or that Anax is gravely wounded, but some people were upset at Xenagos dying when it first came out, and everyone is still upset about Elspeth. I would say 1, MAYBE 2 of our known planeswalkers from the 20 years of Magic are going to die. I still have my money on Tamiyo if it happens.
While agree that killing someone we know will be more shocking, I disagree with it being the "best way to use the feels". It's true if a writer is able to evoke an emotional response from their readers, then they are doing a good job showing character emotion and painting a clear picture with vivd words, but sadness is not the only way to go. Laughing outloud in joy or feeling happy for the success of a character are emotional responses too. It's not required to have characters die in order to have a really good and emotional story, nor is it required in action plots as many writers these days seem to think. But if I talk any further on that topic, I'll derail my own thread.
I didn't quite know how to say what I was thinking, I wasn't saying it's like the best way to use the feels but I couldn't think of how to say what I'm saying. Like.....the idea is that Garruk is hunting planeswalkers, but if it's a bunch of no-names that they just create out of the blue, nobody is going to care. Having ONE character that we at least know existed before DotP 2015 die, whether it's a planeswalker or like....Ob Nixilis, it doesn't matter what their title is, but it would evoke more emotion than seeing DotP 2014 Avatar #5 die after seeing DotP 2013 Avatar #7 die. I don't have any interest in those pictures because they don't mean anything to me, but seeing someone like Tamiyo, Tibalt, Ashiok, Domri, someone who they don't need for storylines really but exists and has been known die would evoke more of a sense of "Wow, if these PWs that got full-blown cards died, Garruk must be dangerous", and it could build up Garruk as the antagonist of the game a bit more. I mean, nobody is upset that Daxos died, or that Anax is gravely wounded, but some people were upset at Xenagos dying when it first came out, and everyone is still upset about Elspeth. I would say 1, MAYBE 2 of our known planeswalkers from the 20 years of Magic are going to die. I still have my money on Tamiyo if it happens.
Oh okay. I'm so burnt out on talking with people who make statemens like that that it's become hard for me to tell if they actually believe that or not and my only way of not getting depressed by that thought is to be fervant in my responses.
No I agree completely that it will have a greater effect if they have him kill someone who has a card form. I think that doing that simply for the sake of building him up as being THAT dangerous would be.... a waste of what they could do with the planeswalkers. It's interesting, not surprising that people are upset at Xenagos. I mean it was pretty early on in story articles that Xenagos was revealed to be a villian and so most knew then that he'd die. As for Elspeth, people(myself included) are gonna be upset about that until the continue her plot which won't be for years. My reasons are different than most I'm sure.
Anyway, if they do it, I hope it's not Tamiyo. I thought she was cool and I like the idea of her walking the planes in search of more knowledge of the moons. I still don't think they'll actually kill established walkers for this plotline unless they do decide to release a book for it.
... but it would evoke more emotion than seeing DotP 2014 Avatar #5 die after seeing DotP 2013 Avatar #7 die. I don't have any interest in those pictures because they don't mean anything to me...
It was a little surprising to me as that masked avatar was the one that I used when I played DotP 2014. In that respect it was a little like Garruk came after me, and won. That said, that experience still wasn't that resonant, and I agree with what you mention later. One of the known one-offs that we have seen that haven't been intrinsically pinned to a particular plotline would be a better, more resonant choice than someone who was literally faceless.
One of the known one-offs that we have seen that haven't been intrinsically pinned to a particular plotline would be a better, more resonant choice than someone who was literally faceless.
Well.....Ashiok is literally faceless too but they could kill him too (I couldn't resist)
One of the known one-offs that we have seen that haven't been intrinsically pinned to a particular plotline would be a better, more resonant choice than someone who was literally faceless.
Well.....Ashiok is literally faceless too but they could kill him too (I couldn't resist)
... but it would evoke more emotion than seeing DotP 2014 Avatar #5 die after seeing DotP 2013 Avatar #7 die. I don't have any interest in those pictures because they don't mean anything to me...
It was a little surprising to me as that masked avatar was the one that I used when I played DotP 2014. In that respect it was a little like Garruk came after me, and won. That said, that experience still wasn't that resonant, and I agree with what you mention later. One of the known one-offs that we have seen that haven't been intrinsically pinned to a particular plotline would be a better, more resonant choice than someone who was literally faceless.
Don't worry! He didn't really kill me! lol jk Had to. Right, I liked that that used my avatar/persona to swiftly convey Garruk was willing and able to do it, (I wish the persona would get a UR memoir send-off or something, I'd like to know just who in the multiverse THAT was) but I think a more well-known Planeswalker should get the proverbial axe. And the literal one.
