M15 was just announced, and Garruk's looking a little under the weather.
What do you all think?
Has he finally gone of the deep-end?
Gold Garruk? Black?
No double-faced cards. Probably extra room for more dual lands as Ravnica rotates out.
Whatever color(s?) Garruk ends up being in M15, what interests me is the fact that the core set gets to acknowledge the advancement of plot. Garruk's been corrupted for years but this is the first time outside of an expert expansion it's being acknowledged in the card game proper.
Logically, Duels of the Planeswalkers 2015 will have a Garruk-central plot as well.
Would it be possible for Garruk to the be the mono-black walker and we get a new Mono-green walker (we've never had a walker introduced in a coreset, I think) or a reprint of Nissa (the only other mono-green walker)?
This actually makes me wonder if they're finally introducing multicolor to the core set. A G/B Garruk would make a lot of sense flavorfully (Avacyn could do a similar thing to him that she did to the Wolfir, trapping the curse inside him but making him stronger).
Would it be possible for Garruk to the be the mono-black walker and we get a new Mono-green walker (we've never had a walker introduced in a coreset, I think) or a reprint of Nissa (the only other mono-green walker)?
Garruk is still green to his core; he's not going to be a monoblack walker. He's corrupted as Garruk Relentless, but his core values and personality are still green.
Also, I think it's safe to say this thread belongs in speculation, so I'm going to relocate it.
I'd be very surprised if Garruk didn't return as Garruk, Caller of Beasts in M15, given that -- recently at least -- every planeswalker has been reprinted at least once in the following Core Set to its debut. Garruk and Chandra will very likely return in their current forms.
Jace will be the most overdue for a new version, after three appearances in his current form. Ajani and Liliana are also more likely, having already been reprinted once.
Jace is overdue for never being reprinted again. He is the Living Guildpact. There will be problems if he leaves Ravnica. Why must Wizards ignore this!?!
Also, I'd say that we are more likely to get Gideon back than Ajani, since Ajani is getting a new version in JOU.
Would it be possible for Garruk to the be the mono-black walker and we get a new Mono-green walker (we've never had a walker introduced in a coreset, I think) or a reprint of Nissa (the only other mono-green walker)?
Nissa is never getting reprinted. She has the second or third worst planeswalker card in existence, only works in one specific deck, and core sets usually don't devote much space to Elf Tribal.
The picture is indeed leaning towards black, with the purple hues, the black veins, the allure. But I honestly doubt they would introduce such a tweak to an iconis PW (turned to black or GB) in a core set.
Nissa is never getting reprinted. She has the second or third worst planeswalker card in existence, only works in one specific deck, and core sets usually don't devote much space to Elf Tribal.
I'd like to see a new Nissa; as you say, her first card is very narrow, so she could use an update. Unfortunately her shtick is very much "elves", so I don't see how she could expand much beyond that.
Green planeswalker cards are mechanically limited by green's identity. Garruk already has "giant creatures" locked down as his niche, just like Nissa has "elf tribal". There's not a whole lot of design space left. "Lands matter" as a 'walker? Something with Garruk Wildspeaker's +1, a - Sylvan Scrying effect, and an ultimate with a Nature's Revolt effect?
Except that's not how the Veil's curse works; he's not enslaved to her, he's just tainted. His body is corrupted and his summoning is twisted.
Eh. Either way, that'll learn him.
When someone has to kill a blood-thirsty beast in absolute self-defense, don't respond by trying to kill them in kind. Then, when they absolutely best you and lay a curse of darkness upon you that you want removed, don't go after them threatening to kill them mercilessly unless they do what you want.
Garruk reminds me of every violent bully I ever knew. Liliana was totally in the right to defend herself. Glad he's still cursed.
I'd like to see a new Nissa; as you say, her first card is very narrow, so she could use an update. Unfortunately her shtick is very much "elves", so I don't see how she could expand much beyond that.
Green planeswalker cards are mechanically limited by green's identity. Garruk already has "giant creatures" locked down as his niche, just like Nissa has "elf tribal". There's not a whole lot of design space left. "Lands matter" as a 'walker? Something with Garruk Wildspeaker's +1, a - Sylvan Scrying effect, and an ultimate with a Nature's Revolt effect?
There's a fair number of Green mechanics that haven't shown up on any Planeswalker cards yet.
