- Sagas are back
- The Underworld seem to have also nice looking parts (Ilysia, apparently play on Elysian Fields)
- there seem to be non-feral minotaurs (the Skophos polis, Warden of the Chained, Dreamshaper Shaman), unlike the Rageblood horde, branching into green.
- Elspeth bears the moniker "Sun's Nemesis"
- an "escape" mechanic allowing things to be cast from graveyard for the price of exiling other cards from graveyard (Elspeth has it as well)
- Phenax used to be a mortal, who escaped the Underworld
- Ashiok is back (as rather expected)
- there seems to be a new god or something (the Furious Rise card "Klethys set out to mend the destiny of Theros, her fury guiding every stitch." with a giant figure above the land.
Godsend is now looking pretty Xengos looking with the flame looking horns
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“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
The frieze on Elspeth's card shows the planeswalker hitting Heliod (on the right) in the same fashion as she did with Xenagos (on the left)...
Is it part of the previous storyline and I missed it or is it new?
I guess the one yet to come, as her moniker would suggest.
And I love that even her statue depicts the pierced crack in her armor where Heliod originally struck her.
Though, the weapon Elspeth used to kill Xenago shouldn't be the same as the one she used to kill Heliod, I'd think. Xenago was killed by Godsend, the one struck Heliod appear to be a modified version, perhaps a gift from Erebos/Phenax? Didn't Ashiok want to know the fear of a god? I can imagine all that dread Heliod would have when a mortal take vengeance on him. (Here I thought Ashiok would stay on the Meditation Realm to suck on Bolas's eternal torment)
Well, they look like they're going to manage to make this set every bit as boring mechanically as the original Theros was.
Storyline-wise, I'd be surprised if Elspeth doesn't get "free" by the end of it and return to her old planeswalking ways. One thing I'm curious about is whether we will see Gideon in Ilysia or not.
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She was made of November rain
Pleasure and pain
Scorpion stings
Pretty things
and the flames of Phoenix wings
—Michelle Schaper
Well, saw someone talking about how in the background of the Elspeth's art (Masterpiece) there are 2 murals: The one in the left depict Elspeth stabing Xenagos with the old Godsend. The one in the right side of Elspeth statue depict Elspeth "killing" Heliod with what looks to be the new form of Godsend (the same wealpon the statue have). This with the name could sugest that she will almost kill Heliod or indeed kill hin.
With this it could be likely that the next time we go to Theros they do a new White god, and if Gideon's soul went to theros underworld it would be possible for hin to become the new White god (god of sun or god of justice).
I guess we'll never know what Dack was after when he went to the underworld. Unless they make the whole Elspeth escaping storyline before the events of WAR but it wouldn't work with Ajani coming to save her after the events of WAR.
I know it might be a little messed up but i would like a 2 part story, the first would be in the past which will feature Dack and Elspeths escape.
The second part would be the current timeline with Ajani finding out that Elspeth has escaped and is preparing to fight heliod plus the gideon stuff.
Dack Fayden was specifically going to the underworld to confront Ashiok. As Ashiok was causing the citizens of Theros, specifically mages, to sleepwalk and sleepcast. That the reason Ashiok was doing this was to harvest large swaths of nightmares from people. He already had his prize, the gauntlet.
It was specifically cancelled on its 17th issue in the 'Theros' arc, and this had been back in 2014. To add more of an oddity of the cancellation, IDW are the ones who were making the Dack Fayden comics. The same one as the 'Chandra' 4-parter which has had a string of strange delays ever since the first comic had an interesting show of Chandra having mental trouble because of the events of WAR and this was before the rumor season for WAR was done. Also that the follow up for that comic series which was 'Chandra: Trials of Alara' was also cancelled. To add to this, a year later in 2015 there was the wizards article which confirmed that the last action with Dack was him traveling to the portal.
As why would they not want a spinoff comic to continue its Theros story when it involves the underworld? And why would they not want a spinoff comic of Chandra and Jace going through Alara together?
To further dive down the rabbit hole, the Weisman novel doesn't build up Theros. Theros is primarily used for only Gideon's funeral. Also of Ajani speaking of Elspeth once in mourning.
