It has been 10 years since we saw a story involving Dominaria (Odyssey block) (not counting Time Spiral either because it was a wonderful gimmick to celebrate the game, and was also a best-of, a what-if, and a let's-bring-to-life-this-legend block).
I think it's about time to make the return. But where to go?
Are any of the planeswalkers originally from Dominaria?
What business could any of them have their in regards to returning?
On a side note, been posting in the forums for 8 years and this is my first time setting foot in the storyline forum, heh... just interesting......
I'd just like to point out that baseless speculation will be dealt with accordingly, going forward.
That being said, whether you liked it or not, Time Spiral was about Dominaria. It's not the sort of thing you can ignore either since it had long lasting impact on the state of the world.
Things about Dominaria:
-There's lots of Glistening Oil, though the lack of artifice makes it no worse than pollution.
-Slivers exist everywhere.
-With Zhalfir gone, 97% of Jamuraa has not been explored in-story. The 3% we've seen was in the Legends novels. (Madara, Efrava, etc)
-Otaria is pretty much the only continent in the Southern Hemisphere we've seen.
-Important character's from Dominaria's past: Jodah, Jhoira, and Teferi were all alive last we saw them. Karn too.
-In terms of design, it is strictly a bottom-up world.
Speculatively, I'd like to hope that Dominaria will be home to the wedge set. If only because any storyline they come up for such a world would either be a complete rehashing of the Shard's or the Guild's stories; or it'll be so generic that they shouldn't want to bother creating an entire world around it.
-There's lots of Glistening Oil, though the lack of artifice makes it no worse than pollution.
After all these retcons I'm a bit confused about what is canon and what isn't, but wasn't the glistening oil supposed to be a secret weapon that didn't see mass-scale use and none at all during the invasion of Dominaria? Unless, of course, they say that all oil on Phyrexia has the properties of the glistening oil.
As for a return to Dominaria, I don't think it is impossible, but there are a few facts that make it unlikely.
For one, Dominaria lacks the defining thing that makes it "Dominaria". All other planes since Mirrodin did have specific themes due to the block structure. A return to Ravnica was a return of 2-colour combinations, and the return to Mirrodin was a return to an artifact block. What would a return to Dominaria mean, though?
Another reason is that Dominaria did not appear as a name in any product whatsoever. Even if people don't know about planes and that Ravnica and Kamigawa are a plane, they still know the cards associated with their respective blocks. But if they announce "Return to Dominaria" one day, 90% will wonder what the hell Dominaria is supposed to be.
After all these retcons I'm a bit confused about what is canon and what isn't, but wasn't the glistening oil supposed to be a secret weapon that didn't see mass-scale use and none at all during the invasion of Dominaria? Unless, of course, they say that all oil on Phyrexia has the properties of the glistening oil.
The glistening oil on Mirrodin wasn't supposed to be oil. It was an unfinished weapon, but they screwed that up and declared the weapon to be glistening oil... with no regards to the fact that there is a TON of the stuff soaking into Dominaria.
Incidentally though, people are affected by it. But it didn't have the insane brainwashing properties until Mirrodin 2: Voltaic Boogaloo. https://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtgcom/arcana/1389
So yeah, it's all screwed up because of MaRo's "brilliant idea" and the big red retcon button.
The glistening oil on Mirrodin wasn't supposed to be oil. It was an unfinished weapon, but they screwed that up and declared the weapon to be glistening oil... with no regards to the fact that there is a TON of the stuff soaking into Dominaria.
Incidentally though, people are affected by it. But it didn't have the insane brainwashing properties until Mirrodin 2: Voltaic Boogaloo. https://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtgcom/arcana/1389
So yeah, it's all screwed up because of MaRo's "brilliant idea" and the big red retcon button.
That's basically what I meant.