I'd like to see a new Nissa; as you say, her first card is very narrow, so she could use an update. Unfortunately her shtick is very much "elves", so I don't see how she could expand much beyond that.
Green planeswalker cards are mechanically limited by green's identity. Garruk already has "giant creatures" locked down as his niche, just like Nissa has "elf tribal". There's not a whole lot of design space left. "Lands matter" as a 'walker? Something with Garruk Wildspeaker's +1, a - Sylvan Scrying effect, and an ultimate with a Nature's Revolt effect?
I would say there could be a Planeswalker that was all about small creatures. A Doubling Season/Saproling Walker, if you will.
Would Nissa stay mono-green, if she got a new card? She's hellbent on dragging Sorin back to Zendikar and has in the past dabbled in black magic.
(not trying to speculate with CCC, just wondering if that bit of storyline is accurate)
Every core set since Llorywn has included a mono-colored walker for each color (one seeing five plus a multi-colored). So if Garruk is not mono-green and we take the previous statement as likely to repeat, would we be introduced to a new mono-green walker? If not the only non-Garruk mono-green reprint would be Nissa.
I don't dismiss the possibility that Wizards could change it up and not print a cycle of five, but working under that assumption makes asking the follow up of, new walker or Nissa reprint kind of moot.
Would Nissa stay mono-green, if she got a new card? She's hellbent on dragging Sorin back to Zendikar and has in the past dabbled in black magic.
I could see B G Nissa on her next appearance, but I don't think that would happen in the Core. I still don't see them doing multicolor cards in core outside of one-off things like Bolas.
If the core sets (or their corresponding Duels) are being tied into the story going forward, this has interesting implications.
We've seen the past couple of cores have a marque 'walker (Bolas, Chandra, and now Garruk) used for marketing and whatnot. Perhaps now cores (and the corresponding Duels) are going to advance 'walker stories that can't be told within the confines of a normal block. It's a nice way for us to have things happen without so much of it being "off-screen". We can have Garruk's loose ends tied up without him showing up on our next block going "Oh hai, I gots cured or something, you don't need to know the details, and now I'm all better Imma make a beast now!".
Thank God for that.
I was not looking forward to having to deal with Garruk not showing up again until a return to DFCs or some other boatload of BS.
Loose-end walkers in the core set is everything I want out of this game.
Given how Innistrad "ended" with him, and given WotC's avoid-at-all-costs approach to continuing the story for the standard 'walkers, the odds of a Garruk card being black, mono/hybrid/gold/split/other, are extremely slim. They could make a card that expresses aspects of green that are closer to black, i.e. salvaging, intimidation, deathtouch, etc., and express him as being outright savage, but that's the most I see as far as the core set is concerned.
I'd like to see a new Nissa; as you say, her first card is very narrow, so she could use an update. Unfortunately her shtick is very much "elves", so I don't see how she could expand much beyond that.
Green planeswalker cards are mechanically limited by green's identity. Garruk already has "giant creatures" locked down as his niche, just like Nissa has "elf tribal". There's not a whole lot of design space left. "Lands matter" as a 'walker? Something with Garruk Wildspeaker's +1, a - Sylvan Scrying effect, and an ultimate with a Nature's Revolt effect?
Oh, how I do love our narrow-minded player base.
ONE: What you do is make a card that's better with Elves. I.e. "Put a +1/+1 counter on target creature. If it's an Elf, put two +1/+1 counters on it instead." Or a single Elf-based ability. Or simply summon Elf tokens; nobody calls out Garruk as having a myopic design for typically being based around Beast tokens.
And two: Why is it so hard to imagine?