That what I am getting is it can't be that the set takes place before WAR. That the only way it does is that Greg Weisman either didn't include that on accident or that it was on purpose based on a demand by someone at wizards to not include it.
I guess we'll never know what Dack was after when he went to the underworld. Unless they make the whole Elspeth escaping storyline before the events of WAR but it wouldn't work with Ajani coming to save her after the events of WAR.
I know it might be a little messed up but i would like a 2 part story, the first would be in the past which will feature Dack and Elspeths escape.
The second part would be the current timeline with Ajani finding out that Elspeth has escaped and is preparing to fight heliod plus the gideon stuff.
Dack Fayden was specifically going to the underworld to confront Ashiok. As Ashiok was causing the citizens of Theros, specifically mages, to sleepwalk and sleepcast. That the reason Ashiok was doing this was to harvest large swaths of nightmares from people. He already had his prize, the gauntlet.
It was specifically cancelled on its 17th issue in the 'Theros' arc, and this had been back in 2014. To add more of an oddity of the cancellation, IDW are the ones who were making the Dack Fayden comics. The same one as the 'Chandra' 4-parter which has had a string of strange delays ever since the first comic had an interesting show of Chandra having mental trouble because of the events of WAR and this was before the rumor season for WAR was done. Also that the follow up for that comic series which was 'Chandra: Trials of Alara' was also cancelled. To add to this, a year later in 2015 there was the wizards article which confirmed that the last action with Dack was him traveling to the portal.
As why would they not want a spinoff comic to continue its Theros story when it involves the underworld? And why would they not want a spinoff comic of Chandra and Jace going through Alara together?
To further dive down the rabbit hole, the Weisman novel doesn't build up Theros. Theros is primarily used for only Gideon's funeral. Also of Ajani speaking of Elspeth once in mourning.
That what I am getting is it can't be that the set takes place before WAR. That the only way it does is that Greg Weisman either didn't include that on accident or that it was on purpose based on a demand by someone at wizards to not include it.
We got the Wanderer showng off a golden mask in Forsaken which dose hint at Theros 2 being set before War.
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“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Right that scene with the wanderer. Which could be Elspeth if the hints that Theros is set in the past, but that would also mean Ikoria is set in the past if the cyberpunk-anime Survery for a Japanese setting. As it would also explain Elspeth's new weapon and her new getup. And that the only reason she wears a returned's mask is like how Zorro wears a domino mask, as if she did escape she wouldn't need a mask and it would explain The Wanderer's skin being unlike a returned's.
And if it is in the past, that also means Ravos, Soultender needs to make either a story or card appearance in Theros as he is the one who helped Dack esacpe the underworld. Dack might play a role in an unannounced novel, doubtful of having an actual standard card.
To add to this, if Sarkhan knows The Wanderer, that means he also has to have a part to play in either Theros or Ikoria.
But there is one aspect that still can't be easily explained: The Wanderer's ability to planeswalk.
Specifically the fact that she has to focus on the plane she is on to stay there, that losing focus means she planeswalks, however she never tires from it. Which is not a quality of Elspeth's ability to planeswalk unless it was also modified on either Theros 2.0 or Ikoria.
Right that scene with the wanderer. Which could be Elspeth if the hints that Theros is set in the past, but that would also mean Ikoria is set in the past if the cyberpunk-anime Survery for a Japanese setting. As it would also explain Elspeth's new weapon and her new getup. And that the only reason she wears a returned's mask is like how Zorro wears a domino mask, as if she did escape she wouldn't need a mask and it would explain The Wanderer's skin being unlike a returned's.
Nothing has pointed to Ikoria and Thero being linked. And all we know about Ikoira (as far as I know) is that its monster theme and the cyberpunk-anime is all fan speculation.
Quote from »
And if it is in the past, that also means Ravos, Soultender needs to make either a story or card appearance in Theros as he is the one who helped Dack esacpe the underworld. Dack might play a role in an unannounced novel, doubtful of having an actual standard card.