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but I think a more well-known Planeswalker should get the proverbial axe. And the literal one.
Just out of curiousity, why do you say that? You actually think they SHOULD be killing off more characters?
I think so, to a degree, but I was mostly meaning that I agree someone likeable should get murdered by Garruk to add some more gravity to the situation. They should let Garruk run off like this, then add a chunk more depth to someone like Domri, Ral, Tibalt, Tezzeret, etc. We don't want some lame new walker for the purpose of dying, but we don't want to A. Kill off a Lorwyn Five, or B. Cause an imbalance in the color pie. Personally I would love if he leveled the playing field between Nicol Bolas and his enemies. While Nicol Bolas would be an awesome prey, the fight would be balanced at BEST between those 2.
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but I think a more well-known Planeswalker should get the proverbial axe. And the literal one.
Just out of curiousity, why do you say that? You actually think they SHOULD be killing off more characters?
I think so, to a degree, but I was mostly meaning that I agree someone likeable should get murdered by Garruk to add some more gravity to the situation. They should let Garruk run off like this, then add a chunk more depth to someone like Domri, Ral, Tibalt, Tezzeret, etc. We don't want some lame new walker for the purpose of dying, but we don't want to A. Kill off a Lorwyn Five, or B. Cause an imbalance in the color pie. Personally I would love if he leveled the playing field between Nicol Bolas and his enemies. While Nicol Bolas would be an awesome prey, the fight would be balanced at BEST between those 2.
Ah, gotcha. Thanks for the answer. Can't say I agree, but I do understand what you're saying. I mean I do agree that Garruk actually killing one of the other printed walkers would in fact add more gravity to the situation, I don't feel that's the only way to do it.
Yea, there is no way Garruk will be taking on Nicol Bolas. He is currently THE villain for the current Magic Universe. The conflict that leads to the walkers facing him down won't happen for quite some time because it requires a lot more set up than they have currently done.
Why is Garruk trying to kill planeswalkers? I know his grievance is with Liliana, but why's he going after the others?
Not 100% sure. Might be explained in the DotP 2015 trailer, but I think it's just that the veil has corrupted his green magic and as such is driving him insane. So he's on the trail of Liliana but he is having trouble finding her but not other planeswalkers and and anyone that gets in his way is essentially dead. Something along those lines, but I could be wrong.
Why is Garruk trying to kill planeswalkers? I know his grievance is with Liliana, but why's he going after the others?
Well, after hunting Liliana (and failing to catch her), Garruk, in his half-mad, black-cursed state has found that hunting planeswalkers is even more fun than hunting the strongest beasts of the Multiverse. Whether he'll still think like that after he's cured or not is up to debate, although likely he won't think OH BOY I'M CURED THANKS JACE NOW I GONNA KILL YOU! So since he's sort of crazy, he's picturing other planeswalkers as I guess.....sub-Garruk, so they are fine to be killed because it's fun for him.
So it's like hunting dorks weaker than a planeswalker has become so mundane that Garruk couldn't feel the thrill of the hunt anymore unless his prey has a spark?
How about speculatation on whether the Garruk story arc ties into Tarkir?
It just seems a waste me for it not to since a multi-color walker in a core set is a rarity.
Further speculation: Garruk attempts to kill Nicol Bolas, with the help of Sarkhan Vol. (Assuming Garruk can even be reasoned with to form a jagged alliance or sorts?) Sarkhan is wanting to break his servitude and bring dragons back to Tarkir, so Bolas is his obstacle. This would get Jace involved with the Tarkir story too if he follows Garruk. I think that to this point Nicol Bolas is such a powerful walker that you almost need something like Garruk, Apex Predator to harm him in some way/advance the Sarkhan servitude story.
According to Sorin, Garruk killed 2 planeswalkers on Innistrad, which also according to Sorin, is not a popular planeswalker destination. We know Sorin, Lili, Tibalt, and Tamiyo have been to Innistrad recently, and that Sorin and Lili are still alive, so things aren't looking good for our favorite Moonlady and Dapper Devil.
Personally, I think Tibalt gets a freebie here, but Tammy won't on the count of MaRo having said that she did so-so in market research.
They could kill two birds with one stone by having Garruk kill Liliana. She hasn't finished taking care of her deal with the demons, leaving speculation as to what would happen if she was to die. Maybe she get's killed by Garruk, and the demons resurrect her as a servant? That way he gets to kill a well know walker, they get the shock value of it, and the shock value of bringer her back.