GG Planeswalker /+3:\ Target creature you control fights target creature you don’t control. \-5:/ Target creature fights another target creature. \-10:/ ~ deals 7 damage to each creature target opponent controls. ||2||
2GG Planeswalker /+2:\ Target creature gets +2/+2 until end of turn. |0:| Until end of turn, ~ is a creature with power and toughness each equal to the number of loyalty counters on it. Prevent all damage that would be dealt to ~ this turn. When ~ deals combat damage to a player this turn, each creature you control becomes monstrous. |0:| Destroy target noncreature permanent. Activate this ability only if ~ is monstrous. ||4||
3GGGG Planeswalker /+1:\ Untap up to X target lands, where X is your devotion to green. \-4:/ Put X 2/2 green creature tokens onto the battlefield, where X is your devotion to green. \-8:/ Draw up to X cards, where X is your devotion to green. ||5||
3G Planeswalker /+1:\ Put a 3/3 creature token onto the battlefield. \-1:/ Until end of turn, target creature’s controller may assign its combat damage as though it weren’t blocked. \-6:/ Put a 3/3 creature token onto the battlefield for each creature target player controls. ||1||
1GG Planeswalker /+2:\ Put a +1/+1 counter on target creature. \-X:/ You gain X life. \-9:/ Target creature you control deals damage equal to its power to target player. That creature gets –X/-X until end of turn, where X is that player’s life total. ||3||
3GG Planeswalker /+1:\ Creatures you control gain trample until end of turn. /+1:\ Creatures you control gain haste until end of turn. \-1:/ Creatures you control gain deathtouch until end of turn. \-6:/ Put a 5/5 green Wurm creature token with trample onto the battlefield for each creature card in target player’s graveyard. ||3||
2GG Planeswalker /+2:\ Until your next turn, whenever an opponent casts a spell, creatures you control get +1/+1 until end of turn. |-1:| Until your next turn, whenever a creature enters the battlefield under an opponent’s control, put a 3/3 green Beast creature token onto the battlefield. \-9:/ You may put any number of creature cards in your hand onto the battlefield. ||4||
3GG Planeswalker – Nissa /+2:\ You may put an Elf permanent card from your hand onto the battlefield. \-1:/ Draw a card. You may play an additional land card this turn. \-6:/ Choose one – Search your library for up to two creature and/or land cards, reveal them, put them into your hand, then shuffle your library; or put up to two creature and/or land cards from your hand onto the battlefield. ||2||
1GG Planeswalker As ~ enters the battlefield, choose a creature type. /+1:\ Creatures you control get +1/+1 until end of turn. |0:| Put a loyalty counter on ~ for each creature of the chosen type target player controls. \-X:/ Put an X/X green creature token of the chosen type onto the battlefield. ||3||
3G Planeswalker /+1:\ Put a 1/2 green Spider creature token with reach onto the battlefield. \-2:/ Destroy target creature with flying. ~ deals damage to its controller equal to the number of Spiders you control. \-6:/ Destroy up to three target noncreature permanents. ||4||
There's more I could suggest obviously, and I'm sure there are plenty of balance issues, but as far as "design space" is concerned, in the short-term, there is NOTHING to be concerned with. NOTHING.
About any "subpar" mechanics or cards: Context is king.
If I make a templating or grammar error, let me know.
The franchise MtG most resembles is Battlestar Galactica. Why? Its players exist in, at most, a dozen different models at any given point in time, with perhaps up to 3% variation, 5% if you're lucky.
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What do you all think?
Has he finally gone of the deep-end?
Gold Garruk? Black?
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I write flavor articles for RoxieCards.
I play and judge at Giga Bites Cafein Marietta, Georgia.
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Whatever color(s?) Garruk ends up being in M15, what interests me is the fact that the core set gets to acknowledge the advancement of plot. Garruk's been corrupted for years but this is the first time outside of an expert expansion it's being acknowledged in the card game proper.
Logically, Duels of the Planeswalkers 2015 will have a Garruk-central plot as well.
R Citizen Cane (Feldon of the Third Path)
How To Keep Your FOIL Cards From Curling: http://youtu.be/QTmubrS8VnI
The Best Deck Boxes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEwgLph_Pjk
The Best Binders: http://youtu.be/H5IauASYWjk
Except that's not how the Veil's curse works; he's not enslaved to her, he's just tainted. His body is corrupted and his summoning is twisted.
@_kaburi_ on Twitter
Special thanks to Serrot_29 for Catbug'mrakul!
Cubetutor Link
Garruk is still green to his core; he's not going to be a monoblack walker. He's corrupted as Garruk Relentless, but his core values and personality are still green.
Also, I think it's safe to say this thread belongs in speculation, so I'm going to relocate it.
@_kaburi_ on Twitter
Special thanks to Serrot_29 for Catbug'mrakul!
Jace is overdue for never being reprinted again. He is the Living Guildpact. There will be problems if he leaves Ravnica. Why must Wizards ignore this!?!