Why? Generally we get 3 walkers a set and if its in the past we got Dack already there. It might also explain why he wasn't in War originally since (like Garruk, Yangling and the Kenriths) they knew he'd be in an up coming set. Dacks death was also something figured after the set had been finished by Weisman and the creative team so until that point he wasn't gonna be in War.
Private Mod Note
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“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
So now we got the office art we can see Godsend? is looking pretty corrupted. Wonder if its to her escape, Erabos/Phenex influence or maybe even Ashiok since it seems like they are doing something.
EDIT: I put this else were but I'll say it here I think we will get a new RG weaver god who was also trapped in the underworld.
“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
So now we got the office art we can see Godsend? is looking pretty corrupted. Wonder if its to her escape, Erabos/Phenex influence or maybe even Ashiok since it seems like they are doing something.
EDIT: I put this else were but I'll say it here I think we will get a new RG weaver god who was also trapped in the underworld.
The mechanic pages pretty much comfirmed our new RG god Klothys god of destiny.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
I still don't get how the underworld is only now 'leaking'. Unless this is a soft-retcon.
Simple, things are retuning fully instead of the return with no soul or memories and/or more gates to the underworld are opening.
EDIT: Is it just me or does Ashiok walker deck art look like they have Heliods crown and sitting in a throne? O.o
I think its more column B, than A, as people have escaped without masks before in Theros.
No? The whole point is being a return was the only way to escape before.
As for the corwn, it does looks similar to Heliod's.
I'm wondering if Elspeth works for/tricked by Ashiok into killing Heliod (or its something they take advantage of after). Her spear looks like Ashioks horns and has been seen smoking at point similar to Ashioks magic.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
I still don't get how the underworld is only now 'leaking'. Unless this is a soft-retcon.
Simple, things are retuning fully instead of the return with no soul or memories and/or more gates to the underworld are opening.
EDIT: Is it just me or does Ashiok walker deck art look like they have Heliods crown and sitting in a throne? O.o
I think its more column B, than A, as people have escaped without masks before in Theros.
No? The whole point is being a return was the only way to escape before.
As for the corwn, it does looks similar to Heliod's.
I'm wondering if Elspeth works for/tricked by Ashiok into killing Heliod (or its something they take advantage of after). Her spear looks like Ashioks horns and has been seen smoking at point similar to Ashioks magic.
The whole underworld leaking concept is unnecessary and overstated for the purpose of justifying a mechanic, which I find silly. It’s always been a theme to “escape from the underworld” or have thing play or cheat death in Greek myth.
Anyway, I am more interested in our promo constellation art of Thassa depicting her with the Bident once again. Purphoros or devotion must have granted her another one. Makes sense but I wonder which it was
https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/the-rumor-mill/814861-thb-theros-beyond-death-leaks
Some flavor findings:
- Sagas are back
- The Underworld seem to have also nice looking parts (Ilysia, apparently play on Elysian Fields)
- there seem to be non-feral minotaurs (the Skophos polis, Warden of the Chained, Dreamshaper Shaman), unlike the Rageblood horde, branching into green.
- Elspeth bears the moniker "Sun's Nemesis"
- an "escape" mechanic allowing things to be cast from graveyard for the price of exiling other cards from graveyard (Elspeth has it as well)
- Phenax used to be a mortal, who escaped the Underworld
- Ashiok is back (as rather expected)
- there seems to be a new god or something (the Furious Rise card "Klethys set out to mend the destiny of Theros, her fury guiding every stitch." with a giant figure above the land.
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
Is it part of the previous storyline and I missed it or is it new?
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
I guess the one yet to come, as her moniker would suggest.
And I love that even her statue depicts the pierced crack in her armor where Heliod originally struck her.
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
Though, the weapon Elspeth used to kill Xenago shouldn't be the same as the one she used to kill Heliod, I'd think. Xenago was killed by Godsend, the one struck Heliod appear to be a modified version, perhaps a gift from Erebos/Phenax? Didn't Ashiok want to know the fear of a god? I can imagine all that dread Heliod would have when a mortal take vengeance on him. (Here I thought Ashiok would stay on the Meditation Realm to suck on Bolas's eternal torment)
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
Storyline-wise, I'd be surprised if Elspeth doesn't get "free" by the end of it and return to her old planeswalking ways. One thing I'm curious about is whether we will see Gideon in Ilysia or not.
