So, we know there will be Merfolk in Return to Ravnica, we know the Simic Guild leader is a Merfolk, we know there weren't Merfolk in the original Ravnica block, and we know the Simic guild is big on biomancy.... You see where I'm going here?
My theory is that the Simic were hunted down after the Guildpact broke and it got out how inhumane their experiments were. To protect themselves, they went into hiding the one place no air-breathers could go... underwater, by splicing fish parts onto themselves.
Maro has also said that the presence of Merfolk in RTR is an important part of the block's story, and the second block (which contains the Simic) is called Gatecrash. Maybe the Simic, now confident that they have reached the pinnacle of evolution and science/magic, have emerged from the seas to take over the city.
Ok, the second part may be grasping at straws, but I think I'm onto something with the first part. Any storyline gurus have any evidence to point for or against?
The Simic probably did get some major reforms given the Vigean methods being totally inhuman. If the Selesnyans didn't make it unscathed, I don't think the Simic would.
The Golgari at least have the luck of being out of the way.
Anyways, Aquatics actually already existed as far back as Ravnica. Just like there are owl-folk on Ravnica, but no Avens.
Personally, I don't think it likely the Simic spliced themselves into merfolk.
My theory is that the merfolk appearance has to do with the storyline behind the Golgari v. Izzet deck. Niv Mizzet goes digging around in the undercity and probably finds the merfolk.
Anyways, aside from that, I don't think the Simic we see are going to be very close to the Simic that were. Momir Vig is gone, as is likely his methods.
Anyways, aside from that, I don't think the Simic we see are going to be very close to the Simic that were. Momir Vig is gone, as is likely his methods.
The new guildmaster (Zigana, I think) looks nothing like the Simic we previously knew, doesn't she? I'll be happy if RTR explores a side of UG other than the "mad scientist" one.
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The new guildmaster (Zigana, I think) looks nothing like the Simic we previously knew, doesn't she? I'll be happy if RTR explores a side of UG other than the "mad scientist" one.
I honestly expect something closer to the "mad druid" aspect. Something closer to the Simic's original purpose and nature.
Someone in another thread suggested that the reason there is Merfolk on Ravnica is because once Gideon returned to Ravnica after the events of Rise of the Eldrazi. He, with the help of the Infinite Consortium, built an inter-planar Gate to rescue the inhabitants of Zendikar.
The set known as Gatecrash, will take place during the time that something happens to this interplanary gate, causing it to close, collapse, or something else entirely.
Regardless on that, once the Gate was built, the inhabitants of Zendikar started to fill into the Guilds of Ravnica. Merfolk chose Simic, and a merfolk became Guild Leader.
Nice theory (there even is, or was, an interplanar ship on Ravnica to begin with), but is has some huge holes in it. Like, why would Simic choose some fresh-off-the-train fish person to run their guild in the first place? It takes time to even become a member, much less get high in the hierarchy of any guild.
Half of the Simic guild is mindless drones and science experiments, not to mention it has no surviving Parun, and it pretty much fell apart at the end of Dissension with the entire Experiment Kraj disaster. Then there's the fact that most of the citizens of Ravnica don't trust the Simic after Vig took over and took the guild in a new and dangerous direction, changing their initiative completely.
It wouldn't be hard for someone to simply pick up a broken guild and make themselves the leader.
He, with the help of the Infinite Consortium, built an inter-planar Gate to rescue the inhabitants of Zendikar.
The set known as Gatecrash, will take place during the time that something happens to this interplanary gate, causing it to close, collapse, or something else entirely.
That is an interesting theory. If nothing else, it would give creative a way to make the Eldrazi a tangible threat to the multiverse outside of Zendikar. I specify tangible, because as it is now, if they escape Zendikar they become their usual, incorporeal selves, and thus make much less interesting creatures. Though given what we know about the trapping of the Eldrazi, I would assume they would lose their bodies if they left Zendikar even through a planar gate, but we all know that whatever creative wants to do, they can, in-story logic/canon aside.
Speaking to the appearance of merfolk on Ravnica, if there wasn't that quote about it being relevant to the story, I wouldn't have even questioned it. Ravnica is huge and diverse, and just because a species/race isn't seen or heard about in the cards or books doesn't mean they aren't present on the plane, whether that is in or outside of the city.
Since it is known that it IS relevant to the plot, the aforementioned theory is plausible, but I don't know if I would bet on it. A)Where the hell did Gideon learn to make portals? B)Seems like a dangerous gamble to build a planar gate on a plane meant to be used as a prison for the Eldrazi. C) The merfolk leader of the Simic doesn't look like the ones from Zendikar.