Also, I'd say that we are more likely to get Gideon back than Ajani, since Ajani is getting a new version in JOU.
Nissa is never getting reprinted. She has the second or third worst planeswalker card in existence, only works in one specific deck, and core sets usually don't devote much space to Elf Tribal.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
I'd like to see a new Nissa; as you say, her first card is very narrow, so she could use an update. Unfortunately her shtick is very much "elves", so I don't see how she could expand much beyond that.
Green planeswalker cards are mechanically limited by green's identity. Garruk already has "giant creatures" locked down as his niche, just like Nissa has "elf tribal". There's not a whole lot of design space left. "Lands matter" as a 'walker? Something with Garruk Wildspeaker's +1, a - Sylvan Scrying effect, and an ultimate with a Nature's Revolt effect?
@_kaburi_ on Twitter
Special thanks to Serrot_29 for Catbug'mrakul!
Eh. Either way, that'll learn him.
When someone has to kill a blood-thirsty beast in absolute self-defense, don't respond by trying to kill them in kind. Then, when they absolutely best you and lay a curse of darkness upon you that you want removed, don't go after them threatening to kill them mercilessly unless they do what you want.
Garruk reminds me of every violent bully I ever knew. Liliana was totally in the right to defend herself. Glad he's still cursed.
How To Keep Your FOIL Cards From Curling: http://youtu.be/QTmubrS8VnI
The Best Deck Boxes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEwgLph_Pjk
The Best Binders: http://youtu.be/H5IauASYWjk
There's a fair number of Green mechanics that haven't shown up on any Planeswalker cards yet.
Good + abilities:
Lay of the Land
Sprout
Adding mana to your mana pool (either G or of any color)
Divergent Growth
Animate Land
Commune with Nature
Dwell on the Past
Good - abilities:
Rampant Growth
Sylvan Scrying
Giant Growth
Naturalize
Bramblecrush
Prey Upon
Glimpse of Nature
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I would say there could be a Planeswalker that was all about small creatures. A Doubling Season/Saproling Walker, if you will.
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+1 Sprout
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-Y Primal Vigor emblem?
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Pretty much exactly.
Maybe as a Treefolk Mage, ala Nemata, Grove Guardian? Flavor-wise, I'd like that a lot, and it'd make sense as a good non-human Planeswalker.
The real problem for Mono-green isn't that Green doesn't have much design space for walkers left, it's that R/G keeps eating up that space.
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[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
Seriously. Domri has Fighting and drawing creatures from the top, and Xenagos has Genesis Wave and Gaea's Cradle.
I'm still not sure why we got these in back to back blocks (and still no Selesnya walker), but whatever.
Oh, Kiora just used up Explore and the closest thing we'll probably ever see to Fog too.
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(not trying to speculate with CCC, just wondering if that bit of storyline is accurate)
Every core set since Llorywn has included a mono-colored walker for each color (one seeing five plus a multi-colored). So if Garruk is not mono-green and we take the previous statement as likely to repeat, would we be introduced to a new mono-green walker? If not the only non-Garruk mono-green reprint would be Nissa.
I don't dismiss the possibility that Wizards could change it up and not print a cycle of five, but working under that assumption makes asking the follow up of, new walker or Nissa reprint kind of moot.
My fault. I knew the minute I hit submit I had opened the door.
I could see B G Nissa on her next appearance, but I don't think that would happen in the Core. I still don't see them doing multicolor cards in core outside of one-off things like Bolas.
@_kaburi_ on Twitter
Special thanks to Serrot_29 for Catbug'mrakul!
Last we saw of Garruk, he was looking to find the source of the Cursemute, and had been abducted by Odric and the Riders of Gavony who didn't know what to do with him.
If the core sets (or their corresponding Duels) are being tied into the story going forward, this has interesting implications.
Level 1 Judge
I write flavor articles for RoxieCards.
I play and judge at Giga Bites Cafein Marietta, Georgia.
We've seen the past couple of cores have a marque 'walker (Bolas, Chandra, and now Garruk) used for marketing and whatnot. Perhaps now cores (and the corresponding Duels) are going to advance 'walker stories that can't be told within the confines of a normal block. It's a nice way for us to have things happen without so much of it being "off-screen". We can have Garruk's loose ends tied up without him showing up on our next block going "Oh hai, I gots cured or something, you don't need to know the details, and now I'm all better Imma make a beast now!".
