Ok, sorry misread your quote. I do agree with the sentient thing, but evolutions to differentiate does not mean sentient though, again I reference the GoW Locust, they weren't really sentient on some of the levels, but they could differentiate quite well. Same thing here, these slivers can tell friend from enemy and know who is on there side, doesn't make them any more sentient, just more adapted at people using them against themselves.
I still don't agree with the "they evolved" explanation. That feels like a bit of a cop out on creative's part. Now, after allowing the initial shock to wear off (I was told about this by a friend right before my AP Calc test) I would be okay with this IF they were a separate breed of slivers entirely, e.g. Shandalar slivers vs. Rathi slivers. If that's the case then I could agree to disagree with Shandalar slivers and still enjoy the original as somewhat of a different type.
Plant a seed. Watch it grow.
Hire a snake to plant more trees. Watch them grow.
Blow up a bunch of trees, break a vase when someone tells you not to blow up your trees, surprise the trees are now volcanoes.
Modern- Grapeshot - 79% Legacy- Tendrils of Agony - 83% Vintage- Mind's Desire - 49%, 0/10 Power
I still don't agree with the "they evolved" explanation. That feels like a bit of a cop out on creative's part. Now, after allowing the initial shock to wear off (I was told about this by a friend right before my AP Calc test) I would be okay with this IF they were a separate breed of slivers entirely, e.g. Shandalar slivers vs. Rathi slivers. If that's the case then I could agree to disagree with Shandalar slivers and still enjoy the original as somewhat of a different type.
I think that it's very likely to be the case. I mean, we get vastly different elves at times, and though they took this a LOT further, as long as they are for a specific plane without prior influences, that'd be... okay.
Incidentally SENTIENT is not the right word. You are looking for SAPIENT.
SAPIENCE is the ability to reason, Sentience is merely the ability to react with awareness to your surroundings.
I think that it's very likely to be the case. I mean, we get vastly different elves at times, and though they took this a LOT further, as long as they are for a specific plane without prior influences, that'd be... okay.
s.
I'm afraid this won't be the case. Smokestack (Igor Kirlyuk) kind of confirmed that all new slivers will be following the new design.
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“I once had an entire race killed just to listen to the rattling of their dried bones as I waded through them.” —Volrath
I'm afraid this won't be the case. Smokestack (Igor Kirlyuk) kind of confirmed that all new slivers will be following the new design.
I don't think that's exactly what he's asking about, though? Basically, and I could be misinterpreting the question, but he's hoping that these are considered 'Shandalar Slivers' as a distinct group from the 'Rathi Slivers', which would be the old style sliver. Obviously, we won't be seeing the Rathi slivers again if that's the case, but it allows that separation in headspace, if that makes sense?
When flavor only exists as a justification and isn't interesting on its own, then there is something wrong with that flavor.
Flavor is flavor. You get what you can get. I'd much rather have them make some attempt rather than none. Besides, I think the flavor is interesting even if its not your cup of tea.
I don't think that's exactly what he's asking about, though? Basically, and I could be misinterpreting the question, but he's hoping that these are considered 'Shandalar Slivers' as a distinct group from the 'Rathi Slivers', which would be the old style sliver. Obviously, we won't be seeing the Rathi slivers again if that's the case, but it allows that separation in headspace, if that makes sense?
I really hope that this is the direction that they decide to take it, for exactly that reason. I guess personally it's that I heavily dislike the new slivers so any canon distinction from my old favorites is what I'm looking for and Shandalar Slivers vs. Rathi Slivers is exactly the sort of thing I'd want.
Yeah, from what I get it's really a sort of headcanon in this case. But you never know, if wizard discovers that a majority of their players prefer the old look, they might pull the "Shandalar Slivers" explanation and do the Rathi ones next time.
I can see them at least changing the look back again, while it's almost impossible to do the same with their abilities under New World Order.
I would be surprised there were ever a majority decision either for or against these slivers.
Plant a seed. Watch it grow.
Hire a snake to plant more trees. Watch them grow.
Blow up a bunch of trees, break a vase when someone tells you not to blow up your trees, surprise the trees are now volcanoes.
Modern- Grapeshot - 79% Legacy- Tendrils of Agony - 83% Vintage- Mind's Desire - 49%, 0/10 Power
After seeing the new Megantic Sliver I'm more convinced than ever that these are just an excuse to burn through a bunch of unused art that they have.