As for the Simic creating the merfolk, that does seem like something they would do for the hell of it. But I still wouldn't put my money there.
Truth be told, I don't have my own speculative theory, but none I have heard yet have rang true to me.
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That is an interesting theory. If nothing else, it would give creative a way to make the Eldrazi a tangible threat to the multiverse outside of Zendikar. I specify tangible, because as it is now, if they escape Zendikar they become their usual, incorporeal selves, and thus make much less interesting creatures. Though given what we know about the trapping of the Eldrazi, I would assume they would lose their bodies if they left Zendikar even through a planar gate, but we all know that whatever creative wants to do, they can, in-story logic/canon aside.
Speaking to the appearance of merfolk on Ravnica, if there wasn't that quote about it being relevant to the story, I wouldn't have even questioned it. Ravnica is huge and diverse, and just because a species/race isn't seen or heard about in the cards or books doesn't mean they aren't present on the plane, whether that is in or outside of the city.
Since it is known that it IS relevant to the plot, the aforementioned theory is plausible, but I don't know if I would bet on it. A)Where the hell did Gideon learn to make portals? B)Seems like a dangerous gamble to build a planar gate on a plane meant to be used as a prison for the Eldrazi. C) The merfolk leader of the Simic doesn't look like the ones from Zendikar.
As for the Simic creating the merfolk, that does seem like something they would do for the hell of it. But I still wouldn't put my money there.
Truth be told, I don't have my own speculative theory, but none I have heard yet have rang true to me.
Gideon may not know how to make portals, but with the combined power of the Infinite Consortium it could be possible. Also, he said he would help save the inhabitants of Zendikar, and Gideon is a man of honor, I suspect he would build the portal, even knowing the risk, just to keep his word.
Gideon may not know how to make portals, but with the combined power of the Infinite Consortium it could be possible. Also, he said he would help save the inhabitants of Zendikar, and Gideon is a man of honor, I suspect he would build the portal, even knowing the risk, just to keep his word.
As for C, fair enough.
The problem there is that there IS no Infinite Consortium.
There is the Ravnica Cell, and only the Ravnica Cell. Jace does not have the resources that Tezzeret had.
He also doesn't actually have the same skills, Jace doesn't have the potential to make a portal like you are describing.
There are only two possibilities of the refugee theory working.
Either Niv Mizzet makes one, because he clearly has the skills, or the angels restored the Parhelion and improved upon it to actually function as it was meant. Given that Gideon joined the Boros, you should lean towards the restored Parhelion being used as a potential evacuation device.
You underestimate the difficulty of what you propose.
The Simic probably did get some major reforms given the Vigean methods being totally inhuman. If the Selesnyans didn't make it unscathed, I don't think the Simic would.
The Golgari at least have the luck of being out of the way.
Anyways, Aquatics actually already existed as far back as Ravnica. Just like there are owl-folk on Ravnica, but no Avens.
Personally, I don't think it likely the Simic spliced themselves into merfolk.
My theory is that the merfolk appearance has to do with the storyline behind the Golgari v. Izzet deck. Niv Mizzet goes digging around in the undercity and probably finds the merfolk.
Anyways, aside from that, I don't think the Simic we see are going to be very close to the Simic that were. Momir Vig is gone, as is likely his methods.
I really like this theory, but there's one thing I'd like to add to it: When you think "Gatecrash" what about thinking more along the lines of "Party-Crash" or "Wedding-Crash" etc.? In other words, if they have opened a interplanar gate to evacuate folks such as merfolks, maybe something uninvited decides to pass through....crash through the gate.
Half of the Simic guild is mindless drones and science experiments, not to mention it has no surviving Parun, and it pretty much fell apart at the end of Dissension with the entire Experiment Kraj disaster. Then there's the fact that most of the citizens of Ravnica don't trust the Simic after Vig took over and took the guild in a new and dangerous direction, changing their initiative completely.
It wouldn't be hard for someone to simply pick up a broken guild and make themselves the leader.
Regardless, speculation.
Actually, the Simic had no surviving leader. We don't have much info on their Parun.
And it's been quite a while after Dissension, so they will have probably a new leader by now.
In other words, if they have opened a interplanar gate to evacuate folks such as merfolks, maybe something uninvited decides to pass through....crash through the gate.
Why does every thread on RTR end up as speculation about the Eldrazi invading the plane?
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Why does every thread on RTR end up as speculation about the Eldrazi invading the plane?
I don't understand that either. What does make sense though is that these merfolk on RAV look to be of the same type that the plane of Shandalar is sporting. My theory is that Shandalar is drifting through the multiverse and at some point long ago (but obviously after Dissension) Shandalar made a very close pass to the city of guilds. It would explain the existence of merfolk on RAV.