@_kaburi_ on Twitter
Special thanks to Serrot_29 for Catbug'mrakul!
I was not looking forward to having to deal with Garruk not showing up again until a return to DFCs or some other boatload of BS.
Loose-end walkers in the core set is everything I want out of this game.
Level 1 Judge
I write flavor articles for RoxieCards.
I play and judge at Giga Bites Cafein Marietta, Georgia.
That's really more white's domain. Hence; Elspeth.
Oh, how I do love our narrow-minded player base.
ONE: What you do is make a card that's better with Elves. I.e. "Put a +1/+1 counter on target creature. If it's an Elf, put two +1/+1 counters on it instead." Or a single Elf-based ability. Or simply summon Elf tokens; nobody calls out Garruk as having a myopic design for typically being based around Beast tokens.
And two: Why is it so hard to imagine?
GG
Planeswalker
/+3:\ Target creature you control fights target creature you don’t control.
\-5:/ Target creature fights another target creature.
\-10:/ ~ deals 7 damage to each creature target opponent controls.
||2||
2GG
Planeswalker
/+2:\ Target creature gets +2/+2 until end of turn.
|0:| Until end of turn, ~ is a creature with power and toughness each equal to the number of loyalty counters on it. Prevent all damage that would be dealt to ~ this turn. When ~ deals combat damage to a player this turn, each creature you control becomes monstrous.
|0:| Destroy target noncreature permanent. Activate this ability only if ~ is monstrous.
||4||
3GGGG
Planeswalker
/+1:\ Untap up to X target lands, where X is your devotion to green.
\-4:/ Put X 2/2 green creature tokens onto the battlefield, where X is your devotion to green.
\-8:/ Draw up to X cards, where X is your devotion to green.
||5||
3G
Planeswalker
/+1:\ Put a 3/3 creature token onto the battlefield.
\-1:/ Until end of turn, target creature’s controller may assign its combat damage as though it weren’t blocked.
\-6:/ Put a 3/3 creature token onto the battlefield for each creature target player controls.
||1||
1GG
Planeswalker
/+2:\ Put a +1/+1 counter on target creature.
\-X:/ You gain X life.
\-9:/ Target creature you control deals damage equal to its power to target player. That creature gets –X/-X until end of turn, where X is that player’s life total.
||3||
3GG
Planeswalker
/+1:\ Creatures you control gain trample until end of turn.
/+1:\ Creatures you control gain haste until end of turn.
\-1:/ Creatures you control gain deathtouch until end of turn.
\-6:/ Put a 5/5 green Wurm creature token with trample onto the battlefield for each creature card in target player’s graveyard.
||3||
2GG
Planeswalker
/+2:\ Until your next turn, whenever an opponent casts a spell, creatures you control get +1/+1 until end of turn.
|-1:| Until your next turn, whenever a creature enters the battlefield under an opponent’s control, put a 3/3 green Beast creature token onto the battlefield.
\-9:/ You may put any number of creature cards in your hand onto the battlefield.
||4||
3GG
Planeswalker – Nissa
/+2:\ You may put an Elf permanent card from your hand onto the battlefield.
\-1:/ Draw a card. You may play an additional land card this turn.
\-6:/ Choose one – Search your library for up to two creature and/or land cards, reveal them, put them into your hand, then shuffle your library; or put up to two creature and/or land cards from your hand onto the battlefield.
||2||
1GG
Planeswalker
As ~ enters the battlefield, choose a creature type.
/+1:\ Creatures you control get +1/+1 until end of turn.
|0:| Put a loyalty counter on ~ for each creature of the chosen type target player controls.
\-X:/ Put an X/X green creature token of the chosen type onto the battlefield.
||3||
3G
Planeswalker
/+1:\ Put a 1/2 green Spider creature token with reach onto the battlefield.
\-2:/ Destroy target creature with flying. ~ deals damage to its controller equal to the number of Spiders you control.
\-6:/ Destroy up to three target noncreature permanents.
||4||
About any "subpar" mechanics or cards: Context is king.
If I make a templating or grammar error, let me know.
The franchise MtG most resembles is Battlestar Galactica. Why? Its players exist in, at most, a dozen different models at any given point in time, with perhaps up to 3% variation, 5% if you're lucky.