Unlikely - while the Slivers are in many ways looking like "generic humanoid race 8472" now they do have common traits. Those traits - while not always all present at the same time and in varying prominence on each art (as to be expected in multiple depictions of a bio-diverse species) - are recognizable in all arts I've spotted so far.
So unless you think one or a few re-used pieces of art from some kind of abandoned race spawned all the other arts or that there was a quiet large batch of unused art of a non-Sliver bio-diverse Species lying around the likely explanation is that the artists had a central style guide to refer to i. e. the art was created after the conception of the new Sliver style.
On the other hand you can now suggest all pieces not fitting the criteria could be altered after completion, but that starts to enter conspiracy theory territory.
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Planar Chaos was not a mistake neither was it random. You might want to look at it again.
[thread=239793][Game] Level Up - Creature[/thread]
Flavor is flavor. You get what you can get. I'd much rather have them make some attempt rather than none. Besides, I think the flavor is interesting even if its not your cup of tea.
I totally agree. Let me know when that happens.
Anyway, as you can tell by my thanks/"thumbs up" in the this thread, I agree that the design (both art and mechanics) is lazy, it flies in the face of current sliver fans, and if they couldn't treat the legacy respectfully, they should have created something new. I mean, it's already 70% new stuff, why not go the last 30 and make up a new creature type. How about Zeranids, or Tyromorphs
For what its worth it's been closer to 20-50 years since Time Spiral not 8-12. Still not enough for such a dramatic evolutionary leap but not as bad as a single decade...
To be fair, after Time Spiral, "time" is relative on Dominaria. Time is still in flux there (armored cancrix). But as said before, these are not rathi/dominarian slivers. Heck, all those slivers are descendants of Volrath and his experiments. Who is to say that these new slivers aren't the "originals"?
To be fair, after Time Spiral, "time" is relative on Dominaria. Time is still in flux there (armored cancrix). But as said before, these are not rathi/dominarian slivers. Heck, all those slivers are descendants of Volrath and his experiments. Who is to say that these new slivers aren't the "originals"?
I have always thought of slivers as coming from some far away and alien plane, and get introduced to other planes through careless walkers who summon them to other worlds. They then evolve (as slivers do, as an analogy for evolution), to fill the needs of their hive on that particular plane.
On Rath/Dominaria they look one way. On Shandalar another, and so on.
It neatly explains the differences between the old slivers and these new neo-slivers.
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It's about time for the reserved list to die, for the sake of Vintage and Legacy (And Commander).
I wonder when people realize that the problem is not the lack of an explanation. After all the game is called Magic the Gathering. You could explain everything with "A wizard did it."
The problem is that these creatures break with every single aesthetic feature of the old slivers. And that has nothing at all to do with lore. It's not even needed to change the slivers as much as they were to show the different species on different worlds. Out of all species slivers have experienced the most drastic shift in aesthetic design. And I even think you'd have an easier time drawing the connections between orochi and snakes than between these new creatures and slivers.
I still don't agree with the "they evolved" explanation. That feels like a bit of a cop out on creative's part. Now, after allowing the initial shock to wear off (I was told about this by a friend right before my AP Calc test) I would be okay with this IF they were a separate breed of slivers entirely, e.g. Shandalar slivers vs. Rathi slivers. If that's the case then I could agree to disagree with Shandalar slivers and still enjoy the original as somewhat of a different type.
Modern- Grapeshot - 79%
Legacy- Tendrils of Agony - 83%
Vintage- Mind's Desire - 49%, 0/10 Power
I think that it's very likely to be the case. I mean, we get vastly different elves at times, and though they took this a LOT further, as long as they are for a specific plane without prior influences, that'd be... okay.
Incidentally SENTIENT is not the right word. You are looking for SAPIENT.
SAPIENCE is the ability to reason, Sentience is merely the ability to react with awareness to your surroundings.
When flavor only exists as a justification and isn't interesting on its own, then there is something wrong with that flavor.
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I'm afraid this won't be the case. Smokestack (Igor Kirlyuk) kind of confirmed that all new slivers will be following the new design.
“I once had an entire race killed just to listen to the rattling of their dried bones as I waded through them.”