Now where do the Eldrazi come in the play? Shandalar's next stop is Zendikar. Bam. 2 cents given.
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No, I was talking about the Simic parun, Simic.
But agreed on we probably getting info on the merfolk guildmaster.
In fairness, Simic was only his last name. It's also been implied from a few word of god sources that PIECES of him might still be around.... as disturbing as that is to consider.
In fairness, Simic was only his last name. It's also been implied from a few word of god sources that PIECES of him might still be around.... as disturbing as that is to consider.
Considering Svogthir, that wouldn't be a surprise.
In fairness, Simic was only his last name. It's also been implied from a few word of god sources that PIECES of him might still be around.... as disturbing as that is to consider.
I'm not sure if I'd heard this before or not, but it makes me all tingly inside.
Considering Svogthir, that wouldn't be a surprise.
Speaking of Paruns I wonder why they consider Szadek dead if he was still a ghost when we left Rav. I'm fairly certain ghosts don't just time out after a while.
Speaking of Paruns I wonder why they consider Szadek dead if he was still a ghost when we left Rav. I'm fairly certain ghosts don't just time out after a while.
Well alot can change since we last left, with Ravnica no longer isolated fro mthe rest of the multiverse, ghosts can once again leave the plane, it's possible that Kos suceeded in his mission, it is also possible that Szadek was just deposed by the new guildleader, and is still lurking in the shadows)
I just think Creative didn't want a vampire ghost as the Dimir leader (since that would be pretty close to the Orzhov). Though i think there's some cool visuals with having a mist-like Szadek, who would be the ultimate expression of stealth.
Killing major characters off screen is not beyond Creative.
My theory is that the Simic were hunted down after the Guildpact broke and it got out how inhumane their experiments were. To protect themselves, they went into hiding the one place no air-breathers could go... underwater, by splicing fish parts onto themselves.
Maro has also said that the presence of Merfolk in RTR is an important part of the block's story, and the second block (which contains the Simic) is called Gatecrash. Maybe the Simic, now confident that they have reached the pinnacle of evolution and science/magic, have emerged from the seas to take over the city.
Ok, the second part may be grasping at straws, but I think I'm onto something with the first part. Any storyline gurus have any evidence to point for or against?
Creature - Human Mutant
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Really? This again? The Simic aren't any more likely to be hunted down than, say, the Golgari.
That part sounds possible. I don't think it'll happen, but it's possible.
And that starts sounding like a bit of a stretch.
Pauper: UR some horrible homebrew izzet deck
The Golgari at least have the luck of being out of the way.
Anyways, Aquatics actually already existed as far back as Ravnica. Just like there are owl-folk on Ravnica, but no Avens.
Personally, I don't think it likely the Simic spliced themselves into merfolk.
My theory is that the merfolk appearance has to do with the storyline behind the Golgari v. Izzet deck. Niv Mizzet goes digging around in the undercity and probably finds the merfolk.
Anyways, aside from that, I don't think the Simic we see are going to be very close to the Simic that were. Momir Vig is gone, as is likely his methods.
The new guildmaster (Zigana, I think) looks nothing like the Simic we previously knew, doesn't she? I'll be happy if RTR explores a side of UG other than the "mad scientist" one.
Pauper: UR some horrible homebrew izzet deck
I honestly expect something closer to the "mad druid" aspect. Something closer to the Simic's original purpose and nature.
The set known as Gatecrash, will take place during the time that something happens to this interplanary gate, causing it to close, collapse, or something else entirely.
Regardless on that, once the Gate was built, the inhabitants of Zendikar started to fill into the Guilds of Ravnica. Merfolk chose Simic, and a merfolk became Guild Leader.
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Half of the Simic guild is mindless drones and science experiments, not to mention it has no surviving Parun, and it pretty much fell apart at the end of Dissension with the entire Experiment Kraj disaster. Then there's the fact that most of the citizens of Ravnica don't trust the Simic after Vig took over and took the guild in a new and dangerous direction, changing their initiative completely.
It wouldn't be hard for someone to simply pick up a broken guild and make themselves the leader.
Regardless, speculation.
Reckless Waif; It's the red Delver of Secrets.
That is an interesting theory. If nothing else, it would give creative a way to make the Eldrazi a tangible threat to the multiverse outside of Zendikar. I specify tangible, because as it is now, if they escape Zendikar they become their usual, incorporeal selves, and thus make much less interesting creatures. Though given what we know about the trapping of the Eldrazi, I would assume they would lose their bodies if they left Zendikar even through a planar gate, but we all know that whatever creative wants to do, they can, in-story logic/canon aside.