As an aside, it's unfair to blame everything on MaRo. The idea of Mirrodin getting corrupted is as old as Mirrodin itself. That was the origin of the Mycosinth and the appareance of the Mephidross after all. Plus, even if it was his initial idea, Creative must have approved that idea in order to pass. Maro is not some sort of despot ruthlessly ruling over WotC.
Phyrexian fanbois were chomping at the bits for a corrupt Mirrodin as far back as 04. I'd like for Dominaria to have that wild, unsafe feel I got from the old comics, the Arena novel etc. I revisited the old comics...those with Ravidel, the Carthalions and all. Good stuff. I want to see that Dominaria again. I wouldn't mind if the creative team took a lesson from the Shadowmage and Wayfarer comics. There's more between the covers of one of those issues than in one of the old Planeswalker webcomics.
As an aside, it's unfair to blame everything on MaRo. The idea of Mirrodin getting corrupted is as old as Mirrodin itself. That was the origin of the Mycosinth and the appareance of the Mephidross after all. Plus, even if it was his initial idea, Creative must have approved that idea in order to pass. Maro is not some sort of despot ruthlessly ruling over WotC.
In this case though, he really is directly responsible.
The original structure of Mirrodin 2 was going to be an abandoned plane and phyrexian civil war. That went to pot when he decided to retcon the Mirrans back, and as a result, they had to invent a diabolus ex which would get rid of them... and in doing so, they decided to misattribute qualities to glistening oil that it didn't have before.
What would make dominaria for me would be ''go back to the basics''. As in, Llanowar (elves), Goblins, Dragons, all that stuff that they put in core sets these days but then in an advanced set.
I would like it to go back to the basic of magic again for once, without gimmicks.
They'll probably use Shandalar or something even if they do such a thing at this point... its rather hard tell a truly generic fantasy story anymore in Dominaria with all that apocalyptic baggage.
In this case though, he really is directly responsible.
The original structure of Mirrodin 2 was going to be an abandoned plane and phyrexian civil war. That went to pot when he decided to retcon the Mirrans back, and as a result, they had to invent a diabolus ex which would get rid of them... and in doing so, they decided to misattribute qualities to glistening oil that it didn't have before.
I know that, but bringing back the Mirrans is not a design issue. If Maro had the idea, it would have needed to be approved by at least two other departements: Creative and Marketing. You can blame Maro for putting poison in the block, because he was the lead designer, but blaming him for a decision that he couldn't have executed by himself is mistaking his position at WotC.
So yeah, it's all screwed up because of MaRo's "brilliant idea" and the big red retcon button.
MaRo is one man and he had to go through the entirety of the creative department and brand and everyone else in Wotc.
The company is not his own cult of personality and he is not the only one to blame for Scars general poopiness.
You know, that realy surprises me, as he recently gave it a 5 on the storm scale. The problem with Dominaria is that the longer we wait to return, it becomes less likely for us to return there. Most new players haven't heard about it (especialy if they are going to replace cards that refer to it, like LLanowar Elves) and every year we move away from Timespiral (or more correctly the years of Onslaught block and earlier) there will be less players who remember it fondly and want a return. Even if they decide to return too an old plane roughly every 3 years, it is more likely they revisited their recent big hits first, Zendikar and Innistrad, before returning to Dominaria. So in that case we are at least 9 years away from a return to Dominaria. I am not sure if there will be enough players who care about a return to Dominaria in those years, especialy considering that in those 9 years there might be other popular planes to return to (Theros sadly seems to be relatively populair) and a return to return to Ravnika is also quite likely.
Does Maro knows something about a return to Dominaria we don't know yet?
The problem is that you're making a lot of assumptions. A return to Dominaria doesn't mean a return to Otaria or a return to Jamuura or the Domains. It means a return to Dominaria.
There are advantages to returning to a world without having to play that nostalgia card. Does it make a lot of sense to return to a world without playing that? Well, it isn't the best use of resources, but at the same time, Dominaria is HUGE... maybe they don't want to tell a huge story and for that, Dominaria offers a climate they can work in to do something new. Make it a continental conflict, something new that will enrich the tapestry of the plane rather than fretting over packing in references to a billion other things from the past.