Pleasure and pain
Scorpion stings
Pretty things
and the flames of Phoenix wings
—Michelle Schaper
With this it could be likely that the next time we go to Theros they do a new White god, and if Gideon's soul went to theros underworld it would be possible for hin to become the new White god (god of sun or god of justice).
I know it might be a little messed up but i would like a 2 part story, the first would be in the past which will feature Dack and Elspeths escape.
The second part would be the current timeline with Ajani finding out that Elspeth has escaped and is preparing to fight heliod plus the gideon stuff.
It was specifically cancelled on its 17th issue in the 'Theros' arc, and this had been back in 2014. To add more of an oddity of the cancellation, IDW are the ones who were making the Dack Fayden comics. The same one as the 'Chandra' 4-parter which has had a string of strange delays ever since the first comic had an interesting show of Chandra having mental trouble because of the events of WAR and this was before the rumor season for WAR was done. Also that the follow up for that comic series which was 'Chandra: Trials of Alara' was also cancelled. To add to this, a year later in 2015 there was the wizards article which confirmed that the last action with Dack was him traveling to the portal.
As why would they not want a spinoff comic to continue its Theros story when it involves the underworld? And why would they not want a spinoff comic of Chandra and Jace going through Alara together?
To further dive down the rabbit hole, the Weisman novel doesn't build up Theros. Theros is primarily used for only Gideon's funeral. Also of Ajani speaking of Elspeth once in mourning.
That what I am getting is it can't be that the set takes place before WAR. That the only way it does is that Greg Weisman either didn't include that on accident or that it was on purpose based on a demand by someone at wizards to not include it.
We got the Wanderer showng off a golden mask in Forsaken which dose hint at Theros 2 being set before War.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
And if it is in the past, that also means Ravos, Soultender needs to make either a story or card appearance in Theros as he is the one who helped Dack esacpe the underworld. Dack might play a role in an unannounced novel, doubtful of having an actual standard card.
To add to this, if Sarkhan knows The Wanderer, that means he also has to have a part to play in either Theros or Ikoria.
But there is one aspect that still can't be easily explained: The Wanderer's ability to planeswalk.
Specifically the fact that she has to focus on the plane she is on to stay there, that losing focus means she planeswalks, however she never tires from it. Which is not a quality of Elspeth's ability to planeswalk unless it was also modified on either Theros 2.0 or Ikoria.
Nothing has pointed to Ikoria and Thero being linked. And all we know about Ikoira (as far as I know) is that its monster theme and the cyberpunk-anime is all fan speculation.
Why? Generally we get 3 walkers a set and if its in the past we got Dack already there. It might also explain why he wasn't in War originally since (like Garruk, Yangling and the Kenriths) they knew he'd be in an up coming set. Dacks death was also something figured after the set had been finished by Weisman and the creative team so until that point he wasn't gonna be in War.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
EDIT: I put this else were but I'll say it here I think we will get a new RG weaver god who was also trapped in the underworld.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
https://twitter.com/wizards_magic/status/1204823217195671552
Which I don't know how much lore significance it has. As it shows Elspeth's reflection becoming Ashiok.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Simple, things are retuning fully instead of the return with no soul or memories and/or more gates to the underworld are opening.
EDIT: Is it just me or does Ashiok walker deck art look like they have Heliods crown and sitting in a throne? O.o
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
As for the corwn, it does looks similar to Heliod's.
No? The whole point is being a return was the only way to escape before.
I'm wondering if Elspeth works for/tricked by Ashiok into killing Heliod (or its something they take advantage of after). Her spear looks like Ashioks horns and has been seen smoking at point similar to Ashioks magic.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Anyway, I am more interested in our promo constellation art of Thassa depicting her with the Bident once again. Purphoros or devotion must have granted her another one. Makes sense but I wonder which it was
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||