Speaking to the appearance of merfolk on Ravnica, if there wasn't that quote about it being relevant to the story, I wouldn't have even questioned it. Ravnica is huge and diverse, and just because a species/race isn't seen or heard about in the cards or books doesn't mean they aren't present on the plane, whether that is in or outside of the city.
Since it is known that it IS relevant to the plot, the aforementioned theory is plausible, but I don't know if I would bet on it. A)Where the hell did Gideon learn to make portals? B)Seems like a dangerous gamble to build a planar gate on a plane meant to be used as a prison for the Eldrazi. C) The merfolk leader of the Simic doesn't look like the ones from Zendikar.
As for the Simic creating the merfolk, that does seem like something they would do for the hell of it. But I still wouldn't put my money there.
Truth be told, I don't have my own speculative theory, but none I have heard yet have rang true to me.
:symg::symu: Infect-Old Standard that I need to update
And trying to decide what my next EDH will be.
I am a :symg::symrg::symr::symur::symu::symug: 'walker all the way.
Gideon may not know how to make portals, but with the combined power of the Infinite Consortium it could be possible. Also, he said he would help save the inhabitants of Zendikar, and Gideon is a man of honor, I suspect he would build the portal, even knowing the risk, just to keep his word.
As for C, fair enough.
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UWRGModern Saheeli CobraGRWU
UBRGLegacy StormGRBU
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The problem there is that there IS no Infinite Consortium.
There is the Ravnica Cell, and only the Ravnica Cell. Jace does not have the resources that Tezzeret had.
He also doesn't actually have the same skills, Jace doesn't have the potential to make a portal like you are describing.
There are only two possibilities of the refugee theory working.
Either Niv Mizzet makes one, because he clearly has the skills, or the angels restored the Parhelion and improved upon it to actually function as it was meant. Given that Gideon joined the Boros, you should lean towards the restored Parhelion being used as a potential evacuation device.
You underestimate the difficulty of what you propose.
Most likely true. I am not an avid Vorthos, and wasn't even around during Ravnica to know the story well enough.
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UWRGModern Saheeli CobraGRWU
UBRGLegacy StormGRBU
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I really like this theory, but there's one thing I'd like to add to it: When you think "Gatecrash" what about thinking more along the lines of "Party-Crash" or "Wedding-Crash" etc.? In other words, if they have opened a interplanar gate to evacuate folks such as merfolks, maybe something uninvited decides to pass through....crash through the gate.
Just a thought.
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Actually, the Simic had no surviving leader. We don't have much info on their Parun.
And it's been quite a while after Dissension, so they will have probably a new leader by now.
Why does every thread on RTR end up as speculation about the Eldrazi invading the plane?
Pauper: UR some horrible homebrew izzet deck
I don't understand that either. What does make sense though is that these merfolk on RAV look to be of the same type that the plane of Shandalar is sporting. My theory is that Shandalar is drifting through the multiverse and at some point long ago (but obviously after Dissension) Shandalar made a very close pass to the city of guilds. It would explain the existence of merfolk on RAV.
Now where do the Eldrazi come in the play? Shandalar's next stop is Zendikar. Bam. 2 cents given.
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Vedalken don't really strike me as an immortal race. I cant see the Parun still being alive.
Reckless Waif; It's the red Delver of Secrets.
Pretty sure he meant the merfolk lady. We don't have much info on her yet, but I'm sure we'll get it if merfolk are as important as we've been told.
No, I was talking about the Simic parun, Simic.
But agreed on we probably getting info on the merfolk guildmaster.
Pauper: UR some horrible homebrew izzet deck
In fairness, Simic was only his last name. It's also been implied from a few word of god sources that PIECES of him might still be around.... as disturbing as that is to consider.
Considering Svogthir, that wouldn't be a surprise.
I'm not sure if I'd heard this before or not, but it makes me all tingly inside.
Speaking of Paruns I wonder why they consider Szadek dead if he was still a ghost when we left Rav. I'm fairly certain ghosts don't just time out after a while.
Well alot can change since we last left, with Ravnica no longer isolated fro mthe rest of the multiverse, ghosts can once again leave the plane, it's possible that Kos suceeded in his mission, it is also possible that Szadek was just deposed by the new guildleader, and is still lurking in the shadows)
I just think Creative didn't want a vampire ghost as the Dimir leader (since that would be pretty close to the Orzhov). Though i think there's some cool visuals with having a mist-like Szadek, who would be the ultimate expression of stealth.
Killing major characters off screen is not beyond Creative.
It's better than having someone like Wintermute kill them off though.
That would be an impressive feat given we aren't getting novels anymore.