You see, something forgotten here is that Otaria had no place in the older lore. It benefited from that history, but wasn't reliant on it to be what it was. That's the kind of location we are most likely to have spring up when we return, not a second nostalgia block.
In some ways Mirrodin and Ravnica have ruined people because they're focused so solely on what they did.
Sadly for Dominaria it does have a very good rival in Shandalar, which has been showing up in the core set a lot recently. Anyway, we will see. Maro being so positive is a good sign, but it makes it far from a certainty.
I dunno, I tend to view Shandalar as the "too weird for a block" setting. While it has some general fantasy flavor, you cannot deny that it has gone a bit weird and rogue in times. It's the difference between the coherence of Dominaria and the stapled together Shandalar. You really can't say much about it other than that it is a very general, and sometimes outlandish, collection of items.
As for the other bit, Dominaria has a fairly diverse cultural background, ranging from Norse references to African. They have a lot of specificity that they can use if they want to narrow it down.
Dominaria has probably the richest history in all of MTG. So much sets happened only to tell its story make it unrivaled in all of MTG. So much places, time periods, events spanning centuries of events make it unfair to have it ignored by now. If I'm right, even though it's described as "post-apocalyptic", it's still recovering and I sincerely hope to see it back in full form one day.
As for Shandalar weirdness, I don't know how they creatively set the core sets up, but if it's supposed to describe Shandalar, how come we have Shivan Dragons and Benalian Knights in it?
What sort of wierdness exists on Shandalar? I know about the ring artifacts, but those are pretty standard when it comes to fantasy.
Well, just for one example, the slivers, but also the strangeness of the Onakke troll ancient civilization.
But more, it's because the places don't feel natural next to each other. There's a stylistic clash between things like Thune and Evos Isle and Kalonia from what little we've seen of them. They just don't mesh even though they're supposed to be the same plane and even in fair proximity of each other.
You know, that realy surprises me, as he recently gave it a 5 on the storm scale. The problem with Dominaria is that the longer we wait to return, it becomes less likely for us to return there. Most new players haven't heard about it (especialy if they are going to replace cards that refer to it, like LLanowar Elves) and every year we move away from Timespiral (or more correctly the years of Onslaught block and earlier) there will be less players who remember it fondly and want a return. Even if they decide to return too an old plane roughly every 3 years, it is more likely they revisited their recent big hits first, Zendikar and Innistrad, before returning to Dominaria. So in that case we are at least 9 years away from a return to Dominaria. I am not sure if there will be enough players who care about a return to Dominaria in those years, especialy considering that in those 9 years there might be other popular planes to return to (Theros sadly seems to be relatively populair) and a return to return to Ravnika is also quite likely.
Does Maro knows something about a return to Dominaria we don't know yet?
I think you're reading way too much into this. Maro is fond of the saying "never is a long time". He loves to be clever and often says things that make people think about something else, while still being technically correct. He didn't say "eventually" by accident. Does it say anything about a return to Dominaria sooner or later? Not at all. Essentially, his comment is a non-information.
I dunno, I tend to view Shandalar as the "too weird for a block" setting. While it has some general fantasy flavor, you cannot deny that it has gone a bit weird and rogue in times.
If there's one thing that video games have taught me, it's that red barrels are explosive.
But if there's two things that video games have taught me, it's that red barrels are explosive, and that there are plenty of stories to be told in barren wastelands and post-apocalyptic worlds.
We just have to figure out what hes fighting against.
The "barren wasteland" set better be Dominaria and not Zendikar!!! We should go back someday, it was literally the center of the universe plane for 10 years.
I think it's about time to make the return. But where to go?
Are any of the planeswalkers originally from Dominaria?
What business could any of them have their in regards to returning?