There's also the fact that Nissa is showing up again. Why not get rid of a green walker that is IMO nowhere near as good as mono G Garruk is? Then again there's also the fact that they are fleshing out the color schemes by making guild colored walkers, so maybe Garruk doesn't get cured and becomes the go to Golgari walker, leaving Nissa room to become the new go to mono G walker.
Personally, I think Tibalt gets a freebie here, but Tammy won't on the count of MaRo having said that she did so-so in market research.
And Doug pretty soundly contradicted him with his market research quote.
Call me crazy, but I think we're more likely looking at a bunch of nameless mooks that got the axe rather than any scenario in which we should expect ACTUAL characters to die.
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If he were to kill any major characters, who? The obvious choice is Liliana, but since she still has 2 demons to kill, it's unlikely they will just end her plot before she accomplishes that, there's been too much build up. Jace is actively trying to find Garruk to help him, plus he's so iconic that's also unlikely. Chandra isn't even on his radar and she's part of a completely(maybe?) unrelated plot so no worries there. Same goes for Karn, Gideon, Nissa, Ajani, and essentially any planeswalker with more than one printing. Nobody liked Tibalt, so maybe him?
I think it's more likely that neigh nameless planeswalkers will be introduced just to be killed by him. I don't actually see this subplot with Garruk taking front and center role in a book so if they go that route the planeswalkers will likely recieve little to no background. (Though with the infuriating popularity of Game of Thrones I could see an article, probably written by the ever depressing Jenna Helland, that would introduce a planeswalker just to be characterized and then killed by Garruk at the end of it.) I hear that in the trailer of DotP he killed a 'masked' planeswalker. I'd love some more detail on that if anyone would provide it. I assume that it's not an actual character?
So what do people think?
Going forward from here, M15, I believe that Jace will be the one to bring justice for Garruk. Jace will find a way to lift the veil. Garruk will then get yet another cardboard rendition, it will be mono G, and he will be flooded with G mana from all around him. His card will probably be pretty good. Jace has said a few times how whacky the mana on Zendikar is so I think that his redemption may come a year or so from now when a return to Zendikar might be possible. If the mana of Zendikar is crazy enough to render Ob Nixilis sparkless, then it should have the right properties for Jace to help out Garruk. Maybe I am just crazy
Am I a Zendikar fanboy? Yes. That being said, I am just speculating according to the thread and my opinion is just one possible outcome. Planeswalker lore is definitely some of my favorite.
Who's next?
Edit: Here is a video of Garruk killing some stuff
Honestly, I could see him killing Tamiyo, just because I don't know how else they'll ever fit her into a set with it making sense. Also, if they really just want to make no hope for saving Mirrodin, they could have Garruk kill Koth because....well, everyone else from the expedition is dead. Other than that, it's pretty much just going to be whatever walker avatars are shown in DotP. There are thousands of PW besides the guys we know, although the best way to use the feels is to kill someone we do know so it causes a bit more shock on us.
While agree that killing someone we know will be more shocking, I disagree with it being the "best way to use the feels". It's true if a writer is able to evoke an emotional response from their readers, then they are doing a good job showing character emotion and painting a clear picture with vivd words, but sadness is not the only way to go. Laughing outloud in joy or feeling happy for the success of a character are emotional responses too. It's not required to have characters die in order to have a really good and emotional story, nor is it required in action plots as many writers these days seem to think. But if I talk any further on that topic, I'll derail my own thread.
I'm doubtful that he'll get a new card because he wasn't all that popular because his card was so bad. They are usually pretty good about keeping plnaeswalkers ability somewhat near their personalities so he would have to drastically change because his first card was spot on, just terrible. As for Tamiyo, the nature of her search allows her to be on any plane. She is just trying to find places where the moon affects the world so she could show up anywhere, however brief until she learns the moon does nothing on that plane and walks away. Also as far as the expedition on Mirrodin goes, I'm betting Melira got a spark and we'll see her get a planeswalker card down the line.
I think you're right. Considering Jace's previous interactions with Garruk it would be a waste of set up time if they didn't at least have Jace have a hand in the resolution of that thread.