—Volrath
I don't think that's exactly what he's asking about, though? Basically, and I could be misinterpreting the question, but he's hoping that these are considered 'Shandalar Slivers' as a distinct group from the 'Rathi Slivers', which would be the old style sliver. Obviously, we won't be seeing the Rathi slivers again if that's the case, but it allows that separation in headspace, if that makes sense?
So slivers are now like Hunters from Halo?
I just hate the visual redesign. I am OK with them being one-sided, but these aren't recognizable as slivers to me.
Onakke? Shandalar.
Original slivers? Shandalar.
Where did I put my keys? Shandalar.
Flavor is flavor. You get what you can get. I'd much rather have them make some attempt rather than none. Besides, I think the flavor is interesting even if its not your cup of tea.
I really hope that this is the direction that they decide to take it, for exactly that reason. I guess personally it's that I heavily dislike the new slivers so any canon distinction from my old favorites is what I'm looking for and Shandalar Slivers vs. Rathi Slivers is exactly the sort of thing I'd want.
I would be surprised there were ever a majority decision either for or against these slivers.
Modern- Grapeshot - 79%
Legacy- Tendrils of Agony - 83%
Vintage- Mind's Desire - 49%, 0/10 Power
i unfortunately feel the same. i just have no idea wtf a sliver is anymore
Niv-Mizzet Ramp 'n' Wheel
Godo: Strap him up and turn him sideways!
holy crap... thats actually too similar! its insulting to the player base if this is legit
Niv-Mizzet Ramp 'n' Wheel
Godo: Strap him up and turn him sideways!
Look familiar?
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“I once had an entire race killed just to listen to the rattling of their dried bones as I waded through them.”
—Volrath
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The similarity is pretty impressive!! So we shall expect Jin-Gitaxias and Sheoldred-like slivers for blue and black... LOL
Curious... If this is, indeed, deliverated, and it must be; I guess this will have a pretty interesting plot
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Unlikely - while the Slivers are in many ways looking like "generic humanoid race 8472" now they do have common traits. Those traits - while not always all present at the same time and in varying prominence on each art (as to be expected in multiple depictions of a bio-diverse species) - are recognizable in all arts I've spotted so far.
So unless you think one or a few re-used pieces of art from some kind of abandoned race spawned all the other arts or that there was a quiet large batch of unused art of a non-Sliver bio-diverse Species lying around the likely explanation is that the artists had a central style guide to refer to i. e. the art was created after the conception of the new Sliver style.
On the other hand you can now suggest all pieces not fitting the criteria could be altered after completion, but that starts to enter conspiracy theory territory.
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I totally agree. Let me know when that happens.
Anyway, as you can tell by my thanks/"thumbs up" in the this thread, I agree that the design (both art and mechanics) is lazy, it flies in the face of current sliver fans, and if they couldn't treat the legacy respectfully, they should have created something new. I mean, it's already 70% new stuff, why not go the last 30 and make up a new creature type. How about Zeranids, or Tyromorphs
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To be fair, after Time Spiral, "time" is relative on Dominaria. Time is still in flux there (armored cancrix). But as said before, these are not rathi/dominarian slivers. Heck, all those slivers are descendants of Volrath and his experiments. Who is to say that these new slivers aren't the "originals"?
On Modern Masters 2:
Will be kept until 12/31/2013 to prove if Right or Wrong.Proven right 1/27/2013I have always thought of slivers as coming from some far away and alien plane, and get introduced to other planes through careless walkers who summon them to other worlds. They then evolve (as slivers do, as an analogy for evolution), to fill the needs of their hive on that particular plane.
On Rath/Dominaria they look one way. On Shandalar another, and so on.
It neatly explains the differences between the old slivers and these new neo-slivers.
---
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
The problem is that these creatures break with every single aesthetic feature of the old slivers. And that has nothing at all to do with lore. It's not even needed to change the slivers as much as they were to show the different species on different worlds. Out of all species slivers have experienced the most drastic shift in aesthetic design. And I even think you'd have an easier time drawing the connections between orochi and snakes than between these new creatures and slivers.
No, that's just silly.
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Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
I've already provided a perfectly reasonable and scientific (and flavorful) reason for the change in slivers earlier in this thread.
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Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.