On a side note, been posting in the forums for 8 years and this is my first time setting foot in the storyline forum, heh... just interesting......
That being said, whether you liked it or not, Time Spiral was about Dominaria. It's not the sort of thing you can ignore either since it had long lasting impact on the state of the world.
-There's lots of Glistening Oil, though the lack of artifice makes it no worse than pollution.
-Slivers exist everywhere.
-With Zhalfir gone, 97% of Jamuraa has not been explored in-story. The 3% we've seen was in the Legends novels. (Madara, Efrava, etc)
-Otaria is pretty much the only continent in the Southern Hemisphere we've seen.
-Important character's from Dominaria's past: Jodah, Jhoira, and Teferi were all alive last we saw them. Karn too.
-In terms of design, it is strictly a bottom-up world.
Speculatively, I'd like to hope that Dominaria will be home to the wedge set. If only because any storyline they come up for such a world would either be a complete rehashing of the Shard's or the Guild's stories; or it'll be so generic that they shouldn't want to bother creating an entire world around it.
I imagine being substantially bigger and not being hollow also helps.
It's also been rendered a lifeless wasteland.
Not at all.
Every single set to take place there was top down.
Level 1 Judge
I write flavor articles for RoxieCards.
I play and judge at Giga Bites Cafein Marietta, Georgia.
Level 1 Judge
I write flavor articles for RoxieCards.
I play and judge at Giga Bites Cafein Marietta, Georgia.
After all these retcons I'm a bit confused about what is canon and what isn't, but wasn't the glistening oil supposed to be a secret weapon that didn't see mass-scale use and none at all during the invasion of Dominaria? Unless, of course, they say that all oil on Phyrexia has the properties of the glistening oil.
As for a return to Dominaria, I don't think it is impossible, but there are a few facts that make it unlikely.
For one, Dominaria lacks the defining thing that makes it "Dominaria". All other planes since Mirrodin did have specific themes due to the block structure. A return to Ravnica was a return of 2-colour combinations, and the return to Mirrodin was a return to an artifact block. What would a return to Dominaria mean, though?
Another reason is that Dominaria did not appear as a name in any product whatsoever. Even if people don't know about planes and that Ravnica and Kamigawa are a plane, they still know the cards associated with their respective blocks. But if they announce "Return to Dominaria" one day, 90% will wonder what the hell Dominaria is supposed to be.
The glistening oil on Mirrodin wasn't supposed to be oil. It was an unfinished weapon, but they screwed that up and declared the weapon to be glistening oil... with no regards to the fact that there is a TON of the stuff soaking into Dominaria.
Incidentally though, people are affected by it. But it didn't have the insane brainwashing properties until Mirrodin 2: Voltaic Boogaloo.
https://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtgcom/arcana/1389
So yeah, it's all screwed up because of MaRo's "brilliant idea" and the big red retcon button.
That's basically what I meant.
As an aside, it's unfair to blame everything on MaRo. The idea of Mirrodin getting corrupted is as old as Mirrodin itself. That was the origin of the Mycosinth and the appareance of the Mephidross after all. Plus, even if it was his initial idea, Creative must have approved that idea in order to pass. Maro is not some sort of despot ruthlessly ruling over WotC.
In this case though, he really is directly responsible.
The original structure of Mirrodin 2 was going to be an abandoned plane and phyrexian civil war. That went to pot when he decided to retcon the Mirrans back, and as a result, they had to invent a diabolus ex which would get rid of them... and in doing so, they decided to misattribute qualities to glistening oil that it didn't have before.
They'll probably use Shandalar or something even if they do such a thing at this point... its rather hard tell a truly generic fantasy story anymore in Dominaria with all that apocalyptic baggage.
I know that, but bringing back the Mirrans is not a design issue. If Maro had the idea, it would have needed to be approved by at least two other departements: Creative and Marketing. You can blame Maro for putting poison in the block, because he was the lead designer, but blaming him for a decision that he couldn't have executed by himself is mistaking his position at WotC.