I didn't quite know how to say what I was thinking, I wasn't saying it's like the best way to use the feels but I couldn't think of how to say what I'm saying. Like.....the idea is that Garruk is hunting planeswalkers, but if it's a bunch of no-names that they just create out of the blue, nobody is going to care. Having ONE character that we at least know existed before DotP 2015 die, whether it's a planeswalker or like....Ob Nixilis, it doesn't matter what their title is, but it would evoke more emotion than seeing DotP 2014 Avatar #5 die after seeing DotP 2013 Avatar #7 die. I don't have any interest in those pictures because they don't mean anything to me, but seeing someone like Tamiyo, Tibalt, Ashiok, Domri, someone who they don't need for storylines really but exists and has been known die would evoke more of a sense of "Wow, if these PWs that got full-blown cards died, Garruk must be dangerous", and it could build up Garruk as the antagonist of the game a bit more. I mean, nobody is upset that Daxos died, or that Anax is gravely wounded, but some people were upset at Xenagos dying when it first came out, and everyone is still upset about Elspeth. I would say 1, MAYBE 2 of our known planeswalkers from the 20 years of Magic are going to die. I still have my money on Tamiyo if it happens.
Oh okay. I'm so burnt out on talking with people who make statemens like that that it's become hard for me to tell if they actually believe that or not and my only way of not getting depressed by that thought is to be fervant in my responses.
No I agree completely that it will have a greater effect if they have him kill someone who has a card form. I think that doing that simply for the sake of building him up as being THAT dangerous would be.... a waste of what they could do with the planeswalkers. It's interesting, not surprising that people are upset at Xenagos. I mean it was pretty early on in story articles that Xenagos was revealed to be a villian and so most knew then that he'd die. As for Elspeth, people(myself included) are gonna be upset about that until the continue her plot which won't be for years. My reasons are different than most I'm sure.
Anyway, if they do it, I hope it's not Tamiyo. I thought she was cool and I like the idea of her walking the planes in search of more knowledge of the moons. I still don't think they'll actually kill established walkers for this plotline unless they do decide to release a book for it.
It was a little surprising to me as that masked avatar was the one that I used when I played DotP 2014. In that respect it was a little like Garruk came after me, and won. That said, that experience still wasn't that resonant, and I agree with what you mention later. One of the known one-offs that we have seen that haven't been intrinsically pinned to a particular plotline would be a better, more resonant choice than someone who was literally faceless.
Well.....Ashiok is literally faceless too but they could kill him too (I couldn't resist)
I chuckled at that one. Well played sir.
Just out of curiousity, why do you say that? You actually think they SHOULD be killing off more characters?
Ah, gotcha. Thanks for the answer. Can't say I agree, but I do understand what you're saying. I mean I do agree that Garruk actually killing one of the other printed walkers would in fact add more gravity to the situation, I don't feel that's the only way to do it.
Yea, there is no way Garruk will be taking on Nicol Bolas. He is currently THE villain for the current Magic Universe. The conflict that leads to the walkers facing him down won't happen for quite some time because it requires a lot more set up than they have currently done.
Not 100% sure. Might be explained in the DotP 2015 trailer, but I think it's just that the veil has corrupted his green magic and as such is driving him insane. So he's on the trail of Liliana but he is having trouble finding her but not other planeswalkers and and anyone that gets in his way is essentially dead. Something along those lines, but I could be wrong.
Well, after hunting Liliana (and failing to catch her), Garruk, in his half-mad, black-cursed state has found that hunting planeswalkers is even more fun than hunting the strongest beasts of the Multiverse. Whether he'll still think like that after he's cured or not is up to debate, although likely he won't think OH BOY I'M CURED THANKS JACE NOW I GONNA KILL YOU! So since he's sort of crazy, he's picturing other planeswalkers as I guess.....sub-Garruk, so they are fine to be killed because it's fun for him.
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It just seems a waste me for it not to since a multi-color walker in a core set is a rarity.
Further speculation: Garruk attempts to kill Nicol Bolas, with the help of Sarkhan Vol. (Assuming Garruk can even be reasoned with to form a jagged alliance or sorts?) Sarkhan is wanting to break his servitude and bring dragons back to Tarkir, so Bolas is his obstacle. This would get Jace involved with the Tarkir story too if he follows Garruk. I think that to this point Nicol Bolas is such a powerful walker that you almost need something like Garruk, Apex Predator to harm him in some way/advance the Sarkhan servitude story.
I know it goes more in-depth that what we know otherwise, but my computer is dead at the moment.
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Personally, I think Tibalt gets a freebie here, but Tammy won't on the count of MaRo having said that she did so-so in market research.
There's also the fact that Nissa is showing up again. Why not get rid of a green walker that is IMO nowhere near as good as mono G Garruk is? Then again there's also the fact that they are fleshing out the color schemes by making guild colored walkers, so maybe Garruk doesn't get cured and becomes the go to Golgari walker, leaving Nissa room to become the new go to mono G walker.
And Doug pretty soundly contradicted him with his market research quote.
Call me crazy, but I think we're more likely looking at a bunch of nameless mooks that got the axe rather than any scenario in which we should expect ACTUAL characters to die.