MaRo is one man and he had to go through the entirety of the creative department and brand and everyone else in Wotc.
The company is not his own cult of personality and he is not the only one to blame for Scars general poopiness.
Level 1 Judge
I write flavor articles for RoxieCards.
I play and judge at Giga Bites Cafein Marietta, Georgia.
Just dropping this here to generate some discussion.
The problem is that you're making a lot of assumptions. A return to Dominaria doesn't mean a return to Otaria or a return to Jamuura or the Domains. It means a return to Dominaria.
There are advantages to returning to a world without having to play that nostalgia card. Does it make a lot of sense to return to a world without playing that? Well, it isn't the best use of resources, but at the same time, Dominaria is HUGE... maybe they don't want to tell a huge story and for that, Dominaria offers a climate they can work in to do something new. Make it a continental conflict, something new that will enrich the tapestry of the plane rather than fretting over packing in references to a billion other things from the past.
You see, something forgotten here is that Otaria had no place in the older lore. It benefited from that history, but wasn't reliant on it to be what it was. That's the kind of location we are most likely to have spring up when we return, not a second nostalgia block.
In some ways Mirrodin and Ravnica have ruined people because they're focused so solely on what they did.
I dunno, I tend to view Shandalar as the "too weird for a block" setting. While it has some general fantasy flavor, you cannot deny that it has gone a bit weird and rogue in times. It's the difference between the coherence of Dominaria and the stapled together Shandalar. You really can't say much about it other than that it is a very general, and sometimes outlandish, collection of items.
As for the other bit, Dominaria has a fairly diverse cultural background, ranging from Norse references to African. They have a lot of specificity that they can use if they want to narrow it down.
As for Shandalar weirdness, I don't know how they creatively set the core sets up, but if it's supposed to describe Shandalar, how come we have Shivan Dragons and Benalian Knights in it?
Well, just for one example, the slivers, but also the strangeness of the Onakke troll ancient civilization.
But more, it's because the places don't feel natural next to each other. There's a stylistic clash between things like Thune and Evos Isle and Kalonia from what little we've seen of them. They just don't mesh even though they're supposed to be the same plane and even in fair proximity of each other.
I think you're reading way too much into this. Maro is fond of the saying "never is a long time". He loves to be clever and often says things that make people think about something else, while still being technically correct. He didn't say "eventually" by accident. Does it say anything about a return to Dominaria sooner or later? Not at all. Essentially, his comment is a non-information.
Heh, I see what you did there.
Level 1 Judge
I write flavor articles for RoxieCards.
I play and judge at Giga Bites Cafein Marietta, Georgia.
He said "rogue".
It's funny because Shandalar is a rogue plane, drifting through the Blind Eternities, and was able to weave in and out of the Shard of Twelve Worlds back when that was a thing.
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Special thanks to Serrot_29 for Catbug'mrakul!
Level 1 Judge
I write flavor articles for RoxieCards.
I play and judge at Giga Bites Cafein Marietta, Georgia.
http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/73574492532/will-we-ever-get-a-teferi-planeswalker-or-is-it
We just have to figure out what hes fighting against.
The "barren wasteland" set better be Dominaria and not Zendikar!!! We should go back someday, it was literally the center of the universe plane for 10 years.
B Lover Since '09 ~
Standard:
meh.
Modern:
Urzatron GR
Vintage:
Contol-Slaver UBR
EDH:
Drana B
Jhoira UR
Savra BG
Turned into:
Adun Oakenshield BGR
Sharuum BUW
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Memnarch U
KiKi-Jiki R
Turned into:
Godo R
Turned into:
Aurelia RW
The Mimeoplasm UBG
Rasputin Dreamweaver UW
Turned into:
Geist of Saint Traft -French 1v1 UW
Nekusar UBR